Pushing

[Fulcrum]

This was an interesting tactic I stumbled across. I have no idea if its really that effective or not as I"m not that great, but it certainly knocked me and my friend off. Anyway the other player was GDI and basically spammed those sonic tower things. It was brutal. On an unrelated note, how would one post replays? I have the replay but can't remember how to post it.

[Derek]

That strat is called Spidering. Its a nasty and somewhat lame strat that can be very difficult to stop once it gets started. Here is the synopsis of the strat: At the beginning of the game build 3-4 cranes and boom your economy. Keep some anti-tank guns in reserve while quickly teching up, then replace these guns with Sonic Emitters. Start stretching towards your enemy's base with power plants, and whenever and wherever you are attacked, place your Sonic Emitters to defend. Leave the emitters there and build more. Whenever you reach a tiberium field, build two or three refinerys there to harvest it. If your opponent gets aircraft, cancel some of your emitters and replace them with AA turrets.

To fight a spider strat you have two choices: Spider back, or try to counter with something else. If you choose the latter, then your first and foremost priority is to figure out if he is going to spider. To counter a spider you need to move fast, and if you get taken by surprise then you are probably doomed. An early tank rush can be effective, target his cranes and tech structures, you won't be able to hurt his economy enough. After he gets emitters though tanks are just about useless. You should quickly tech yourself and try to get some bombers. With Vertigos or Firehawks target his cranes and tech lab, try to take them out in as few runs as possible, preferrably one, because he will quickly throw up some AA as soon as he see that you have bombers. If you can destroy these targets then you can halt his emitter spam for awhile, giving you a chance to further bomb him (target emitters this time, as well as continueing to destroy any cranes or tech labs that he rebuilds). You can also get artillery to outrange his artillery, but watch out: He can quickly chain together a few powerplants and then drop an emitter in range of your artillery units and destroy them before they can get away. Overall the best strat it probably to keep constant pressure on him from several directions until you can take out his cranes in one run, and then quickly follow up by taking out his tech lab. Then use artillery protected by tanks with continued bombing runs to push back his emitters. You will need more skill then him to win, but fortunately you also have more headroom for improved skill in your strat than he has in his.

GDI isn't the only one that can use this strat though, Nod can use it with Obelisks, you can even charge them with beam tanks to give them up to 600 range, thats more than GDI's emitters or any artillery unit in the game. Scrin can also do this strat with Storm Columns, with the advantage that Columns can attack both air and ground and their storms remain for awhile after they die. GDI's advantage is that emitters can hit multiple targets, and can hit large targets (like Mammoths and buildings) twice.

One final note of interest: Light tanks (Scorpians, Predators, etc.) can actually out run the emitter blast. If you have a small group of these you can run circles around the emitter until they are destroyed. However, he can still rebuild his emitters fast than you can destroy them using this strat.

[SgtRicko]

*SgtRicko Remembers the old days when one could wall their way into the enemy base and then plonk down a barracks*:drool:

BTW Derek, you forgot that Spidering works even better with an MCV on hand at all times behind the defenses in order to help it spread even faster (sometimes the surveyors can work out pretty well too).

[mrchris]

The AI sometimes does this with it's airfields or power plants... :drunk:

[SgtRicko]

The AI sometimes does this with it's airfields or power plants... :drunk:

The comp will actually try to butt in on your Tib turf by sending a emissary along with some escorts to bully you out of your own fields (that, or suicidally send it towards the field IN THE BACK OF YOUR BASE:lol: :rofl: :lmao: )

[red_pr!nce]

Just a thought.

Spidering will be effective immediately when using enemy buildings to build these super defensive structures. :D
How it comes? First, build a Sonic Emitter in your queue, but don't place it yet. Then send in several engineers into the enemy base (with airlift if possible to gain speed). Inside of there, order them to capture as many enemy production structures as possible (especially Refineries, as it will also deny your enemy a good value of cash). With these structures captured, quickly place the Sonic Emitter. It is brutal, yes. :D

It is advised to build Cranes and queue more than one Sonic Emitters, so you can place 2 Sonic Emitters inside the enemy base quickly.

It works on me.

[Derek]

Capturing your enemy's structures like that rarely works. If you succeed then it is a great start for a spider base, but its generally too hard to pull off. I have successfully used engineers to capture enemy structures in two situations:
1. Point black range. When your enemy tries to emissary rush you sometimes you can drop a barracks right beside their buidings, get an engineer out, and take it over before they have time to sell it. This works best when combined with,
2. A Distraction. Keep your enemy occupied with something else and they might not notice the engineer.

However, just waltzing an engineer into their base is high unlikely to succeed in anything more than making them sell a powerplant (for infantry to kill your engineer with).

[SgtRicko]

Another simpler version of this is to build a single crane, then pack up your MCV and drive it to the enemy's base while constructing a two power plants, a refinery, while keeping a barracks and defense turret on hold. Then once you reach the enemy base (that, or start getting harrassed), you should quickly deploy and place the barracks and defensive turrets, and do whatever you can to capture the enemy ConYard and cranes ASAP. If done right, you should be able to really surprise the enemy and hopefully cripple him significantly, if not win the game outright.

(NOTE: It really doesn't matter if you get the enemy's conyard or not: you just need to destroy it, even if it means that it got sold by your opponent or you demolished it yourself.)

[M2M]

Another simpler version of this is to build a single crane, then pack up your MCV and drive it to the enemy's base while constructing a two power plants, a refinery, while keeping a barracks and defense turret on hold. Then once you reach the enemy base (that, or start getting harrassed), you should quickly deploy and place the barracks and defensive turrets, and do whatever you can to capture the enemy ConYard and cranes ASAP. If done right, you should be able to really surprise the enemy and hopefully cripple him significantly, if not win the game outright.

(NOTE: It really doesn't matter if you get the enemy's conyard or not: you just need to destroy it, even if it means that it got sold by your opponent or you demolished it yourself.)

smart players always have n engie in handy to capture your mcv, and they ussually already have an army by the time your mcv has reached the enemys encampment.

[Daishi]

This isn't true. You can usually reach their base before they build their barracks/wf.

[Derek]

Another simpler version of this is to build a single crane, then pack up your MCV and drive it to the enemy's base while constructing a two power plants, a refinery, while keeping a barracks and defense turret on hold. Then once you reach the enemy base (that, or start getting harrassed), you should quickly deploy and place the barracks and defensive turrets, and do whatever you can to capture the enemy ConYard and cranes ASAP. If done right, you should be able to really surprise the enemy and hopefully cripple him significantly, if not win the game outright.

(NOTE: It really doesn't matter if you get the enemy's conyard or not: you just need to destroy it, even if it means that it got sold by your opponent or you demolished it yourself.)
Thats not spidering and its not very effective. A better idea is to build an emissary (GDI can't do this, Scrin can do it but its not nearly as effective) immediately and send it to their base. Deploy it right ouside their field of view and once its done drop some anti-infantry turrets and WFs and start pumping out tanks.

[M2M]

This isn't true. You can usually reach their base before they build their barracks/wf.

both a crane,

when crane is built 1st player packs up mcv and drives to the other side of the map

other player creates powerplant + ref @ the same time (powerplant 7 seconds I think)

then a baracks (another 10 seconds?)

an engie (another 10 seconds?)

so unless someone can get their mcv right on top of the enemy in less then 40 seconds...

besides, the player with the mobile mcv can't built @ twice the speed of the camping player when the mcv is moving, so it will @ least be an equal match when the mcv arrives, maybe even a tilt to the camper

by the way, is a emmesairy faster then the gdi / scrin variant?

[red_pr!nce]

May work effectively against some unprofessional players...

[Daishi]

so unless someone can get their mcv right on top of the enemy in less then 40 seconds... it takes no more than 20 seconds to send a Nod MCV across any 2v2 map. In the meantime, you've teched up to shredder turret and are building steadily. interlock you base with theirs and make disruption towers when they become buildable, make another crane and start spamming laser turrets to knock out tanks and structures alike in their own base. Against an opponent that can't adapt his strategy to deal with you, it's actually quite effective.

[Star Wars Man]

I saw that Spidering tactic last night on an online match last night. I had set up a "Comp Stomp", and he had joined. About 1/2 of the way through the game, he started building a single row of power plants (He was GDI) to the AI's base, building SEs when necessary. That is a pretty nasty tactic, especially if your opponent is unprepared.

[OneWiseSith]

Even 20 seconds is an eternity of down time vs good players. The odds of surprise are remote at best.

[Derek]

Yeah, Daishi, thats not going to work very well at all. You have slowed down your building (only one build que), built a weak economy, and left a vulnerable base. You may be able to get your MCV to his base in 20 seconds, but thats enough time for him to build 1 WF, 1 Ref, or 2 AFs in each build que. Meanwhile you can only build one of the above. You will be raped.

by the way, is a emmesairy faster then the gdi / scrin variant?
GDI's is about half as fast as the other two.

[M2M]

Even 20 seconds is an eternity of down time vs good players. The odds of surprise are remote at best.

it might be a tactic to move your mcv to your exp base, in stead of leaving it @ mainbase

that would be a surprise I guess

[OneWiseSith]

I did what you said M2M playing against my friend LiangHuBBB in a friendly game on Tournament arena. But as Derek stated the extra air field units he had mauled me into economic doom(He was GDI). I just did it to be funny.

[GGdown]

Spidering is out for the next patch, there is no longer a build radius around power plants or barracks, so more expensive and slower to constuct buildings would be needed. I can't see that working.

[M2M]

Spidering is out for the next patch, there is no longer a build radius around power plants or barracks, so more expensive and slower to constuct buildings would be needed. I can't see that working.

it will work very slowly :D