Strategy against Mirage tanks

[peashooter]

Whats the best strategy (as allied side) to use against lots of mirage tanks?

I had today like 4 Battle fortresses with GGIs inside against like 10 mirage tanks. I tried driving away from the mirages while the GGIs shot however the mirages were faster and killed my battlefortresses (I did manage to kill like 8 mirages). Also when the mirages are not movingits hard to get units to shoot on them :)


anyway whats the best units to take care of those mirages and what are the strategies?

[EliteGi]

Prisms and mirages work well, but that is what you'll be up against the majority of the time. Desolators are awesome against mirages but as your allied yourself, you should use mirages and prism tanks (maybe with GGI BF's too). Harriers are a maybe, but unless you already have harriers, forget about that.

[truefeel]

Prism tanks completely own mirages.

[JJFZ3000]

Speaking of Mirage tanks, I just played a Meatgrinder game (RA2) where I got a Mirage tank from a crate and killed off GIs and some IFVs until it got to Elite level. Where it then just became a "tank" sniper. It destroyed half of his vehicles with one shot each, until he figured out which tree it was and rushed it.

[Statalyzer]

Prism tanks completely own mirages.

This is true. Mirages without GGI-BFs or Prisms or at least Grizzlies with them will get owned by Prism Tanks.

[hogo98]

Prism tanks is your best bet. IF you can get an elite Prism tank it can destroy 3-4 in 1 shot Works great.

[Daishi]

Tank Destroyers are cheaper and kill mirages in 2 shots. Or was it 1 shot?

[truefeel]

problem is that you have to manually target mirages. That's not a big deal for units who do splash damage, like the prism tank (b/c mirages are actually very weak an splash damage done by the prism tanks, damage mirages quite well), but units like the tank destroyer have a difficult time to do it.

[hogo98]

Unless the mirages are moving then tank destroyer has a better chance.

[truefeel]

That's the problem: they will move only rarely:p .

[Mercenary]

yup prism tanks own mirages, but also if you opponent does not ahve AA you can make some quick rocketters to take care of his weak armored mirage tanks.

[truefeel]

BFs would also own mirages, b/c of more range and if the mirages give chase, you will atleast kill 5-9 mirages, which makes up for the cost of the battle fortress.

If you are korea, you could also use black eagles. they kill mirages in one shot.

[hogo98]

Korea Would have to use a lot of Micro But that is worth the price as long as you can keep your Eagles Alive. You can Also Use Roko's On them they do decent damage ;)

[truefeel]

They die too quick against IFVs, while you can annoy your opponent by killing the IFVs with one eagle each.

[Corsarus]

err... back to the actual topic of mirages. I realize no one here has discussed an actual strategy, just different units. Needless to say, the environment of the attack would make a huge difference, and who was attacking who would as well.

anyhowz, a good strategy would be to have a good amount of base defenses, and some ifv's or flak tracks.

send the quick units to the mirages, and the mirages will follow while attacking, then send the units to your base and have the base defenses destroy the helpless little enemy tanks.

[Daishi]

No one who is having trouble against Mirage spams is fighting the AI. You're fighting a player with BRAIN CELLS, the kind that owns your base defenses, IFVs, AND Flak tracks with the help of prisms, and then can move their mirages any which way they want. They won't just drive into range of your defenses with their mirages, and they CERTAINLY won't chase your IFVs and flank tracks anywhere unless they plan to corner them. Once again, since we're NOT fighting the craptastic AI, it is NOT a good strategy.

Oh, and by the way, the "different units" involved and how to use them, both of which we covered, are what every "actual strategy" is.

[truefeel]

right on :).

[hogo98]

Agreed The Ai is to Brain Less to fight Fair Games Unless you Can mod the AI And make it use way points in FA2. Then you could make it smarter But heh thats not happening anytime soon.

[Statalyzer]

Black Eagles are a good idea. They are kind of expensive, sure, but a Mirage tank costs just as much as the Eagle! Against Grizzlies, you are taking 2 shots to kill a $700 unit, but against Mirages, you are taking 1 shot to kill a $1200 unit, so Eagles become a lot more useful when the Allied enemy techs up.

[apple23]

Definately eagles or prisms. If the enemy has GGIBF's, other prisms, and/or IFV's then it would not be a good idea to attack them at all unless you have to, but if its just a bunch or mirages laying out in the battlefield go kill them.

Also, make use of and nearby hills/cliffs because if you are attacking from a cliff then the mirages have to go around the cliff to where you entered, by which time you will have already destroyed them all. If it's just a hill, the range bonus is a sufficient advantage against the mirage tanks.

I would also like to point out that you made this is the wrong section. You should have posted this in the RA2/YR Strategies section, but i guess since you are at least in the RA2/YR section your okay.

[truefeel]

Definately eagles or prisms. If the enemy has GGIBF's, other prisms, and/or IFV's then it would not be a good idea to attack them at all unless you have to, but if its just a bunch or mirages laying out in the battlefield go kill them

Use 4 eagles on the BF, if he didn't got lucky with dodging, you killed both the infantry and BF, while you would only loose 1 eagle. Don't do this if he several BFs packed together. If he builds IFVs, make sure you bomb those while they are still with a few. This is very annoying b/c he's building AA and you just destroy it, wasting his cash, his numbers on other units and his time.

Eagles are excellent at killing otherwise good AA units. Many players underestimate that and get pwned just b/c they build AA and it gets destroyed, meaning they need to build it again.

Also, make use of and nearby hills/cliffs because if you are attacking from a cliff then the mirages have to go around the cliff to where you entered, by which time you will have already destroyed them all. If it's just a hill, the range bonus is a sufficient advantage against the mirage tanks.


That's something you always need to do:).

I would also like to point out that you made this is the wrong section. You should have posted this in the RA2/YR Strategies section, but i guess since you are at least in the RA2/YR section your okay.

Well, at dgnf (and many other forums), things get out of hand concerning the right placement of topics: there were alot of topics in the past 'bout general question in the tactics forums ann vice versa. It just something that's not worth to bother about;).

[ghoststalker2004]

Black Eagles are a good idea. They are kind of expensive, sure, but a Mirage tank costs just as much as the Eagle! Against Grizzlies, you are taking 2 shots to kill a $700 unit, but against Mirages, you are taking 1 shot to kill a $1200 unit, so Eagles become a lot more useful when the Allied enemy techs up.
Did you factor in extra airfields and power plants to support them? :thought:

[truefeel]

you don't need to mass them; 4 at a time is more then plenty. Therefore, you do not need more airfields (as you would need it anyway to tech up further).

[ghoststalker2004]

Thanks for the tip.

[Statalyzer]

AFC is something you'll need to build anyway. In fact, if your opponent has mirages and thus a battle lab, you should at least have afc by then unless you are rushing while he teched up and you're about to launch a big ground attack to destroy him.

[truefeel]

If you plan your economy well, you will not be much delayed in teching up. I ussualy make sure that I have 4 miners when I start making 2 eagles. In the meanwhile I make another refinery and when that one is done, I have 5 miners and I'll star making another 2 eagles. Then I either choose between building a battle lab right away or a second WF and then a battle lab.

[shadowofchaos]

problem is that you have to manually target mirages. That's not a big deal for units who do splash damage, like the prism tank (b/c mirages are actually very weak an splash damage done by the prism tanks, damage mirages quite well), but units like the tank destroyer have a difficult time to do it.

It's a pain to manually target them in RA2.... tanks move past them without even firing a single shot.... and the cursor doesn't appear as a target, and so... the few precious seconds I spend holding down the CTRL button get my tanks killed...

[Avapodnaught]

and the cursor doesn't appear as a target, and so... the few precious seconds I spend holding down the CTRL button get my tanks killed...
wow, never realized that, thought it comes up...

[truefeel]

It's a pain to manually target them in RA2.... tanks move past them without even firing a single shot.... and the cursor doesn't appear as a target, and so... the few precious seconds I spend holding down the CTRL button get my tanks killed...

No, it does not. Prism tanks have 10 range, mirages only 6. It only takes half a second to hold control and click. Keep clicking in the wild on the mirage group and you'll win for sure if you had enough prisml tanks.

[Statalyzer]

It's a pain with grizzlies or tank destroyers, but with Prisms you have the range advantage like truefeel said. Also, if there are objects nearby, he's really screwed. Force fire on a tree or building they are right next to, and watch the shots reflect off of it and damage some Mirages even before they are close enough to target directly.

[apple23]

Stat, just so you know, attacking a building nearby would be useless because weapons only shrapnel if attacking a terrain object, a vehicle, or infantry.

[Statalyzer]

I suggest you play skirmish and attack the enemy base with a mass of prisms. Trust me, the prism's beam bounces off of buildings.

You can't use all buildings though, or objects either. For example, trees work, but lightposts don't. IIRC mailboxes and outhouses don't work. I'm pretty sure that none of the overlay works (rocks, etc).

[Avapodnaught]

I suggest you play skirmish and attack the enemy base with a mass of prisms. Trust me, the prism's beam bounces off of buildings.
I think it works on walls and even towers like tesla coils, prism towers, and other small space taking buildings, and some other buildings...

[truefeel]

I suggest you play skirmish and attack the enemy base with a mass of prisms. Trust me, the prism's beam bounces off of buildings.

You can't use all buildings though, or objects either. For example, trees work, but lightposts don't. IIRC mailboxes and outhouses don't work. I'm pretty sure that none of the overlay works (rocks, etc).

Prism Tank their beams cannot bounce off buildings that the players can build, maybe some few civilian buildings. But it doesn't matter much; the 4 range you have more then mirages hould be enough, escpecially when he uses them to attack your prism tanks (he would need to move them and then your prism tanks automatically target them).

[Statalyzer]

If you can extend the 4 cell range advantage up to 6 cells, why not do it?

[truefeel]

Of course you could, but even without it's almost a freewin: mirages vs. prism tanks.

[Statalyzer]

Those might not be the only forces on the map, you'll want to lose as few prisms as possible. Also, maybe your opponent was ahead of you up until that battle, so he's got like 20 mirages coming at your 8 prisms and it's not a sure thing any more.

[truefeel]

Of course, but look it this way: in team game were you have A+S vs. A+S, one allied decides to mass mirages to counter the soviet player. then the other allied player can just happily make prism tanks. Of course, in A vs. A, it's simple: just making a few BFs and massing prism tanks and rocketeers.

[JJFZ3000]

In RA2 as Soviets, Conscripts are quite effective against Mirage tanks. 20 conscripts vs. 1 mirage... :D

[truefeel]

But then again, one tanya is effective against 100 conscripts...

[JJFZ3000]

But then, a combination of units are not supposed to be counter by a single type of unit.

[Cylon Crusader]

Whats the best strategy (as allied side) to use against lots of mirage tanks?

I had today like 4 Battle fortresses with GGIs inside against like 10 mirage tanks. I tried driving away from the mirages while the GGIs shot however the mirages were faster and killed my battlefortresses (I did manage to kill like 8 mirages). Also when the mirages are not movingits hard to get units to shoot on them :)


anyway whats the best units to take care of those mirages and what are the strategies?


Send in dogs or GIs and when the mirages fire at 'em, send in harriers to take out the trees that are firing at the dogs/GIs.

[truefeel]

But then, a combination of units are not supposed to be counter by a single type of unit.

Of course not, it depends on which side you're countering. That's so special about the game: it's most of time not just black and white: you need to mix units to get effective results.


Send in dogs or GIs and when the mirages fire at 'em, send in harriers to take out the trees that are firing at the dogs/GIs.


Like I said above, it's most of the time not black and white; most of the players don't use them to ambush the opponent (as that would normally not work; the opponent will most likely see you moving your mirages and if he doesn't he can always notice them at the rdar, as mirages that are immobile appear dark blue on the radar). He will use the mirages instead to directly attack you. Though I don't see many mirages in Allied war, as an Allied wars mostly turn out in massing prism tanks, a few battle fortresses and many rocketeers.

[Jester Kirby]

Whats the best strategy (as allied side) to use against lots of mirage tanks?

I had today like 4 Battle fortresses with GGIs inside against like 10 mirage tanks. I tried driving away from the mirages while the GGIs shot however the mirages were faster and killed my battlefortresses (I did manage to kill like 8 mirages). Also when the mirages are not movingits hard to get units to shoot on them :)


anyway whats the best units to take care of those mirages and what are the strategies?

Hide your prisim tanks behind your Battlefortresses. The tanks are so lightly armored the prisims will tear them apart. Though if you don;t want damage rocketeers would own a battallion of nothing but mirage tanks.

[truefeel]

And besides, it's a very good trade-off: 8 mirages=8000 credits. One GGI BF= 4000 credits. And considering you make the GGIs at the barracks and the bF at the war factory, it's even a better trade-off concerning the amount of units you have at a certain time (one GGI BF would be made as fast as 2 mirages !).

But I think you can kill with a GGI BF more then 8 mirages. If there's no lag and you do constantly hit 'n run on the mirages, you can kill alot. just target on mirage. on the moment your BF fires, retreat. If he does nothing, he will loose that mirage. if he gives chase, then you can destroy alot of his mirages, maybe even enough to get the BF elite and then your opponent is ****ed, considering an elite BF is then not much slower then a mirage.

[Jester Kirby]

BF hit and run is nothing short of anooying if you know how to stop it. Rocketeers own them considering that use anti tank rockets. or put prisim tanks behind your mirage tanks.

[truefeel]

Again, you're thinking too black and white :p. What if the opponent also uses prism tanks and rocketeers and no mirages ? then you have a problem because you have less prism tanks then he has (because you made for a part mirages instead).

[hogo98]

Again, you're thinking too black and white :p. What if the opponent also uses prism tanks and rocketeers and no mirages ? then you have a problem because you have less prism tanks then he has (because you made for a part mirages instead).

Thats why its good to see what your enemy is doing. If you know that you have the ability to use a certain counter not a mixed one.

[pieman224]

As allied its best to use prisms, tank destroyers or a number of mirage tanks at least 10 percent more than the number of mirage tanks you are trying to destroy

[Statalyzer]

It always helps having a force 10% bigger than the enemy's if you both have the same unit. :)

[truefeel]

As allied its best to use prisms, tank destroyers or a number of mirage tanks at least 10 percent more than the number of mirage tanks you are trying to destroy

Tank destroyers don't help; you'll have to manually target them and that costs alot of time. Going for making mirages then he has is tricky: a) you can't predict if you will be able to actually outproduce him. b) if you do, I advice not to attack; if you do attack, you will have to again manually target him and you'll loose alot of mirages, he only a few.

So that safest option would be only prism tanks, with a few battle fortresses and some jets and many rocketeers.

[Statalyzer]

Tank destroyers don't help; you'll have to manually target them and that costs alot of time

Not if you wait for them to come to you. Unlike Grizzlies/Rhinos, Mirages cant' fire on the move, which removes a TD's biggest disadvantage in mobile wars. The problem is TD's are slower and the Mirages could run around you and slaughter your miners.

A mix of mirages and TD's would probably beat pure Mirages. A mix of TD's and Prisms would definitely do it. It depends on what else besides his Mirage force the opponent has...

[truefeel]

But Tank Destroyers can't either and mirages have more range, I think. The tank destroyers will not get to automatically targetting, even not when attacked.

[pieman224]

But Tank Destroyers can't either and mirages have more range, I think. The tank destroyers will not get to automatically targetting, even not when attacked.


all units automaticaly defend themselves when attacked.

[Statalyzer]

The tank destroyers will not get to automatically targetting, even not when attacked.

Attack-move.