About the brotherhood's arsenal RA1 spoiler

[Psycho Ninja]

Okay, according to the story line, Stalin controlled the entire continent of Eurasia, then was poisoned. Nadia took over and was talking about starting the brotherhood of Nod, saying the brotherhood would grow tired of the soviet union in the 1990's. Kane then kills her, probably after deciding he does not want her to be in the brotherhood. Sometime later, Kane probably does away with the USSR and forms the brotherhood of NOD.

Now my question. The Soviets had the mammoth tanks, heavy tanks, grenadiers, and all the heavy stuff. The Allies had the light tanks, the artillery, the gap generator, etc. Why does Kane have all the slow, heavy stuff in Red Alert, but by the time he's with NOD, he gets all the light fast stuff? Why do the missions with NOD now start with a spy or something like that when it used to be the force AGIANST Kane? Ya know what I'm trying to say?

[Soviet779]

Okay, according to the story line, Stalin controlled the entire continent of Eurasia, then was poisoned. Nadia took over and was talking about starting the brotherhood of Nod, saying the brotherhood would grow tired of the soviet union in the 1990's. Kane then kills her, probably after deciding he does not want her to be in the brotherhood. Sometime later, Kane probably does away with the USSR and forms the brotherhood of NOD.

Now my question. The Soviets had the mammoth tanks, heavy tanks, grenadiers, and all the heavy stuff. The Allies had the light tanks, the artillery, the gap generator, etc. Why does Kane have all the slow, heavy stuff in Red Alert, but by the time he's with NOD, he gets all the light fast stuff? Why do the missions with NOD now start with a spy or something like that when it used to be the force AGIANST Kane? Ya know what I'm trying to say?

No idea, very valid arguement and tbh it makes no sense at all....

Suppose what happened to the USSR in real life is what happened to it in RA1, in that it simply collapsed and fell to bits (due to the brotherhoods actions probably) rather than the brotherhood becoming the USSR.

Personally i just make up my own explanation to it, theres a cannon somwhere that people follow religiously at planet cnc. I took it with a grain of salt though.

[SgtRicko]

I personally believe that the Red Alert and Tiberian timelines are in separate universes, due to Einstein's Chronosphere usage.

[Soviet779]

I personally believe that:
Soviet victory in RA1 --> tiberian dawn --> tiberian sun --> tiberian wars
Allied victory in RA1 --> red alert 2 --> red alert 3, where yuri with an army of mind controlled dinosaurs come back to invade the earth and enslave the allies. The only thing that can stop them is... dogs! He cant mind control dogs! :p

Either way ive been told whatever you believe theres gonna be plotholes.

[Nyerguds]

Ex-WW people at the Petroglyph forum have confirmed that the Allied ending of RA1 is the only one that really happens.

Also:
-In case of Allied victory, it's logical that the secret technologies of the USSR got lost in the chaos.
-Tanks get outdated pretty fast, and while the TD Mammoth could be based on the old soviet design, you can bet it's loads more advanced internally.
-As for the allied chronosphere/gap tech... well, play the expansion mission 'Paradox Equasion', and you'll get enough reasons to ban any chrono-based technology forever after the war is over.

As for RA2... well, that game is one big plothole, so I'm not even going to try fitting that in. To me, RA1 is the immediate prequel to TD.

[Psycho Ninja]

I personally believe that:
Soviet victory in RA1 --> tiberian dawn --> tiberian sun --> tiberian wars
Allied victory in RA1 --> red alert 2 --> red alert 3, where yuri with an army of mind controlled dinosaurs come back to invade the earth and enslave the allies. The only thing that can stop them is... dogs! He cant mind control dogs! :p

Either way ive been told whatever you believe theres gonna be plotholes.
Yeah, I always thought this was the case. The soviets win, Kane takes over the USSR (Nadia was gonna be part of this as she mentions the Brotherhood's intentions, though Kane probably had second thoughts). If the Allies win, Russia is in ruins. Stalin is not killed in a glorious empire, but killed in the rubble. Now, Kane could have survived, but would not have the means necessary to create something as big as the Brotherhood of NOD.

[Daishi]

The PG staff have revealed that originally, RA1 --> RA2, and was enventually gonna be led into the Tiberium universe, but now EA is in control, and they can do whatever they want with the story, including what C&C was originally planned out to be by Westwood. So we won't know until it happens. And yes, the Allied endings are the true ones in every RA and expansion so far.

We can assume Kane was there (he was Stalin's advisor), and he has not been seen since the end of the Great War. The Apocalypse (which resembles the Mammoth in most aspects) is developed in the course of the RA2 campaign, which is interrupted by the events of Yuri's Revenge, after which the Allies and Soviets are assuredly at peace. Now that the world is united, they can put forth a GDI to rise up against Nod when Kane resurfaces in a cult, which eventually orchestrates a massive seizure of the media and raises an army from stolen equipment with integrated technology from the Scrin, who have probably been tied with Kane since the very beginning.

I've been making it up since about mid-paragraph, but I think that's how it was most likely devised to run.

And I don't think a cult could capture the hearts and minds of the Soviet Union. Even if there was a coup, Europe would intervene.

[Mikael Grizzly]

The Allied ending is canonical.

Following Stalin's defeat, Kane retreated to his stronghold in Africa. While the Allies sifted through the rubble and scavenged Soviet tech, Nod expanded it's influence and power, acquiring decomissioned Allied tanks and weapons at discount prices (the Allied arsenal was phasing out weaker units), allowing Nod to turn the weapons of the Allies against them.

It's simple.

[SgtRicko]

Well, just as I said before, my theory goes that the only link that exsists between the two universes is Einstein's activation of the Chronosphere and assasination of Hitler, and nothing else.

In one universe, Einstein successfully tests and uses the Chronosphere, leading to the events of the RA universe.
In the other universe (ours mostly, until 1995), Einstein's Chronoshpere test fails and he abandons the idea of time travel.
However, Kane exsists in both: it's just that he never got the chance to do much in the RA universe... YET.

(BTW, I was also going to go into that whole topic of time paradoxes and the old "killing your father before you were born" thing, but I wanna keep this post simple and not over-complicate it. I'll just conclude by sayng that the RA3 plot would have probably involved stopping Einstein from killing Hitler in the past in order to prevent the RA universe from exsisting for some reason or another)

[Daishi]

They created another one. They altered the balance of world power again when the Soviets killed several Tyrannosaurs during a time-travel stunt.

[SgtRicko]

They created another one. They altered the balance of world power again when the Soviets killed several Tyrannosaurs during a time-travel stunt.

Er, What???:wtf:

[Daishi]

I was just "overcomplicating" it for you. :p

You do remember the Soviet mission 1, right?
Lol jk. Probably nothing in ANY of the Soviet campaigns actually happened.

[Mikael Grizzly]

I disagree. Several elements from the Soviet campaigns fit perfectly in the canonical storyline, especially if you disregard RA2.

[SgtRicko]

I was just "overcomplicating" it for you. :p

You do remember the Soviet mission 1, right?
Lol jk. Probably nothing in ANY of the Soviet campaigns actually happened.

Actually, the RA1 campaign seemed to connect to the Allied story slightly until about halfway through (I think it disconnects on the 6th or 7th mission). But for RA2, the story seems to disconnect pretty early on, probably around that mission where you fight off the Korean fleet in Vladivostok.

[Daishi]

It disconnects before the first RA2 Soviet mission. The Pentagon is destroyed so that it cannot appear in the sixth Allied mission. The distance along their respective timelines is rather noticeable.

[SgtRicko]

It disconnects before the first RA2 Soviet mission. The Pentagon is destroyed so that it cannot appear in the sixth Allied mission. The distance along their respective timelines is rather noticeable.

Damn, forgot about that. Good call, man.

[MercZ]

RA2 was never really thought of by Westwood, but when they brought it up (RA was a popular game in its own right, obviously) they were going to fit it in somehow, but EA hurried them and inadvertently created an alternate RA universe.


IMO, RA has always come before TD. From there, it's up to the player. Enter the Tiberian Realm, or continue on an alternate path.

RA's ending with the Allies implicate that the western nations salvaged Soviet tech, as a previous poster stated, and Kane went around behind and bought all the lighter Allied goods on clearance, and fed on the anger of the Third World on the West.

Though the Soviet one seems to spawn the Tiberium Universe as well, as after Kane and Nadia kill Stalin, (and Kane kills Nadia), creating the chaos for Nod to gain power.

Either way honestly, it still leads to the TS storyline it seems, just Nod will take a different path up.

If you guys are curious...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHdgstg-7KY

Colors messed up though

[Mikael Grizzly]

Both would lead to Tiberian Dawn. Remember, the meteorite was already en route to Earth. The distance wasn't a small one either.

[Nyerguds]

Actually, you have no idea how far the consequences of changing time may reach.

Well, just as I said before, my theory goes that the only link that exsists between the two universes is Einstein's activation of the Chronosphere and assasination of Hitler, and nothing else.

In one universe, Einstein successfully tests and uses the Chronosphere, leading to the events of the RA universe.
In the other universe (ours mostly, until 1995), Einstein's Chronoshpere test fails and he abandons the idea of time travel.
Um... I always saw it the other way around.. that it's exactly because of Einstein's meddling with time that the C&C universe becomes different from our universe. Meaning that because of the butterfly effect, Einstein's meddling is the reason that tiberium landed on earth in their universe, while it didn't in ours.

[Mikael Grizzly]

I can't see why the meteorite wouldn't hit. It disappeared halfway or what?

Also the butterfly effect might not apply to outer space - it's simply too vast.

[MercZ]

None the less, his time meddling did create an opportune time for Kane to put his plots into action.

[Nyerguds]

Since the chronosphere affects time, it affects the entire universe... who says the only effects of it were Einstein being transported through time and Hitler disappearing? Keep in mind that the chronosphere technology has never been fully understood... it remained an experimental technology.

[Mikael Grizzly]

You're confusing natural events with history. The chronosphere screwed up history and science, but it wouldn't affect any natural events, and the meteorite was such an event. Not to mention that the Chronosphere would have to alter the position of Earth for the meteorite to miss, and that was beyond it's capabilities. Remember, it's a very small scale effect.

[Daishi]

You're confusing natural events with history. The chronosphere screwed up history and science, but it wouldn't affect any natural events, and the meteorite was such an event.
You're using the wrong terminology, and the effect is simply hilarious.
Natural events not affected by time travel?

Not to mention that the Chronosphere would have to alter the position of Earth for the meteorite to miss, and that was beyond it's capabilities. Remember, it's a very small scale effect.

Very nice. The chronosphere would not have prevented the meteorite from striking. The chronosphere does not warp reality, nor does it ruin the laws of physics. It simply allows small objects to travel through time and space. As far as we know, it does not cause sudden changes in mass sufficient to throw the planet off its axis and ruin the meteorite's trajectory. (assuming again the meteorite was not destined to hit by a nearby Scrin planter, which I believe was the case) The Scrin came to Earth in the first place either to plant Tiberium or to mine it.

[Mikael Grizzly]

You're using the wrong terminology, and the effect is simply hilarious.
Natural events not affected by time travel?

If you can prove to me that a time traveler can avert the Krakatau explosion or the Vesuvius destroying Pompeii and Herculanum then I'll agree I was proven wrong.

Very nice. The chronosphere would not have prevented the meteorite from striking. The chronosphere does not warp reality, nor does it ruin the laws of physics. It simply allows small objects to travel through time and space. As far as we know, it does not cause sudden changes in mass sufficient to throw the planet off its axis and ruin the meteorite's trajectory. (assuming again the meteorite was not destined to hit by a nearby Scrin planter, which I believe was the case) The Scrin came to Earth in the first place either to plant Tiberium or to mine it.

Due to lack of emoticons I assume this is not your attempt at being ironic but at being logical. Then, good post.

[Nyerguds]

actually, something as simple as light refracting off the earth differently and affecting some particles some light years away from earth can theoretically have a huge effect on anything in space.

[Mikael Grizzly]

The key word is light years. And the scale. One year on Earth is a second compared to the vast universe.

What I mean is, any effect the light would have would not be observable
in a single life span.

[darkelf2x1]

wasnt ea going to release something to be canon relinking ra and ts,

- - - - -

after ra 2 the canon links were severed between the two universes,

the allied ending became true story canon thus negating the ties created in the soviet campaign...


but when you think about it the sever was a good thing... or at least it seems right

[NODorGDI5]

May I add my opinion? I think that the scrin decided to
target earth was because they, themselves didn't have time
travel completely worked out yet, but had developed a way to
detect the usage of it. So they must have detected it on earth,
and decided to capture the working chrono technology (to
reverse engineer it). But by the time their investigations force
got there, the chrono technology was nowhere to be found. So
instead of wasting the trip, they would terraform the minerally
diverse earth into a "habitable" planet.

[Nyerguds]

In to some thread on the Petroglyph forum, Adam Isgreen said that Nikolai Tesla contacted the aliens during RA1.

[Statalyzer]

Okay, according to the story line, Stalin controlled the entire continent of Eurasia, then was poisoned. Nadia took over and was talking about starting the brotherhood of Nod, saying the brotherhood would grow tired of the soviet union in the 1990's. Kane then kills her, probably after deciding he does not want her to be in the brotherhood. Sometime later, Kane probably does away with the USSR and forms the brotherhood of NOD.

We don't know what happens sometime later, because the Soviet missions are not an actual timeline, they are just a hypothetical war with you as the Soviet General becuase they want the player to always lead his side to victory.

Now my question. The Soviets had the mammoth tanks, heavy tanks, grenadiers, and all the heavy stuff. The Allies had the light tanks, the artillery, the gap generator, etc. Why does Kane have all the slow, heavy stuff in Red Alert, but by the time he's with NOD, he gets all the light fast stuff?

Well, after RA1, the Soviet Union was set up with a puppet government that was in the interest of world peace. So, the Soviets would have contributed some of their technology to the GDI as well as the Allied countries and the USA did.

Then Nod has to get light, cheap, sneaky stuff, because at that stage of their existence, they are better off with hit and run tactics than trying to openly challenge GDI in a strong battle of attrition.

[Mikael Grizzly]

The Soviet campaign, while not entirely canonical, runs along the Allied campaign to a certain point, that point being when the Allies strike back and roll over the Soviets.

In short, at least a half of the Soviet campaign is canonical.