Advice for n00b who has played for years :(

[mrstab]

hi hows it going

I've been playing RA2 on and off since the early 00's and have been playing it quite a lot in the past year or so.

thing is, i'm always way too paranoid to do anything other than comp stomp because i'm a bit of a scatterbrain :( and i just get paranoid about trying to think about 20 things at once. i feel i've gotten as good as i can get with the comp stomp thing, and i just feel badly limited in terms of the scope of my playing. I hate being a noob when by this time i should be a veteran!!

anyways, was wondering if anyone could offer any advice to get me off my paranoid behind and generally just tips and tactics to stand a chance against... anyone :s

thanks for any help.

[Daishi]

Dude, I feel the exact same way.

-There's only one faction that stands a chance against a decent Yuri player, and that's France, but you still won't stand a chance in naval maps. The trick is to stall him with grand cannons, all the while preventing him from obtaining control of the map.

-Learn to use the desolator. Whether it's as cannon fodder for in between your tanks and his or 5 dudes in a flak track set to deploy when the track gets blown up, this is the one unit that can combat Mirages and massed prisms. The Soviets are more or less screwed without them.

-Spam Dolphins as the Allies and Squids as the Soviets. Soviets fail at naval, and Yuri owns really hard.

That's all I can think of for now.

[truefeel]

france doesn't make a chance. they game may last longer, but he will eventually loose just b/c of the french player needs to spend 2000 credits on a cannon, and he will not have enough on one cannon.

[Daishi]

Yeah, but he can stop the Yuri offensive by radar level if he plays and scouts solidly, and with an improved defense, he can build up prism tanks + GGIBFs and win.

[pieman224]

france doesn't make a chance. they game may last longer, but he will eventually loose just b/c of the french player needs to spend 2000 credits on a cannon, and he will not have enough on one cannon.

It actually depends on how much ore/gems are on the map. Also how many miners the player has

[truefeel]

if it's a small map (small maps mostly don't have much resources) and you make a grand cannon, you'll get rushed. that Grand Cannon has costed you 2000 credits, I have that money spend on tanks. You'll have less tanks then me and that GC will make up for it. A lasher rush is quite effective, especially if you consider that yuri has the best economy and allieds the worst.

A bigger map would be slightly different. If you camp, I can cut off your resources that are out of the range of your base, so I will have outproduced you.

Yeah, but he can stop the Yuri offensive by radar level if he plays and scouts solidly, and with an improved defense, he can build up prism tanks + GGIBFs and win.

one Grand Cannon is nothing. it can't cover your whole base and does not much damage in comparing with it's cost. Your also doing it wrong: you're going defensive while you really should go offensive as allieds. A yuri player can and will tech up fast, much faster then you can as allieds. By the time you have your battle lab up, he is ready to win.

[kyle]

If you get nervous like I used to (and I still do) when playing against people online just remember this:

Don't be afraid of getting your ass whooped. Its alright to lose, thats how you learn what not to do.

[truefeel]

If you get nervous like I used to (and I still do) when playing against people online just remember this:

Don't be afraid of getting your ass whooped. Its alright to lose, thats how you learn what not to do.

^^

best advice. Practice makes perfect.

[ein1017]

Never actually played YR online but from what i can tell so far, prism tanks can make your day a lot easier.

[Statalyzer]

There's nothing wrong with playing as France but most people use Grand Cannons wrong.

Do not use them as a pre-emptive base defense weapon when you aren't in immenent danger of attack. You might not need to build one at all.

Use them to really seize your forward ore fields when you stretch there, and sell them when you've chewed up that patch.

Or, if you are in momentary trouble of losing a tank vs tank attack AND you have money to even up the odds given time, then keep building tanks and build a grand cannon. Delay his attack by getting close then pulling back until you are in your own base, then when he attacks up pops the cannon. In this situation it's a good build because you had the money to keep building tanks and to put up the defense as well.

If you had to stop building tanks to get the cannon to build, you're in trouble either way.

[truefeel]

There's nothing wrong with playing as France but most people use Grand Cannons wrong.

Do not use them as a pre-emptive base defense weapon when you aren't in immenent danger of attack. You might not need to build one at all.

Use them to really seize your forward ore fields when you stretch there, and sell them when you've chewed up that patch.

Or, if you are in momentary trouble of losing a tank vs tank attack AND you have money to even up the odds given time, then keep building tanks and build a grand cannon. Delay his attack by getting close then pulling back until you are in your own base, then when he attacks up pops the cannon. In this situation it's a good build because you had the money to keep building tanks and to put up the defense as well.

If you had to stop building tanks to get the cannon to build, you're in trouble either way

Yeh, like you explained. And I don't think you got early game or midgame the money for making both tanks and an GC. It can also be usefull when the yuri player is camping like hell to get use of his SWs. then you could move your MCV close to his base and basewalk as close as possible and then putting up a GC, shooting his base.

On the side note, France can be effective when used right. Most of the soviet players on Country Swing tent to basewalk to the middle and camp up there, resulting the game last very long. but if you basewalk also to middle and put up there a Grand cannon, he'll have to sell all his buildings in range.
So IMO, GCs are better to use offensive then defensive and many player go wrong there.

[apple23]

The best advice here is to start out by playing the same way that you would play against the AI, and then slowly adjust to the style of play that other people use and eventually come up with your own winning strategy. You will surely get owned at first, like all of us, but with practice and good observation of your enemie's strategy you will eventually get good enough to beat him.

We can give you some advice on what to do, but it's really up to you and how you want to play. Just remember to relax, don't worry about getting your ass whooped, and ultimately, have fun!

[YuriRuler90]

-Spam Dolphins as the Allies and Squids as the Soviets. Soviets fail at naval, and Yuri owns really hard.

Soviets do NOT suck. They're better than Allies, and I showed more than half of the Denbusters that back when I played YR. I went through more than half of them, and a few others on this forum, including Stat. :p

[truefeel]

Maybe on YR, but on RA2, Allieds owns hard on naval. period. Even on YR, allieds have more chances then normal to win vs. soviets, concerning both player have equal skills on naval maps.

[Daishi]

was the dolphin nerfed or something in YR? Because AFAIK, Dolphin spam rapes everything, and I don't play RA2.

I understand that Scorpions and subs rape destroyers, but until the battle lab, Allied can even boost their naval with harriers.

[YuriRuler90]

2 dolphins fail vs. 1 sub.
5 dolphins fail vs. 2 subs.
10 dolphins fail vs. 5 subs.
50 dolphins fail vs. 25 subs, but BARELY.

50-75 dolphins is really the cutoff point. But remember - he'll have at least 2/3 as many subs as you have dolphins, since he can start producing subs 1 min into the game. And Soviet economy > allied economy on a map such as Tsunami.

Nov. 2004 - YuriRul90 - 64W, 3L

[truefeel]

2 dolphins fail vs. 1 sub.
5 dolphins fail vs. 2 subs.
10 dolphins fail vs. 5 subs.
50 dolphins fail vs. 25 subs, but BARELY.

50-75 dolphins is really the cutoff point. But remember - he'll have at least 2/3 as many subs as you have dolphins, since he can start producing subs 1 min into the game. And Soviet economy > allied economy on a map such as Tsunami.

Nov. 2004 - YuriRul90 - 64W, 3L

50 dolphins would certainly win vs. 25 subs. You really underestimate the abuse of the sonic attack.
And Tsunami is a map were allieds do have the economy. 2 derricks. ore really close. If you have subs, he will destroyers+doplhins. of course, destroyers, are not so much, but something.

[YuriRuler90]

No, they won't, if you place your subs decently. I'm talking about the diagonal trick. If you put two subs diagonally together, the sonic beam won't hurt them both, even if it passes right through them, and the dolphins can't move between them. (I'll get you an image soon)

You'll lose 15-20 dolphins just trying to get into place (2 torps kills a dolphin, right? Can't remember, 2-3). That, and you're attacking on my turf. Any units (tanks, V3s, etc) that I have laying around I can throw into the fray.

The Allies don't even have a chance to win until they throw up a SpySat and have the full tech tree, at which point the Sov. plaeyr should have already beat them down into the ground.

[truefeel]

No, they won't, if you place your subs decently. I'm talking about the diagonal trick. If you put two subs diagonally together, the sonic beam won't hurt them both, even if it passes right through them, and the dolphins can't move between them. (I'll get you an image soon)

You'll lose 15-20 dolphins just trying to get into place (2 torps kills a dolphin, right? Can't remember, 2-3). That, and you're attacking on my turf. Any units (tanks, V3s, etc) that I have laying around I can throw into the fray.

The Allies don't even have a chance to win until they throw up a SpySat and have the full tech tree, at which point the Sov. plaeyr should have already beat them down into the ground

2 problems with that tactic:
1. it takes awfull alot of time to place it that way
2. it makes you vulnerable. if I place my units right in front of the first sub so that your other subs can't fire (out of range), you will need to get out of your position and THEN I can do multiple damage; if you don't move them, your subs get destroyed following the 1 vs. many principle.

And it's not always sure you can fight right next to the beach.

Lol, I don't need to spend 1500 on a spysat. Carefully scouting with a rocketeer is enough. Earlier, faster and cheaper. And Allieds ways have changed. Decent allied players don't get rushed anymore b/c of excellent camping or TC. An island map is btw way better for Allied players. Maps like Country Swing make it very hard for allied players to win vs. soviets. Still, I and other allied players have managed to do it many times against top 50 soviet players.

[Statalyzer]

Soviets do NOT suck. They're better than Allies, and I showed more than half of the Denbusters that back when I played YR. I went through more than half of them, and a few others on this forum, including Stat. :p

You did not proove Soviets were better, you just prooved that if you are really good with them then they are a viable option. You are better than I am at Naval and would have won with either side. You didn't beat me with subs vs dolphins, you beat me with subs vs destroyers before I got dolphins.

If you put two subs diagonally together, the sonic beam won't hurt them both, even if it passes right through them, and the dolphins can't move between them.

How are you going to keep 25 subs in such a formation?

You'll lose 15-20 dolphins just trying to get into place (2 torps kills a dolphin, right? Can't remember, 2-3). That, and you're attacking on my turf.

First of all, dolphins can get into position and starting firing in a couple of seconds, that is not enough time to kill 20 of them. Also, they shouldn't be attacking on your turf, since the more time goes by, the better the situation gets for the Allies if both players are churning out their unit.

5 dolphins beats 2 subs, and here's why: a player who practices with it will fight you 4v2 and use 1 dolphin to destroy your naval yard in about 3 seconds flat. Even if all 5 dolphins die and you have 1 full-strength sub left, the Allies will have gotten 3-5 more dolphins while you were having your partially built sub cancelled and your Naval Yard rebuilt.

[YuriRuler90]

5 dolphins beats 2 subs, and here's why: a player who practices with it will fight you 4v2 and use 1 dolphin to destroy your naval yard in about 3 seconds flat. Even if all 5 dolphins die and you have 1 full-strength sub left, the Allies will have gotten 3-5 more dolphins while you were having your partially built sub cancelled and your Naval Yard rebuilt.

Last time I checked, a Dolphin hitting the entire Yard with a wave only does 30%, and can only fire once every 3 seconds. Care to test for me? I don't have RA2/YR on this computer.

[Daishi]

YR90 is correct... I just now tested and found out dolphins get raped by mass subs in defensive formation and dolphins at any range can do just 3 squares of damage per shot (to naval shipyards). This is in YR, not RA2.

Funny, I've never noticed because I'm trying to squidspam to victory like in sov mirrors.

[truefeel]

Last time I checked, a Dolphin hitting the entire Yard with a wave only does 30%, and can only fire once every 3 seconds. Care to test for me? I don't have RA2/YR on this computer.

I want to test with you. Just gimme a PM how and when ;).

[Statalyzer]

If a dolphin just clicks on a Naval Yard to fire it won't kill it too fast.

But if a dolphins force fires just on the other side of the yard it will shoot through it, not into it, and thus it does damage separately to each of the 4 cells the shot passes through.

[truefeel]

Me and YJM tested things out. When it's subs vs. dolphins and the dolphins attack, the subs will win when in diagonal position. But when the subs attack, the dolphins win. The reason is that when you're defending with subs, you have actually more time to constantly reline your subs (in the case when the opponent change his angle from attacking constantly). You don't have that time when you're attacking with subs.
Second, we tested earlier game naval set-ups. purely subs vs. destroyers (10 vs 10) with just aim on firepower, the subs will win without a problem (7 subs survived, with 6 of them green health, 1 in red health). But when you use hit 'n run with destroyers, you win easily with them. And then you had the 10 destroyers vs 8 subs and 3 sea scorpions match up. Easy win for the subs, even when YJM went after the sea scorpions (just flee with ctrl+shift; If he suddenly attack the subs, the scorpions will react and take the ospreys down).

And we still need to settle something, YuriRuler90. I have more then a year the same title under my name :p.

[Daishi]

Hey, Dr. Feel...

That was me that you tested and got those results with, not YJM. :\

[truefeel]

* I mean JYM.

[apple23]

If a dolphin just clicks on a Naval Yard to fire it won't kill it too fast.

But if a dolphins force fires just on the other side of the yard it will shoot through it, not into it, and thus it does damage separately to each of the 4 cells the shot passes through.

actually i bealive the way sonic works in RA2 is it applies it's AmbientDamage(which is 4, believe it or not) every frame that the weapon is traveling over a cell occupied by that building or unit, so i'd say going over 4 cells it would do a good 200 damage.

[Dracaveli]

even though most ppl won't admit it, factory YURI/RA2 is unbalanced

[Aro]

If a dolphin just clicks on a Naval Yard to fire it won't kill it too fast.

But if a dolphins force fires just on the other side of the yard it will shoot through it, not into it, and thus it does damage separately to each of the 4 cells the shot passes through.

This is true... It's exactly the same with Tiberian Sun, Disruptors, too. Though, anyway, i see Dolphins as a force that's really easy to counter; Soviets can just remove them with Sea scorpions flak weapon, and the allies can simply remove them with prism tanks, force-firing at the water, that is if, they are close enough to land... Yuri on the other hand, the dude's hopeless... Naval wars are just simply not his specialty. :devil:

[truefeel]

oh no ? you never seen a boomer rush then ?

[Daishi]

The number 1 strategy against Yuri on naval maps is to quit. It's just too hard to stop a decent Boomer rush.

Stealthed capital ships do not belong in the early-mid game, it was a huge mistake on Westwood's part.

[truefeel]

The problem was that Westwood was too lazy to build a complete naval like allieds and soviets have.

[Aro]

I'll be honest here, i've never seen a boomer rush, but i assume that a few Destroyers / sumberines can easily counter them, as the boomer torperdo, is weaker than the Soviet attack sub, warhead... Boomers take far too long to produce also, with the dolphin tactic that was mentioned on the other page, that can demolish the boomers in seconds... The only way i could imagine Yuri would even have a chance in a naval war, is if he has any ANTI-AIR ships... But as you said, westwood was far too lazy... But that's the reason we have modding tools. ;)

[truefeel]

I'll be honest here, i've never seen a boomer rush, but i assume that a few Destroyers / sumberines can easily counter them, as the boomer torperdo, is weaker than the Soviet attack sub, warhead... Boomers take far too long to produce also, with the dolphin tactic that was mentioned on the other page, that can demolish the boomers in seconds... The only way i could imagine Yuri would even have a chance in a naval war, is if he has any ANTI-AIR ships... But as you said, westwood was far too lazy... But that's the reason we have modding tools. ;)


Well, as it's a stealth unit, you can't predict from which direction it's coming. That's one. second, it's has alot of armour, which makes I could easily IGNORE your subs/destroyers and bomb your base.

And you will not get any dolphins. it's called boomer RUSH for something. Which means you'll face a boomer 2-3 minutes in the game. I don't know if you can realise that, but that's very early in the game. You'll barely have by then like 4 subs/destroyers. That's really not enough to stop ONE SINGLE boomer from destroying your buildings. You want to build AA also ? remember then that a boomer costs 2000 credits and you'll certainly have to spend atleast the equal on AA, count up costs on naval and your economy is so low you are broke for a minute or 2. time enough for me to make a ground force (unlike soviet/allied economy, yuri economy can handle all of this) and to rush you with 3-4 lashers and a magnetron.

[Statalyzer]

I'll be honest here, i've never seen a boomer rush, but i assume that a few Destroyers / sumberines can easily counter them, as the boomer torperdo, is weaker than the Soviet attack sub, warhead...

Yes, but the Boomer has a lot more armor. Let's say your map is Isle of War. If you build 2 DDs and send them South, there's a 50% you get screwed by the Boomer going North. If you leave them in the middle, the Boomer can surface from either N or S and be in range of your base, gg. So, you have to send 2 DDs to each side of the island to intercept possible Boomers. Even then, he can run past you and not even try to kill your DD and just go for your base, so you'll either need more like 4 DDs on each side, or else you'll need an Aegis as well. 4 DDs and an Aegis costs you more than 1 Boomer costs him (so you're in trouble in the land war), and it still won't stop 2 Boomers. And you can't really know if he got 1 or 2.

with the dolphin tactic that was mentioned on the other page, that can demolish the boomers in seconds...

That doesn't work on ships because ships are only one cell. If ships are nicely lined up then dolphins can damage several at once, but they can't do damage to an individual ship any faster.

The only way i could imagine Yuri would even have a chance in a naval war, is if he has any ANTI-AIR ships

The thing is that he really doesn't need them unless it's mid to late game. Rockies and Harriers won't sink Boomers fast enough to save your base, unless you get 8 Harriers. And getting AFC + 8 Harriers costs about 3 times as much as a Sub Pen + Psy Radar + Boomer.

[apple23]

All very true points. There's simply no easy way to beat a boomer without spending several times more money than it costed to make that boomer, which means that you are screwed if he builds a ground force, which he is more than likely to do.

What westwood should have done is make a unit that was about equal to a sub for the starter unit, and then made an AA unit at radar tech, and then the boomer at B lab tech, AND it should cost more because it is like a dreadnought and 2 subs put together (thats 4000 dollars vs 2000 dollars just for a match, including the fact that it can go underwater.)

I also think that both yuri and soviet navy need a good shore bombardment unit, like the destroyer. (minus the ASW on its back and maybe at radar tech.)

That's it for yuris naval, now its time to balance out his ground force.....

[Daishi]

Boomer price should be.... 2500. It's not more because the Boomer is not as awesome when the defender is developed.

[truefeel]

And the problem is that there is no time to develop any defence. That makes the boomer rush so good: hard, fast and relative cheap in comparing to what the enemy needs to build to stop it.

[apple23]

Boomer price should be.... 2500. It's not more because the Boomer is not as awesome when the defender is developed.

Take out it's torpedo weapon and its a submarine dreadnought, which would then, and only then, be worth 2500. Otherwise with the torpedo weapon i say its worth 3500 to 4000.

[YuriRuler90]

I found that I could always have two boomers out within 2mins of the game starting, but it cripples your economy, which doesn't matter. You just blew up their base, hehe.

[Statalyzer]

Of course, if you get 2 Boomers that fast, you risk a keen Allied/Soviet player coming into your base with like 3 tanks and a couple of engineers when you have nothing - maybe even base trading and taking his MCV with him. I'd still get a WF first so I can build just enough land force to not get annihilated.

[Rowmen]

I personaly dont Like naval battle's because then you have to worry about 3-ways of attack and defense, just more things to worrie but like Statalyzer said. If he rushs with navy rush with air or land.

[truefeel]

If he goes only 1 boomer, he can stop your rush and then you are doomed.

[Rowmen]

How does a boomer stop 4-6 tanks? or so

[truefeel]

What I mean is that when he goes only 1 boomer, he still has money enough to get 2-3 tanks and more importantly, a magnetron. 2-3 lashers can defeat by ease 4-6 rhinoes. Not that you are gonna have 6 tanks anyway; a boomer rush goes so fast you'll barely have 2-3 tanks if you go 0 miners.

[Rowmen]

You right about the boomer being faster, but you forgot about how yuri being broke after making the boomers. Destory his slave miner, Hes broke move your base and finish it.

[Statalyzer]

3 lashers and 1 magnetron can easily defeat 6 rhinos? Both of you guys I think are acting like it's a foregon conclusion who would triumph in the extreme Boomer rush being described; truth is it depends on other minor differences as well as the skills of the players and the multitasking most of all.

[truefeel]

Stat, with auto magging it will not work, but with constantly manual magging and a good TC it can work. I've done it before.

You right about the boomer being faster, but you forgot about how yuri being broke after making the boomers. Destory his slave miner, Hes broke move your base and finish it.

Miners are strong enough to take quite a few punches; by the time you have 2 rhinoes, I'll have my WF up, by the the time you are at my base with those 2 tanks, I'll have 2 tanks myself + a brute as fodder. If you wait until you have 4 tanks (which you'll probably not have due your wf got blowed up by the boomer), I'll have 3 tanks + 1 magnetron.

Else let's try it out. when do you have time ?

[Statalyzer]

What map are you playing on that's good for Boomer rushing but you can build 2 tanks in the time it takes to travel from one base to another? Lake Blitzen maybe (although there the whole battle is different b/c of tech derricks), but not LBL or Isle of War.

Stat, with auto magging it will not work, but with constantly manual magging and a good TC it can work.

Of course it can work, but the way you worded it, it sounded like it was pretty much guaranteed to work decisively.

I think the Soviets in this scenario should do more than just bring 2 tanks. Come over with 2 tanks and a flak, and load it up with 1 engineer and some conscripts (maybe a tesla guy, if that won't put you in low cash). Maybe bring a drone along - a Gatt defeats it easily, but the Yuri should be building Lashers since he expects a tank rush - then his first lasher gets droned and he doesn't have a cheap $500 building to guard his WF.

Of course, the Soviets also don't know what sort of Boomer rush is coming, so if they try that then Yuri might build WF first and thus be able to afford an initial Gatt before his Lashers.

[Rowmen]

I live West Coast, But I have school so Any time after 4:00 my time or on the weekend

[thetechieotaku]

Dude, I feel the exact same way.

-There's only one faction that stands a chance against a decent Yuri player, and that's France, but you still won't stand a chance in naval maps. The trick is to stall him with grand cannons, all the while preventing him from obtaining control of the map.

-Learn to use the desolator. Whether it's as cannon fodder for in between your tanks and his or 5 dudes in a flak track set to deploy when the track gets blown up, this is the one unit that can combat Mirages and massed prisms. The Soviets are more or less screwed without them.

-Spam Dolphins as the Allies and Squids as the Soviets. Soviets fail at naval, and Yuri owns really hard.

That's all I can think of for now.

that's true

[sg500]

hi hows it going

I've been playing RA2 on and off since the early 00's and have been playing it quite a lot in the past year or so.

thing is, i'm always way too paranoid to do anything other than comp stomp because i'm a bit of a scatterbrain :( and i just get paranoid about trying to think about 20 things at once. i feel i've gotten as good as i can get with the comp stomp thing, and i just feel badly limited in terms of the scope of my playing. I hate being a noob when by this time i should be a veteran!!

anyways, was wondering if anyone could offer any advice to get me off my paranoid behind and generally just tips and tactics to stand a chance against... anyone :s

thanks for any help.


Theres no way around it u gotta play real ppl and get ur ass handed to you. Thats how you learn what works and what needs work.

[Annihlator :D]

Theres no way around it u gotta play real ppl and get ur ass handed to you. Thats how you learn what works and what needs work.

Dude, that post is a year old. :|