Whats happenin in generals nowadays?

[Soviet779]

I read this from derek in another thread "For anyone who is too new to know, in v1.02 Inf reigned absolute supreme and you playing as Inf was considered n00b, then Tox, Nuke, and AF more or less tied for second best gen"

That was the last time i played generals, i was always nuke, and inf was the best. Whats it like now? Whos the most overpowered now? Is nuke still good?

[Derek]

That was something like two years ago to be precise...it would amaze me if you haven't played since v1.03/4 were released. But to answer your question, AF is equal or stronger than any other gen, although not impossible to beat like Inf was. Other strong gens are Tox and Stealth.

[OneWiseSith]

That was something like two years ago to be precise...it would amaze me if you haven't played since v1.03/4 were released. But to answer your question, AF is equal or stronger than any other gen, although not impossible to beat like Inf was. Other strong gens are Tox and Stealth.
I concur

[drgNz~]

It's amusing to find 2v2 "pros" who always take USAF + Tox calling others noob because they don't abide by ****ty fgt rules ..

[Daishi]

And Infantry is heavily imbalanced. Owns crap out of all Chinas and USAs (besides USAF), gets shredded by all GLAs. Toxin is the most popular general by far. (although that may be because of the no-rush plague)

And they made that compass in North America impassable, so you can't hide your strat center on an island anymore :lol:

And there's a really wide gap between the noobs and the pros. Plus roughly 75% of the games are big-map no rush/sw/aur games, in which GLA is heavily overpowered.

Clan wars now runs on the 1.05b patch, created by gamereplays.org. That's about it.

[Derek]

And Infantry is heavily imbalanced. Owns crap out of all Chinas and USAs (besides USAF), gets shredded by all GLAs. Toxin is the most popular general by far. (although that may be because of the no-rush plague)
Any USA can handle Inf fine. Its even easier for AF because they have KR, but well microed flash/mdvees with some Firebases for support can handle anything Inf sends at you. Just watch out for the early bunkerlix rush, if you see an early AF come up immediately research TOW missiles and get some MDs out. As for other Chinas, thats not too bad either, but its a bit more difficult. You need Gatt/TH, which can be tricky to pull off (since THs walk so slowly), but once you tech to Overlord/ECM its in the bag, Inf has no effective way of handling this.

[Daishi]

You need Gatt/TH, which can be tricky to pull off (since THs walk so slowly), but once you tech to Overlord/ECM its in the bag, Inf has no effective way of handling this.

Hackers/THbunkers? Nuke Cannons?

[Derek]

You can try it, you definately will have to try something, but more likely than not the Overlords/ECMs will just roll into your base. Your THs are useless because of the ECMs, MiGs are even worse than they were already (MiGs suck against tanks anyways). Bunkerlix will be owned by a few gatt tanks or a gattlord. Nuke Cannon might stand a chance, but a Helix would deal with that. The problem is that Inf, unlike that other Chinas, does not gain a powerful late game tank. All it gets are ECMs, which are useful against tanks, but only when combined with Overlords.

[drgNz~]

Tank > Inf if played right.

[Soviet779]

Hows the nuke general these days? Did they nerf general tao?

He had a counter to everything on that big death valley map, i could mash anyone up, even infantry generals (if he was as good as or better than me then probably not) but everyone else bar super weapon general was a walkover. Overlords with radiation + nuke planes + choppers (for good opponents) would stomp over everything. Even those little crappy attack bikes, a bit of micro stops them.

Actually im gonna go see if i can find the list of changes and see what they did :D

[Daishi]

Nuke is strong and tons of fun to play. IMO doubtlessly best balanced faction in the game, even in 1.05 all three of these hold true. Stands a decent chance against every faction in the game except USAF, without being overpowered against anything. They're the late game China if anything.

[Derek]

Hows the nuke general these days? Did they nerf general tao?

He had a counter to everything on that big death valley map, i could mash anyone up, even infantry generals (if he was as good as or better than me then probably not) but everyone else bar super weapon general was a walkover. Overlords with radiation + nuke planes + choppers (for good opponents) would stomp over everything. Even those little crappy attack bikes, a bit of micro stops them.

Actually im gonna go see if i can find the list of changes and see what they did :D
Don't play 1v1 no rush on 8 player maps.

[Daishi]

Yeah. Play 1v1 no rules on 8 player maps, its always an imbalanced blast :D

[Soviet779]

Yeah. Play 1v1 no rules on 8 player maps, its always an imbalanced blast :D

If they rushed me as nuke general and failed which 4/5 usually did then it was game over for them :)

This is what i used to do which was a LOT of fun. I used to always play death valley, but of course every now and then there would be a micro rusher that couldnt do macro at all, and it would be obvious, i would have 20+ overlords and he would be building 3-4 crusader tanks or whatever. Since it was an easy win... I would fill the centre of the map (the little town) with barracks and build hundreds of infantry, and a few rocket dudes for air threats. Then just overwhelm the enemy with infantry and capture his entire base. Brilliant fun! :lol: In hordes infantry were pretty lethal (easy to counter too but when your taken by surprise by 100+ it could be difficult) No tanks except overlords can get close to crush emm without being shot to pieces.

[Daishi]

Ya don't spam infantry as nuke, dude.

Ya spam BMs gatts dragons lixes and TCs :p

[Derek]

Mostly the BMs...

[Soviet779]

Ya don't spam infantry as nuke, dude.

Ya spam BMs gatts dragons lixes and TCs :p

Fair enough, but if you dominate the entire map with overlord tanks and garrisoned buildings and your opponents only just got a tech centre you can spam whatever you want lol.

[Daishi]

If you dominate the entire map with overlord tanks and garrisoned buildings and your opponent only just got a tech center, your opponent is an idiot. Simple as that.

[Soviet779]

If you dominate the entire map with overlord tanks and garrisoned buildings and your opponent only just got a tech center, your opponent is an idiot. Simple as that.

Thats what im getting at :p Its fun having an idiot opponent and toying with them for a while, then finally crushing them with solely infantry and informing them they really really suck balls with the always helpful ingame chat :)

[drgNz~]

1v1's on 8 player maps are so bad it's not funny. I remember trying them twice, against the SW noobs who think they can bunker half the map. Of course, USAF on 5 supplies + 8 Dericks is pretty funny ;D

[Derek]

Lol, I remember my first game ever, it was a 1v1 quickmatch on an 8 player map in Generals, I can't remember the exact name of the map, its grassy with a snowy mountain in the middle, small bits of water on the north and south. Anyways, it was USA (me) vs. GLA, the other guy took control of all of the supplies except three that I took, I was spammed to death before too long (although I had asked him not to attack for awhile, so it wasn't too quick). I figured out pretty quickly that those games sucked, but it still took me two months to stop playing no rush games (if you want to know what changed my mind, look up the very first thread I ever posted on these forums, although it was bumped a year after it was created so it might not be at the bottom of a search). I was such a newb back then :p

Yeah, that was totally off topic, but the 1v1 on 8 player maps reminded me of it, honestly I can probably count on two hands the number of games like that I've played.

[drgNz~]

I play no rush a lot because, well, I don't like rushes. Its no fun for a game to end in 2 min, no matter which way it goes

http://forums.cncden.com/showthread.php?t=2196

LOL. ;D

[Derek]

http://forums.cncden.com/showthread.php?t=2196

LOL. ;D
Wow, you managed to find it, congradulations! Reading that thread I sometimes want to go back in time and punch myself :p

[SgtRicko]

I am going to forever relish and treasure this link...

I play no rush a lot because, well, I don't like rushes. Its no fun for a game to end in 2 min, no matter which way it goes

If only I could go back in time and record you on tape, typing those lines...:gnarly:

EDIT: Hey, Drgnz, you know of any Derek saying anything about loving walls and base defenses!?!:chin:

[drgNz~]

Ahahahaha Derek, that's gold. :D

Pretty sure there's some stuff in that thread relating Derek to base defences :p

Gah. Almost finished C&C1's Nod Campaign. W00000T ;>

[Derek]

Nothing about walls though, because wall were never in Generals, and no one complained! :p

[Daishi]

Whoa. Derek was worse than me once? I am filled with inspiration to increase my skill!!

Anyway, my first game ever online was naturally a 1.04 game. Before that I was just LANing with a lot of dudes who had no idea how to play properly. Because I'd had a lot of experience with them in the past, I played infantry and bunkerlixed rushed the ***** out of a few quick ranks. Since then, my win percentage has dropped to 37% when it once was solid 65%. Mostly because I have a bad habit of quitting games when I have to do something IRL.

[Soviet779]

Nothing about walls though, because wall were never in Generals, and no one complained! :p

Yeah lol, there was bigger things to moan about. Wheres the ore/tiberium? Wheres the con yard? A dozer you say? Supplies wtf? NO WAI! :p

[Zancloufer27]

I used to play no rush games, but once I started online in ZH, it didn't take long at all to change that.

What I don't get is that Daishi seems to know more about ZH than me, but I stomp the hell out of him most of the time :p

[Daishi]

The reason, zan, is that the majority of this forum has been online far longer than I have, and I STILL can't play anything except 1v1s because I can only connect to one other computer at a time (no effin clue why). So chances are, you people will always have more experience in this game than me. No hard feelings, though :)

I know so much because I've been under the wing of DGNF's avid players for a while. Long before I could play ZH online. In the meantime all I could do was practice my awful micro and macro at a now-defunct LAN club where everyone sucked worse than I did at ZH. (at least we were playing 1.05) Plus I've been lurking on GR.org for a LONG time.

[Derek]

Yeah lol, there was bigger things to moan about. Wheres the ore/tiberium? Wheres the con yard? A dozer you say? Supplies wtf? NO WAI! :p
Actually, those were all the things that made ZH the best RTS ever, as far as I'm concerned.

[Soviet779]

Actually, those were all the things that made ZH the best RTS ever, as far as I'm concerned.

As far as im concerned starcraft is the best RTS ever. ZH for me was fun, same amount of fun that RA2 was. But i would still rather have had another red alert or tiberian game. One with a con yard and a wall and a growing along the ground resource :)

[drgNz~]

You had how many games with tiberium/ore/conyard/walls, then generals/zh comes along with something new and everyone whinges about not having a repeat of what we've had for the last 5 years.

Okay, the generals series isn't traditional C&C, but it's one of the best RTS games to date and that's what should matter, not the first couple of letters/words in front of the title.

[Derek]

As far as im concerned starcraft is the best RTS ever. ZH for me was fun, same amount of fun that RA2 was. But i would still rather have had another red alert or tiberian game. One with a con yard and a wall and a growing along the ground resource :)
Yet Starcraft had none of those features and neither did ZH. Worker systems and centralized resoruces are in just about every RTS except CNC, and this is no coincidence, its proven to be a better system. The reason ZH was so great was because it took what really made CNC games, fast action in a modern setting (not Con Yards and walls), and combined them with what worked well in other RTSs (worker system, units with special abilities, etc.). This combination was amazingly successful, but most people were to blind with rage that EA changed something to realize this.

CNC3 has attempted to make compromises, with mixed success. Honestly I don't think it will be as good as ZH, but it will hopefully come close.

[Zancloufer27]

So, C&C3 is a mix between Generals and Tiberian Sun?

[Daishi]

Yet Starcraft had none of those features and neither did ZH. Worker systems and centralized resoruces are in just about every RTS except CNC, and this is no coincidence, its proven to be a better system. The reason ZH was so great was because it took what really made CNC games, fast action in a modern setting (not Con Yards and walls), and combined them with what worked well in other RTSs (worker system, units with special abilities, etc.). This combination was amazingly successful, but most people were to blind with rage that EA changed something to realize this.

CNC3 has attempted to make compromises, with mixed success. Honestly I don't think it will be as good as ZH, but it will hopefully come close.

QFT.

So, C&C3 is a mix between Generals and Tiberian Sun?

Pretty much. It's a lot more complicated and fast-paced than ZH could have been, though. That can't be good.

[Derek]

Pretty much. It's a lot more complicated and fast-paced than ZH could have been, though. That can't be good.
Faster, yes. More complex, no. There aren't as many upgrades and special abilities, which means that the units are much more straightforward (ie, x counters y, no exceptions) and the counter system doesn't seem complete, namely, rocket soldiers aren't nearly effective enough against tanks, so they don't get used too much, which means that anti-infantry units don't get used too much. Also, its a lot harder to harass the economy. The restricted building area also reduces the number of possible BOs on a given map.

This isn't to say that it will be bad, I can't wait to get my preordered copy, but I don't expect it to entirely live up to ZH.

[Daishi]

Have faith, it'll be awesome.

My only problem with C&C3 is that its release may deal a deathblow to the slowly diminishing ZHOL.

[Derek]

My only problem with C&C3 is that its release may deal a deathblow to the slowly diminishing ZHOL.
Could be, but I hope not, ZH is still my fall back :p

[drgNz~]

I heard you can build tanks & whatnot in about 5 seconds? Along with what Derek said about unit counters (unit x counters unit y, no exceptions, limiting unit mixing), starting to sound fairly "spammy" to me :S

[Daishi]

It really isn't. Unless you've got Mammoths, but Nod's BOUND to have an effective counter as thye game develops.

[Derek]

GDI definately seems to be the most spammy of them all, Mammoths rape just about everything, including the units that are supposed to be good against them. Nod's got some tricks up their sleeves though that should make for good fun, so I don't think they'll be too spammy. No clue about Scrin.

[Daishi]

When the zone trooper bug gets fixed, imagine how much those dudes are gonna get spammed. It's like Prism Mass 2.0

[Derek]

When the zone trooper bug gets fixed, imagine how much those dudes are gonna get spammed. It's like Prism Mass 2.0
What bug? :rockbrow:

[Daishi]

When they all fire on one another in a large group

[Derek]

Jesus christ, for the millionth time thats not a bug! Its the Nod Millita's hallucinagen grenade. I hate it when people complain about things when they don't even understand what they're talking about.

[Soviet779]

Jesus christ, for the millionth time thats not a bug! Its the Nod Millita's hallucinagen grenade. I hate it when people complain about things when they don't even understand what they're talking about.

lol, ya gotta admit though, it looks like a bug. Theres no hallucinagenic icon anywhere on them, and i never saw no grenade hit my guys :P. They should have an icon, displaying when theyre under the effect of hallucinagens, like when somthing in a games been poisioned, theres usually an icon indicating poison.

[Daishi]

True that! I never would have guessed what was going on. Thanks Derek. And good idea Sov.

[C4]

Could be, but I hope not, ZH is still my fall back :p

Pretty well. What is good stays forever (Anyway, sooner or later i'll have a internet connection at home and i'll need someone to fight with:D ).

So Derek, "no rush" hem?! Seeing how good u have become, these mates around scanned this "entire" forum to find a little glitch. :D (U bast..s!!! Where's the post, where's the post?:rofl: )

Well, it reminds me of my first post about the weak tech and super vee and your "counter chat". By that time v1.01 was the only i knew.
Now after some USA play i realize how wrong i was. Well, i must say...ok, ok... u were right about the most (about the ambulance thing i keep my mind).AhA, but at least i've never played (or liked) "no rush"!:p

About Starcraft: It's one of the best RTS of all time but it has some imba. The pathfinding algorithm would need some improvements, a fact that is a problem to those melee units such as zerlings and zealots, but it's too late to change it in the game, isn't it?! (i don't have the latest patch but...)

[Daishi]

It doesn't scratch my view of Derek in the least. In fact, Its inspiring that someone could learn so much and become such a master after starting out facing the wrong way. :D

[yurihomer]

i tried cnc 3 demo, i am just not a huge fan of it. i don't know why, game is too complicated (and i am just new to this tiberium war thing):(

[Derek]

i tried cnc 3 demo, i am just not a huge fan of it. i don't know why, game is too complicated (and i am just new to this tiberium war thing):(
Dude, you're very good at ZH. CNC3 is not too complicated for you, its simpler than ZH. It just takes time to adjust to a new game. When I first start playing a new RTS, I find that it takes around 5 games before I begin to get a clue what I'm doing, although since CNC3 is more like ZH than other RTSs, I was able to adjust after just a couple games.

[yurihomer]

Dude, you're very good at ZH. CNC3 is not too complicated for you, its simpler than ZH. It just takes time to adjust to a new game. When I first start playing a new RTS, I find that it takes around 5 games before I begin to get a clue what I'm doing, although since CNC3 is more like ZH than other RTSs, I was able to adjust after just a couple games.
like all i know for now is just to build mammaoth tank, and i can't beat medium army yet, (i haven't tried easy) plus my comp can't even run it, game just exit by itself whenever i start scrolling around the map.:|

[Daishi]

Cannot play the damn game on a 15" monitor :(

[Derek]

like all i know for now is just to build mammaoth tank, and i can't beat medium army yet, (i haven't tried easy) plus my comp can't even run it, game just exit by itself whenever i start scrolling around the map.:|
Sorry about your computer, there isn't much that can be done about that without getting a new one. But just play the game like you would play ZH: Get two supplies with a couple harvesters each and two WFs, then spam tanks to your heart's content. Medium will be dead in a few minutes.

[Daishi]

with a couple harvesters each

How many? :shy:

[yurihomer]

Sorry about your computer, there isn't much that can be done about that without getting a new one. But just play the game like you would play ZH: Get two supplies with a couple harvesters each and two WFs, then spam tanks to your heart's content. Medium will be dead in a few minutes.
yea, i guess i will stick with zero hour for now.

[Derek]

How many? :shy:
2:1 harvest to refinery ratio, 1 refinery on the main supply 2-3 on the expansion. This is only for the demo map of course. Also, if you're spikes are destroyed you can put one refinery there with one harvester to collect for a fair bonus.

[C4]

yea, i guess i will stick with zero hour for now.

Good, Good! Well, i don't have CnC3 yet, that's why i'm a little jealous,:D not to mention the fact that i'm not sure of running it "decently", so i'll stick with ZH for now too. There's a small chance of playing online ZH for the first time in a future not to far. When that happens i'll try to let u know. Just hope to play it at decent level even on the lose. :rolleyes:

[Daishi]

You and I will be evenly-matched ;)