Invading a base, on what to focus first?

[bugglemenot]

I haven't been into Generals, but what do top players focus on first when invading an enemy base?

[Daishi]

Top players in Generals you mean? What they look for is a weakness in their opponent's defense. It's virtually impossible to have a flawless defense by the time your enemy mobilizes, except perhaps in GLA mirrors, so the idea is to attack where there are fewest enemy units. It also helps to lead your attack with something to cripple their local force early on. (a TT, GP, China airstrike, w/e.

Understand that pros don't tend to spam defenses except as GLA. (no power required and tunnels rock) Fixed defenses may or may not play a much greater role in TW.

[OneWiseSith]

The most important strike against your opponent especially early on is killing their economy. No money no war. Within first 4 Min's you do your best to cripple you opponent financially; both at base and abroad. Choose what ever may be the softer target. Who ever quickly controls tiberium abroad and utilizes micromanagement of this will own early and often. There are many tactics of course. I myself am by no means a linear player, but working this angle might prove the most amusing online since now there is VOIP so the frustration of economic doom can now be heard not just typed.

[Derek]

Top players in Generals you mean? What they look for is a weakness in their opponent's defense. It's virtually impossible to have a flawless defense by the time your enemy mobilizes, except perhaps in GLA mirrors, so the idea is to attack where there are fewest enemy units. It also helps to lead your attack with something to cripple their local force early on. (a TT, GP, China airstrike, w/e.

Understand that pros don't tend to spam defenses except as GLA. (no power required and tunnels rock) Fixed defenses may or may not play a much greater role in TW.
I think that he was only using Generals as a reference, he actually wanted to know about CNC3.

The most important strike against your opponent especially early on is killing their economy. No money no war. Within first 4 Min's you do your best to cripple you opponent financially; both at base and abroad. Choose what ever may be the softer target. Who ever quickly controls tiberium abroad and utilizes micromanagement of this will own early and often. There are many tactics of course. I myself am by no means a linear player, but working this angle might prove the most amusing online since now there is VOIP so the frustration of economic doom can now be heard not just typed.
The economy in CNC3 is way too hard to harass. There are some units that can do this well, such as Orcas, but in general harvesters aren't good targets. If you have tanks nearby and they have nothing to defend with, go for it, but if you are pressed for time look for softer targets. Your prime targets are probably going to be powerplants and cranes. These have very low health but are critical to proper base function. Destroying expansions is also a good idea, although this isn't harassment (since your goal is complete destruction of the expansion), it is still a good idea because expansions are expensive and time consuming to establish.

Of course we still have a week and a half to go before we can actually play the game, and until then we won't really know what works and what doesn't, but the demo has given us some idea.

[Alpheus]

Well, it's very dependent on the actual situation but it's usually best to take out the weaker first.

However this doesn't mean go after their riflemen when an obelisk is wailing on you. Let's say you have a couple tanks and are up against a scorpion tank and a rocket squad. Now you should be able to take out the rocket squad pretty fast, no? So it'd be in your tanks best interest to take out that squad quickly while the scorpion only gets a few shots off instead of taking out the scorpion first(which will take some time) while the rocket squad gets a lot of shots off.

Long story short, if what you're targeting outputs comparable damage to you, always take out the one with fewer hit points.(assuming you can't cut the power vs defensive structures) Though, if you have a few juggernauts around, they do wonders to (defensive)structures.

[Derek]

He asked about what part of the base to focus on, so its assumed that their are no units around for the time being. However, more units might be arriving, which is why you want to do as much damage as possible in the shortest time possible.

You are right about taking out the rocket soldiers first, although to be precise you should only use one tank to take out the rocket soldiers (by running them over) while the rest focus on the enemy tank.

[OneWiseSith]

To clarify: By economy I was leaning more toward the replacement of buildings that uses up cash and takes up build ques, perhaps even delaying a tech center build, tilting the odds in your favor.............. Although, I have found a tidy way of direct refinery & harvester ownage early that also gets some good results for fast vehicle veterans and in the end gets you a vehicle & rig defended tiberium field (from the leaked multi player maps Ive seen tiberium fields abroad look to be key) With the rig opened up near the enemy refinery. (Harvester will come to you by default) As he sends forces or the few that were already defending attack, your tanks defending the rig will repair and become veteran quickly. Use 1 rig 2 or 3 vehicles before 3 Min's in. Tips- Always make sure your focus of fire is correct. Start repairing rig immediately after initial hit. This is an expensive screw up if not handled objectively & with care.

[Alpheus]

I used units as an example because I felt it clearly demonstrated the theory to be applied to all situations. Another reason I didn't mention specifics for base defenses is because, like I said in my first post, it's dependent on the situation. Besides, targeting power was already mentioned so there's no point in me being redundant.

I should hope every reader here is intelligent enough to be able to the correlation between what I mentioned about units and how it applies to base defenses.


P.S. refer to my old post about your uselessly 'know-it-all' correcting my posts please, thank you.

[Derek]

Well the thing is it doesn't correlate too well, because you won't see a whole lot of base defences. You might see some, but mostly bases will be defended only by units.

[MercZ]

From what I've seen in other RTSS, I've noticed players harass as much as they can to keep the other player from teching, while they tech themselves. The key is to keep your losses minimal while pressuring the enemy to rebuild any units or structures you've destroyed.

When players actually assault bases, they either tend to have a small group take the defenses and draw fire while the bulk comes up behind them.

It all really depends on the situation, and we can't really think of any true strategies until we play with real players (Since human players, while not having the level of micro the AI have, are much more unpredictable).

[SgtRicko]

You forgot one key building to destroy beyond all others: The Con Yard. Take that out, and not only will you demoralize your opponent (at least if they are human, but you'll also eliminate their abilty to create more Cranes and Surveyors.

[Derek]

You forgot one key building to destroy beyond all others: The Con Yard. Take that out, and not only will you demoralize your opponent (at least if they are human, but you'll also eliminate their abilty to create more Cranes and Surveyors.
Too much health, don't bother with it unless you have an engineer.

[SgtRicko]

Too much health, don't bother with it unless you have an engineer.

Still though, if you ever have the chance, don't pass it up!

[Derek]

Still though, if you ever have the chance, don't pass it up!
If there are better targets (and there almost always will be), then you should pass it up.

[SgtRicko]

If there are better targets (and there almost always will be), then you should pass it up.

Dude, the Conyard is practically the heart of the base! You kill that sucka, along with a crane or two, and KNOW the games gonna be over soon!

[Derek]

But it takes way too long to kill. You're giving your opponent pleny of time to make a counter attack, and if you don't fully destroy the CY then its all for nothing. You would be much better off taking out factories, refineries, and tech buildings, all of which have much less health but are comparably expensive.

[Soviet779]

But it takes way too long to kill. You're giving your opponent pleny of time to make a counter attack, and if you don't fully destroy the CY then its all for nothing. You would be much better off taking out factories, refineries, and tech buildings, all of which have much less health but are comparably expensive.

Yeah its kind of an all or nothing tactic that. If you do what derek said then you know your chances of winning are greatly increased without losing much. If you know the enemys crap and not gonna be able to muster a defence or resist in any serious way then by all means go for the CY, it wont matter lol.

[Lion]

I haven't been into Generals, but what do top players focus on first when invading an enemy base?

I wouldn't consider myself a top player, but I've played against a few of them. What I usually do when playing any C&C games online is control the economy. I would concentrate on any base expansions your opponent is building. Of course, it he's not expanding to another tiberium field, then at his main base it would be his power first, then any refineries. Crippling his power shuts down structures and base defenses, and taking out the refineries stops his economy.

Some players go for the CY...but as Derek has already pointed out, it takes too long to bring that structure down, and gives your opponent time to muster up a counter-attack. You cripple his power and economy first, then come back later for the CY. Besides, whilst your attacking his base, you should be building units for the next attack, or for defending any counter-attack he may have on the way.

We'll know more of what works and doesn't once the retail version is released.

[CO Valle]

Also, don't forget to target production structures (War factory, barraks,...) you never know what is about to come out (if anything...), anyway you don't want to fight an Uber unit on one side and an enemy strke team on another (assuming there is one).

[JBV3737]

in late games when you botyh have large armys and you manage to get into his base. if you can kill his mcv/crane/warfactory this will prevent him from building; if you cant do this do production buildings or tiberium ref/harvy.
if he has tons of defences you may want to target his power or main tech building.
if he has a SW then take that out first.

[Soviet779]

I would adjust what to take out dependant on the opponent and the threat level. If im in his base i assume ive detroyed his army, and i would kill anything that can shoot back first.

Yesterday i destroyed an army of preds and mammys as scrin, i got into his base but i wasent sure about what his ally was doing or sending. Or if he had any reserves, he had an ion cannon but this was at the back of the base and 5 mins away from firing. So i just destroyed as much as i could, turned out his ally never sent much, two avatars and a bomber, and he only had pitbulls in reserve. But just to be safe i took out the three factorys at the front, and slowly moved forward destroying everything i could. Rather than taking out the most important structures i took out what i knew i could take out easily.

[darkelf2x1]

attacking the CY can force the enemy to panic allowing another attack force to attack key targets
- force the enemy to prioritize and keep him micromanaging thus putting a strain on him

but the cy attack force needs to be large enough to be a threat - dont mass the attack force - try to spread them out to buy a little time for the 2nd force

- - - - -

if he has a loaded air field i would attack it - thats about 9000(?) dollars in losses for the enemy if hes using fhs with a possible 6000(?) dollar difference between you inital investment and the financial damage they incurred

- of course you should attack the power plants as previously stated

- - - - -

if targeting sw your better off attacking the power source - but if prepared for a desperate move - build airfields and send fhs, or verts to go on a suicide run

i like to spam units and then rush them past base defenses marching to the rear of the base - its a waste of money but if you target the reactors their will be a serious power drain to contend with

as always have another force ready so that they can rush past the deactivated defenses and reinforce the first wave survivors

[GGdown]

If you wanna take out a SW as GDI, use the radar scan ability to drop pod some Zone troopers behind it. It's very rare to see anyone defend the empty space behind their base, and typically SW's are built at the back. If you happen to have your own SW ready to hit them with, that helps too! In addition, players will tend to send alot of their troops to try and save the SW, so if you then hit the area with your very own ion cannon, you manage to wipe out half of their defensive army too!

[Annihlator :D]

If you wanna take out a SW as GDI, use the radar scan ability to drop pod some Zone troopers behind it. It's very rare to see anyone defend the empty space behind their base, and typically SW's are built at the back. If you happen to have your own SW ready to hit them with, that helps too! In addition, players will tend to send alot of their troops to try and save the SW, so if you then hit the area with your very own ion cannon, you manage to wipe out half of their defensive army too!

Honestly I think I might be a little weird then, because I would build base defenses and deploy them. I'm almost certainly going to loose the SW so I might sell it, but taking units away from defense just leaves me uncomfortably open. Also I dont play against great players so I dont really have to worry.:\

[Gaucho8788]

But then how do you get better.

[Annihlator :D]

[quote=Gaucho8788;331711]But then how do you get better.[/quote

( nto to be sarcastic or mean, please dont take it that way)

But is that really why I dont get better?

[Daishi]

You get better by playing at all, but you get better faster by playing better players.

[Derek]

You get better by playing at all,
Not entirely, you can only improve so much when playing opponents worse than you. Eventually you will need better competition if you want to improve any more.

[Daishi]

Eventually, yes. It helps best to balance the skill of your opponents equally, in my opinion.

[JBV3737]

Eventually, yes. It helps best to balance the skill of your opponents equally, in my opinion.

I find if you want to improve your skills, go to the brodcasting page at cnc3 offical site. try to find someone highly ranked and watch their game. see what he does. Or you can go online and chalange someone with highrank and get owned, and look at the replay.

[Annihlator :D]

I find if you want to improve your skills, go to the brodcasting page at cnc3 offical site. try to find someone highly ranked and watch their game. see what he does. Or you can go online and chalange someone with highrank and get owned, and look at the replay.


For some reason that does not work for me :/

[Daishi]

I find if you want to improve your skills, go to the brodcasting page at cnc3 offical site. try to find someone highly ranked and watch their game. see what he does. Or you can go online and chalange someone with highrank and get owned, and look at the replay.

When there's gamereplays.org's C&C3 section? Roffle.

[Derek]

When there's gamereplays.org's C&C3 section? Roffle.
Yeah, I was about to say that. GR.org is loaded with replays between good players (including the current #1 ranked player). Even better, they've used the built in commentating system to produce a bunch of shoutcasts. In past game shoutcasting was complicated, but CNC3 facilitates it so GR.org has over twenty shoutcasts already that you can easily watch.

[red_pr!nce]

First, I hit their Ichor Refineries at first. It will give them a time to replenish their economic loss, while I can plan for another assault on their War Factories. :D

[Daishi]

After some experience, I find that the best possible target is their power, especially when you stumble upon several in a small area. Killing their low-HP reactors denies them the ability to spam in-base defenses in an attempt to stop your aggression

Then hit the cranes.

Then hit their economy. (if you're attacking the Scrin, aim for the refineries, not the harvesters)

If your opponent has docked planes, hit the airfield first. Mostly just go for what's in your way from the above targets.

[SgtRicko]

Then hit their economy. (if you're attacking the Scrin, aim for the refineries, not the harvesters)

That brings up an issue I always have against the Scrin: how the hell do you command your troops NOT to fire on their harvesters!?! Everytime I attack a Scrin base, their harvesters end up getting in the way and get killed, thus causing an ion storm which kills off any crippled units and any infantry that were too close at the moment! :mad:

[Derek]

That brings up an issue I always have against the Scrin: how the hell do you command your troops NOT to fire on their harvesters!?! Everytime I attack a Scrin base, their harvesters end up getting in the way and get killed, thus causing an ion storm which kills off any crippled units and any infantry that were too close at the moment! :mad:
Order them to attack something else or if there is nothing else put them on lowest stance, Hold Fire. However attacking harvesters is always good, even though they leave an Ion Storm behind them the lost economy will always hurt the Scrin more than it will hurt you.

And while we're talking about what to do in bases, when you have a force moving through a base turn its stance to the highest level, Aggressive, this will make them attack enemy structures in addition to units while they move. Just remember to turn down the stance when you're done.

[SgtRicko]

I've noticed that the ion storms seem to last longer and get stronger under certain circumstances, one of them being if the harvester was full at the time, I think. Not 100% sure on that, though.

[Cylon Crusader]

I haven't been into Generals, but what do top players focus on first when invading an enemy base?

If you have a small attack force then go to some outlying tiberium fields and if he has refineries there, destroy them, therefore limiting his economical strength a little bit. After doing so hold these fields for yourself. When you have a sizable force to attack his main base, lighten up his base defenses by using a few of your special powers. Send in your main force and try to go for his power plants because doing so will deal a devastating blow to his defenses. If you are getting pwned at attacking his base and are losing your attacking units, you can always if possible send in your rienforcements abilities.

Alternatively you can just mammy spam as soon as you can, whip up some juggies and take a bunch of sniper squads for infantry and long range support from the juggies and go in for an early rush at his main base or his outlying base if he has any at all.