1.05 completed!

[Daishi]

The community patch developed by some of Zero Hour's best players has gone through its final reiteration. 1.05e has come a long way since 1.05b which was the last version played by Clanwars. It's urged that you all give it a go, and that you dispel any previous negative thoughts about 1.05b because this patch is very different.

Download/Changelog (http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=280024)

Thanks to the quick action of some determined (and rather big-headed) pro gamers, the Community Balance Patch has reached its final form. If you ask me, they didn't test nearly enough to call this the last one, but hey, it's results, and if they hadn't seized it and acted quickly, AGMLauncher would just have shut down GR's support for the patch. Well done to all involved.

The factions as of official version 1.04 were about as balanced as a heroin addict on a vibrating waterbed, so I encourage all ZH players to consider using this patch in future tournaments, to give evenly-matched players more freedom in choosing their faction, and more fun after that. Perhaps with some support, official version 1.05 still has a shot at reality.

[C4]

The factions as of official version 1.04 were about as balanced as a heroin addict on a vibrating waterbed, so I encourage all ZH players to consider using this patch in future tournaments, to give evenly-matched players more freedom in choosing their faction, and more fun after that. Perhaps with some support, official version 1.05 still has a shot at reality.

Daishi, how happy i am for these words. And even happier to see YOU spreading this news. If u remember some old discussions... u're a totally renewed Daishi, and for the absolute better.;)

[yurihomer]

do you have the changes that were made?

[Daishi]

Wow, C4, I'm flattered... :uhh:

Anyway, Yuri, the changelog's in the link.

[chitty]

It looks similar to what you'd get if the people who post nerf ideas on blizzard balance forums got their way.

Dragon tanks can't wipe out an entire GLA expansion when countered? Noif. My favorite was the worker shoes nerf .. because it was strong in one map.

I'd rather just avoid this one and continue ducking out of toxin/air force games.

[Daishi]

My favorite was the worker shoes nerf .. because it was strong in one map.

Not a lot of people realize that the majority of 1v1 maps are critically imbalanced. The game has always been most balanced on Tournament Desert, and its the only 1v1 map that matters, not to mention the most popular one.

[yurihomer]

wow... so no more early gla terror car hunting dozers eh.

[SgtRicko]

Dear god, they've essentially made the China Internet Center downright unkillable - how in the hell is that even considered remotely balanced?!:nuts:

EDIT: Oh another thing: they made the terror car TOTALLY useless now. I must've missed the part where totally eliminating an ability is considered good balancing, cause...


Ahhh, **** this. I'm not even going to convince anyone here on how stupid this thing is starting to sound to me now, just ignore me and my pissed ranting...

[chitty]

Not a lot of people realize that the majority of 1v1 maps are critically imbalanced. The game has always been most balanced on Tournament Desert, and its the only 1v1 map that matters, not to mention the most popular one.

It doesn't seem like a very professional patch, I think they buffed china way too much because of a few small annoyances. When people are no longer rewarded for unplugging themselves from losing games, I'll take it.

[yurihomer]

Dear god, they've essentially made the China Internet Center downright unkillable - how in the hell is that even considered remotely balanced?!:nuts:

EDIT: Oh another thing: they made the terror car TOTALLY useless now. I must've missed the part where totally eliminating an ability is considered good balancing, cause...


Ahhh, **** this. I'm not even going to convince anyone here on how stupid this thing is starting to sound to me now, just ignore me and my pissed ranting...
1st, i doubt china even build internet center. even if they do, there is only 1.

2nd, the two terror car in middle can really kill all the hope china and usa have at the start of the game. because say china/usa sell their command center after getting 1 more dozer, the two terror car each kill 1 dozer, and making china/usa unable to build anything else from now on. then gla could just technical and terrorist spam and terrorist every structure to win the game.

but i do think the terror car thing went too far. i like the sound of 2 cars kill 1 dozer though.

[SgtRicko]

Hence why I almost never sell my command center: you just never know when your enemy catches on and tries to screw you over for it.

[Derek]

Hmm, I hadn't seen the new terror car change. That was rather pointless tbh, terror cars were fine in 1.05c where two cars could take out one dozer, there was no need to make them useless by slowing them down, it was usually possible to catch at least one of them anyways.

[C4]

1st, i doubt china even build internet center. even if they do, there is only 1.
Internet centers were sometimes usefull, and a boost in hitpoints is welcome to keep hackers alive longer and pay themselves. And to Ricko, IT IS KILLABLE.

2nd, the two terror car in middle can really kill all the hope china and usa have at the start of the game. because say china/usa sell their command center after getting 1 more dozer, the two terror car each kill 1 dozer, and making china/usa unable to build anything else from now on. then gla could just technical and terrorist spam and terrorist every structure to win the game.
In old 1.04 this is the sad truth.
but i do think the terror car thing went too far. i like the sound of 2 cars kill 1 dozer though.
With 1.05c they nerfed the damage of the terrorcar (2 kill a dozer as u say). and it should be kept that way. I also think they went too far with this. After all there were ways (forward rax or mines) to deal with them, and as Derek says, most times at least one of 'em don't reach any target.
In this point i agree with u Ricko. But this "unfortunate detail" won't ruin the patch, that is, hands down, better than ever.:hyper:

It doesn't seem like a very professional patch, I think they buffed china way too much because of a few small annoyances.
Small annoyances, hum? Try to play with vChina vsToxin (this one just need tunnel spam and 3 quads to beat China), vsUSAf (no words here), vsTank...(better than vChina in almost everything, and with vet gatts to deal with the rest), the list goes on&on, on 1.04 to reconsider whose "small annoyances" where those. :hmm:

[chitty]

Small annoyances, hum? Try to play with vChina vsToxin (this one just need tunnel spam and 3 quads to beat China), vsUSAf (no words here), vsTank...(better than vChina in almost everything, and with vet gatts to deal with the rest), the list goes on&on, on 1.04 to reconsider whose "small annoyances" where those. :hmm:


You missed the part where they significantly buffed the other chinas and nerfed GLA units and strats specifically for china.

Buffing vanilla (wtf does vanilla mean?) is great and all, but they went too far.

[Daishi]

You missed the part where they significantly buffed the other chinas and nerfed GLA units and strats specifically for china.

Buffing vanilla (wtf does vanilla mean?) is great and all, but they went too far.

First of all, GLA > China pretty severely in 1.04. If GLA dozer hunts, they win. If GLA scraps up their first veteran technical, they win. If GLA has marauders and quads against Nuke, they're winning until Nuke techs up, which is when GLA gets battlebusses and scuds, which work together to tear apart china mixes. Gamma buses cannot be countered at all without massive sacrifices. Did we mention that China's late-game economy isn't half of GLA's? Every change killing the unfair advantages of GLA is a good change.

Second, vanilla is a term for the original armies. China, GLA, and USA can alternately be called vGLA, vUSA, and vChina.

Also, this patch isn't perfect, but at least you won't know who's going to win just by eyeing the loading screen, which is often very much the case in 1.04.

[Statalyzer]

This game has been out for too long for them to still be trying to balance it with more patches.

[yurihomer]

This game has been out for too long for them to still be trying to balance it with more patches.
i don't know man. Blizzard still takes care of starcraft.

[Zancloufer27]

One thing I dislike about the mod (Quoting self):

Really, I think this patch has gone too far. I prefer fun games than urber balance. Now of course vChina can't beat Toxin, so WHY BE vCHINA VS TOXIN?!? If you go random you are taking a chance that the faction you get will be able to beat the faction you are facing. Making the armies appear in the starting screen is kinda stupid. Sure your strat may not work as China, but the other guy may be in a similar fix.

Now vChina in 1.04/1.05c wasn't the best at 1v1s. However in team games their cheap Migs + Helixs made them an interesting choice. In team games you use one General's Strength to cover another General's Weakness.
I prefer 1.05c atm :\

[C4]

I prefer 1.05c atm :\
I see your point since as China have been boosted it could sustain the surprise (loading screen reveal has been changed because of China) of a random enemy, true. But other modifications were necessary like more USAf nerfing to KRs and also to toxin tunnels. Stealth suffered some changes to his gameplay. In fact, except for terrorcars and maybe the loading screen, i do like all other changes.

[Zancloufer27]

Now there is an argument about making 1.05e MANDATORY for CWs. Now of course CWs is suppose to be for Pros, but those who are not at that level may find 1.05e unplayable. 1.05c was fine. It dealt with most of the major imbalances. Sure it wasn't perfect, but I found it quite enjoyable. Also, what was the point of killing terror cars? Sure they could kill one of China's dozers, but China shouldn't be able to fight off USA and GLA real effectively. China is suppose to be easier to play, and more forgiving of your mistakes. Sure perfect Micro vees rape china, but so do Combat Chinooks, and they haven't been touched. If the USA's Vees get miged, the USA player is fubared.

I still say that a good China can beat USAF in 1.05c, you just need the right tactic.

[scud_nuke]

i like the changes patch bring, china finaly grows some balls bout those terror cars i totaly agree, spamming with those thing in early game makes gla far too good.

[Daishi]

i like the changes patch bring, china finaly grows some balls bout those terror cars i totaly agree, spamming with those thing in early game makes gla far too good.

I think they did it wrong, though. The reason they removed them after the severe nerfs to speed and damage was to make mid builds possible in GLA mirrors, but they could have done so if they just made the cars unable to crush infantry, like Itzan and I were doing in our own balance project (built off of 1.05c)

[Derek]

Yeah, I hated that they killed the cars. The nerfs were good for sure, but completely removing them significantly reduces GLA's options in the early game. I mean, there is pretty much no reason to go forward rax anymore.

[Daishi]

It's because PyRo and Sparky have big heads and they're the only ones willing to support the project after AGM stopped it at 1.05c. They're so sure that as long as its in the name of balance, they might as well nerf time-tried GLA tactics even more, and if a few famous strategies become useless against all enemies, it was a necessary sacrifice, right?

[SgtRicko]

It's because PyRo and Sparky have big heads and they're the only ones willing to support the project after AGM stopped it at 1.05c. They're so sure that as long as its in the name of balance, they might as well nerf time-tried GLA tactics even more, and if a few famous strategies become useless against all enemies, it was a necessary sacrifice, right?

You have just essentially summed up what I hate so much about patches, especially this little monster of a "balance patch." Thank you, and may you live to see a hundred springs and breed children like rabbits with different virile females every time!:gnarly:

(Sorry, but it'll have to do in place of a pos-rep):p

[Daishi]

You have just essentially summed up what I hate so much about patches, especially this little monster of a "balance patch."

No, I don't think I did. You didn't like it when they were only fixing the ugliest problems either and back then it was under the control of a group of people unwilling to make too severe modifications to the armies because they didn't want to alienate CW and the rest of ZHOL.

What you don't like is changes to gameplay elements that are severely overpowered, based only on the fact that you don't agree with the concept that certain issues, even though they were awesome, DO need to be corrected in order to make the game better in all aspects. You complained when they nerfed the King Raptor, anthrax gamma, the C&C3 Wormhole cannon, the visceroid. Maybe you just like to complain, or maybe you're too nervous about the presence of unnecessary changes (I know I tend to be), but leadership has never been your core concern in your negative attitude towards these gameplay modifications.

[scud_nuke]

i must say i realy had some doubt about this patch:chin:, but it turned out 2 be good. it delivers a thing zh players have been waiting for years ballance!!!

[Zancloufer27]

tbh, 1.05e goes TOO far. Some changes where unecicary. tbh, China coulda kept with the cheaper planes + moar expensive tanks.

[Daishi]

tbh, 1.05e goes TOO far. Some changes where unecicary. tbh, China coulda kept with the cheaper planes + moar expensive tanks.

My thoughts exactly. In 1.05e, as opposed to 1.05c, they wanted to shift all the factions back to their original faction design as well as balance them, with little regard for a few good strategies.