I'm not trying to flame, but did EA put the C&C tag just to get more costumers?

[JJFZ3000]

I mean if the C&C isn't present in the game name, I wouldn't even recognize it as a C&C game! Overall, I think Generals is not a bad game, but it shouldn't be called C&C... and EA copied too many elements from other games into this, like unit upgrades, mobile construction units, and skills for some units...

[Me Myself & Pi]

Umm... What's the point your trying to make in this post?

[Soviet779]

I would agree, its not a proper C&C to me. It shouldve been called something different like Order & Prevail or maybe Dictate & Destroy. Means the same as Command & Conquer without actually being C&C!

[drgNz~]

This arguement is as old as time itself.
Generals/Zero Hour is a great RTS game, better than the previous C&C titles imo (can't comment on tiberium wars as I don't have it). Just because it's not related to the tiberium universe or RA universe doesn't mean it's not a C&C game.
Get_Over_It.

[Zancloufer27]

It uses the Dozer system instead of the MCV one ;p

[El Sol Morado]

Ok, don't quote me on this, because I may be VERY wrong, because it has been a long time since this game came out. With that said, I think that WestWood, had a lot of input on Generals. In fact, I think WW created most of the game while the company was still intact. They had already finished the majority of the game before being absorbed by EA. This only holds for CnC Generals, NOT Zero Hour, which was completely made by EA. Still, for WW input on the game, I think it only fair that they atleast call this one a CnC game.

Now, if you have any problem over naming rights, it should be with the new Tiberium Wars....but I am not trying to start anything...

[Statalyzer]

did EA put the C&C tag just to get more costumers?

Yes.

[Jester Kirby]

Yea, it probably was to get more customers. Would you not have done the same? I mean, they own the rights now so why not?

And, it has the command and conquer basics, being the skirmish and unit commanding and such. Just because it doesnt have GDI/Nod in it or the Allies and the Soviets, doesnt make it a non CNC game. Though I can see where you are comming from as it is VERY differnt from the previous games, but also VERY similar. Just have to look at it from differnt points.

[C4]

I mean if the C&C isn't present in the game name, I wouldn't even recognize it as a C&C game! Overall, I think Generals is not a bad game, but it shouldn't be called C&C... And Generals/ZH would apreciate it. BTW what defines a "pure" CnC game after all?


and EA copied too many elements from other games into this, like unit upgrades, mobile construction units, and skills for some units...
Oh, of course, unit upgrades, mobile construction units, and skills for some units... something a RTS shouldn't have. Damn! :irked:
BTW, i'm surprised u didn't complain about the general points XP system, after all, there are games (RPGs for example) where XP gathering is a reality. Damn it again! :irked: Well, it seems Generals/ZH is just a neat pile of old ideas stolen from other games, to u!... Here's an advice: stop playing it and dedicate yourself to your real games, Hmmm!!!;)
We (those less enlightened than u) will keep playing it on our ignorance, or maybe not, after all, now we know how far from the "good games" we were. Thx!
Maybe is my blindness but for me Generals/ZH chews every other CnC game and spits it out.
can't comment on tiberium wars as I don't have it
Lucky u. It sucks like nothing i've ever seen before (pathfinding and graphics and maybe storyline are the only positive things about it):yuck:

[Zancloufer27]

And, it has the command and conquer basics, being the skirmish and unit commanding and such. Just because it doesnt have GDI/Nod in it or the Allies and the Soviets, doesnt make it a non CNC game. Though I can see where you are comming from as it is VERY differnt from the previous games, but also VERY similar. Just have to look at it from differnt points.

It doesn't have ANY thing other C&C games have. No harvesters, no MCVs, no GDI/Nod or Soviets/Allies. It's a good game, just isn't 'C&C' style;)

[El Sol Morado]

A lot of you are talking about how it lacked specifics from other CnC series. Well, I think that was sort of the idea behind the game. It was suppose to expand upon the CnC universe, not any of the pre-existing storylines. In the sense that it contains fast pace action and gameplay that doesn't require years of practice for one to be proficient at, I'd say it contains some elements worthly of the CnC title. However, I must admit that Generals does lack some CnC trademarks, like a damn creative storyline........and rediculously dramatic, slightly cheesy character acting.

[Daishi]

Since I rate games on how they work and whether they're fun, I can see that aspect of Gen/ZH gameplay is-

1) An improvement from a similar aspect of Yuri's Revenge. (fire-port vehicles, unit experience, secondary supply gatherers)

2) A new way to get something done for the sake of realism (dozers, building capture, multiple build queues) Every such aspect also falls into category 3.

3) An introduced aspect to enhance gameplay, usually an aspect that would have been impossible with the old engine. (rocket deflection, general's promotion, tunnel networks.)

But seriously, just because they added and enhanced everything doesn't mean it's not a C&C.

[Avapodnaught]

Since I rate games on how they work and whether they're fun, I can see that aspect of Gen/ZH gameplay is-

1) An improvement from a similar aspect of Yuri's Revenge. (fire-port vehicles, unit experience, secondary supply gatherers)

2) A new way to get something done for the sake of realism (dozers, building capture, multiple build queues) Every such aspect also falls into category 3.

3) An introduced aspect to enhance gameplay, usually an aspect that would have been impossible with the old engine. (rocket deflection, general's promotion, tunnel networks.)

But seriously, just because they added and enhanced everything doesn't mean it's not a C&C.
well, I also see it in realism, which of course, can't be much in a sci fi game, and of course, Generals is supposed to be army future, but Generals did a poor job, of course, some of it is, but then again, a whole lot more is not, it is not a general scifi basis from something happening that changes history, it is making its own in my opinion, and even this, it has the blandest music of all the series (raII:yr was ok, but with out my fav song that was in the ra and raII introductions..)

[drgNz~]

Generals is supposed to be army future, but Generals did a poor job, of course, some of it is, but then again, a whole lot more is not

Wrong. Generals is suppose to be based on the modern-era, with many of the vehicles [such as the ECM tank, microwave tank, etc] being based on actual models of real vehicles [read that on here somewhere, a post by SgtRicko iirc.]

it has the blandest music of all the series

Oh noes, I don't like the music, therefore this game isn't C&C worthy.
No, just no.

[Avapodnaught]

Wrong. Generals is suppose to be based on the modern-era, with many of the vehicles [such as the ECM tank, microwave tank, etc] being based on actual models of real vehicles [read that on here somewhere, a post by SgtRicko iirc.]



Oh noes, I don't like the music, therefore this game isn't C&C worthy.
No, just no.
Near future, whatever
Gah, mixed messages!!! I just put it in there cuz its music sucked bad ass
finally got something down somewhere for help, u c, cnc games had one other thing, something in earth's history that changed the present, aka., einstein going back in time, tiberium meteor landing in the tiber river (or even kane being in scrin databases:chin:), generals, does not, makes me sick, worst sci fi of the sci fi rts cnc games, gah!!! dozers!!!

[Yayo01]

It doesn't have ANY thing other C&C games have. No harvesters, no MCVs, no GDI/Nod or Soviets/Allies. It's a good game, just isn't 'C&C' style;)


Hmmmm...

Harvesters: Workers, Supply Trucks, Chinooks, Hacker (internet harvesting :p) and Black Lotus (cash hacking a supply center :p )

MCV's = US Dozer, Chinese Dozer since they ARE MOBILE and they CONSTRUCT Stuff and they are VEHICLES (MCV). Workers is a MCI which stands for Mobile Construction INFANTRY. :p

GDI = Merge all the Chinese and US faction
NOD = GLA
Soviet = China
Allies = USA

:p

To me Generals is really similar to every C&C made....and I agree, Generals is the best C&C sofar even if it doesn't have the Sidebar, FMV's and few C&C trademarks. Hmmmm....ZeroHour have an FMV (news reporters anyone?)

[Avapodnaught]

Hmmmm...

Harvesters: Workers, Supply Trucks, Chinooks, Hacker (internet harvesting :p) and Black Lotus (cash hacking a supply center :p )

MCV's = US Dozer, Chinese Dozer since they ARE MOBILE and they CONSTRUCT Stuff and they are VEHICLES (MCV). Workers is a MCI which stands for Mobile Construction INFANTRY. :p

GDI = Merge all the Chinese and US faction
NOD = GLA
Soviet = China
Allies = USA

:p

To me Generals is really similar to every C&C made....and I agree, Generals is the best C&C sofar even if it doesn't have the Sidebar, FMV's and few C&C trademarks. Hmmmm....ZeroHour have an FMV (news reporters anyone?)
yeah, but workers r incredably cheap, did cnc have mobile construction infantry harvesters? say, did they have good campaign? I always think red alert is the hardest, but I say, the ai on brutal can actually tech up in early missions and build sws, never been able to do that b4
who wants cash by harvesting supply docks? lets have it not regenerate, and also, lets have a very odd radar system that one person gets free, lets have a freak bomber that nothing can stop until after it does its damage? lets capture buildings in a manner that isn't rushing unless the enemy just watches it happen?
we allow ships, u just can't move them, use some of them, lets load an overlord into a small train, y not move thru holes like there is some sort of a wormhole and the tunnels r already dug, and the earth just doesn't fall under, lets be able to build more than one sw without capturing the enemies mutiple times,
lets have a humvee capable of tank destruction, lets have black markets that give u money for ever second or so, missile radiation that clears after an extremely short time, how bout tractors that means nothing gainst any other vehicle besides the humvee without rockets? its okay to have a cannon that takes more that five or more shots at the same time for a blazing fire? send an earlier gattling guy to mow down even toxic troopers and make air craft the worst buy
lets just build here without normal limitations, lets have two or three workers blow up a tank, fine by me just send in the emp patriots, lets have lock on lazers that can fire a target far away, lets have a helix that dies to three gattling cannons, or one emp patriot silo, and just moes down all gla has (even quad cannons when it has rocket men inside), lets send men flying in the air by tank cannon, or even flip tanks over without penalty 70% of the time

[drgNz~]

yeah, but workers r incredably cheap, did cnc have mobile construction infantry harvesters? say, did they have good campaign? I always think red alert is the hardest, but I say, the ai on brutal can actually tech up in early missions and build sws, never been able to do that b4
who wants cash by harvesting supply docks? lets have it not regenerate, and also, lets have a very odd radar system that one person gets free, lets have a freak bomber that nothing can stop until after it does its damage? lets capture buildings in a manner that isn't rushing unless the enemy just watches it happen?
we allow ships, u just can't move them, use some of them, lets load an overlord into a small train, y not move thru holes like there is some sort of a wormhole and the tunnels r already dug, and the earth just doesn't fall under, lets be able to build more than one sw without capturing the enemies mutiple times,
lets have a humvee capable of tank destruction, lets have black markets that give u money for ever second or so, missile radiation that clears after an extremely short time, how bout tractors that means nothing gainst any other vehicle besides the humvee without rockets? its okay to have a cannon that takes more that five or more shots at the same time for a blazing fire? send an earlier gattling guy to mow down even toxic troopers and make air craft the worst buy
lets just build here without normal limitations, lets have two or three workers blow up a tank, fine by me just send in the emp patriots, lets have lock on lazers that can fire a target far away, lets have a helix that dies to three gattling cannons, or one emp patriot silo, and just moes down all gla has (even quad cannons when it has rocket men inside), lets send men flying in the air by tank cannon, or even flip tanks over without penalty 70% of the time

Let's shut up.
Everything you mentioned adds to gameplay, which is what Generals/Zero Hour deliver. It doesn't need an awsome story to be an awsome game. That's exactly why Generals/ZH were eligible for clan-wars, and none of the other C&C titles were.

[Yayo01]

yeah, but workers r incredably cheap, did cnc have mobile construction infantry harvesters? say, did they have good campaign? I always think red alert is the hardest, but I say, the ai on brutal can actually tech up in early missions and build sws, never been able to do that b4
who wants cash by harvesting supply docks? lets have it not regenerate, and also, lets have a very odd radar system that one person gets free, lets have a freak bomber that nothing can stop until after it does its damage? lets capture buildings in a manner that isn't rushing unless the enemy just watches it happen?
we allow ships, u just can't move them, use some of them, lets load an overlord into a small train, y not move thru holes like there is some sort of a wormhole and the tunnels r already dug, and the earth just doesn't fall under, lets be able to build more than one sw without capturing the enemies mutiple times,
lets have a humvee capable of tank destruction, lets have black markets that give u money for ever second or so, missile radiation that clears after an extremely short time, how bout tractors that means nothing gainst any other vehicle besides the humvee without rockets? its okay to have a cannon that takes more that five or more shots at the same time for a blazing fire? send an earlier gattling guy to mow down even toxic troopers and make air craft the worst buy
lets just build here without normal limitations, lets have two or three workers blow up a tank, fine by me just send in the emp patriots, lets have lock on lazers that can fire a target far away, lets have a helix that dies to three gattling cannons, or one emp patriot silo, and just moes down all gla has (even quad cannons when it has rocket men inside), lets send men flying in the air by tank cannon, or even flip tanks over without penalty 70% of the time


..... that post gaved me a friggin headache.. What are you friggin talking about?!

I seriously think Generals is a good break from the older C&C Gameplay because the sidebar and the similar gameplay is somewhat boring and the build limit in older C&C's seriously sucks In my opinion.

Also, By removing the build limit and removing the regenerating supply sources opened up new strategies in the game...And the radar system of Generals is actually similar to the older C&C's.

Generals and ZeroHour may not be perfect or match the original C&C's but IMO, C&C Generals (and ZeroHour) is a welcome addition to the C&C Franchise.

Also, If you Hate it so much then STOP PLAYING THE DAMN GAME.

[C4]

Let's shut up.
Everything you mentioned adds to gameplay, which is what Generals/Zero Hour deliver. It doesn't need an awsome story to be an awsome game. That's exactly why Generals/ZH were eligible for clan-wars, and none of the other C&C titles were.

U know drgNz~, it's hardly arguable to explain our point of view to ppl who have other criteria to judge a good game. We must understand that we are in the graphics era, so gameplay, counter-unit-system, and so, mean little (if something) to them.
I just don't understand why complain about ZH when there's the new CnC3 in town, with good cutscenes and storyline, graphics and ... well, that's all. But to some is all that matters. So ppl, let's go play the new real CnC.;)

Also, If you Hate it so much then STOP PLAYING THE DAMN GAME.
Wise words!:|

[Kiefer13]

I'm not trying to flame, but did EA put the C&C tag just to get more costumers?

Short Answer: Yes.

Long Answer: Yeeeeeeeeeessssssssssss....!

I don't mean to sound offensive here, but Generals is not a C&C game. It's a good game, I'll give you that, but It's not C&C. I play it because It's a good game, but If I feel in a mood for C&C I won't be playing generals. :p

Just my two cents. ;)

[Avapodnaught]

Also, If you Hate it so much then STOP PLAYING THE DAMN GAME.
I haven't been playing it, it is a disgrace to me, I regularly play yuris revenge online, but when I played Zero Hour online, I didn't find nearly as fun as tank spam in RaII: Yuri's Revenge, the only reason I'd play it again is because it is the only game in my house that can be played with 3 players on lan, and since the new and much more cnc enjoyable Cnc3 is out, IMO, and in reality, I abandoned it just to play cnc3, but now that it is hard to get a good game going, I may one day play RaII: YR for the heck of, I miss some of my old friends there...
And of course, the simple answer to the thread is yes, I think we can all agree upon that...

[El Sol Morado]

yeah, but workers r incredably cheap, did cnc have mobile construction infantry harvesters? say, did they have good campaign? I always think red alert is the hardest, but I say, the ai on brutal can actually tech up in early missions and build sws, never been able to do that b4
who wants cash by harvesting supply docks? lets have it not regenerate, and also, lets have a very odd radar system that one person gets free, lets have a freak bomber that nothing can stop until after it does its damage? lets capture buildings in a manner that isn't rushing unless the enemy just watches it happen?
we allow ships, u just can't move them, use some of them, lets load an overlord into a small train, y not move thru holes like there is some sort of a wormhole and the tunnels r already dug, and the earth just doesn't fall under, lets be able to build more than one sw without capturing the enemies mutiple times,
lets have a humvee capable of tank destruction, lets have black markets that give u money for ever second or so, missile radiation that clears after an extremely short time, how bout tractors that means nothing gainst any other vehicle besides the humvee without rockets? its okay to have a cannon that takes more that five or more shots at the same time for a blazing fire? send an earlier gattling guy to mow down even toxic troopers and make air craft the worst buy
lets just build here without normal limitations, lets have two or three workers blow up a tank, fine by me just send in the emp patriots, lets have lock on lazers that can fire a target far away, lets have a helix that dies to three gattling cannons, or one emp patriot silo, and just moes down all gla has (even quad cannons when it has rocket men inside), lets send men flying in the air by tank cannon, or even flip tanks over without penalty 70% of the time

Ummmm...ok. I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say. Acually I do, it's just that you're not really adding anything to your argument by saying that. So, you're saying that because Generals adds that stuff, it isn't a CnC game. If anything, half that stuff you mentioned is what MAKES it a CnC game. What the hell do you people want? The same damn game over and over and over and over again? Or do you want a new CnC title with some new ****. It's a totally DIFFERENT storyline in the CnC universe. Expect some new stuff!

Fact of the matter is, if someone'd given me an untititled copy Generals before the game had ever been announced to the public, and I played it, I would think of a CnC game. At its core, Generals is a Command and Conquer game. Just because all the **** on the surface doesn't match every damn thing you guys have seen in the past doesn't make it not a true CnC game.

[Avapodnaught]

Ummmm...ok. I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say. Acually I do, it's just that you're not really adding anything to your argument by saying that. So, you're saying that because Generals adds that stuff, it isn't a CnC game. If anything, half that stuff you mentioned is what MAKES it a CnC game. What the hell do you people want? The same damn game over and over and over and over again? Or do you want a new CnC title with some new ****. It's a totally DIFFERENT storyline in the CnC universe. Expect some new stuff!

Fact of the matter is, if someone'd given me an untititled copy Generals before the game had ever been announced to the public, and I played it, I would think of a CnC game. At its core, Generals is a Command and Conquer game. Just because all the **** on the surface doesn't match every damn thing you guys have seen in the past doesn't make it not a true CnC game.
I personally think that the game would have done just fine being called Generals, but I do admit, it is catchy...
I don't c y Ea thought that this game was cnc necessary, but I do admit that it is an excellent addition to The First Decade, but none the less, its basis is based on actual world conflict that wasn't changed one point in history like the previous games, my point is that I think that it could have been better off if it weren't a cnc game, but IMO, I think Westwood could have done triple what ea did with it:)
Btw, the story line was crap, id rather have almost anything else with a good storyline spight crappy graphics

[El Sol Morado]

I personally think that the game would have done just fine being called Generals, but I do admit, it is catchy...
I don't c y Ea thought that this game was cnc necessary, but I do admit that it is an excellent addition to The First Decade, but none the less, its basis is based on actual world conflict that wasn't changed one point in history like the previous games, my point is that I think that it could have been better off if it weren't a cnc game, but IMO, I think Westwood could have done triple what ea did with it:)
Btw, the story line was crap, id rather have almost anything else with a good storyline spight crappy graphics

Oh, yes. I have to agree with you there. WW would've done a way better job if they'd completely done Generals. Also, you're right about Generals's storyline being very poorly thought out and unoriginal. I have to agree there too.

One really big problem I do have with Generals in its relation to other CnC games is the faction distinctions. I don't really feel like they are really, really different. I dunno, that may just be me. For instance, Yuri, Soviets, and Allies were clearly very different factions; however, China, GLA, and USA don't feel so different to me. Well, atleast not China and USA.

[Avapodnaught]

Oh, yes. I have to agree with you there. WW would've done a way better job if they'd completely done Generals. Also, you're right about General's storyline being very poorly thought out and unoriginal. I have to agree there too.
glad to agree somewhere, always a pleasure:happysad:

[drgNz~]

Play Zero Hour online and you'll see how different each faction [and sub-faction, for that mater] are.
Better yet, play Zero Hour online for 3 - 4 months and you'll realize why it's so much better than previous C&C titles in regards to online gameplay. The decisive factor in a game doesn't come down to who can spam the most tanks the quickest.

[El Sol Morado]

Oh I've been playing it online for quite some time (years). That is just a personal opinion. I am not exactly sure why I don't get the feel of the factions being different but I don't.

[SgtRicko]

Oh I've been playing it online for quite some time (years). That is just a personal opinion. I am not exactly sure why I don't get the feel of the factions being different but I don't.

I sorta agree with you on the USA and China being somewhat similar, but the GLA is one of the most unique factions to exsist in the C&C universe from what I've seen. (well, except Yuri)

[Avapodnaught]

Play Zero Hour online and you'll see how different each faction [and sub-faction, for that mater] are.
Better yet, play Zero Hour online for 3 - 4 months and you'll realize why it's so much better than previous C&C titles in regards to online gameplay. The decisive factor in a game doesn't come down to who can spam the most tanks the quickest.
already tried that, and I found it quite dull, highly disappointed that laser general isn't one of the best armies despite its high defenses...

[drgNz~]

Oh I've been playing it online for quite some time (years). That is just a personal opinion. I am not exactly sure why I don't get the feel of the factions being different but I don't.

Oh, I can only assume you mean that they're both on the "good" side then, meaning there's nothing really unique behind the faction?
I thought you meant that the armies play out similar, which isn't the case :color2:

already tried that, and I found it quite dull, highly disappointed that laser general isn't one of the best armies despite its high defenses...

The armies are only as good as you make them. If you're gonna rate the armies on their defences, then it's no wonder you find the game dull. Believe me, the game's alot more enjoyable when you learn to play properly, and you start playing at a higher level of play with decent players.

[Avapodnaught]

The armies are only as good as you make them. If you're gonna rate the armies on their defences, then it's no wonder you find the game dull. Believe me, the game's alot more enjoyable when you learn to play properly, and you start playing at a higher level of play with decent players.
Of course u could c it that way, but I don't play excactly along the lines of that, if I get a surprise in with a couple of turrets a well sized force and a couple of dozers then start pushing forward guarding stuff as I go along, it works pretty well, but then again, not a lot of people r good starting with little money (I was shocked at first tho... got over it quickly)

[C4]

Of course u could c it that way, but I don't play excactly along the lines of that, if I get a surprise in with a couple of turrets a well sized force and a couple of dozers then start pushing forward guarding stuff as I go along, it works pretty well, but then again, not a lot of people r good starting with little money (I was shocked at first tho... got over it quickly)
already tried that, and I found it quite dull, highly disappointed that laser general isn't one of the best armies despite its high defenses...

Well, this explains everything about your opinion!:rofl:


drgNz~ already gave u excellent answers.
Now and for final sum:

-Generals didn't need the CnC prefix to be a good game (Emperor-battle-for-Dune for example was one of the best EA cnc-like games before Generals. I've played it, modded it and forgot about every previous cnc. And it lacked CnC prefix. Well it was not very popular (???) and probably didn't provide that much income to EA but was very good. Pity that EA have those profit policies)

-If u like tank spam then "Santa as come to town"; CnC3 is right there and it's all about tank and superunit spam (just like your old loved RA2/Yuri). CnC3 is particularly bad to me in many aspects but the absolute worst is the lack of counter-unit-system (something, i see u don't apreciate).

-I can't figure the sense of coming into a ZH forum to say "Hey, i don't like this game at all! any comments? It's not a CnC! So?".
I don't like CnC3 then i don't play it (just played the campaigns to know about the game) and i don't go to a CnC3 forum to say "Hey your game sucks, u morons!".

Sorry if my words are too harsh but i really can't see the point in all of this (we can't change the CnC generals prefix anyway).
Anyway i hope one day u'll see the big picture diferently;)

[Statalyzer]

C4 has a good point with E:BFD, which wasn't C&C either, but they admitted it.

It doesn't need an awsome story to be an awsome game

I agree, but the issue at hand is not whether it's an awesome game or not.

but did EA put the C&C tag just to get more costumers?

Why would EA care about more people wearing costumes?

[Avapodnaught]

-If u like tank spam then "Santa as come to town"; CnC3 is right there and it's all about tank and superunit spam (just like your old loved RA2/Yuri). CnC3 is particularly bad to me in many aspects but the absolute worst is the lack of counter-unit-system (something, i see u don't apreciate).

-I can't figure the sense of coming into a ZH forum to say "Hey, i don't like this game at all! any comments? It's not a CnC! So?".
I don't like CnC3 then i don't play it (just played the campaigns to know about the game) and i don't go to a CnC3 forum to say "Hey your game sucks, u morons!".

What r u talking about for one? They actually have rocket men and many other types of spam and many ways to counter units, omg, u don't know much do u?
Zero Hour is not a true cnc game thats the main thing, it didn't really need to be a cnc game, but as I said, it is a great addition to The First Decade, but I say I do like RaII better cuz I got bored after getting most of those awards...

[drgNz~]

They actually have rocket men and many other types of spam and many ways to counter units, omg, u don't know much do u?

Of course they have them. But it's not like they get used, or are really even needed. RA2's main unit is the tank, and the main counter to that is more tanks.

[Avapodnaught]

Of course they have them. But it's not like they get used, or are really even needed. RA2's main unit is the tank, and the main counter to that is more tanks.
yes they do if u play enough... in this game u have to be clever on what u use... lack of counter unit spam my ass, bikes against unupgraded cannon units (move past for less hits on them), emp buggies, rocket troopers, fanatics, shock troops (definetly better upgraded), against un anti infantry vehicles a wall of those weak scrin units charging at them..., zone troopers (keep moving them away from the tripod... away... harder against stealth avatars unless u buy scanners, but then its almost too late, mammoths r really slow tho...) other tanks, heavy vehicles, against smaller units in larger packs defnetly use a juggernaut (hence it probably will miss less doing better effect, but not just juggernauts) get grenaders, flame troops, shadow troopers, snipers against smaller squads and heavy infantry, gdi or nod commando, apcs with snipers or grenaders (commando says own3d!!! watch vs tanks :), flame tanks against units that won't kill them be4 they get close enuf (better cloaked), venoms, and buzzers to rid of infantry (works well against rocket men all the time) mothership owns all, if u can get an outpost out there in the beginning then do the mother ship thing on the gravity stabylizer u can take out there forces, but I don't think it works against army that kill the building fast enough, but if they don't have anti infantry, he he, just try and sell the building so the units won't come out that damaged and blast the little shock troopers... did it once gainst a comp :lol:
quote me if I missed something

[Daishi]

yes they do if u play enough... in this game u have to be clever on what u use... lack of counter unit spam my ass, bikes against unupgraded cannon units (move past for less hits on them), emp buggies, rocket troopers, fanatics, shock troops (definetly better upgraded), against un anti infantry vehicles a wall of those weak scrin units charging at them..., zone troopers (keep moving them away from the tripod... away... harder against stealth avatars unless u buy scanners, but then its almost too late, mammoths r really slow tho...) other tanks, heavy vehicles, against smaller units in larger packs defnetly use a juggernaut (hence it probably will miss less doing better effect, but not just juggernauts) get grenaders, flame troops, shadow troopers, snipers against smaller squads and heavy infantry, gdi or nod commando, apcs with snipers or grenaders (commando says own3d!!! watch vs tanks :), flame tanks against units that won't kill them be4 they get close enuf (better cloaked), venoms, and buzzers to rid of infantry (works well against rocket men all the time) mothership owns all, if u can get an outpost out there in the beginning then do the mother ship thing on the gravity stabylizer u can take out there forces, but I don't think it works against army that kill the building fast enough, but if they don't have anti infantry, he he, just try and sell the building so the units won't come out that damaged and blast the little shock troopers... did it once gainst a comp :lol:
quote me if I missed something

We're talking about RA2, stupid.

And the only reason the main unit of C&C3 isn't the tank just like in RA2 is because they heard the outcries of ZH players that wanted more variety in each game.

[C4]

We're talking about RA2, stupid.

And the only reason the main unit of C&C3 isn't the tank just like in RA2 is because they heard the outcries of ZH players that wanted more variety in each game.

We're not talking only about RA2 Daishi, at least i mentioned cnc3. Anyway, cnc3 main unit still being the tank and even more spammable.

quote me if I missed something
Ok, here it goes!
yes they do if u play enough... in this game u have to be clever on what u use... lack of counter unit spam my ass, bikes against unupgraded cannon units (move past for less hits on them), emp buggies, rocket troopers, fanatics, shock troops (definetly better upgraded), against un anti infantry vehicles a wall of those weak scrin units charging at them..., zone troopers (keep moving them away from the tripod... away... harder against stealth avatars unless u buy scanners, but then its almost too late, mammoths r really slow tho...) other tanks, heavy vehicles, against smaller units in larger packs defnetly use a juggernaut (hence it probably will miss less doing better effect, but not just juggernauts) get grenaders, flame troops, shadow troopers, snipers against smaller squads and heavy infantry, gdi or nod commando, apcs with snipers or grenaders (commando says own3d!!! watch vs tanks :), flame tanks against units that won't kill them be4 they get close enuf (better cloaked), venoms, and buzzers to rid of infantry (works well against rocket men all the time) mothership owns all, if u can get an outpost out there in the beginning then do the mother ship thing on the gravity stabylizer u can take out there forces, but I don't think it works against army that kill the building fast enough

First, Cnc3 lacks a good damage system (key buildings are made of straw) and a bad money/time ratio which makes it very fast paced, yes, but takes depth of the game. But this is mho!
Infantry is COMPLETELY useless (at least until v1.04) and any of this strategies u mentioned can be crushed, guess with what, upgraded tanks and light aircraft (both spammable to hell) and mechs! Just take a look of a replay between two good players and count how many rax u'll see in the whole game.
In fact, i'm yet to understand what means "strong vs vehicles and buildings weak vs infantry" on a tripod when it can kill an entire infantry squad with a shot. Why not just say "strong vs everything" just like the scudstorm:chin:.

...but if they don't have anti infantry, he he, just try and sell the building so the units won't come out that damaged and blast the little shock troopers... did it once gainst a comp :lol:

:lol: Ever noticed infantry do ridiculous damage to shock troopers? Another example of the good counters the game have.:lol:

About the first decade, i would prefer having only Generals/ZH alone since it's the only thing i do play from there. Now it's getting harder to find a lone ZH disk.:\

[Avapodnaught]

We're not talking only about RA2 Daishi, at least i mentioned cnc3. Anyway, cnc3 main unit still being the tank and even more spammable.


Ok, here it goes!


First, Cnc3 lacks a good damage system (key buildings are made of straw) and a bad money/time ratio which makes it very fast paced, yes, but takes depth of the game. But this is mho!
Infantry is COMPLETELY useless (at least until v1.04) and any of this strategies u mentioned can be crushed, guess with what, upgraded tanks and light aircraft (both spammable to hell) and mechs! Just take a look of a replay between two good players and count how many rax u'll see in the whole game.
In fact, i'm yet to understand what means "strong vs vehicles and buildings weak vs infantry" on a tripod when it can kill an entire infantry squad with a shot. Why not just say "strong vs everything" just like the scudstorm:chin:.
:lol: Ever noticed infantry do ridiculous damage to shock troopers? Another example of the good counters the game have.:lol:
About the first decade, i would prefer having only Generals/ZH alone since it's the only thing i do play from there. Now it's getting harder to find a lone ZH disk.:\
Well for one, a good mixed spam can counter tank spam by itself, and a tripod can not fire upon air units, so it has to have back up, and of course, what did u ******* expect? that a 300 dollar unit would kill a 3000 dollar tripod, the squads that do die against it that fast are very unreliable, who would use them against a tripod? Tripods r powerful, but not invinceable, u could beat them with an army of rocket soldiers and still have most of ur money after it tries to squash them, but I'd use rocket units to take our anti air units around it while some orcas or bombers take out the tripods, higher armored units will survive against a tripod well unless it tries to squash them, and fanatics and other close up units with penalties as I said r good aganst units that can't destroy infantry fast enough,
on the contrary, infantry can be hell usefull, like teching up fast to flame infantry to take out all infantry rushes that u may incounter, and they also r good against obelisks and structures, shadow troopers help weaken an enemies economy if u get enough structures before they start spamming anti infantry enplacements, rocket soldiers can be used to take out units like weak tanks quickly, and with other tank units firing it takes the fire off of them, commandos r to be used for enemies who leave open a crawl space, they r good against destroying unguarded sonic emitters (not a direct run...), snipers can be stealth attacks to bomb their base from the inside, infantry do make good use of guarding an area fast in the beginning too...
And I love the fact that Ea is putting much more effort into this unlike genrals, fixing exploits and making it a little more balanced and such, and more and more maps keep making it in, pouring in fast everywhere!

And I just love Ra play because im not one of those people who cheats, I am a person who plays for fun with people I know, sharing strategies is harder to do in Generals cuz noone there seems to give a **** cuz my lower than others 'rank', in Cnc3, I play for the sake of it being truer to the cnc saga!

[C4]

Well for one, a good mixed spam can counter tank spam by itself, and a tripod can not fire upon air units, so it has to have back up, and of course, what did u ******* expect? that a 300 dollar unit would kill a 3000 dollar tripod, the squads that do die against it that fast are very unreliable, who would use them against a tripod? Tripods r powerful, but not invinceable, u could beat them with an army of rocket soldiers and still have most of ur money after it tries to squash them, but I'd use rocket units to take our anti air units around it while some orcas or bombers take out the tripods, higher armored units will survive against a tripod well unless it tries to squash them, and fanatics and other close up units with penalties as I said r good aganst units that can't destroy infantry fast enough,
on the contrary, infantry can be hell usefull, like teching up fast to flame infantry to take out all infantry rushes that u may incounter, and they also r good against obelisks and structures, shadow troopers help weaken an enemies economy if u get enough structures before they start spamming anti infantry enplacements, rocket soldiers can be used to take out units like weak tanks quickly, and with other tank units firing it takes the fire off of them, commandos r to be used for enemies who leave open a crawl space, they r good against destroying unguarded sonic emitters (not a direct run...), snipers can be stealth attacks to bomb their base from the inside, infantry do make good use of guarding an area fast in the beginning too...

I understand your lovely vision but in a real multiplayer game those mixes u suggest will barely work against a mass of those units i mentioned above. See some replays and u'll see what i mean.
And i was talking about rocket infantry before, of course, since rifles just don't do damage to anything but other light infantry.

And I love the fact that Ea is putting much more effort into this unlike genrals, fixing exploits and making it a little more balanced and such, and more and more maps keep making it in, pouring in fast everywhere!
I really hope u're right about this. I don't play CnC3 'cause there are many things in the game i disagree but i fell happy by knowing that the game improves and EA gives it a care they didn't into ZH (and it deserved it).

And I just love Ra play because im not one of those people who cheats, I am a person who plays for fun with people I know, sharing strategies is harder to do in Generals cuz noone there seems to give a **** cuz my lower than others 'rank', in Cnc3, I play for the sake of it being truer to the cnc saga!
That's what is expected from any player in any game. Honesty, fair-play and will to improve no matter the rank. A compliment to u.;)

[Avapodnaught]

I understand your lovely vision but in a real multiplayer game those mixes u suggest will barely work against a mass of those units i mentioned above. See some replays and u'll see what i mean.
And i was talking about rocket infantry before, of course, since rifles just don't do damage to anything but other light infantry.


I really hope u're right about this. I don't play CnC3 'cause there are many things in the game i disagree but i fell happy by knowing that the game improves and EA gives it a care they didn't into ZH (and it deserved it).


That's what is expected from any player in any game. Honesty, fair-play and will to improve no matter the rank. A compliment to u.;)
well, if u can quickly pump out some zone troopers u can 'can' any predator tank rush, they would have to mix it with snipers and grenaders to shoot down the zone troopers, I mean, heck, the tanks r strong, but zone troopers r fast and nearly invinceable to preds and scorps alone, just like shock troopers with upgrades or my favorite, fanatics with extra health!!!, attack one big blog of preds and it whoops ass!!! don't use it when some tank is close to ur barracks, blows the hell out of it when they come out... I would post some good rep upon that last remark, but right now... it won't let me...

[Derek]

Thanks for holding down for fort while I was on vacation, drngz.

To answer the original question: No.

If you think Generals is not a CNC game, then you have never played a Warcraft or AoE game, or any other RTS other than CNC for that matter. Its not about MCVs and Dozers or harvesting from fields versus central locations, thats like argueing that Counter-Strike is a sequel to Doom because they both have a shotgun. Generals and ZH actually play much more like a CNC game than any other RTS game, only much better because they took the best parts of other games. Generals was made by essentially taking the true core of CNC, fast semi-realitic gameplay, and combing it with elements that worked in more successful games like the Craft games and AoE, such as builder units. The result was hands down the best RTS ever made. Instead of comparing Generals to CNC games and wondering why Generals is called a CNC game, we should be comparing other CNC games to Generals and wondering why we haven't stripped them of their CNC titles yet.


And on the subject of CNC3, its much better now that 1.05 is out, and infantry are useful, its still a long ways from ZH though.

[General Kane Nash]

Thanks for holding down for fort while I was on vacation, drngz.
To answer the original question: No.
If you think Generals is not a CNC game, then you have never played a Warcraft or AoE game, or any other RTS other than CNC for that matter. Its not about MCVs and Dozers or harvesting from fields versus central locations, thats like argueing that Counter-Strike is a sequel to Doom because they both have a shotgun. Generals and ZH actually play much more like a CNC game than any other RTS game, only much better because they took the best parts of other games. Generals was made by essentially taking the true core of CNC, fast semi-realitic gameplay, and combing it with elements that worked in more successful games like the Craft games and AoE, such as builder units. The result was hands down the best RTS ever made. Instead of comparing Generals to CNC games and wondering why Generals is called a CNC game, we should be comparing other CNC games to Generals and wondering why we haven't stripped them of their CNC titles yet.
And on the subject of CNC3, its much better now that 1.05 is out, and infantry are useful, its still a long ways from ZH though.
Yout got it, also we love to see a modern-day military game instead of wacky elves/orks/dwarves/undead/naga/gobling creeps going around your screen and doing 20 of damage in a game where most of the units got +500hp, what a crap, I love to see a unit killed in two shoots!

[Cylon Crusader]

Ok, don't quote me on this, because I may be VERY wrong, because it has been a long time since this game came out. With that said, I think that WestWood, had a lot of input on Generals. In fact, I think WW created most of the game while the company was still intact. They had already finished the majority of the game before being absorbed by EA. This only holds for CnC Generals, NOT Zero Hour, which was completely made by EA. Still, for WW input on the game, I think it only fair that they atleast call this one a CnC game.

Now, if you have any problem over naming rights, it should be with the new Tiberium Wars....but I am not trying to start anything...


Well you may be right but westwood officially admited that the next CNC ame after yuris revenge was going to be a tie in with the red alert and tiberium universe, but then EA came in and made an entirely new universe with generals, therefore messing everything up.

[Kiefer13]

I think one of the main reasons ZH isn't a C&C is that It dosn't link into the other games really. It would have been cool if Kane showed up at the end of ZH like he does in RA. Mabye he was funding the GLA and shows up at the end of their campagin?

Annother thing that really annoys me is the lack of MUSIC. This is part of what makes C&C C&C! I suppose this rant can also be leveled at C&C3. I mean come on EA, couldn't have have just put in the old tracks for C&C and TS? You didn't have to even mae any new ones. But no. :mad:

[Zancloufer27]

ZH music was actually okay, and I like how it was themed for each side.

[Derek]

I think one of the main reasons ZH isn't a C&C is that It dosn't link into the other games really. It would have been cool if Kane showed up at the end of ZH like he does in RA. Mabye he was funding the GLA and shows up at the end of their campagin?
Don't post.

[Camel]

Don't post.

:rockbrow:He has as much right as you to post what he likes on these forums, so stop being an ass.....:squint:

[Daishi]

I think one of the main reasons ZH isn't a C&C is that It dosn't link into the other games really. It would have been cool if Kane showed up at the end of ZH like he does in RA. Mabye he was funding the GLA and shows up at the end of their campagin?

Would have been pure blasphemy to the franchise.

What makes it a part of the series is not the timeline. Have you ever played Final Fantasy? All you need is for the game to play out the same way, and that's the only link that matters. Not storyline, not nods to the rest of the series. It's a spin-off, like Red Alert or Age of Mythology. It only has to play out like the other games.

If Tiberium Twilight had come out in sequence to TS and played just like Supreme Commander, I would personally not have called it a true C&C because it played so differently.

Annother thing that really annoys me is the lack of MUSIC. This is part of what makes C&C C&C! I suppose this rant can also be leveled at C&C3. I mean come on EA, couldn't have have just put in the old tracks for C&C and TS? You didn't have to even mae any new ones. But no. :mad:

There is music, and it's fitting music and just because it's different from that of the last few games doesn't mean it's garbage. :|

[SgtRicko]

They could have at least put in some faction specific music, cause the only variant that effects it right now is the zone you're in, that's it.

[C4]

Instead of comparing Generals to CNC games and wondering why Generals is called a CNC game, we should be comparing other CNC games to Generals and wondering why we haven't stripped them of their CNC titles yet.
Well said!


And on the subject of CNC3, its much better now that 1.05 is out, and infantry are useful
I've been reading the 1.05 news and i believe it made radical changes to improve the usefulness and counteruse of many units. I seems good news, but i keep some doubts. In time we'll see how deep those changes were.

Hey Avapodnaught, some of those strategies discussed above may have a point now. I'll try to play it a little bit to test for myself and watch some reps to have an idea.

its still a long ways from ZH though.
IMHO, There are many aspects of the game which won't let'em be alike and will always keep a pit between them.
BTW, Off topic, if there's a new game to take in consideration (and rivalize with ZH) it looks Starcraft 2. I'm really curious about it and hope my old Dx9 cards hold the challenge...:rolleyes:

I think one of the main reasons ZH isn't a C&C is that It dosn't link into the other games really.
Isn't ???

It would have been cool if Kane showed up at the end of ZH like he does in RA. Maybe he was funding the GLA and shows up at the end of their campagin?
Hey man, u can always write a book. And u can get the story even thicker, like the Soviets selling the old arsenal to the GLA to fund a new RA3 where Kane should be Tanya's (or even better Ltn EVA's) lover to grant access to USA intel. Later we should find that Romanov was Kane's grand in a secret Chronovoyage and his long lost brother is Blanka (sorry wrong game!).:hyper:
Well this were mere ideas that i have when i'm playing ZH and crying for its lack of a deep story.:rolleyes:

About the music it is as Zan said, pretty well as it is and for the record, i have a "little" mania about games soundtracks and quotes, which i collect religiously (those i think particularly good), so as someone who have a wide fan for comparison and despite ones tastes i can't see (or hear) where those previous cnc games were musically that better, if better! In fact there are games who possess THOSE great musics and i don't count CnC among them.

[Statalyzer]

There are dumber things that could happen on earth than trying to mix the Generals "storyline" with the rest of the C&C storyline. But not a whole lot of them. It's like oil and water, they don't mix.l

You think Generals is not a CNC game, then you have never played a Warcraft or AoE game, or any other RTS other than CNC for that matter. Its not about MCVs and Dozers or harvesting from fields versus central locations, thats like argueing that Counter-Strike is a sequel to Doom because they both have a shotgun. Generals and ZH actually play much more like a CNC game than any other RTS game, only much better because they took the best parts of other games.

By that logic, E:BFD is a CNC game, in fact pretty much any RTS made by EA is a CNC game.

[Derek]

By that logic, E:BFD is a CNC game, in fact pretty much any RTS made by EA is a CNC game.
I think its pretty obvious that E:BFD was just a CNC game with a new Dune coat of paint, which is not a bad thing. However every RTS EA has made does not fit the bill of a CNC game, BFME and BFME2 were much different from CNC games, especially considering their fantasy and low-tech (swords etc.) settings. You'll notice I said that CNC games are relatively fast paced and semi-modern, neither of which describe the BFME games.

[C4]

There are dumber things that could happen on earth than trying to mix the Generals "storyline" with the rest of the C&C storyline. But not a whole lot of them. It's like oil and water, they don't mix.

I'm sure u've got my sarcasm!!:D