Just 10k??

[Jester Kirby]

I need some major advice....how do you people manage just 10,000 in the start of a game. I start building and suddently I relize i have $100 and there's a rush in my base.

Could everyone maybe give me some examples of how they start their base or make a rush on that kind of money even. :wtf:

[Corsarus]

I need some major advice....how do you people manage just 10,000 in the start of a game. I start building and suddently I relize i have $100 and there's a rush in my base.

Could everyone maybe give me some examples of how they start their base or make a rush on that kind of money even. :wtf:
multiple harvesters simoultaneously mining from several seperate resource sites... or maybe they are just really skilled. Seriously, a long-time player without any knowledge could easily crush a bad player with infinite knowledge.

[Me Myself & Pi]

Well I play Laser Generals, so I'll tell you what I do.

First I build a dozer & send my given one to build a power plant between the supplies & my command center. I send my first dozer to build a barracks, then send rangers off to the techs reserching the capture upgrade right after that.

I never sell me command center for a number of reasons. First, I can't stand playing without a radar or satellight scan, you lose $1,000 rebuilding your command center later, you have to wait for it to build when you've got to rank 3, & you have a risk of losing your dozers.

After my barracks is finished I send my second dozer off to another supply dock to build a barracks. After the power plant is finished, I send the dozer to build a supply center a good distance away because resorce production doesn't decrease with two chinooks within that distance.

After that, I build a war factory with my first dozer & with my incoming resorces, I build humvees with a few missle defenders & a ranger in each.

After capturing the techs I build a supply center at the other supply dock with my second dozer.

I usally don't attack until I have two humvees with infantry in side, an avenger, & 4 laser tanks.

[Daishi]

Which faction are we talking here? This is how the early game goes.
1) sell your command center - you get an extra 1000 that you can use to quickly expand and make starting units with less economic stress. This also, means you will have to guard your dozers very well. There's no reason to keep your command center if you're GLA or if you're against a China.

2) Expand - As any faction you need a strong economy, and will fall behind if you don't grab a second supply source early on. With USA, it's possible to survive on a single supply center with extra chinooks, but otherwise you'll need to send you dozers two ways. Triple supply is devastatingly good if you turn all the extra cash into an advantage, but is not a good opening move because it will slow down your unit output early on.

3) Protect your expansion - try boxing in your gatherers with structures as GLA or China to prevent enemies from smashing into them. Make a tunnel, a factory, or SOMETHING after you make your expansion supply center, or your gatherers will be in danger from the enemy rush.

4) Harass - You want to get something on their side of the field fast, and in the meantime defend against whatever they'll send at you. Since you're aiming for his supplies or war factory, you want something that can either hurt their gatherers or structures. Against USA, use get anti-air over there, against GLA, get a cheap vehicle like an ambulance to run the workers over, and against china, get some anti-vehicle units. Remember that against the GLA, you'll have workers building tunnels on your flanks. You want to get rid of these tunnels before they can grow into a real pain. As the GLA, you can stop these tunnels with terrorists in cars, and as the USA, you can load rangers in chinooks (fast) to quickly hunt the oncoming workers. Usually, the enemy will abandon the unfinished tunnel to save cash, and GLA will have lost an element of map control.

GLA can also use technicals loaded with either RPG troopers or terrorists. Aim for his dozers and supplies. You can optionally bring a worker along and start a nearby tunnel. USA also has the MD drop, most often seen in USA mirrors, which involves MDs getting ferried to any spot in the enemy base.

5 - Defend. While you're fiddling with his plans, you also need to keep him from wrecking your own. This is easy, just fight him off with more of the same thing you're using to harass. Against USA

When fighting Inf or USAF, your opening moves may differ. This is all BASIC, I can't go into much detail unless you give me a matchup.

[drgNz~]

Well I play Laser Generals, so I'll tell you what I do.

First I build a dozer & send my given one to build a power plant between the supplies & my command center. I send my first dozer to build a barracks, then send rangers off to the techs reserching the capture upgrade right after that.

I never sell me command center for a number of reasons. First, I can't stand playing without a radar or satellight scan, you lose $1,000 rebuilding your command center later, you have to wait for it to build when you've got to rank 3, & you have a risk of losing your dozers.

After my barracks is finished I send my second dozer off to another supply dock to build a barracks. After the power plant is finished, I send the dozer to build a supply center a good distance away because resorce production doesn't decrease with two chinooks within that distance.

After that, I build a war factory with my first dozer & with my incoming resorces, I build humvees with a few missle defenders & a ranger in each.

After capturing the techs I build a supply center at the other supply dock with my second dozer.

I usally don't attack until I have two humvees with infantry in side, an avenger, & 4 laser tanks.

And that's why you fail at the game.

Daishi pretty much summed it up. Basically, per faction:
USA: Power, Supply(sec), Supply(pri), Rax, WF
China: Power, Supply(pri), Supply(sec), WF(pri), WF(sec)
GLA: Rax/Supply(pri), Supply(sec), Tunnel, AD(usually pri, although Eficko build .. :yummy:), More tunnels

[Me Myself & Pi]

What makes you think I fail at the game?! I'll have you know that I win twice as much as I lose!

[drgNz~]

And I spose your wins are all clanwar games, against players like Blind, Eternal, Human1ty, Tae1, ^General and the like?

My point is, you may win, but at what level of play? The tactics you displayed in your previous post wouldn't win against any decent player who can play properly. Heck, the fact that you admitted you can't play without radar is enough for me to call you a n00b. Let's have a game some time :)

I'm not saying that you can't play the game the way you want to play it, but ultimately, it is a bad way to play, and it shouldn't be spread upon players looking for valid advice.

Have a nice day.

[Me Myself & Pi]

Mabey Daishi & yourself are right. But, this strategy I use only fails me 1 out of 3 games on average. I don't play in clans, just random players on generals online.

If we do play a game together, then I'd like to know your stats first. My current stats are 295 wins to 142 loses with 14 disconnects.

[Daishi]

Stats mean nothing, not in ZHOL, not in any C&C to this day.

And I find it unlikely that your strategy will work in a standard no-rules game.

[Me Myself & Pi]

This is how I play: I use the base strategy above with random player on the internet in no rules' games. I'll tell you what, I'll start saving some replays & upload them here & I have about 5 good games.

My strategy differs on maps that have lots of techs. Like Sand Serpant, Desert Fury, Leipzig Lowlands, etc... I usally go for the techs first & then build a war factory once I get them.

[drgNz~]

From my three acounts [Mr_hahn666, dicemaenz~ & blindsidE-]:
632 games
409 wins
204 loses
19 disconnects

When are you free for a game?

[yurihomer]

daishi is right, its not goan work. i can prove it to you.

by the way, i got 3 commander in chief and 1 general account all with 80% ish winning. so stats is not a problem for me.

[Me Myself & Pi]

Good grief Yurihomer! Don't you do anything else besides play C&C?!

Anyway, I've uploaded 6 replays that I just played in order. But I'm afraid that I didn't play anyone better then me. So I won all 6 games.

DrgNz~, you look just as good as I am. I would like to play you, but I have a problem with my internet. I play over our wirless network & it has a softwere problem. For some reason it kicks me off when within entering 1 to 10 rooms, or a player leaving & entering a room that I'm in. When it does kick me of it says "Lost connection with C&C Generals Zero Hour Online". I know it's not the connection because I can log right back on after words. Now this isn't a problem when playing a game. It runs smoothe after starting one. The problem is starting one. It does work when I'm connected directly to the DSL line, but no if the internet goes through the wirless. Even if I connect a cable to it. My dad doesn't want my in his office (where the DSL line is.) I usally can get quick matches going though.

But, it does work on my neighbors wirless. But it's far away & I sometimes lose connection with it.

We can try to play a game tomarrow at 2:00pm (MST). I'll first start using our neighbors & if I get disconnected, then I'll try our wirless & see if I can get a game going without getting kicked off.

[yurihomer]

Good grief Yurihomer! Don't you do anything else besides play C&C?!
yea, all i do is play zero hour 24/7 and i am still not top player.;)

[drgNz~]

I can't play you any time soon, I'm out from tomorrow, thursday & friday but I should be available on the weekend.

mr_hahn666@hotmail.com, and msg me when you're up for a game [provided I'm on my comp :)]

EDIT: I just watched your replay pack, quick summary:

First & Second game; Your opponents sucked, and you could finished the game MUCH quicker if you had gone an easy MDvee BO and attacked earlier instead of waiting for a superior attack force.

Third game; This guy sucked too; he had map control, yet he didn't attack you. Once. He was building a string of black markets before he even had units on the field.

Fourth game; Seemed like no-rush 15 :/ The guy seemed more concerned about making a pretty base with adequate defences rather than actually attacking you. He could have held onto his supplies near the city if he had decent map awareness and got out a toxin tractor earlier. You could have gone tunnel hunting once you got S&D with a couple of vees & an ambo.

Fifth game; Not really worth a comment. Your opponent had [I]ONE worker collecting supplies, and his supply center was about 7 CC's [in length] away from the supply depot. In the end, he quit because he had no money & 4 buildings [before you could even attack].

And please, PLEASE, start playing Tournament Desert.

[SgtRicko]

And please, PLEASE, start playing Tournament Desert.

Don't listen to him: play Twilight Flame instead, it's way better!:D

[Daishi]

...if you're playing 3v3 or possibly 2v2, then yes. TD is THE 1v1 map though.

[Me Myself & Pi]

Well, I took Tournament Desert off my play list because all of the really good rushers play that map. & a lot of the time I can't hold them off!

I really don't like to rush early on with humvees & infanty. It's more fun building a good attack force & then attacking! I play this game to have fun, completly to win. I wish I played someone better then me in one of those game, but I didn't. My current win streat is about up to 7 right now.

[Daishi]

Gonna shorten your post a bit...

Well, I took Tournament Desert off my play list because all of the really good rushers players play that map. & a lot of the time I can't hold them off!

I wish I played someone better then me in one of those game, but I didn't.
Since "rusher" is a newbie term for proper player, it strikes me as odd how someone wishes they would play someone better and still manages to shun TD.

I'm gonna go with drgNz on this one. Play TD, and play it for most of your 1v1s. Start a new account if stats mean anything to you, because you're going to suck at first, but understand that TD is the best way to improve yourself to a competitive level.

[drgNz~]

Well, I took Tournament Desert off my play list because all of the really good rushers play that map. & a lot of the time I can't hold them off!

I really don't like to rush early on with humvees & infanty. It's more fun building a good attack force & then attacking! I play this game to have fun, completly to win. I wish I played someone better then me in one of those game, but I didn't. My current win streat is about up to 7 right now.

If you want to play properly:

Start playing TD
Custom Matches -> Host your own game on TD [or if your internet prevents, join a TD game]
Try to join games with any clan players you see [regardless of their stats]
Save replays where you lose/get slaughtered and learn from them
Start playing other armies

[Jester Kirby]

Nice advice, I havent been able to get on the forums revently so I am just now posting. :P

I usally play as USA, the other factions are very good in their own ways, I just don't like the tactics of the other factions. I like the laser general, good defense and his laser tanks arnt half bad, if not then normal USA. So if you wanna gimmie some detail on those Daishi that would be great. :)

ooo also....air force generals...they own me every time! (cept once but he wasn't a rush player and was afraid of my laser turret) anyway, some adsvice on how to defend against them....:dismay:

Just seems I'm always running out of money and then there are raptors up in my base.

Just some advice....or a replay of fighting a good air force person. (And I mean online, the computer is np)

Or add me online my Zero hour screen name is Jester401, and let me oberve some of your games. I can't seem to find any people who will let me observe. :(

[Me Myself & Pi]

The best thing to do about rushing air force general, is first: be gathering from at least one other supply dock or have about two oil derrecks captured. With that access money coming in, build avengers. If he's a good player, he'll try to counter them with humvees & other ground units. He might deside to start using auroras.

When I'm attacking an air force general. I usally attack with 4 laser tanks, 3 avengers, & two humvees each with two missle defenders & 1 ranger with flash bangs.

[Jester Kirby]

Attacking is no problem, I can never manage to get enough avengers out though.

[C4]

Well, I took Tournament Desert off my play list because all of the really good rushers play that map. & a lot of the time I can't hold them off!

I really don't like to rush early on with humvees & infanty. It's more fun building a good attack force & then attacking! I play this game to have fun, completly to win. I wish I played someone better then me in one of those game, but I didn't. My current win streat is about up to 7 right now.

U're just waiting to find a good player with patience to play u in those maps u usually play to teach u why TD is the map.
A good GLA player can teach u why harassment (some call it rush, but i prefer to call it "play agressively") is needed and why time is of the essence. Give him time and he'll take map control, take a lot of supplies and spam SW while he attacks u from all flanks and keeps u cornered.

Time will come when i'll be able to play ZH online (now i still not having internet at home:\. Just LANs by now) and to play against u and all this ppl around. I know, by now my words may seem a little vain since i don't have an online acount to show but then i'll try to put my words in action. Hope all of u to stay in the ZH role for many years...:cool:

[Daishi]

Nice advice, I havent been able to get on the forums revently so I am just now posting. :P

I usally play as USA, the other factions are very good in their own ways, I just don't like the tactics of the other factions. I like the laser general, good defense and his laser tanks arnt half bad, if not then normal USA. So if you wanna gimmie some detail on those Daishi that would be great. :)

ooo also....air force generals...they own me every time! (cept once but he wasn't a rush player and was afraid of my laser turret) anyway, some adsvice on how to defend against them....:dismay:

Just seems I'm always running out of money and then there are raptors up in my base.

Just some advice....or a replay of fighting a good air force person. (And I mean online, the computer is np)

Or add me online my Zero hour screen name is Jester401, and let me oberve some of your games. I can't seem to find any people who will let me observe. :(

The best thing to do as vUSA or laser against USAF is to make a compact base and make a good mix of infantry to scout and to protect you from USAF's super MD drop. Do not sell your command center, because USAF will see it and go dozer hunting the second they get King Raptors, allowing him to tech up while you struggle to keep every structure alive. Don't spam laser turrets because his late game > yours and he can just sit back and wait for it, or he can kill your dozers and slow down your economy when you should have been using the cash better.

A decent tactic if you stall them for a moment is to send a chinook at his flank and drop MDs/Mdvees + Avengers. Do this constistently, it's powerful throughout the game and can derail his economy as well as his airforce. Remember that you can damage the airfield and avoid his parked raptor PDLs by force-firing on the ground next to the the airfield at the end of the runway.

On the other hand, stick to your MDvee spam as well, because you can't combat his vees with anything else, especially late game when he gets pathfinders to snipe naked MDs. It's not a balanced matchup in the least, I know, but you deserve commendation for trying.

One last risky tactic. Make 2 raxes up front, get flashbangs, and manspam him to death. It can be countered by ambulances, but not all players will think of that. Make sure you don't neglect your supplies, they must be guarded well no matter what build your doing.

[Jester Kirby]

The best thing to do as vUSA or laser against USAF is to make a compact base and make a good mix of infantry to scout and to protect you from USAF's super MD drop. Do not sell your command center, because USAF will see it and go dozer hunting the second they get King Raptors, allowing him to tech up while you struggle to keep every structure alive. Don't spam laser turrets because his late game > yours and he can just sit back and wait for it, or he can kill your dozers and slow down your economy when you should have been using the cash better.

A decent tactic if you stall them for a moment is to send a chinook at his flank and drop MDs/Mdvees + Avengers. Do this constistently, it's powerful throughout the game and can derail his economy as well as his airforce. Remember that you can damage the airfield and avoid his parked raptor PDLs by force-firing on the ground next to the the airfield at the end of the runway.

On the other hand, stick to your MDvee spam as well, because you can't combat his vees with anything else, especially late game when he gets pathfinders to snipe naked MDs. It's not a balanced matchup in the least, I know, but you deserve commendation for trying.

One last risky tactic. Make 2 raxes up front, get flashbangs, and manspam him to death. It can be countered by ambulances, but not all players will think of that. Make sure you don't neglect your supplies, they must be guarded well no matter what build your doing.

That's good adivce, and I know what you mean by it being unballanced. Seems that whenevr I get a war factory (even if I go strait for getting one) he always has a raptor first....) and I hate loseing money trying to expand when he can just mess it all up with a single plane. Thanks though, I'l definitly try the chinook thing. granted I can build all that in time.

Oh, and memyself, nice replays, yet alot of your oppents just gave up...so wasnt very entertaining but did givre me some economy management ideas.

Anyone else feel free to load up some replays. ESPECIALLY one of a vUSA or laser general manageing to beat a good rushing airforce general.

oh and btw....super md drop...? what's that?

[yurihomer]

i have a 1 dozer building order, it works 80% of the time vs newbi airforce. so if u want, u can play me some day, i show it to u. i can't find a replay right now.

[Jester Kirby]

i have a 1 dozer building order, it works 80% of the time vs newbi airforce. so if u want, u can play me some day, i show it to u. i can't find a replay right now.

Sure, what's your zero hour username?

Mine's Jester401

I don;t know how to add people to my buddy list without right clicking on them in a chat area though.

[yurihomer]

mine is yurihomer3. can u msg me sometime in this weekend, give me a time, then maybe we could have 1 or 2 games. i am quite busy these days, so i can't play long. sorry

[Daishi]

oh and btw....super md drop...? what's that?

By super MD drop I meant I mean cheap Chinooks with PDLs to make any resistance from your own MDs more difficult. It's a USA MD drop... to the max.

Here's a replay of Yuri's ownage 1 dozer BO! It's against Derek, another DGNFer, and is definitely one of my fav reps that I've watched, albeit a short one.

[C4]

By super MD drop I meant I mean cheap Chinooks with PDLs to make any resistance from your own MDs more difficult. It's a USA MD drop... to the max.

Here's a replay of Yuri's ownage 1 dozer BO! It's against Derek, another DGNFer, and is definitely one of my fav reps that I've watched, albeit a short one.

I believe it is the final from the last tourny, right? Well, it was an all-or-nothing drop (anyway it is what u want to show, i guess), something that needs a bit of luck to work and so not that advisable, but...:chin:
And Yuri was bit lucky with the ambu:D.

[yurihomer]

I believe it is the final from the last tourny, right? Well, it was an all-or-nothing drop (anyway it is what u want to show, i guess), something that needs a bit of luck to work and so not that advisable, but...:chin:
And Yuri was bit lucky with the ambu:D.
yea, it was lucky.

[xALBx]

Lol easy, u only have to build one doser and beggining, or if ure gla make 2 workers + 1 for each supply and get that extra 1 to gather supplies as well.