The Ivan Rush

[Avapodnaught]

Recently I was playing a couple of games with a new strategy against the soviets, we were playing a soviet war on sedona and I was in the easiest to rush position, number 1

They flanked me, my friends continued to help me, and we won....

Because the enemy worked as no such team (besides 6 and 5, brutal rushing humans!!!),

During the battle I noticed that I couldn't build tanks fast and sent many types of infantry, mainly by air support, and tesla troopers...

They were mounting another rush, and I thought quick, drones were dying but my friends were eager to back me up... as one had a war fac in my base, so I built a crazy ivan and hid it in with my infantry squad, and I noticed how well it took out many tanks, if they didn't c it directly, and they weren't smart enuf to look or run away at first, they wanted to ruin my economy, so here it is, the awesome ivan rush...

1. basic power, and barracks, scout the enemy well (if you don't do it right don't do it at all, if you can't see what they have abort tactic)
2. ref, war if enemy builds quick tanks (reason 2 for scouting) build drones, and one miner, and a flak trak (the strategy can vary from here
3. radar, pp, and ref -once you get ur radar, build two ivans, place them in the flak trak, and head for either the war fac (main reason to scout, hopefully tanks are near, or just at tanks, then wobble to the war fac, or ruin their whole base fast by deploying one at a time if they don't have tanks at all)
4.sell new ref and countinue to deploy refs and sell them until you are sure that you have enough funds, if you crippled them right, they will either send tanks, or give you time to build tanks, then smash them later


Notes: Scouting is essential, sending trak around obvious passage as would you an engi rush, tanks after ypu feel safe, or need them, build them, economy is quickened with two harvesters, but one is fine (better for building drones to take on survivors, unless you went horribly wrong, they your last refuge)

This takes time to get used to, especially on different maps, ivans can quickly bomb tanks, then war fac, and any building they have built by the time you deploy the rush
Another way to go is to send it first later on before tanks, bomb them, then just smash through them, it is safer, along as they aren't iraq... with desolators out...

[Aro]

This is a good tactic... If your opponent is a quick thinker, however, he will kill your ivans, and defuse their bomb's using engineers... However, i think for this tactic to work even better, is after you've placed a bomb on a structure, leave the ivan standing right next to it, therefore, if he dies, he'll blow the building up anyway... Always seemed to work for me anyway. ;)

[Avapodnaught]

well, most people I face don't even think of building engineers
second, if u do it right, u might even get their barracks, an added bonus would be having the flak trak survive, so far, that has happened once, noone built engineers, because the buildings in question were too far away, or they r trying to stop the ivans


Edit: Don't try this if you don't think you are skilled enough... Like many rushes, this is a tactic that there are no ways out if you fail at it unless you can defend yourself, and unlike most rushes, this is a new Bo for the tactic, if it has not been used b4 [ I know it hasn't (or has it?)]

[apple23]

This tactic may work against mediocre players, but even if you do it right you will still get owned by a good player.
True that most players don't think about engi's for bombs, but unless you blow up thier entire base the enemy would have enough rhinoes by the time you even had the ivans to begin with to annihilate you. Easily.
If you won with this tactic, then you were surely playing a noob.

[Avapodnaught]

Even with building tanks at the earliest it is clocked at two/three tanks, because building a harvester and a flak trak doesn't take long, then you start building some tanks of your own, and the ivans come fast yoif u know how to manage your money, and ivaning the tanks is the way to when you face them, then go for the war factory


The tactic is based on scouting, if u can't c what they r doing it will be useless, if u c where the tanks off the tanks will attack the flak trak thinking that it has engineers, that is one of the beauties of the idea

I know that scouting is the base of the operation because it just happens when you face skilled serious players they will have rhinos by then, scouting is key

If u can't scout well then don't do the tactic, otherwise, it is perfect against allied enemies, and taking out some tanks and then the base

Note: If the tanks are close to your base when you release the ivans they will put up defenses against the ivans, do not send it against noobs that use bunkers, or noobs that use sentry/pill boxes near the critical buildings, just scout, figure that the best thing to do is send tanks or have fun with the ivan rush, don't be lazy on resources

[yuri777]

If ur defending against an ivan charge or any infantry charge u just need to build some mirage tanks.

[apple23]

By the time you have a harvester he will have 1 and a half rhinoes, by the time you have a flak track he will have 2, by the time u have radar up he will have 3, and by the time you have 2 crazy ivans he will have 4 and a half, and by the time you even get to his base he will have 5. Unless you destroy his entire base, gg.

And BTW using sentry guns and pill boxes is a very good idea for anti scouting and anti engi rushing. not newbish at all.

Another note: you will NEVER get his tanks wit a crazy ivan if he has even a lick of tank control at all. so now you are behind by 5 rhinoes and you havent even scratched his base or his forces. gg.If ur defending against an ivan charge or any infantry charge u just need to build some mirage tanks.

We're talking about a rush here. You wont have a battle lab up by the time this happens, let alone a mirage tank. If ur soviet the best counter is rhinoes(or maybe even a terror drone). For allies its best to get a SEAL in an IFV.

[Statalyzer]

By the time you have a harvester he will have 1 and a half rhinoes, by the time you have a flak track he will have 2, by the time u have radar up he will have 3, and by the time you have 2 crazy ivans he will have 4 and a half, and by the time you even get to his base he will have 5. Unless you destroy his entire base, gg.

However, after the "flak track he will have 2" part, you can build rhinos of your own (the Radar/Ivans don't stop you from building tanks), so you'll be outnumbered 5 to 3, not 5 to 0.

The problem is that with the Radar and Ivans that's $2200 spent at the same time as tanks, which will suck your cash reserves fast and give you "insufficient funds", so you will fall farther behind in tanks afterward unless there are gems or derricks. The other problem is that those 5 tanks can probably kill the flak track before it gets close enough to ivan bomb anything in the base. Maybe, from him not knowing there are Ivans in the FT, you'll kill one tank. Still not a good tradeoff for a flak and 2 Ivans.

[Avapodnaught]

Of course Ive based this rush on what I've actually done and it has its works and failings, don't use right on on some 3v3 maps, it can be brutal unless your in the right position, and again if you can't scout don't do it, and if you are unable to pull it off in experiment against a computer no chances for you...

It isn't simple, but you should be able to get at least 2 thirds of the people you play with this, saying as you don't screw up or they get lucky :(

Minor change be build two flak traks and either put one ivan in each (garantee hits one tank, if they go for one) and go in different entrances, or have one empty for when you send both, might want to put a drone in the phony aka extra

You could use this for a map with good resources and start with tanks and build up to the ivan rush, hit with tanks, and get the buildings (if da tanks dona work)

Edit: You may now notice boldness in the term scouting

[truefeel]

I tried something similar, but I waited a bit more with it (into midgame). I builded one flak track and one ivan. I had an airport, so I putted bombs on free conscripts and putted those in the flak track. Then I attack his miners with all of my tanks to lure out all of his tanks and parked the flak track with "bombscripts" next to his war factory. worked like a sharm. Could also had worked with an ivan (putting bombs everywhere), but I thought that that wouldn't do enough damage to destroy a WF in one shot (which I probably only would have)

[Avapodnaught]

Are you kidding? An ivan would be able to kill it in one shot, here is a small list of buildings I know it won't kill in one shot

Nuke plant, conyard, buildings it can't get to... before dying, industrial plant, superweapons, and maybe prisms and tesla coils (not going up against a mind control eh?)

[truefeel]

I am pretty sure it can't destroy a War Factory in one shot. However, if the ivan blows up next to the war factory and the bombs on the war factory explode on top of that, then the war factory is destroyed, but other then that, it doesn't get destroyed.

Btw, ivans are also great in a tank battle. Fill 5 of them in a flak track and drive them to the enemy tanks (preferable on the back so they can't escape). let the flak track be destroyed and the ivans happily start to put bombs on the tanks. Really nasty and powerfull.

[Avapodnaught]

that only works against the tanks if the flak gets close, if it is destroyed, the ivans r realeased and killed off, making a chain exploision on themselves, something I realized that happened when I had two ivans in one flak, that is y a gave the second flak without any ivans, or two flaks with ivans, better chances of killing the tanks, the war fac, whatever ;)

[Dracaveli]

Ivan bombs are best when used on conscripts and loaded in a flak track... a suicide vehicle at that point..deploy to fire....damm shame the AI can't make use of this tactic...

terrorist I know can be run over, Ivans Im not so sure about but I believe in factory rules.ini they can be as well..

Ivans themselves are just slower moving terrorist when caught in a enemy base...I dont think there's really enough time for them to plant bombs on anything except lower level buildings..but if you dont place buildings right, you can lose the c-yard, war fact, and barracks all in one shot from a destroyed ivan/terrorist loaded flak track

I sure wished the bomb could be thrown though

[Avapodnaught]

Thats a big iffy, you are sure to get damage done with the diversion flak, unless you are idioticly clumsy... then don't do it, if you are not going to say something useful to the ivan rush don't say it, terrorist cuba is a faction they will expect this from, if your facing someone decent... I don't see why they wouldn't try to stop it:freek:

[Dracaveli]

well I'm pretty sure Ivans can be run over....I don't see how you can really rush with Ivan...since you must manually target each tank individually....not like a drone which moves towards the nearest...they can however kill a service depot in one bomb....players are more likely to try an defuse a Ivan bomb with the service depot rather then a engi...so you could use this at times to enhance an overall strat...but I don't think you could produce a win with this alone

[Avapodnaught]

well I'm pretty sure Ivans can be run over....I don't see how you can really rush with Ivan...since you must manually target each tank individually....not like a drone which moves towards the nearest...they can however kill a service depot in one bomb....players are more likely to try an defuse a Ivan bomb with the service depot rather then a engi...so you could use this at times to enhance an overall strat...but I don't think you could produce a win with this alone
Hell I'm laughing already, one, people won't have a service depot, they get tanks and economy idiot, ivan rush has to be precise, since your not one of the people who understand that, I wouldn't do it IF i were you, if the enemy built a service depot you should know (scouting), then you would win by tank default, which means your enemy be noobish... sheesh, ivans actually do attack tanks that try to squish them, but they won't walk up to them, I already listed buildings that you shouldn't try to kill against the ivans, but most of them won't be up (nuke plant, industrial plant, sw's, ore building)

You just don't seem to know much about this do you?

[Dracaveli]

the "tactic" of base walking isnt done with one mcv.....

players are more likely to try an defuse a Ivan bomb with the service depot rather then a engi....you don't get where I'm coming from....

there's nothing precise about this game, haven't been since cnc95

I've also seen players use the deso deploy as base defense/deterrent while having a service depot away from area to repair newly built tanks of the minimal damage incured coming out of the war fact....mainly against a savvy allied spy

[truefeel]

the "tactic" of base walking isnt done with one mcv.....


I've never seen some one using multiple mcvs to basewalk and if I would had, I would had laughed out the other player. 1 mcv is far more then enough.

I've also seen players use the deso deploy as base defense/deterrent while having a service depot away from area to repair newly built tanks of the minimal damage incured coming out of the war fact....mainly against a savvy allied spy

I've seen that also. And I've also seen that player getting his desolators killed by a plane/rocketeer of me, so he'll get spied after all.

[Avapodnaught]

the "tactic" of base walking isnt done with one mcv.....

players are more likely to try an defuse a Ivan bomb with the service depot rather then a engi....you don't get where I'm coming from....

there's nothing precise about this game, haven't been since cnc95

I've also seen players use the deso deploy as base defense/deterrent while having a service depot away from area to repair newly built tanks of the minimal damage incured coming out of the war fact....mainly against a savvy allied spy
Whoa, no one mentioned basewalking, its irrelevant and would be a good ploy for adding a drone to your arsenal and buying extra miners while they try to recuperate from your attack, and skipping over desolators will not kill your flak unless they have two

[Dracaveli]

wth, who said anything about base walking? u don't realize the point of scouting as much as ive made it clear, I wouldn't be allied if I were to do the rush at all, ur statements need to have authorization by people who use their 'heads' b4 u post on here, i mean seriously, scouting would be a revalation to u if u understood it, if they did that, u could just pounce on them with tanks, scout, figure what u should do, win, u don't need to do the ivan rush if the enemy has done something that would complicate things "further" than ur abilities, gah, people like u....


assuming you are able to scout their base in the first place, and not everybody plays according to your an others so called "established norms"

some ppl actually do counter the early scouting party

and I mention base walking because that is done and ppl do build service depots to build faster (c-yards) after they have two to three war facts


gawd forbid others have a different way of acheiving victory...btw: I'm curious how many times have you ranked #1 in online play.....you must have done it countless of times since I am of the other (you) ppl....oh wise and tactical one

[Avapodnaught]

assuming you are able to scout their base in the first place, and not everybody plays according to your an others so called "established norms"

some ppl actually do counter the early scouting party

and I mention base walking because that is done and ppl do build service depots to build faster (c-yards) after they have two to three war facts


gawd forbid others have a different way of acheiving victory...btw: I'm curious how many times have you ranked #1 in online play.....you must have done it countless of times since I am of the other (you) ppl....oh wise and tactical one
Again, if they counter scout on a map which does not matter, try to avoid it and play to make their scout easiest to kill, and if they do this on a map which you really need to get oil derricks, then you are probably dead

You probably build a drone and then scout, if they build a cannon then I guess you would follow up with some tanks, then you would have an easy win if they were using up their resources so quickly, and people who are building up a walking strategy you really should try to know, the ivan rush could do them some harm (it is harder against soviets with their War Miner)

Unless you are careless with what you do, I do know other people have other ways of winning, but I just suggested one because this is a forum with different strategies in a department with yuri revenge tactics and such, and two to three war facs? No one will have this unless they aren't building tanks like they should be, this is an early rush you know

Being wise and tactical is only the beginning, using it in battle can be quite stressful if you don't act the right way, trust me.....

Especially if you play 3 games with limited time, it will take a while to be able to shift thru them manually...

[truefeel]

By the time you have 3 war factories, you have basewalked already to your distination or are really close. building then extra mcvs is only a waste of money. Really, if my opponent does that I just let him waste that money while I spend on tanks. he'll get behind on tanks, I attack and win.

And dracaveli, this has nothing to do with rankings. having a rank is IMO irrelevant. I play QM rarely, but I own most of the time everyone in ffg or Clan Matches.

[Avapodnaught]

By the time you have 3 war factories, you have basewalked already to your distination or are really close. building then extra mcvs is only a waste of money. Really, if my opponent does that I just let him waste that money while I spend on tanks. he'll get behind on tanks, I attack and win.

And dracaveli, this has nothing to do with rankings. having a rank is IMO irrelevant. I play QM rarely, but I own most of the time everyone in ffg or Clan Matches.
Clan rank I think would be more important IMO, but rank games I play rarely just when I get tired of all those rules, and try to become a better player against all the unsuspected tactics I encounter

Note that contains information about the Ivan Rush: Scouting is essential, as always, you should be able to scout with 3-4 dogs while putting up ur refinery and war fac, and keep a good scout, do not rush some basewalkers where they use refineries to base walk, unless you are confident they be inexperienced enough to not send in the miners to kill the rush, this is where sending two flaks can be handy for distraction, or double attacks

[truefeel]

u don't need 3-4 dogs on every map. 1-2 dogs is enough for the smallest maps, 2-3 for most maps and 3-4 for big ones like Heck Freezes Over.

And yes, scouting is important. But anti scouting also. People sometimes forget the importance of garrisoning possible buildings and putting dogs at strategical places to anti-scout.

And IMO, you should rush always. Not for inmediately winning, but to keep the pressure on. I always do small hit 'n runs with my first 2 tanks. works quite irritating

[ALaRm2202]

assuming you are able to scout their base in the first place, and not everybody plays according to your an others so called "established norms"

some ppl actually do counter the early scouting party

and I mention base walking because that is done and ppl do build service depots to build faster (c-yards) after they have two to three war facts


gawd forbid others have a different way of acheiving victory...btw: I'm curious how many times have you ranked #1 in online play.....you must have done it countless of times since I am of the other (you) ppl....oh wise and tactical one
Thats me!!! =D clan(one man) and QM

and To avadonaught or w.e his name is >.<

one drone stops ur flak =\ and not to mention ur economy is screwed up bcuz of an early radar. i would nvr do this in a serious game lol =\

[Fenring]

and not to mention ur economy is screwed up bcuz of an early radar. i would nvr do this in a serious game lol =\
Not always. It depends on your country and what you intend to actually do.

[Statalyzer]

I'm always a lot more likely to try stuff like that when playing 2v2 than 1v1. If need be, you and your ally can communicate to make sure that when one of you is trying something funny, the other is cranking out tanks like there's no tomorrow. Of course every now and then you both might want to go for the unusual stuff to provide distractions for each other.

[Avapodnaught]

Thats me!!! =D clan(one man) and QM

and To avadonaught or w.e his name is >.<

one drone stops ur flak =\ and not to mention ur economy is screwed up bcuz of an early radar. i would nvr do this in a serious game lol =\
Lol one drone

Of course you would send in two flaks, and if you are worried about that, send in the fake flak while other carries the two ivans, economy will not be my worry if enemy loses at least one tank, and the war, game is yours (you made a damn harvy, and will continue to build refs, and maybe some drones to kill their tanks, then drone their harvies, continue from that, its gold....

Don't do this on team maps because... the enemy won't give you time to do this (unless two wars are in one base!!!) Ha, I think you should pay attention to my jabber.... its all in there... :D


@ Truefeel, um, 3 4 dogs won't hurt you, and scouting is very essential, but if ur unlucky with dogs... ur in the deep, and u should have two harvies by time enemy has 2 harvies (assuming tank rusher....) and then start making refs after radar, you shouldn't be far behind, and you have ways of putting them behind

[ALaRm2202]

bwa ha ha ha ha, one drone, one drone, lmao

of course u send in two flaks, and if u r worried about that, send in fake flak while other carries the two ivans, eco will not be my worry if enemy loses at least one tank, and the war, game is yours (u made a damn harvy, and will continue to build refs, and maybe some drones to kill their tanks, then drone their harvies, continue from that, its gold....

Don't do this on team maps because... the enemy won't give u time to do this (unless two wars in one base!!!) he he he, I think u should pay attention to my incomprehensible jabber.... its all in there... :D


@ true, um, 3 4 dogs won't hurt u, and scouting is very essential, but if ur unlucky with dogs... ur in the deep, and u should have two harvies by time enemy has 2 harvies (assuming tank rusher....) and then start making refs after radar, u shouldn't be far behind, and u have ways of putting thme bhind

add my msn and try this vs me.

ill be allied even if u want =\ the name im using most this month is johnycage or drone

[Avapodnaught]

add my msn and try this vs me.

ill be allied even if u want =\ the name im using most this month is johnycage or drone
Um, one thing, most people dont' even know what the ivan rush is, but since you do know....

I'm not going to face you with it like that, if I were to fight people who knew it, I would try it a bit different, but I'll take you up on that offer