Chrono Miner V.S War Miner

[YuriAndroklov]

What do you think about both miners,are they made equally? Why?
I have a hard time thinking about these because I feel that War Miner is unfair but my brother yuri gagarin said that Chrono Miner has some good points that I did'nt notice.:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

[cubanbom6]

I like the Chrono Miner because it gets its money quicker than the war miner because of its chrono and also if you have an ore purifier you would get more money with the chrono miner.

[ChopBam]

But the War Miner gets a larger load as well as that gun on top.

[YuriAndroklov]

I think the war miner can help you earn more money than chrono miner and can be use for battle. So I feel that EA Games should upgrade chrono miner.:looklive:

[Fleetatks]

war miner=for people who want to kill their enemy rather then try to run away. for people who like big loads but wait an extra couple seconds for it to get better units.

chrono miner=for people that know that sometimes it's better to run and fight another day then to die fighting. for people who like faster, smaller loads to produce more units.

[Teron]

And Slave Miners vs. Britain=For masochists who like having no money ;)

[truefeel]

in terms of mining ore, they are equal.

in terms of fodder, war miner is better, cause it can rape opponents infantry fodder in seconds and is also a good anti-TD, deso unit.

[YuriAndroklov]

Do you think that any country miners need some editing? like changing the price,sight.... whatever.:hmm::hmm::hmm::hmm::hmm::hmm::hmm::hmm:

[Teron]

Slave Miners getting a slight HP decrease would probably be welcomed by most players. Apart from Yuri ones, of course, but as long as someone doesn't release an official patch turning their HP to 1 and armour type to cardboard, I'm fine with a slight HP decrease ^^

[YuriGagarin]

The elite war miner has a cannon mounted on top, very powerful. But it is hard to get them to elite though.:chin:

[YuriAndroklov]

I've I'm going to upgrade both miner, i will make chrono miner have stealth and chrono ability. I'll make it able to float on water because when it attack something,something may call others to attack it so when it is going to die we can let it hide in hide in water temporary before navys or sky units attack it. they will be $2000.:chin::chin::chin:

[Teron]

Stealth would be practically useless. From what I can recall of past conversations on adding stealth to miners, the harvesting action uncloaks a miner no matter what, so they'd still be visible while gathering ore.

[YuriGagarin]

the harvesting action uncloaks a miner no matter what, so they'd still be visible while gathering ore.

No, that's not true, I put stealth on the war miners in ra2, they are still cloaked when harvesting, I personally even saw the ore becoming smaller and smaller when the enemy's war miner were harvesting(note that I can't see the enemy's war miners), but they do show up when attacking you though.

[YuriAndroklov]

No, that's not true, I put stealth on the war miners in ra2, they are still cloaked when harvesting, I personally even saw the ore becoming smaller and smaller when the enemy's war miner were harvesting(note that I can't see the enemy's war miners), but they do show up when attacking you though.


i saw the war miners in my brother yuri gagarin's mod are still stealth when digging ore. that's why i dare to say that on net.:color4: :color3: :color2: :color1:

[truefeel]

The elite war miner has a cannon mounted on top, very powerful. But it is hard to get them to elite though.:chin:

that weapon sucks. the rookie weapon is IMO better cause it's highly effective vs infantry. the only thing that I might want an elite war miner is that it's armour is enormous.

[YuriGagarin]

that weapon sucks.

It shreds my Miners to pieces....:dead:

[YuriAndroklov]

What are you two doing? truefeel, elite war miners are useful on soviets level4.yurigagarin,even computers send something to defence their miner sometimes, and i think most players will do something when their miners are attack.`:o:o:o

[truefeel]

and how the hell got that miner there ?? I would had killed it miles away from my miners.
1 TD= GG elite miner. TD is more effective vs an elite miner then a rookie miner. you should use your miner for mining only normally anyway, unless you're about to loose.

[Fleetatks]

what's a td?

[truefeel]

terror drone

[cubanbom6]

:lol: I thought you were talking about a tank destroyer:lol:

[IgmaanDigneet]

IIRC the war miner brings in twice as much as the chrono miner, the chrono miner only makes one trip for each two trips the war miner makes. So in theory they are balanced since they will both make 1000 in two trips.

But if the ore is very closeby the chrono advantage is practically negated and the soviets will probably have a slight advantage.

[YuriAndroklov]

I feel rocketeers are good for protecting miners too. because computers normally won't protect their miners with sky defences,and they aways send annoying jets to destroy our miners.

[YuriGagarin]

I would protect my miners with mags and gatts and lashers.
I would protect them with rhinos and flaks.
I would protect them with tnkds and rockies or a ggi and gi BF.

[truefeel]

IIRC the war miner brings in twice as much as the chrono miner, the chrono miner only makes one trip for each two trips the war miner makes. So in theory they are balanced since they will both make 1000 in two trips.

But if the ore is very closeby the chrono advantage is practically negated and the soviets will probably have a slight advantage.


I don't really know if that's true. but if it is true that war miner is in slightly advantage when close to the ore and ore refinery, that advantage will break when the ore is futher away and even turn into disadvantage. I do you know you need less ore refinery's for soviet then for allied. you only need one ore refinery for 3-4 war miners, while you need one ore refinery for 2-3 chrono miners.

elite war miners are useful on soviets level4

1. the highest level you can get is only 3, not 4.

2. I didn't say they were unusefull; I only said that the weapon sucks. elite miners are great fodder units.

[YuriAndroklov]

1. the highest level you can get is only 3, not 4.
I mean soviets mission 4.

[YuriRuler90]

that weapon sucks. the rookie weapon is IMO better cause it's highly effective vs infantry. the only thing that I might want an elite war miner is that it's armour is enormous.


Hell yes. The War Miner when Elite has the weapon and the armor to take on 2-3 Rhino tanks for a short time.

[YuriAndroklov]

Ya! elite war miners are useful in soviets missions because computers don't often defence their miners in mission.:)

[truefeel]

what I'm talking about is online-play, which requires far more experience then the easy-played missions. One elite war miner doesn't makes the difference and, that's th point where you are wrong, yuriruler, it still get's killed by 3 rhino's. the elite war miner fires those shells quite fast, but the shells don't do that much damage + it looses it's effectiveness vs infantry AND terror drones (normally, a TD would die in one shot from a rookie war miner; now the war miner needs 2-3 shots to kill it; enough time to drone that miner then), which the war miner's weapon was designed for in the first place. so it becomes a relatively good anti-tank unit. the problem is that you encounter elite war miners very rarely and they only become a threat when they are in a group.

[YuriRuler90]

One elite war miner doesn't makes the difference and, that's th point where you are wrong, yuriruler, it still get's killed by 3 rhino's

That's not the point. That is not what it is made for. It's gun is to disuade people from carelessly attacking it, and it can defend itself from three Rhinoes while backup arrives, even killing at LEAST one Rhino in the process.

[truefeel]

That's not the point. That is not what it is made for. It's gun is to disuade people from carelessly attacking it, and it can defend itself from three Rhinoes while backup arrives, even killing at LEAST one Rhino in the process.

that depends on how good your tank control is. if you have a very good tank control, no rhino's will die.

nobody with real online experience will be carelessly. heck, I even wouldn't attack rookie war miners when I know that backup is too close and I could loose more then I make up with killing miners.

the point here is that the war miner changes and get's more vulnerability's then it gains (vulnerable now to terror drones+infantry > better vs tanks).

[Statalyzer]

But if the ore is very closeby the chrono advantage is practically negated and the soviets will probably have a slight advantage.

Why is that? The Allied miner would still take two trips for every one trip the Soviet miner takes.

[IgmaanDigneet]

Well if the ore is very closeby then the miners wont have to move very far so in practise the allied miners will often make two trips for one payload as well. And since the distance traveled is so short, two trips instead of one won't make as much of a difference in contrary to a situation where the ore is very far from the refinery. it depends on how many miners you have though since if there's already a miner dumping ore the next one can't chrono the way back.

[YuriAndroklov]

I still don't get what I want to know. Please tell me which miner is better than which or maybe they are all the same equal.:chin::chin::chin:

[truefeel]

I already said they are more or less the same in mining. in terms of surviving, the chrono miner has a bigger chance, cause it can just chrono away to an ore refinery. in terms of fodder, the war miner is better, cause it's ghood armour and the anti-infantry (so anti-fodder) weapon makes it a very good unit for a desperate attack.

[Statalyzer]

Well if the ore is very closeby then the miners wont have to move very far

But the Soviets will still traverse the distance twice. The math is the same no matter what.

[YuriAndroklov]

On all that I see in my thread.:chin:
More people praises Chrono Miner. 1st:wave::wave::wave::wave::wave::wave::wave::wave::wave::wave:
Quite alot of people praises War Miner. 2nd:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Less people praises Slave Miner. 3rd:(




Any questions?:hmm:

[IgmaanDigneet]

But the Soviets will still traverse the distance twice. The math is the same no matter what.
Well ofcourse the math is the same but if you have to wait 1 second or 2 seconds to get money it doesn't make much of a difference but if you have to wait say 1 minute instead of 2 it willl make a huge difference. See what I'm getting at?

And besides that the allied miner will often make a return trip as well since the chance that the refinery will already be "full" is much larger if the ore is closeby (as in a miner is already dumping ore there). Again that depends on how many miners you have.

IMO the slave miner is the best of all; snipers are their only weakness, it doesn't need a refinery since it can go anywhere by itself to get ore and it's armour is insane.

[Teron]

Slave Miners aren't any worse than their Allied and Soviet counterparts, apart from being vulnerable to anti-infantry stuff. But their insane toughness and drone immunity compensate very well for that deficiency.

EDIT: And, of course, they are slow to move.

[truefeel]

no, actually, slave miners are the best miners (HUGE ARMOUR+mounted gun+ extra infantry (slaves) fodder). The reason why I didn't spoke about them is that I never play as yuri and I leave it out.

but yes, slave miner is the best one. in almost all terms (the only disadvantage it has over the other miners is that it can't run away easily, although the free slave fodder makes up for a part).

the anti-infantry units is not that a huge disadvantage (even not if you consider that you would need to be at radar tech to get anti-infantry and that by then one gatt is enough to defend against anti-infantry). and even if the slaves get killed, within 5 seconds, you have new ones.

[IgmaanDigneet]

.
but yes, slave miner is the best one. in almost all terms (the only disadvantage it has over the other miners is that it can't run away easily, although the free slave fodder makes up for a part).


That and the insane armour allows for easy reinforcing by the yuri player since it won't die quickly like the other two will when cornered (provided that the chrono miner can't escape ofcourse).

[Piscinex]

In theory War and Chrono Miners are exactly equal; in practice War Miners are much better at gathering money. Chrono Miners need more Refineries or they won't always teleport back to dump the Ore, they'll move at least some of the way (and you can't quite eliminate this behaviour no matter how high the ratio of Refineries to Miners is). They also like to teleport to Refineries on the opposite side of the map, which is hilariously inefficient.

However they also have a couple of benefits, like being able to teleport away from danger or quickly teleport to a new Ore field if it ever becomes necessary. In game situations these advantages stop the War Miner really being overly superior.

[Statalyzer]

Well ofcourse the math is the same but if you have to wait 1 second or 2 seconds to get money it doesn't make much of a difference but if you have to wait say 1 minute instead of 2 it willl make a huge difference. See what I'm getting at?

It doesn't make a huge difference. If you wait 1 second instead of 2, you'll make 2 trips while he makes 1 trip, and so you each gather the same amount of money per time. If you wait 1 minute instead of 2, you'll make 2 trips while he makes 1 trip, and so you each gather the same amount of money per time.

The only problem is that, as Pisc mentioned, the Chrono Miner won't always shift back at the instant it stops gathering ore.

[yurihomer]

Well if the ore is very closeby then the miners wont have to move very far so in practise the allied miners will often make two trips for one payload as well. And since the distance traveled is so short, two trips instead of one won't make as much of a difference in contrary to a situation where the ore is very far from the refinery. it depends on how many miners you have though since if there's already a miner dumping ore the next one can't chrono the way back.
not really, because chrono miner goes to the ore, and come chrono back say the distance from the refinery to the ore is 10 m, and then it drive back to ore, and chrono back (it drive another 10 m), and from these 2 loads of ore, it makes let us say 50$. war miner drive to the ore (10 m) and drive back (10 m) in total its 20 m same as chrono miner and it makes 50$ so i guess they are the same.

[truefeel]

However they also have a couple of benefits, like being able to teleport away from danger or quickly teleport to a new Ore field if it ever becomes necessary. In game situations these advantages stop the War Miner really being overly superior.

that's also in theory. in practice, chrono miners will not chrono away inmediately b/c of online lag, which still gives time to kill them or atleast damage them heavily, so they go slower for a while.

[Teron]

not really, because chrono miner goes to the ore, and come chrono back say the distance from the refinery to the ore is 10 m, and then it drive back to ore, and chrono back (it drive another 10 m), and from these 2 loads of ore, it makes let us say 50$. war miner drive to the ore (10 m) and drive back (10 m) in total its 20 m same as chrono miner and it makes 50$ so i guess they are the same.

But then there's the question that the Chrono Miner does two dump animations and whatnot...

[IgmaanDigneet]

not really, because chrono miner goes to the ore, and come chrono back say the distance from the refinery to the ore is 10 m, and then it drive back to ore, and chrono back (it drive another 10 m), and from these 2 loads of ore, it makes let us say 50$. war miner drive to the ore (10 m) and drive back (10 m) in total its 20 m same as chrono miner and it makes 50$ so i guess they are the same.
Apparantly reading is quite hard. I never said the math would change. :rolleyes:

[Statalyzer]

And the math never changing means they'll both gather the same amount of ore in the same amount of time, with no lag and if the Allied miners shift back right away.

[IgmaanDigneet]

And the math never changing means they'll both gather the same amount of ore in the same amount of time, with no lag and if the Allied miners shift back right away.

Exactly, IF the miners shift back right away, which they don't unless you have perfect micro.

What I'm trying to say is that the soviet miner delivers 100% of the time on it's advantage (twice as much capacity, thick armor, gun).

The chrono miner does too in theory but in practise they often drive at least a part of the way back if not the whole way back if the ore is closeby and/or another miner is blocking it. So they're really not as equal as you might think.

EDIT: lol totally missed your post there piscinex.

[YuriAndroklov]

All correct! But you need to control chrono miner often to use it skillfully.:thought:

[truefeel]

most of the time you CAN'T control miners; simply b/c you have other things on your mind. just have 1 refinery for each 2 chrono miners. the only thing you can do is redirecting your miners from time to time to the nearest ore.

[YuriAndroklov]

most of the time you CAN'T control miners; simply b/c you have other things on your mind. just have 1 refinery for each 2 chrono miners. the only thing you can do is redirecting your miners from time to time to the nearest ore. For blocking terror drones and all that others, not just digging gold.:o

[truefeel]

chrono miners can't stop terror drones, even not with microing. you need other units for that.

[YuriAndroklov]

chrono miners can't stop terror drones, even not with microing. you need other units for that.
Just chrono away! I just mean preventing getting kill by terror drones.:looklive:

[truefeel]

lol, that's no microing. that's just saving your chrono miner. that trick doesn't require any micro.

[GunsnArmor]

War Miners can carry more and have a defencive turret, but aren't as fast as the Chrono Miner because of the chrono ability, witch is bad because if it gets attacked by a dozen tanks it can't retreat to base fast enough.

So I would say they are equal.

[truefeel]

so ?? if I can't kill the first miner, I will kill the other. and chronoing away means that chrono miner isn't mining -> no credits anymore. if I can't kill your first chrono miner, I will try to kill your second one and so on. your chrono miners will be killed without defence, only it's a bit harder to do then with war miners. If your enemy can make it with 2-3 tanks the ore field were your ore miners are mining and you can't defend them in time, then that's bad.

[yurihomer]

i think they are the same. because think of this way, say chrono miner gives u 1000 in 1 min, and soviet war miner gives u 2000 in 2 mins, at the start, u will be getting 1000 every min and be able to get more structures and units, unlike soviet, if u are out of the initial cash, u have to wait for 2 mins. allies can just wait for 1 min.

[truefeel]

the prob is, like piscinex, me and stat already said, is that chrono miners don't always chrono back inmediately when they are fully loaded. most of the time, the length they drive varies from a bit to the completely course from ore field to refinery. that makes the war miner in practice better.

in short: chrono miners bring in quicker money then war miners, but half less then war miners. normally, that would mean that chrono miners have to be double as quick then war miners. in theory, it is: it only needs to make 1 trip cause the other one, it just chrono back. in practice, it makes that 1 trip + in many cases, it makes pieces of or even a complete trip.

[Statalyzer]

yurihomer is right, that's actually an Allied advantage is that you less often have to send a miner back home half-full. If you each go low cash at the same time, you'll get that half-built tank finished before he does.

But that's negated by the Soviet advantage of the Chrono Miner taking pieces of extra trips. And since those extra trips happen more often than the low-cash situation being just right, there is a slight overall Soviet advantage in gathering ore.

But I think that's made up for by a slight Allied advantage in being hard to kill.

[truefeel]

not really. chrono miners don't chrono miners don't chrono back inmediately back on command b/c of online lag, giving me the chance to finish the off.

[Statalyzer]

Yes, but they still might chrono back on time, especially since I'm not going to try and wait until they are in red health to save them.

They at least have a chance to survive when about to be attacked and no other units you have can save them. War Miners don't have that chance at all. So I think overall, neither side has a better miner than the other.

[truefeel]

yes, that's true.

[Uufje]

I like the Chrono Miner because the Chrono Miner can easily teleport back to the refinery... the driver of the War Miner needs a map... :lol:
:emo: Uufje

[truefeel]

but the war miner owns then again in terms of ore gattering and fodder.

[YuriAndroklov]

My brother make a mod that make chrono miners chrono anywhere they want and make war miners stealth. He set the price for $1500.Unfair right?When I use allied, the chrono miners dig gold so fast that no matter how fast I build things, I still won't bankrupt.I think he should at least make it $2500 for one.:mad:

[yurihomer]

i think different miners has its own advantage, say u are allies, u build capture a oil derrick on an island and build a refinery near it to gather the ore on that island. when u run out of ore on main island, u can simply chrono all ur exsit miners to that island. no cost for transport. different miners has different advantage. say u get 5 tanks chasing ur war miner, with full load of ore, and they killed it. u lose the ore and the money, but if u got chrono miner, u can teleport back and dump whatever u got.

[truefeel]

the same thing can happen with the chrono miner though. say that they chrono back to the refinery; I would just go to the refinery and kill the chrono miner there.

[YuriAndroklov]

If I'm right, Chrono Miner will be the best miner if a person knows how to use it.:chin:

[truefeel]

you can't micro them the whole game; if you do that, you will loose concentration on everything else and you loose the game.

[Piscinex]

Double post.

[Piscinex]

The problem with Chronoshifting Miners back to the Refinery is that people get lazy with it. If you have 3 War Miners with a bunch of tanks steaming towards them you run them all back straight away. If 3 Chrono Miners are in the same situation people try to Chronoshift them back one by one, which often doesn't work. If you treat Chrono Miners like they're in as much danger as War Miners (which they usually are) and use Chronoshifting only to save ones who aren't going to retreat in time then they really do become very difficult to kill (you lose more mining time this way, but the cost of replacing a Miner or trying to get by without one is usually higher anyway).

[IgmaanDigneet]

Simply put the war miner requires little to no effort to it's advantages while the chrono miner needs more extensive micro in order for it to maintain it's advantage. IMO this makes the war miner the better miner of the two since it allows me to focus more on managing my units and attacking.

[YuriGagarin]

Thanks to westwood for making two such balaced miners, not the slave miner, though. Too powerful sometimes and too lousy sometimes. It is immune to terror drones, and can get ore pretty fast. but when a sniper or virus or desolator(note that desolator radbeam range is farther than the gun on the miner's head) comes along. the yuri goes bankrupt.:D :rofl:

[IgmaanDigneet]

The slave miner mostly gets slowed down not stopped since it just respawns workers and if it's in any real trouble it's armor usually alows it to escape. Often it will be able to stay in place while reinforcements are on the way, so it will be able to continue mining the very second after the attack is over.


but when a sniper or virus or desolator(note that desolator radbeam range is farther than the gun on the miner's head) comes along. the yuri goes bankrupt
Only a bad yuri player would allow himself to go bankrupt because of snipers, granted they can be a nuisance but they can also be easily countered by gatts or virus. The virus will kill the deso easily too.

[YuriGagarin]

Only a bad yuri player would allow himself to go bankrupt because of snipers, granted they can be a nuisance but they can also be easily countered by gatts or virus. The virus will kill the deso easily too.

Sometimes I would just undeploy the miner and rush towards the sniper and shoot him of with the turret on the slave miner's head. But that only works on noobs, because they would normal put some tanks beside the sniper to protect it.

[yurihomer]

Sometimes I would just undeploy the miner and rush towards the sniper and shoot him of with the turret on the slave miner's head. But that only works on noobs, because they would normal put some tanks beside the sniper to protect it.
haha, so true, are u really from china?:D

[YuriAndroklov]

haha, so true, are u really from china?:D

No! I and my brother YuriGagarin are from Singapore, But we come to china to stay and we already stay for 2-3 Years.:ashamed::zip:

[yurihomer]

wow, cool, i am chinese though, now in canada

[truefeel]

Thanks to westwood for making two such balaced miners, not the slave miner, though. Too powerful sometimes and too lousy sometimes. It is immune to terror drones, and can get ore pretty fast. but when a sniper or virus or desolator(note that desolator radbeam range is farther than the gun on the miner's head) comes along. the yuri goes bankrupt.:D :rofl:

and also thx to westwood for making the game so unbalanced, unlike those 2 miners.

[YuriAndroklov]

and also thx to westwood for making the game so unbalanced, unlike those 2 miners.
Yes Yuri is not just easy to use for noobies, but also good when expert use it. What else,they make lest Buildings,Fodders and Tanks.:mad:

[Statalyzer]

I think Yuri is actually harder to use for noobies. He's got so much good stuff it's easy to go bankrupt with a horribly-mixed force and way too many defenses if you don't know what you are doing.

I saw this on Bay of Pigs a couple of days ago. This guy would put up some defense to stop every small hit-and-run anywhere, and then surrounded his derricks with gatt tanks for protection, then guarded the front of his base with lasher in bunkers with a couple of psy towers.

Then he built an attack force with a few each of lashers, gatt tanks, mags, masterminds, yuri clones, brutes, and virus, which got demolished by a couple of seal-ifvs and a few GGI-battle forts.

His base was tough to crack with all the defenses, but the battle was lost for him before it started because after defeating his force, we could seal him in easily and make our attack force as big as we wanted and get tons of free paradrop fodder.

[YuriAndroklov]

I think Yuri is actually harder to use for noobies. He's got so much good stuff it's easy to go bankrupt with a horribly-mixed force and way too many defenses if you don't know what you are doing.

I saw this on Bay of Pigs a couple of days ago. This guy would put up some defense to stop every small hit-and-run anywhere, and then surrounded his derricks with gatt tanks for protection, then guarded the front of his base with lasher in bunkers with a couple of psy towers.

Then he built an attack force with a few each of lashers, gatt tanks, mags, masterminds, yuri clones, brutes, and virus, which got demolished by a couple of seal-ifvs and a few GGI-battle forts.

His base was tough to crack with all the defenses, but the battle was lost for him before it started because after defeating his force, we could seal him in easily and make our attack force as big as we wanted and get tons of free paradrop fodder.

Come on, initiates are better than GIs and controling things earn alot of money. and can save money by putting initiates into power plants.:o

[truefeel]

GI's and initiates are equal, except on urban maps with garrisonable buildings. there, the initiate is overpowered.

I think that a deployed GI is better then an initiate, b/c of the range difference, but initiates have powerfull attack, which makes initiates better in alot of situation then the GI.

[Teron]

Mmm.... grilled Apocs. Garrisoned Initiates is the one Yuri overpoweredness I want to keep ^^

[Uufje]

The gun of the War Miner is not so strong and makes troops angry so they destroy your War Miner! But he has more storage then the Chrono Miner. But the War Miner has a long way home, when the Chrono Miner automatically teleports to the refinery! But he doesn't have great storage... I don't know it anymore :irked:
:emo: Uufje

[truefeel]

the rookie weapon is great vs infantry.

[Statalyzer]

Come on, initiates are better than GIs and controling things earn alot of money. and can save money by putting initiates into power plants.:o

What does any of that have to do with my post?

[YuriAndroklov]

What does any of that have to do with my post?
I mean Yuri is more easier to use than other country.:looklive:

[Statalyzer]

I mean Yuri is more easier to use than other country.:looklive:

Well, Yuri is harder to use if you aren't good at the game, which was the point of that post I made that you quoted.

[YuriAndroklov]

Ok! I lose! Well, I don't think yuri slave miner is the same equal as other miners. Do you think so?:chin:

[truefeel]

-in terms of mining, it's the best unit.
-in terms of fodder, it's the best unit
-in terms of survival, it's difficult to say it's better or worse. when it's been attacked, it normally can't run to safe spots, unlike the other miners, BUT you can afford it to let your tanks be further away of it. it requires alot of time to kill a slave miner and if protection can come in time, it's save.

[YuriAndroklov]

But the bad thing is that noobs can't use slave miner that well. And expert and noobies can't repair it's life, it can only self-repair. I'm not sure about this, but I want to ask, can a Engineer IFV heal a slave miner live?:thought:

[truefeel]

yuri has no repair IFV and will only get one by MCing it. In normal cases, your argument about repair IFVs isn't relevant in practice.

If I'm right, deployed slave miners don't self heal, but you can repair them by sending an engineer in it. undeployed slave miners can't be repaired; not sure if they self heal.

and the argument about that n00bs is not a disadvantage of the slave miner. If you can't use a slave miner well, you certainly can't use a war or chrono miner well.

[Teron]

Undeployed Slave Miners self-heal and can be healed by captured Repair IFVs.

Deployed Slave Miners do not self-heal, and can only be repaired by sacrificing an Engineer.

[yurihomer]

does soviet/allie miner auto heal?

[truefeel]

yes.

[YuriAndroklov]

yuri has no repair IFV and will only get one by MCing it. In normal cases, your argument about repair IFVs isn't relevant in practice.

If I'm right, deployed slave miners don't self heal, but you can repair them by sending an engineer in it. undeployed slave miners can't be repaired; not sure if they self heal.

and the argument about that n00bs is not a disadvantage of the slave miner. If you can't use a slave miner well, you certainly can't use a war or chrono miner well.
If you have allys just use yuri prime to capture their their technolghy for service depot and Repair IFV. And yuri IFV is really harder to use for noobies because healing with an engineer cause a unworth it prices, and you can't just heal slave miner by undeploying it all the time because you need it to dig some gold. And if there is a sniper killing all the slaves, and noobies mostly won't have immediate action.:flame::flame::flame::flame::flame::flame::flame::flame::flame::flame::flame:

[truefeel]

If you have allys just use yuri prime to capture their their technolghy for service depot and Repair IFV. And yuri IFV is really harder to use for noobies because healing with an engineer cause a unworth it prices, and you can't just heal slave miner by undeploying it all the time because you need it to dig some gold. And if there is a sniper killing all the slaves, and noobies mostly won't have immediate action.
nobody will let a yuri prime MC his CY. So in normal conditons, your tactic doesn't work.
ehmm, unworth for it's price ?? what's worce, loosing a 1750 credit worth vehicle which is needed for your income or a 500 credit worth engineer ??

your point that you can't just undeploy your miner for healing is indeed true. therefore, sacrifice that engineer when the slave miner is really damaged. damaged miners will be the first pray for raiding partys.

I don't think n00bs will let the sniper just standing there. the sniper maybe able to kill one or 2 slaves (which get regenareted anyway for free). Then, the sniper will get killed or maybe even MCed.

btw, who's fault is it then if the slaves get killed; the lsave miner or the n00b ?? the argument about n00bs is completely irrelevant here, cause n00bs mess up everything.

[YuriAndroklov]

Well, ok. But I still say controling noob allys construction yard for some good technologhy is quite a good tactic, then everybody will have alot of tech to defeat the enemies.:chin:

[truefeel]

If you can own his CY easily, you can also win the battle easy. No need for 5 minutes teching up when you can whipe him from the floor in 3 min.

[YuriAndroklov]

If you can own his CY easily, you can also win the battle easy. No need for 5 minutes teching up when you can whipe him from the floor in 3 min.
Hey! They are my allys, why blast them.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[truefeel]

1. WTF ?? you didn't told me your were going to control your allys CY.

2. your ally will not agree with it, as he might need the CY to produce buildings

3.You first need to tech up your yuri techtree and after that, you need to spend all of your money on making magnetrons/lashers/gatts/masterminds/
... . You will get in seriously economic trouble if also need to tech up half or complete an allied tech tree.

[YuriAndroklov]

Well, ok. But I still say controling noob allys construction yard for some good technologhy is quite a good tactic, then everybody will have alot of tech to defeat the enemies.:chin:
See! And I never get bankrupt when I do it.:D

[truefeel]

ok, my apologies then. scrap argument 1 from my last post:D .

[YuriAndroklov]

Sorry for argument too! Well let's get back to slave miners again I still felt that slave miner is lousier or better than the others, but not equal, if they are equal, please tell me why.:happysad::blahblah::chin:

[Statalyzer]

It's not equal, it's better. Much tougher to kill, brings in more money, doesn't need base stretchage, doesn't get hurt by facing the wrong direction, can be repaired in the field.

[YuriAndroklov]

It's not equal, it's better. Much tougher to kill, brings in more money, doesn't need base stretchage, doesn't get hurt by facing the wrong direction, can be repaired in the field.

That's what I think too. But I felt Slave Miners get killed easily because they are too slow.:)

[Statalyzer]

Speed isn't a big deal. How often do Chrono or War miners escape destruction because of pure ground speed? Very rarely.

[YuriGagarin]

In my opinion, the slave miner is bad because It has to bring itself to the place and let out the slaves, the soviets' and allies' refinery sits safely in their base only exposing their miners to danger, but the slave miner, which is the refinery, and the slaves are both exposed to danger. And the only way to let your slave miner to be not exposed to danger is to let it sit in your base and let the slaves go out and dig ore. Which is virtually impossible because it needs alot of micromanagement and the slaves are inselectablecombatant, and it is a bad idea, the slaves move too slow and carry too little ore and can get killed easily.

[Teron]

Nah. Slave Miner is a miner, not a refinery, as far as scale goes. It can be vulnerable due to it's lack of speed, but the toughness more than makes up for it. The one problem with Slave Miners is that if all get destroyed, you don't have a refinery to fill the requirements for some buildings, even if you otherwise had money. (But this is a double-edged sword: If you still have a War factory, but your ConYard's gone, you can still make perfectly functional miners without the need to have a Refinery anywhere)

PS:
How many of you would consider this force cheesy:
a crapload of Lashers
a lot of Initiates
about 10 Snipers (opponent is USA, has Airport=crapload of infantry)
5 or so discs
1 Boomer sub

[IgmaanDigneet]

It's not so cheesy as it is weak since you have no mindcontrol, dont use mags and lack AA.

[YuriGagarin]

5 disks IS AA, and it has the potential of a mag too, it can shut down bases just like mags shutting down tanks by picking them up. And it can steal your money.

[IgmaanDigneet]

Riiite, if you rely 100% on disks for AA you're going to loose, period. Gatts own, use them.

[YuriAndroklov]

5 disks IS AA, and it has the potential of a mag too, it can shut down bases just like mags shutting down tanks by picking them up. And it can steal your money.


Yaa! IgmaanDigneet is right! Flak Troopers do not matter that much, but how about flak truck, sea scorpions.... You know, all fodders, tanks have their weak point. Combos are pretty good to prevent the enemies to use weak points on them. But I'm still not good in using combos.:chin::happysad:

[YuriGagarin]

I know all this, but at least the disks is AA, even it's not powerful AA. I know that if you rely only on disks you aren't going to win, but look:
PS:
How many of you would consider this force cheesy:
a crapload of Lashers
a lot of Initiates
about 10 Snipers (opponent is USA, has Airport=crapload of infantry)
5 or so discs
1 Boomer sub


You think that any force listed above can own you the game, I'll say no. So atleast the disk have AA, drain power, drain credits, and still can fight, and can utterly destroy some noob's base without air defense. (Some noobs just build loads of prism tower or pillbox or any other ground defense but no AA)

[Teron]

The opponent had heavy air defence. Something like half a dozen IFVs and probably over 20 deployed Guardians. The opponent fended it off in the end (should have made a dual strike with tanks to the heavily defended front and disks from another direction), but claimed it to be "cheesy due to ten thousand disks"
(I only had over 10 later in the game when I was massing for a titanic airstrike to take out his CY).

Guess he was still recovering from our last game (In which I didn't play quite fair - my first and last Boomer rush in a friendly game (Map was Lake Blitzen). Sheesh, boomer rushing is dull)

[IgmaanDigneet]

That's because it's overpowered, imo playing as yuri is dull altogether as it is much too easy to win if you're fighting allies or sovs. If you want reasonably fair match-ups you should play ra2 instead.

Yaa! IgmaanDigneet is right! Flak Troopers do not matter that much, but how about flak truck, sea scorpions.... You know, all fodders, tanks have their weak point. Combos are pretty good to prevent the enemies to use weak points on them. But I'm still not good in using combos.:chin::happysad:
Flak troopers can save you the game when you lack air defences and get attacked by too large a force of rockies for one flaktrak to handle. Although you shouldn't be in a situation like that in the first place they can be handy when you need AA at your base fast and flaktrak production can't keep up.

I wouldn't consider flak trakks as fodder since they often carry fodder (conscripts, dogs, tesla troopers etc) and like the sea scorpions they are very effective AA units and need to stay alive in order to maintain air defence for your units. In the case of sea scorpions you could use some as fodder since the sovs have no real alternative but only if you can manage to win the encounter quickly as to avoid heavy losses.

Combos are great as long as the units involved are managed properly so they won't be doing tasks they aren't really suited for. It is necessary in every game to make as good use of the units available to you as possible; don't focus too much on a single unit to do everything and don't diversify too much either. It really depends on the situation whether to go for a lot of fodder or not. Often it's best just to focus on tanks.

[YuriAndroklov]

Anyway, about all of you have a point, but plz let us get back to topic beside quarreling.:sadwave::sadwave::sadwave:

[Statalyzer]

In my opinion, the slave miner is bad because It has to bring itself to the place and let out the slaves, the soviets' and allies' refinery sits safely in their base only exposing their miners to danger, but the slave miner, which is the refinery, and the slaves are both exposed to danger.

Yes, it means the refinery is more in danger, but Yuri also has more refineries. If he has 6 miners, he also has 6 refineries. If the Allies or Sovs have 6 miners, they probably have 1 or 2 refineries.

So even though his miner is the miner and the refinery, losing a miner doens't hurt him the way losing both a miner and a refinery would for Allies or Soviets.

Also, as someone pointed out, he can lose all his refineries and his conyard, and still make money because of his warfactory. Allies and Soviets are doomed if they all their refineries and conyard.

[YuriAndroklov]

Well, you have a point, so they are equal?:chin::chin::chin::chin::chin:

[Teron]

No. Technically, the Slave Miner and the War Miner are probably closest to each other in function, and of those, the Slave Miner is clearly better. The Chrono Miner's teleportation offers it unique advantages over both armed miners.

To sum up: All miners have some unique strengths and disadvantages, but I'd say the Slave Miner has an edge. It may not be enough to consider it overpowered per se, but it definitely has more advantages than disadvantages in comparison to the War Miner.

[starscream007]

So can we safetly put this argument to a rest? :shifty:

[Teron]

Pretty much.

[YuriAndroklov]

It is pretty amazing how the EAs make Ra2 so equal.:cool:

[Sandboy23]

:color3: I think that the chrono miners are supirior because they collect ore faster, escape from enimies quick, can chrono from terror drones, and collect ammence numbers of ore when you have more than 3 miners, so what the soviet miner has a gun, it sux exept against dogs and terror drones, and its super slow also,

well keep playing
and have fun!!!:color3:

[YuriAndroklov]

:color3: I think that the chrono miners are supirior because they collect ore faster.

That's not true , Chrono Miners seems to dig ore faster, but they only dig $500. War Miner digs $1000 so it is longer Chrono miner digging speed is War miner 2/3 but can chrono back so they are equal.:mad::)

[Teron]

Even if both dig equally fast and make the same amount of trips, the Chrono is slower - it has to perform two dump animations to dump $1000, instead of the one the War Miner has to.

[truefeel]

dudes, base yourself on the good arguments that have been made in this topic, I's say. the conclusion is easy:

-the slave miner is the best
-the war miner is the runner-up
-the chrono miner is the worst.

In practice, it depends how you micro your miners. do you micro it well, then you make a chrono miner better then a slave miner on condition that that slave miner is not micro'd

[YuriAndroklov]

Chrono Miner is and slave miners are lousy if the player is a noob. But if the player is a expert, Chrono Miner and Slve Miner wil be better than Slave Miner. My Thinking.:):chin::\

[truefeel]

slave miner needs far less microing then a chrono miner or a war miner. the only thing you need to do is clicking once and a while to the ore so the slave miner stays close to the ore. chrono and war miners need far more microing.

[IgmaanDigneet]

Exactly. and that is imo the most important reason why the slave miner is without a doubt the best miner:

if two players of the exact same skill level play eachother, the one who has to spend more time microing his miners will most likely be the one to loose since he will have a harder time microing both his army and miners. Especially if the other player takes advantage of this fact by making full use of possible distractions.

[YuriAndroklov]

Most noobs don't know how to use Engineers on Slave Miners and when something attack noobs slave miner, they may just stare at it happening or try to run away. Which means that expert can use it alot better than noobs.:D:D:D

[truefeel]

it doesn't matter what n00bs do. n00bs mess far more up then slave miners.

[YuriAndroklov]

Yaa! Pretty True! Noobs don't often bother their miners or do something when their miners are attack.:chin::chin::chin::chin:

[silenscer]

EA Games should upgrade chrono miner.:looklive:
Screw EA, you can edit it yourself doofus.

[Spider786]

you know this is quite a number of months old right?

[Statalyzer]

Screw EA, you can edit it yourself doofus.

:hyper:

If he edits it himself he won't be able to play the game like that.

But the miner doesn't really need to be edited.

[Mercenary]

they are equal, with strenghts and weaknesses.

crono miners can o far to mine and come back fast. But cannot defend it self.

And also can get rid of drones. they do not mine Alot, i mean they carry little ore.

War miners get screwed if droned. but can defend against TANYA!.

and they carry Alot of ore, bacause sovs have no purifacation device.

[Teron]

No, they're not. Strengths and weaknesses yes, but it's a simple fact that a miner with a machine gun is generally more effective than one without.

Chrono Miners certainly aren't worthless - it's just that War and Slave Miners tend to be more effective.

[Statalyzer]

War Miner and Chrono Miner are closer in ability to each other than they are to Slave Miners.

[YuriGagarin]

No, they're not. Strengths and weaknesses yes, but it's a simple fact that a miner with a machine gun is generally more effective than one without.

Chrono Miners certainly aren't worthless - it's just that War and Slave Miners tend to be more effective.

For noobs slave miners or war miner should be better right?

[truefeel]

ADVANTAGES OF THE MINERS ON THE OTHER ONES

Chrono miner
-Can chrono away when in danger
-Can go right away to other fields without traveling, providing there's an ore refinery near that ore field.
-radation is not a treat

War miner
-Is faster in getting credits then the chrono miner, b/c of less need of microing and refineries
-Better in terms of (anti)fodder then chrono miner
-radation is not a treat

Slave miner
-The best in terms of mining and getting credits; needs very little microing, once and a while a click near the ore
-Needs no basewalking to get more ore
-Best fodder unit; it is the most strongest miner + it has it's own fodder: the slaves
-slaves are free and regenerate when killed. Only disadvantage of this is that the slaves get killed by radation and are considered the weakest part of the miner. Should be no problem though b/c other miners need also protection.

[wthigon]

-radation is not a treat





-radiation is not a threat :drunk:

[truefeel]

no; a threat is something that helps, a treat is something that is dangerous.

[SgtRicko]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but don't the miners die in the rad fields on that map where the radiation is scattered all over the center crater area?

[YuriRuler90]

Sinkhole? No.

[YuriAndroklov]

The Yurigagarin post before was post by me in his account.

If there is a new country, that you can put on your imagination, what do you want the miner of the country to be like if you can buy the miner in two different forms one that don't need refinery and is $2000 and the other one needs refinery and is $2000. :cool:

My idea only for the one that needs refinery.

It moves 2 times slower than the war miner and is equiped with one battle fortress like infantry slot and can carried $1500 a go and can hover on water and can deploy in to the sky and move two times slower than a kirov but if you use the if you use that deployment to move around too long. The miner will eventually fall and crash, cause the jet pack can't hold that long, the deployment can only be use for 2.5 minutes you can deploy back down to save some of the jet pack patrol. you can use that deployment to go over cliffs. woohoo. what? you wanna recharge? K go to the service depot and need 2.5 five mins to recharge and need $300 for the total recharge fee. I wish this miner isn't to unbalance.:\

Give your remarks of this miner. And any question for this miner?:squint:

[truefeel]

ehhhh, somebody in for a more simple miner ???

[Chubbychunks]

no; a threat is something that helps, a treat is something that is dangerous.

Other way round. ;)

[Spider786]

personally, i think that each sides miner is only most efficient to that side, e.g the warminers extra load's make up for the sovs lack of a purifier.

[truefeel]

They have the industrial plant and that thing saves more money then the extra money the ore purifier makes.

[Spider786]

oh yea, buut i was talking about ra2 where everything was intrinsically balanced.. lol

[YuriAndroklov]

How about the Miner I imagine. I forgot to say you need at least one refinery and service depot if you want the miner that don't need refinery. Pls give your own idea for what would you want a miner to be like and also i decide not to care how much the miner is. No rules for it, invent it totally to your thinking.

Last thing, is the miner that invent balance good or blah blah blah?:|

[truefeel]

oh yea, buut i was talking about ra2 where everything was intrinsically balanced.. lol


then they get the cloning vats :p.
Ra2 isn't really balanced; soviets still have the upperhand. Thougth the game isn't simply "unbalanced". Allied players can fill up the holes with better microing, but better microing again costs more skill... .

[SgtRicko]

How about the Miner I imagine. I forgot to say you need at least one refinery and service depot if you want the miner that don't need refinery. Pls give your own idea for what would you want a miner to be like and also i decide not to care how much the miner is. No rules for it, invent it totally to your thinking.

Last thing, is the miner that invent balance good or blah blah blah?:|


I'd imagine flying harvesters (ex. chinooks) or customizable harvesters that can be upgraded given the situation. For example, if you're dealing with terror drones or infantry a lot, you can add a machinegun turret, or if you are getting hassled by air force or artys you can add on an ECM jammer, or use a temp. invunerability shield or somethin... Honestly, no matter what you do, some hardcore player is going to find a way to make your ultimate harvester extremely overpowered and underpowered all at once.:|

[Statalyzer]

They have the industrial plant and that thing saves more money then the extra money the ore purifier makes.

But it doesn't affect buildings or infantry while the Purifier affects everything.

Plus, the miners were designed when there was no Industrial Plant. The plant was a good idea but it should have been made less powerful considering the Soviets already had a build time advantage.

[DaRk ViPeR]

War Minor By Far...
Not Only does it have the infantry defender turret and when its veteran it turns into an anti tank turret too...
And on top of that, it gets 1000 in gold when the chrono only gets 500
and it gets 2000 in gems when the chrono only gets 1000...
How ever, with chrono minors the more refineries the faster te money comes in.
6 minors, 3 refineries its cash in a flash...
Which is very good if you have the purifier down.
So i recon theyre even.

[truefeel]

But it doesn't affect buildings or infantry while the Purifier affects everything.

Plus, the miners were designed when there was no Industrial Plant. The plant was a good idea but it should have been made less powerful considering the Soviets already had a build time advantage.

The ore purifier doesn't affect any of those. It only affects your money. How that is spend, is irrelevant. What is relevant, is how much longer you can produce things. With industrial plant you save alot on tanks. Tanks are always being made (except in cases were you can't make tanks), so in practice you save always money with it. Also with the ore purifier is this, but you get less extra money then you save money on tanks with the industrial plant, simply b/c tanks are faster being made laye game then miners can go to the ore, mine, and go back to the ore refinery

[YuriAndroklov]

Thks for making a thread about miners last so long. I like chrono miner but I'm not sure which is the best. Or if the miners are too balance.

[SgtRicko]

Thks for making a thread about miners last so long. I like chrono miner but I'm not sure which is the best. Or if the miners are too balance.

I'd say that they're balanced well enough.

[YuriAndroklov]

I'd say that they're balanced well enough.

Yup, I can't find a pinch of which is better. I can only know which miner is people's favourite.

[grapies07]

i like chrono miners better because u cant terror drone them which pisses me off because i like 2 go soviets who get a crappy war miner with a gun which can be slowly avoided and also chrono miner get at least double the amount of cash which is unfair:tantrum::color3::evil::flame::color1:

[truefeel]

They don't get the double of amount. War miners can mine 1000 credits at a time, chrono miners 500 credits. chrono miners can make in theory 2 trips for each trip a war miners makes. so that makes chrono miners get (again in theory) 500x2 credits for each 1000 credits war miners get. So in THEORY that's fair. But in practice, it isn't. If a chrono miner is dumping ore at the refinery and an other chrono miner also is fully loaded, that other one has to travel the distance between the ore refinery and the ore, instead of chronoing to it. Now you can say that war miners always have to travel, but that is in this situation not a disadvantage, b/c the disadvantage of making 2 trips for each trip of chrono miners is already made up by the double oreload capacity. Each cell that the chrono miner has to travel back to the refinery is in fact an advantage for the war miner. In general, you need 1 refinery for each 2 chrono miners so that the chrono miners don't have to travel back, while you only 1 refinery for each 4 war miners.
An other disadvantage of the chrono miner is that if you have multiple ore refineries and are at different ore fields, that there's a chance that the chrono miner chronoes to the wrong refinery and has to travel back to the right ore field. This can be solved by microing your miners, but you can't always do that, else your opponent might be able to do things you don't notice b/c you are busy with microing your miners.
Further, the war miner does has an advantage in terms of fodder. In long games where players have mined all the ore on the map, they do one final assault and use every unit, also the miners. They use then the miners as fodder. Now: the war miner has a gun. That gun is very good for kiling infantry and thus a very good anti-fodder unit. chrono miners don't have that.
There are exactly 2 advantages the chrono miners has. The one you said with the drone and the other is that you can chrono the chrono miner to a different ore field, providing there's an ore refinery next to it. war miners have to travel that piece. Though war miners are in general better for economy and in battles.

[Statalyzer]

As long as Chrono Miners always shift back to their own refinery right away after collecting ore, the miners are equal. However, as truefeel pointed out, this doesn't always happen. Making the Miner's AI smarter would have helped of course, sometimes they travel back when they should be shifting.

Chrono Miners do have more survivability than War Miners. That gun won't help you when several tanks split off and hit your miner by surprise at once, but the Chrono Miner can retreat, and then you get your main force back together and drive off the tanks that are in the orefield, and keep mining. Now someone might say "But what if you can't drive away those tanks? Then the Chrono Miner's instant retreating didn't help you since you can't go back and mine more ore" That's true, but if you can't keep enemy tanks off your ore you are screwed no matter what miner you are using and your base is probably about to be overrun.

War Minor By Far...
Not Only does it have the infantry defender turret and when its veteran it turns into an anti tank turret too...

It only gets a tank's gun when elite, which should only happen when playing a noob or when getting lucky with crates.

[YuriAndroklov]

Actually I think Slave Miner might be the best, cause anti-fodder and cheap and can be repair fast and can turn it's slave into brutes. But I dunno how much money can one slave mine. I think it is about a $100.

[Cylon Crusader]

As long as Chrono Miners always shift back to their own refinery right away after collecting ore, the miners are equal. However, as truefeel pointed out, this doesn't always happen. Making the Miner's AI smarter would have helped of course, sometimes they travel back when they should be shifting.

Chrono Miners do have more survivability than War Miners. That gun won't help you when several tanks split off and hit your miner by surprise at once, but the Chrono Miner can retreat, and then you get your main force back together and drive off the tanks that are in the orefield, and keep mining. Now someone might say "But what if you can't drive away those tanks? Then the Chrono Miner's instant retreating didn't help you since you can't go back and mine more ore" That's true, but if you can't keep enemy tanks off your ore you are screwed no matter what miner you are using and your base is probably about to be overrun.



It only gets a tank's gun when elite, which should only happen when playing a noob or when getting lucky with crates.

Exactly im giving you some pos rep.

[truefeel]

Hey ! what about me ? I said just the same, but then more detailed:( .



:p

[YuriAndroklov]

Hey ! what about me ? I said just the same, but then more detailed:( .



:p

I would like to give you 5 reps but only can give 1 and give before last time.

[Statalyzer]

Actually I think Slave Miner might be the best,

That's pretty much a consensus.

Chrono Miner and War Miner are very close in ability. It all depends on the situation you are in. War Miner is probably slightly better, but not much and the gap is small enough that player skill is almost always the deciding factor. But the Slave Miner is definitely overpowered.

[truefeel]

Each slave can mine 150 on ore (300 on gems) x 5=750. 1 Slave mines slower then a chrono/war miner...

...but what most people forget is that the time to mine is divided under 5 slaves. The slaves mine at the same time and so you get 750 credits at the time of a relative slow mined 150 credits. And that makes the slave miners are better, b/c war miners or chrono miners can not mine 750 so fast. For the rest, slave miners do not require stretching. Also far less microing.

[YuriAndroklov]

Each slave can mine 150 on ore (300 on gems) x 5=750. 1 Slave mines slower then a chrono/war miner...

...but what most people forget is that the time to mine is divided under 5 slaves. The slaves mine at the same time and so you get 750 credits at the time of a relative slow mined 150 credits. And that makes the slave miners are better, b/c war miners or chrono miners can not mine 750 so fast. For the rest, slave miners do not require stretching. Also far less microing.

I don't use sniper to kill slave miner's slaves, but I admired how the AI snipers kill my slave and it take me a while to notice.:p.

[Cylon Crusader]

I don't use sniper to kill slave miner's slaves, but I admired how the AI snipers kill my slave and it take me a while to notice.:p.

that was great the first time i expeirienced that takes me back to 6 years ago... good times, good times.

[Dracaveli]

As far as being the best, that honor goes to the chrono miner but it's not really a advantage....i'll explain why

when using one ore refinery and mutli chrono miners they become regular miners when one is depositing ore, the rest cannot chrono back instead they drive like a regular soviet war miner but with 500 in credit instead of a thousand like the war miner....with limited ore refineries u put yourself in a disadvantage with the soviets

but what makes the chrono miner top dog is the ability to fund your fellow human allied players, u can chrono your miner to a soviet's or another allied (human) refinery and give him much needed cash....that by far gives a savvy leader of a side a great advantage if he wants his sov's partner to build faster then normal early in game

slave miners in my view are the worst, since u can spy them unless the enemy stations a dog near it.......plus the fact u dont have to hit their ore, just being a camo-slaved spy, u can sneak (very slowly) deep within his base and he wouldnt even know

[truefeel]

slave miners in my view are the worst, since u can spy them unless the enemy stations a dog near it.......plus the fact u dont have to hit their ore, just being a camo-slaved spy, u can sneak (very slowly) deep within his base and he wouldnt even know

IMO, if your slave miner got spied, you don't deserve better. If you let it happen with a slave miner, it would also had happened with a normal refinery.

And a spy cannot operate inside a YURI base.It would get inmediately killed. And you all know why.

but what makes the chrono miner top dog is the ability to fund your fellow human allied players, u can chrono your miner to a soviet's or another allied (human) refinery and give him much needed cash....that by far gives a savvy leader of a side a great advantage if he wants his sov's partner to build faster then normal early in game

IMO, if you need to give your teammate money, then your teammate cannot handle his economy. In teamgames, both you and your teammate(s) are responsible for a good running economy to make many units. You could better use the money for your own to make units and protect him instead; if it is really that dramatic.

[Dracaveli]

depends on how "allied" u are with the other players, if u really good u dont need to say anything before hand once he see's u funding him he will know what to do...hell, i've won games with just 4 harriers and my sov ally using 1 kirkov...

[truefeel]

And what if the opponent team is as good as your team ? Then you can't just sacrifice your own money to support your ally. IMO, it should be only done if one player of the team has much more ore that he can mine then the teammate, lategame of course. But even then...
But ok, there are situations where your teammate has no money anymore and giving him money could then be the difference between win or loss. So in such situations, it could prove usefull, but not always.

[Daishi]

Whatever gets you faster cash (mines better) is the better miner. That would be the Chrono Miner.

Thread over.

[truefeel]

Eh, no.

[Zancloufer27]

THe Chrono Miners get half the cash in half the time. They are equal for the most part. It depends on the map to, if it is a map with 50 Gem fields scattered around the map, the Chrono miner wins. But if it is one Ore field behind each base, the War Miner wins. Depends on the amount of money, and some luck. Also, War Miners, good fodder, a little more efficient, but Chrono miners, Fast, and can escape.

[truefeel]

Normally, war miner is better. Ore and gems are almost always packed and not scattered. Besides, if your opponent attacks your chrono miners, you will loose chrono miners if you can't scare him off. For the simple reason that you can't chrono back all the miners at once.

[Daishi]

Whoa, you mean the war miner holds more? :eek: That changes my entire view of RA2!

I need to get online and start using the soviets...

[truefeel]

I'll quote myself; read it:

They don't get the double of amount. War miners can mine 1000 credits at a time, chrono miners 500 credits. chrono miners can make in theory 2 trips for each trip a war miners makes. so that makes chrono miners get (again in theory) 500x2 credits for each 1000 credits war miners get. So in THEORY that's fair. But in practice, it isn't. If a chrono miner is dumping ore at the refinery and an other chrono miner also is fully loaded, that other one has to travel the distance between the ore refinery and the ore, instead of chronoing to it. Now you can say that war miners always have to travel, but that is in this situation not a disadvantage, b/c the disadvantage of making 2 trips for each trip of chrono miners is already made up by the double oreload capacity. Each cell that the chrono miner has to travel back to the refinery is in fact an advantage for the war miner. In general, you need 1 refinery for each 2 chrono miners so that the chrono miners don't have to travel back, while you only 1 refinery for each 4 war miners.
An other disadvantage of the chrono miner is that if you have multiple ore refineries and are at different ore fields, that there's a chance that the chrono miner chronoes to the wrong refinery and has to travel back to the right ore field. This can be solved by microing your miners, but you can't always do that, else your opponent might be able to do things you don't notice b/c you are busy with microing your miners.
Further, the war miner does has an advantage in terms of fodder. In long games where players have mined all the ore on the map, they do one final assault and use every unit, also the miners. They use then the miners as fodder. Now: the war miner has a gun. That gun is very good for kiling infantry and thus a very good anti-fodder unit. chrono miners don't have that.
There are exactly 2 advantages the chrono miners has. The one you said with the drone and the other is that you can chrono the chrono miner to a different ore field, providing there's an ore refinery next to it. war miners have to travel that piece. Though war miners are in general better for economy and in battles.

[Theft4219]

I got a couple of mine to elite that cannon is freaking awesome -- defence wise of course

[Daishi]

Thank YOU Dr. Feel! I read it all. :D

[truefeel]

I got a couple of mine to elite that cannon is freaking awesome -- defence wise of course

Elite war miners are good, but not worth getting to elite status. You need every miner to get money.

[rydarNUKE]

I think war minors are best off in packs , just bugs me when the dromes get into then.
however chrono minors can get away from them better.

But would crono be better , if you can get your units to defend it.
plus money would get in quicker so is there need for war minors to have defense?

[truefeel]

You don't get money quicker with chrono miners, only more spreaded out. you get 1000 credits for a fully loaded war miner. Due half trips and halfload capacity, chrono miners get 2x500 on the time of a war miner, so that's equal, if you don't consider other factors, which are mostly in the disadvantage of the chrono miner...

and nothing to do with packs. they both are the same, except trips and load capacity, when you look to solely mining.

About the drone: war miner can kill a drone in 2 shots in RA2, one single shot in YR. You only need to keep an eye on your opponent until you got 3 war miners; then it would practically be impossible to get a miner droned.

If you think that chrono miner don't need protection, then you are wrong. If attack an ore field with 5 chrono miners on it and you don't send units to scare me off, you will get 2 chrono miners chronoed away and the other 3 you loose.

[Statalyzer]

Even when you have several War Miners, you can still get one droned if it's heading back to unload while the others are still in the field.

Besides, if your opponent attacks your chrono miners, you will loose chrono miners if you can't scare him off. For the simple reason that you can't chrono back all the miners at once.

But you can't chrono back any of the miners at all if you're Soviets. Also, you're more likely to get 3 out of 5 saved than 2, since the enemy can't fire on all of them at once. You should have more than one refinery anyway, saving 2 miners right away. Then you should be able to clear out room for a 3rd before all 3 other ones die.

Still, though, you're likely screwed either way. If your enemy gets tanks into your field unopposed, and kills more than 1 miner, Chrono OR War, you are likely in deep doodoo if you can't strike him a crucial blow FAST.

[truefeel]

Even when you have several War Miners, you can still get one droned if it's heading back to unload while the others are still in the field.


That can only occur very early game.after that, Most likely the other war miners are active in the ore field near enough the ore refinery and you also will have several tanks. The chance you can then drone a war miner is almost zero.

But you can't chrono back any of the miners at all if you're Soviets. Also, you're more likely to get 3 out of 5 saved than 2, since the enemy can't fire on all of them at once. You should have more than one refinery anyway, saving 2 miners right away. Then you should be able to clear out room for a 3rd before all 3 other ones die.

Still, though, you're likely screwed either way. If your enemy gets tanks into your field unopposed, and kills more than 1 miner, Chrono OR War, you are likely in deep doodoo if you can't strike him a crucial blow FAST.

That's what I ment.

[Statalyzer]

That can only occur very early game.after that, Most likely the other war miners are active in the ore field near enough the ore refinery and you also will have several tanks. The chance you can then drone a war miner is almost zero.

You can do it even with 5 miners or so, but you have to be patient, which is a problem because you can't just sit there and manuever your drone for over half a minute if your opponent is doing anything threatening.

[truefeel]

IMO, it's not worth to wait for the perfect moment, b/c making a service depot is easy and most of the time quick enough to save the miner. On top of that, it has more chance to fail then to succeed, especially when you place a sentry gun next to your refinery.

[Statalyzer]

That's what I was saying - you can still do it, it's just probably not your best move. I'm actually fine with my opponent building a service pad since it still cost more than my drone did and meanwhile I can be getting another wf or something, it's just that I have better things to be doing than sitting there and watching his miners.

With a sentry gun there, it isn't just more likely to fail, it's certain to fail.

[rydarNUKE]

I change my mind I go for the war minder after looking at both.

[truefeel]

That's what I was saying - you can still do it, it's just probably not your best move. I'm actually fine with my opponent building a service pad since it still cost more than my drone did and meanwhile I can be getting another wf or something, it's just that I have better things to be doing than sitting there and watching his miners.

With a sentry gun there, it isn't just more likely to fail, it's certain to fail.

Not true. it costs 1000 and you can sell it again, giving back 500 credits. you lost a drone of 500 credits, that's equal That is if you succeed. if not, you lost 500 credits. If you build in the meanwhile an extra WF, then it doesn't makes much difference, as I would be only half a WF behind. maybe equal to a 0.25 tank ?

A sentry gun doesn't always means it will fail. if he places it on one side if the refinery, you can could attack the miner when it's dropping off the ore at the other side of the refinery. What the sentry does is cutting off alot of angle to attack from.

there are still other methods to drone a miner. for example destracting it with one tank and then drone; or attacking a miner from behind, which is mining at the edge of the ore field (turret is too slow to get turned in time).
Though all are risky and IMO not worth to do. you're better off with microing your miners.

[Dracaveli]

attacking near a allied refinery is risky, there's a bug exploit....you should know what i mean:chin:

[YuriAndroklov]

Woah! This thread is still going.

[Statalyzer]

Not true. it costs 1000 and you can sell it again, giving back 500 credits. you lost a drone of 500 credits, that's equal That is if you succeed. if not, you lost 500 credits. If you build in the meanwhile an extra WF, then it doesn't makes much difference, as I would be only half a WF behind. maybe equal to a 0.25 tank ?

If it succeeds, they lose the repair cost plus they lose the time that is spent doing something besides mining. I'll take an 0.25 tank plus lost opponents income for free any day! The problem is (and I think we both agree on this) that it isn't for free - if the opponent has 4 or 5 miners you'll sit there with your drone and lose other opportunities to do better things.

A sentry gun doesn't always means it will fail. if he places it on one side if the refinery, you can could attack the miner when it's dropping off the ore at the other side of the refinery. What the sentry does is cutting off alot of angle to attack from.

Miners only unload from one side. If you put the sentry gun on that side, it will cover a war miner the entire time that the miner's gun cannot fire.

there are still other methods to drone a miner. for example destracting it with one tank and then drone; or attacking a miner from behind, which is mining at the edge of the ore field (turret is too slow to get turned in time). Though all are risky and IMO not worth to do. you're better off with microing your miners.

I always liked unloading a flak trak with 2 drones in the ore between two miners. They'll fire on the transport unit and not shoot the drones. It's almost guaranteed to kill at least 1 miner since it takes more time to repair two. The problem of course is it costs $1500 so if it fails then you are probably going to get tank rushed right away.

[truefeel]

Miners only unload from one side. If you put the sentry gun on that side, it will cover a war miner the entire time that the miner's gun cannot fire.

with the side I mean left or right from the entrance of refinery, not the back or the rear.

If it succeeds, they lose the repair cost plus they lose the time that is spent doing something besides mining. I'll take an 0.25 tank plus lost opponents income for free any day! The problem is (and I think we both agree on this) that it isn't for free - if the opponent has 4 or 5 miners you'll sit there with your drone and lose other opportunities to do better things.

Remember: making that drone also took time to build: half a tank
but let's say you won one tank with it. That doesn't mean directly you won the game, except the map is so small and that drone came so early, that I have only 1 tank and you 2 tanks, that I then could loose. However, few maps are like this and I bet you aren't gonna attack with only that one tank more then me on Country Swing for example, where I just could build a sentry between you and my tanks and have tanks directly to the battle, whereas you can't.

I always liked unloading a flak trak with 2 drones in the ore between two miners. They'll fire on the transport unit and not shoot the drones. It's almost guaranteed to kill at least 1 miner since it takes more time to repair two. The problem of course is it costs $1500 so if it fails then you are probably going to get tank rushed right away.

Vs. a decent player, it will fail any time of the day. he will either try droning the flak, killing the flak+the drones. if it fails, he can still put tanks on the ore field while moving. Drones move very slow in ore and get killed by the war miners. yes, there is a good chance a tank gets droned. But IMO, better loosing 1 tank then 1 flak track and 2 drones.

[YuriAndroklov]

I think I prefer war miner because chrono miner is good but u need to make it teleport back to base etc when it is attack, by controlling it. But even if you don't control a war miner to do something, it will at least attack the opponent, and still dig ore when doing so. And it pwned Yuries and Yuri Primes, and Initiates, and virus, and brutes.:D.

[nyarlathotep]

New to the forum, not to the game (though I lack multiplayxp). My favourite is the war miner, cause it's got a decent gun, quality armor, it's mindcontrol resistant and it makes me rich :moonie:

[Avapodnaught]

Anyhoo...
How 'bout placing a tesla trooper next to the refinery on a patrol (I don't think it is possible without using a guard or agressive stance, I dont trust that part...), but u could also have it nearby to protect ur war miner and if it attacked the tesla troop instead of the miner or get killed by it it is pretty good considering u and he made the same 500, unless he used more than one one flaw easy to recover if the miner is also attacking... now I go test it out to see how many flaws there is in that...

Probably two attacking with miners back turned still get good results if it isn't near a sentry turret...

[Statalyzer]

Tesla Trooper is probably as good as a sentry at drone-killing, and it's mobile which is a nice bonus as well. Not a bad idea actually.

[apple23]

ermm.... did anybody notice that this thread is a year and a half old? that noob bumped it

[Avapodnaught]

Surprised u brought that up... I wouldn't have noticed if u didn't say that... I guess it is rather old, but still, he's new right?
Really think it is a good idea? I have yet to tried it, as I have just started to play a little Ra Yuri, but that is because I have tons of friends on it... they still seem loyal despite my months of absence... that means... GOOD FRIENDS!!!

[YuriAndroklov]

ermm.... did anybody notice that this thread is a year and a half old? that noob bumped it

Wow.... yeah, simply amazing, but I 540+ days 204 replies... not a good record. :sleep:. Teh smilies in this forums are great. =P Aniways, I support chrono miner, shuld have make a poll out of this thread, the noob me who just learn about the thing call forums did not noe how to make a poll bak then. N if u wanna get up to 50 replies a day n meeting extreme forummers, hit this forum: http://forums.playpark.net/ [Its insane but interesting, my ID is Solarrior there] Me 14 years old now XD.