Why mod for CnC 3?

[SilentSlaughter]

If your into smaller mods and such like making the UI different or adding a new unit or two and you really like CnC 3 I guess that would be a reason, but when were talking about things like full blown conversion mods and things of that nature what is the point of modding for CnC 3 guys?

Koen, the guy who runs the big CNC3 mod site Tibed.net which has been modding for the series for a very long time flat out said this!

In regards to Supreme Commanders mod community.

Link to the article http://www.tibed.net/index

There even is a special Mod Developer Support Forum. I have received more support from them in one week than I got from Westwood/EA in the past 7 years. Wow!


It sounds to me, hearing a statement like that, no matter what EA does there support for the mod community is always going to be a billion miles behind that of Supreme Commander.

The whole Supreme Commander engine itself seems to have been built directly for the mod community! The game itself is essentially LUA with a graphics engine on top, the modability that can provide even makes the HL2 Source engine look stiff let alone the old SAGE engine.

Isn't this basically a modders wet dream? GPG basically gives you access to the whole engine, documentation, all of there tools and all! Thats something you would have to pay millions of dollars for to get from another company

(though of course you wont be able to sell/make a profit of your own off of this like you would be if you did actually buy an engine :p )

On top of that you also have things like the games upcoming DX10 support.


So knowing all this why on Earth would anyone make a full conversion mod on the SAGE engine? Isn't it time to wave :wave:bye bye? RIP :angel:

Hell if you wanted to you could literally rebuild the whole CnC 3 game right on the Supcom engine easily!

[Arakane]

If your into smaller mods and such like making the UI different or adding a new unit or two and you really like CnC 3 I guess that would be a reason, but when were talking about things like full blown conversion mods and things of that nature what is the point of modding for CnC 3 guys?

Koen, the guy who runs the big CNC3 mod site Tibed.net which has been modding for the series for a very long time flat out said this!

In regards to Supreme Commanders mod community.

Link to the article http://www.tibed.net/index

There even is a special Mod Developer Support Forum. I have received more support from them in one week than I got from Westwood/EA in the past 7 years. Wow!


It sounds to me, hearing a statement like that, no matter what EA does there support for the mod community is always going to be a billion miles behind that of Supreme Commander.

The whole Supreme Commander engine itself seems to have been built directly for the mod community! The game itself is essentially LUA with a graphics engine on top, the modability that can provide even makes the HL2 Source engine look stiff let alone the old SAGE engine.

Isn't this basically a modders wet dream? GPG basically gives you access to the whole engine, documentation, all of there tools and all! Thats something you would have to pay millions of dollars for to get from another company

(though of course you wont be able to sell/make a profit of your own off of this like you would be if you did actually buy an engine :p )

On top of that you also have things like the games upcoming DX10 support.


So knowing all this why on Earth would anyone make a full conversion mod on the SAGE engine? Isn't it time to wave :wave:bye bye? RIP :angel:

Hell if you wanted to you could literally rebuild the whole CnC 3 game right on the Supcom engine easily!


First off Koen gives one the impression,through reading some of the
things he has written of late,of thinking rather highly of himself,imo.
Secondly,and more important, I refer you to The Official C&C 3 forum
where you will find a stickied-thread clearly stating that they are very
much committed to modding with this game.



Arakane

[SilentSlaughter]

Umm...I never said you wouldn't be able to mod CnC 3 or that they weren't going to support it any less then they have with previous games, my point is buddy is that Supreme Commander is offering an unheard of amount of modability that even puts HL2 Source to shame.

This isn't about EA having poor mod support, but Supcoms being far, far beyond anything the mod community has ever seen and knowing that it would be completely illogical to make a full conversion mod using the SAGE engine when you just have so much more available to you with supcom in the mean time.

There is a reason Tibed said they have received more support for modding supcom in a week then they have from EA/WestWood in 7 whole dam years.

Why do a full conversion mod with the SAGE engine that is far more outdated, far less moddable and all around offers far less access and support.

Seriously it seems you would have to be a blind fanboy to use the SAGE engine.

Full conversion mods aren't about the original games, but about the tools, support and moddability of the engine and Supreme Commander is miles ahead in every one of those catagories.

[MercZ]

So you're taking the word of one man over the entire community. Generals was very moddable, and contains numerous mods, like Zero Hour Reloaded, Zero Hour Retarded, C&C All-Stars, etc. EA may've not helped us, but we managed. Same pattern in all the previous games.

Really, your post sounds more like flame bait if anything. The fact you've only had 2 posts seems to sum that. I honestly don't understand why people insist on having competition between these two games. I own Sup Com, and I like it. I played the C&C demo, and I like it. No excuse not to have both :D

Anyways, if you're trying to get attention for the game, I suggest you go somewhere else. This isn't exactly C&C modding central.

[SilentSlaughter]

Not flame bait, just logic, it doesn't make sesne modding on a game with an engine.

There is a reason Tibed said they have received more support for modding supcom in a week then they have from EA/WestWood in 7 whole dam years.

Why do a full conversion mod with the SAGE engine that is far more outdated, far less moddable and all around offers far less access and support.

Seriously it seems you would have to be a blind fanboy to use the SAGE engine.

Full conversion mods aren't about the original games, but about the tools, support and moddability of the engine and Supreme Commander is miles ahead in every one of those catagories.


And that one persons word on the support is from a hardcore CNC 3 modder so thats a pretty big deal.

Maybe you should look at the Supreme Commandre mod forums yourself, any questions people have are being quickly answered and the interest seems to be huge, I mean there are nearly 900 threads on the mod section and there board has only been up and running for a month.

Have a look yourself http://forums.gaspowered.com/

[MercZ]

SAGE Engine, despite being aged, is actually moddable. Just look at modding sites and the multitude of huge mods. Not to mention the engine is a bit more multiplay friendly. Koen's not really that much nowadays, when compared to the likes of Gunrun, Nuker, and the numerous modding teams.

Again, I really don't give a crap. If you want to convince people, why post here? This is not a modding community.

[Derek]

For one thing SupCom's engine is completely different, not everyone wants to make an RTS game with massive maps and zooms, but SupCom's engine isn't good for much else. I also doubt that SupCom will have a lot of total conversions, I may be wrong but I foresee mods that add and modify units being more common. I don't really care much about modding though, so it doesn't concern me in the least.

[SilentSlaughter]

I never said the SAGE engine wasn't moddable Mercz it just isn't even close to the moddability presented in the Supcom engine, after all they SPECIFICALLY built the whole engine literally for the mod community.

And way to stereotype Derek, clearly a post by someone who hasn't played supcom, 1/4th of the games maps are very small, typical sized RTS maps. The gameplay of Supcom lends itself to gigantic and extremely tiny maps.

So don't make up crap like saying big maps are all it's good for because the fact of the matter is the moddability the engine presents is unheard of. And if you wanted to you could easily limit the zoom and literally easily make a small scaled tactical RTS game with the engine, much easier then you could with the SAGE engine as the access you have to the deep ins and outs of the engine is exactly what you would get if you were to license the engine for use in your game, your access isn't limited like it it with the SAGE engine.

[MercZ]

SAGE isn't at all limited in modding access... people seemed to be fine modding it during the Generals years. I honestly see no difference in the modding capabilities, other than the fact Sup-Com will give more Eye Candy for the mods.

I doubt you've ever modded on any C&C game before anyways. I know a good amount of modders, and most of them are pleased with what they can do.

[SilentSlaughter]

Do I have to mod for CnC to know that the CnC modders would have been able to do much more in the past if EA released every single tool they used to make the game to the modding community? Because thats what they are doing for Supcom. Many games these days are moddable, the difference really between games is the amount of sheer work you have to do to get it done.

Let me put it this way, you could make the same drawing in PhotoShop CS 3 as you could in microsoft paint, but it would be MUCH easier to do it in Photoshop!

You could could make the same 3D model in 3D Max 2 as you could in 8, but it's much easier to do in 8

It's like making a full conversion mod for HL when should just do it in HL2 with source.

[MercZ]

Are you saying the level of quality on C&C modding is crappy? I'm sure many of our modders who spend months on their work will be happy to hear that.

Plus, official tools tend to be iffy anyways. I've seen modders make their own, much more superior tools. Good example is with Bethesda. The community made their own model exporters, script editors, and much more without using too much of what Beth was giving.

[SilentSlaughter]

Are you saying the level of quality on C&C modding is crappy? I'm sure many of our modders who spend months on their work will be happy to hear that.

Plus, official tools tend to be iffy anyways. I've seen modders make their own, much more superior tools. Good example is with Bethesda. The community made their own model exporters, script editors, and much more without using too much of what Beth was giving.


Jesus do you even read my posts? I never said the quality of mods were bad I'm saying they would be able to do far more in a far shorter time period if EA released every tool they developed to make the game.

Yes mod communities make there own tools, but to suggest that they can make tools that are on the same level as the ones developers spent years constantly improving is a joke, yes simple tools like importers and exporters is one thing, but well let me give you and example of something I would imagine would require a great deal of work or perhaps be impossible to pull off in the SAGE engine. A few days after Supreme Commander came out Someone had already released a mod that makes the terrain extremely deformable aka holes in the ground via projectiles and of course varying in deepness and width depending on just what hits it. I'm no expert, but I think thats a fairly amazing accomplishment that you wouldn't be able to pull off so fast if at all in the SAGE or hell even the source engine.

[MercZ]

This thread really doesn't serve much purpose... just "OMG SUP COM=SECHS"

Look, I've told you already. I honestly don't care about modding. This isn't a modding site.

[ImageKlonoa]

If your into smaller mods and such like making the UI different or adding a new unit or two and you really like CnC 3 I guess that would be a reason, but when were talking about things like full blown conversion mods and things of that nature what is the point of modding for CnC 3 guys?

Maybe because of the simple fact that there would be people who would want to mod CNC3 instead of SupCom. Having all the developer's tool doesnt mean squat if someones doesnt want to mod that game in the first place.

If its harder to do, it wouldnt matter to them. Everyone's not lazy like you.

[SilentSlaughter]

MercZ if you don't care about mods your in the wrong forum, this site might not be a big mod hot spot, but this section IS for mods so...Klonoa that makes no sense are all, modding with the inferior engine and set of tools because it's harder to do and is for a game you for some reason have a loyalty for :nuts:

[MercZ]

It is for mods, but not for flame-bait.

We have loyalty to the game for the same reasons that you like Sup-Com. The problem is that I can't stand for the fact taht you refer to the modding tools as inferior when they've produced many mods that've won on moddb (Blitzkrieg II, Cold War Crisis, and Tiberian Sun: Rising, just to name a few).

Plus, if Sup-Com has a lively and great modding community, why exactly are you trying to recruit people over? From a C&C community no less.

[ImageKlonoa]

Slaughter, if its possible, you should stop sucking the SupCom developer's bobbly-bits for a little while and take a breather. Seriously.

If their mod community ends up better than CNC3s, so be it, but that doesnt mean every CNC3 fan just HAS to abandon modding the game because SupCom's is better. There will be that guy who wont even touch SupCom code, no matter how much you'd like to "convert" them, just because they have no desire to. That same guy might end up modding CNC3 exclusively.

And you seem to have a loyalty (or fetish) for the SupCom guys, so I guess were about even. But I wont be on my knees expressing it. :wave:

[SilentSlaughter]

Blind loyalty? Speak for yourself, I'm buying CnC 3 for crying out loud! I just wanted to see if anyone here actually had any intelligent reasons for why they would make a full conversion on CnC 3 engine of the Sage engine when to me it makes about as much sense as a professional digital artist using microsoft paint as his main tool for doing his job!

Klonoa I take it your one of the big posters on the EA CnC forums ehh? I love CnC, but the stupidity displayed by the people on that forums is appalling as are your mindless insults, way to show your intellect :dunce:

[MercZ]

If you want to talk about how nice Sup-Com is, create a thread in general. Some of us here like it (we can't play the same RTSs over and over again now, can we?).

[ImageKlonoa]

Klonoa I take it your one of the big posters on the EA CnC forums ehh?

WRONG. As a matter of fact, I've never even registered there. Nice try to put a label on me.

If someone wants to convert CNC3, why wouldnt "because they want to" be a good enough reason for you? And what would keep the guys from using SupCom tools (because they are the greatest things ever conceived according to you) to mod CNC3?

oh yeah, there are professional MS Painters out there. I'm sure they'd love to take that pop-shot at them. Also realize that a bunch of features doesnt make something automatically better than everything else. Perfect example would be Playstation consoles that dont have a "2" on it.

But why are you debating about a mod community for a game that hasnt even been released yet? Thats alot more stupid than anything I've posted here. Note I used speculation in my posts.

[SilentSlaughter]

Lmfao come on man are you serious? Are you SERIOUS?! Are you really that clueless? Can you really be that uneducated or was that a joke? I'm referring to your comment on using the Supcom tools on CNC 3, if you can really figure out a way to use tools made for another games engine on any other game easily your going to make millions :rofl: :lmao:

And no there are not any professional MS painters kid, there are some talented artists who may showoff every now and then using it, but no professional artists would dare use it as a main tool.

[ImageKlonoa]

I KNOW you cant use everything with another game, esp on differening engines. But things involving some sort of 3d modeling are rarely dedicated. If SupCom does have a tool where you can import/export things(which I will not bother looking if they do), guess what other games could use stuff?

And about the whole professional MS Painter thing, what you fail to realize that many professional artists like to find some sort of niche, and stick with that. Will a MS painter be able to do the same things a Photoshop guru can? Not with that program, but their art is appreciated either way. Proof? pop over to deviantart.com.

Professional doesnt always mean some digital landscape that completely blurs the line between reality and fantasy.

Talk down to someone you have a chance with. You're being completely oblivious to everything except your own beliefs, which is a very, very bad thing since you arent right most of the time.

[SilentSlaughter]

The TERM PROFESSIONAL usually refers to someone who makes a living off their work as a digital artist, if you can honestly find someone who makes a living mainly off their digital artwork on that program I will stand corrected, but no one does. Goto ConceptArt.org or any of the big sites and find a pro and ask them if they know anyone making a living mainly off MS paint and I'm sure they will :rofl::lmao::rofl::lmao::rofl::lmao::lol::hyper::nuts: at you.

[Arakane]

The TERM PROFESSIONAL usually refers to someone who makes a living off their work as a digital artist, if you can honestly find someone who makes a living mainly off their digital artwork on that program I will stand corrected, but no one does. Goto ConceptArt.org or any of the big sites and find a pro and ask them if they know anyone making a living mainly off MS paint and I'm sure they will :rofl::lmao::rofl::lmao::rofl::lmao::lol::hyper::nuts: at you.


You make all these "comments" of yours as if you think your
opinion here has some "weight". You actually seem rather full of
yourself, which makes you sound rather small and uninteresting.

While supcom may be a good game, I dont know as I am not
personally interested in it, that fact,or how moddable it is or isnt
can't really matter on a C&C forum. As to C&C mods, there have been
and certainly will be many great ones still to come. Regardless
of how/what you think about it.

It's one thing to say how pleased you are with supcom's modding
support etc., and quite another to come here and use your little
preferences as nothing more than a launch-pad for your own little
agenda/attack which no one other than yourself cares about.

My apologies to the others drawn into this thread, I forgot rule
Number 1 : " Don't feed the trolls". Go away,little troll.


Arakane

[Fenring]

Hey Silent, do us ALL a favor and go away. You're a dumb SupCom fanboy. NO ONE CARES IF THEY SUPPORT MODDING! The C&C community modders have always built their own tools and we work great without EA's support. From Tiberian Dawn to Zero Hour, we have our own tools to mod every engine... Just visit PPM... we're still making tools for RED ALERT 2 and TIBERIAN SUN for crying out loud. Dated engines mean NOTHING.

Also, I intend to work on a couple of total conversions for C&C3, and have no desire to even TOUCH, let alone BUY, SupCom. So why would I do this? Here's your answer: I like modding Command and Conquer games. PERIOD. Very simple and if you can't grasp that... there is no hope left for you.

[AvianKnight]

That just actually shows how loyal and determined supporters C&C fans are. We're given the game we want, though we aren't given the support we need. Determined as we are, we found ways to overcome that, and we did. The C&C modding community is a dedicated, thriving and successful one. We don't need support that much, really. What's the point of an extremely moddable game when no one wants to mod it.

[darkrei9n]

Ummmm. I always thought getting less support was better in certain situations. If your getting more support in a WEEK then seven years. Doesnt that mean the game who gave you a weeks more is buggier?

[SgtRicko]

Ummmm. I always thought getting less support was better in certain situations. If your getting more support in a WEEK then seven years. Doesnt that mean the game who gave you a weeks more is buggier?

Depends. Just look at StarCraft: it's been over eight or nine years since it's release, yet it's still getting patches and updates!

[M2M]

If your into smaller mods and such like making the UI different or adding a new unit or two and you really like CnC 3 I guess that would be a reason, but when were talking about things like full blown conversion mods and things of that nature what is the point of modding for CnC 3 guys?

... trunctucated or something



is it besides the point that you need @ least a blue gene or equivalent row of Playstation 3's to run the game on LOW settings?

lets' mod that first so that it can run on the recommended specs printed on the box before saying this kind of things

[darkrei9n]

And not to mention EALA works with a engine they know works and according to Supreme Commander its a newer engine. New engine usually means buggier stuff.

[Jester Kirby]

I'd never dream of modding cnc 3, lol. I like to mod, but I stick with RA2, simply because it's familer. I don't egfen have cnc3, but if I did Id just play it right on the spot not mod it.

It must really be your passion to wan't to mod a new game such a short time after its release date.

[hmily444]

I played CnC game for many years but I found there missed some units in CnC 3 which appeared in other versions, such as cyborg commando and mammoth MK.II etc.

SO i'd like to mod it!!

[bones2k]

i would but i would do little changes
like wether u want super weapons on or off

^^ and put old buildings from TS for fun:D

[rich19]

Umm...I never said you wouldn't be able to mod CnC 3 or that they weren't going to support it any less then they have with previous games, my point is buddy is that Supreme Commander is offering an unheard of amount of modability that even puts HL2 Source to shame.

This isn't about EA having poor mod support, but Supcoms being far, far beyond anything the mod community has ever seen and knowing that it would be completely illogical to make a full conversion mod using the SAGE engine when you just have so much more available to you with supcom in the mean time.

There is a reason Tibed said they have received more support for modding supcom in a week then they have from EA/WestWood in 7 whole dam years.

Why do a full conversion mod with the SAGE engine that is far more outdated, far less moddable and all around offers far less access and support.

Seriously it seems you would have to be a blind fanboy to use the SAGE engine.

Full conversion mods aren't about the original games, but about the tools, support and moddability of the engine and Supreme Commander is miles ahead in every one of those catagories.

Because I prefer C&C to SupCom. Do you have a problem with that?

[AugustSonereal]

Because SupCom has a horribly boring story anyway.

[Neltharion_Deathwing]

Now, I am a person who owns, and enjoys supreme commander, but C&C 3 will allways remain superior to supreme commander. I don't really care, what you say Silent, because you apparently will refuse to face the truth of the matter.


Supreme Commander has a great engine yess, but that engine has one major problem that will wipe out both its playability and modability for ALOT of people, not everyone has the supercomputer required to run such a powerful game engine.

I myself have downloaded tons of mods for this game, but Sup Com's engine is just much too powerful for my computer, even at minimum.

Alot of people will flock to C&C3 because its fun, and its SAGE ENGINE can be handled by allmost any computer on the market today.

Sup com's engine was an idea that came ahead of its time, because not many computers can handle such a ****ing beast.

[SgtRicko]

SupCom won't be a beast in about 2-3 years from now, you know. And besides, just because a game is an engine beast doesn't mean that people won't mod for it. Just look at FarCry, Quake III, (yes, it was a beast back in its heyday) or The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, and you'll see that high system specs don't hold a lot of people back in truth.

[Neltharion_Deathwing]

I know that, but most people as of NOW will have trouble playing it to its maximum potential, which in my opinion is where a game Truely shines. But once again, thats just my opinion, lol.

[apple23]

First of all, SilentSlaughter, you are being and ignorant, moronic ass and I'm sure everyone here agrees. Most of your points are so invalid or blatantly obvious that I'm starting to think your only purpose here was to tell people how bad CNC3's Modability is and to tell us how much better SupCom's engine is. Buddy, that's not gonna earn you any reputation or any supporters.

CNC3's SAGE engine, as outdated as it is, is still very powerful and equally moddable. We praise to lord for an engine that is better and even more moddable than Yuri's Revenge. Only a blind SupCom fanboy like yourself wouldn't realise that. Supreme Commander's modding possibilities may be larger than CNC3's, but the SAGE engine is powerful enough that the only extra things SupCom's engine can do are just that, extras.

Another thing, this has been mentioned before, SupCom requires a MASSIVE avount of CPU and system power to run SupCom's engine. Most of today's computers can't really play SupCom very well, not to emntion at all. CNC3, on the other hand, has a powerful engine that dosen't require such enormus system specs.

And, with such an new and beastly engine, there comes bugs. Huge bugs. SupCom's moddability will probably be realised as lower then prospected when someone tries something new and bizzare that would be really fun and finds out that the engine has a bug that crashes SupCom whenever that unit is used. All engines have this, even the SAGE engine has some, but with SupCom's engine being really new, people probably haven't really looked at and tested all of the posibilities of teh engine for bugs.

[Rebelmoon]

1st time poster. I have both games, running at max, and I really don't see SupCom as any better to be honest. Having pulled models from both games, CnC3's models are much more detailed and dynamic ingame. My opinion of course.

Cheers,

Rebelmoon

[Rolk]

Topic closed. Flaming. Cut the crap.