Lion's Daily Blurb - Mon., Tues., Sept. 10-11

[Lion]

According to THIS STORY (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296225,00.html), on Monday and Tuesday General David Petraeus, the head of Multinational Forces in Iraq, and Ambassador Ryan Crocker will spend two days testifying in front of four committees on Capitol Hill. In other words, they'll be grilled and toasted by US Senators and House of Representatives from both sides of the aisle in attempts to see if we are gaining ground with the war in Iraq. Without getting too political, and I'll try not to take sides, the majority of Democrats are of the opinion that both the Bush administration's policies and war in Iraq are a dismal failure. Even some Republicans are showing signs of doubt about the Iraq war. Hopefully both sides will keep an open mind and listen to what General Petraeus has to say. Like many Americans, I'm not overly thrilled with how long it's taking to tame Iraq, but I've never visited Iraq and really don't know first hand the situation on the ground there. You can't always believe what you read in papers and see on the TV. There are so called intelligent people in the USA who are of the opinion that IF we pack up and leave now (total withdrawal of troops), the insurgents will stop the attacks, Iran and other Arab countries will lend support to Iraq, and peace will soon follow. Well, no doubt that's EXTREME. Who's of the opinion something like that would work? I'll go first. WHEN PIGS FLY.

[Ace]

I don't know anything can happen down there, its just a mess cause sometimes you hear about areas that are getting cool and civilized and next day you hear of a car bomb or some other bad crap being done by some bad people...
I think best would be to just leave it imo.

[nilloC]

What are the goals of this war again?

[Lion]

What are the goals of this war again?

The same question was posed to WOPR, aka: Joshua in War Games...to win the game of course. Anything short of that should be unacceptable. If America retreats, our credibility will be worth squat. It's already taken a big hit as it is. And there's the US Soldiers to think about. Those who've given their lives for the cause has to count for something. I'm sure some of the soldiers would feel they lose honor if they are not allowed to finish what was started.

[sterio]

So the reason for staying is not to acchieve some ideological goal, but to not have to lose honour?

(BTW, I think the US should stay, because they're responsible for the situation in Iraq today and if they left the Iraqi state simply couldn't handle it)

Those who've given their lives for the cause has to count for something.

What cause?

[Lion]

So the reason for staying is not to acchieve some ideological goal, but to not have to lose honour?
(BTW, I think the US should stay, because they're responsible for the situation in Iraq today and if they left the Iraqi state simply couldn't handle it)
What cause?

By honor I mean a soldiers honor...I assume you would have to be a soldier to fully understand that kind of honor. As far as 'what cause', that would be the original idea...to rid Iraq of weapons of mass destruction, and give the Iraqi peeps a dictator free and peaceful country. We were originally liberators, and most peeps assumed things would be cleaned up in less that a year or two. But the tables were turned on us along the way. Such is life.

[zgtrman97]

I have said this once before.. we are talking about a culture that has been at war with someone since the beginning of time. Also we are not combating a people or a culture but an ideology. Again 10 % of the people are dictating to the other 90% what and how and when things will go on or be.
The hardest thing to do is to kill an ideology. I remember reading about that very thing in school when a little man from Austria tried to do the same thing.. only he did it on a much larger scale than the Iraq war. He did not succeed.
Then there was the Spartans and the Persians...Persia had the mightiest army in the world at that time...failed to squash the ideology.

It would be the same thing if they came over here and attempted to squash the American ideology of freedom...the first thing we would say is.. LOL I DON'T THINK SO. You better pack a lunch.

There is no shame or honor loss for a complete withdraw..and to speak to those who lost their lives...if they were here I am pretty sure that even they would agree with a withdraw. The objective at this point is moot...the people do not want to change..because honestly if they did they would have done it by now...but no they are too caught up in secterian skirmishes as to who will govern. They cannot come together even in the face of adversity and that is sad.. so sad.

[Slapper]

I have said this once before.. we are talking about a culture that has been at war with someone since the beginning of time. Also we are not combating a people or a culture but an ideology. Again 10 % of the people are dictating to the other 90% what and how and when things will go on or be.
The hardest thing to do is to kill an ideology. I remember reading about that very thing in school when a little man from Austria tried to do the same thing.. only he did it on a much larger scale than the Iraq war. He did not succeed.
Then there was the Spartans and the Persians...Persia had the mightiest army in the world at that time...failed to squash the ideology.

It would be the same thing if they came over here and attempted to squash the American ideology of freedom...the first thing we would say is.. LOL I DON'T THINK SO. You better pack a lunch.

Spot on, ive pretty much said that many times here.

Bottom Line: The Russians learned in the 80's what Bush and his buddies did not. You cannot take over and rule a Muslim Country. The Russians backpedaled and left, they could not deal with Fanatacism...Im surprised its taken this long for Bush and cronies, and the American people to figure this one out. You cannot win and cannot defeat ideology, as the last poster said. Mission Impossible as far as the Muslim Faith and its pretexts of looking out for your brothers. Wont ever happen.....As was said and as ive said about 100 times, they have been in conflict in the Middle East for all of recorded history and that will not change because GW Bush wants it to...

Muslims are not afraid of death and welcome it if it is done in the duty of defending Muslims. We do not have that same outlook, the citizens of Europe and North America. We will not die for our Religion and we certainly wont come half way across the world to defend our Religious brothers{if you are Religious that is}

Again, ill remind you all of this fact, because all this talk of a total pullout from Iraq by American Forces....It will never happen.

They did not build 7 Bases with state of the Art technology in them { co-incidentally all along the Iranian Border, that was no mistke , believe me!}} to the tune of over 8 Billion to just hand them over to the Iraqis. Better yet, they did not build them to abandon them to Iran when that day comes. They will never totally leave Iraq and id bet a years wages on that one. They are not about to hand those facilities over to anyone...period. End of story.

America will be in Iraq forever. They may pull out of the cities, they may leave the BS work to the Iraqi Army and Police, but you can bet your booty's they are not leaving. Ever.

Plus, those Bases will be needed, you can figure out for yourselves why, if where they are is a coincidence and what they will use them for and against who....

My personal feelings on this is said best this way: I am a Soldier, and for all those
Parents, Wives, Husbands and Children, all of them from every Country, the Iraqi people as well, to have lost their loved ones in this f****d up War to just walk away now and leave the Iraqis to deal with the mess that has been created by Saddam's removal, well, its just plain ole wrong. And dishonorable to the men and women who have served and/or died for nothing.

If you ask me, the surge has failed and will continue to fail. Muslims do not want Foreigners in their Country's, never have, never will. That being said, you take a good look at the Peacekeeping Missions around the Globe and you tell me who we were keeping apart from killin each other. Sad but true....and man, the truth sucks and a lot of Muslims will deny it, but the truth is there.

Cypress....Golan...Yugoslavia....etc..etc...etc...Muslims in the Middle East and other places close by do not play well with others and doo not share nor tolerate other Religions. They will tell you otherwise and deny the facts, but the facts are there for all of us to see. {Non-Believers}

But, I have to agree with our last poster at the end of the day. The Iraqi people and those who try and govern obviously dont want a change in the status quo, if they did, we all would have seen this by now. Sectarian differences cannot be overcome apparently, the BS arguing also includes who controls what part of Iraq and who controls the Oil money seems more important than peace and Democracy.

Ive said this more than once and ill say it again: Bush and Co. did not think this one through at all, they obviously did not see that Saddam was the guy who kept all those animals apart and kept them from killing each other. What we see today is revenge killings for the most part and old grudges brought to the surface. Noone will stop this, at least no Caucasians who are non-believers. That is for sure.

[warstomp]

According to THIS STORY (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296225,00.html), on Monday and Tuesday General David Petraeus, the head of Multinational Forces in Iraq, and Ambassador Ryan Crocker will spend two days testifying in front of four committees on Capitol Hill. In other words, they'll be grilled and toasted by US Senators and House of Representatives from both sides of the aisle in attempts to see if we are gaining ground with the war in Iraq. Without getting too political, and I'll try not to take sides, the majority of Democrats are of the opinion that both the Bush administration's policies and war in Iraq are a dismal failure. Even some Republicans are showing signs of doubt about the Iraq war. Hopefully both sides will keep an open mind and listen to what General Petraeus has to say. Like many Americans, I'm not overly thrilled with how long it's taking to tame Iraq, but I've never visited Iraq and really don't know first hand the situation on the ground there. You can't always believe what you read in papers and see on the TV. There are so called intelligent people in the USA who are of the opinion that IF we pack up and leave now (total withdrawal of troops), the insurgents will stop the attacks, Iran and other Arab countries will lend support to Iraq, and peace will soon follow. Well, no doubt that's EXTREME. Who's of the opinion something like that would work? I'll go first. WHEN PIGS FLY.

Well the surge worked. It definantly had a lasting effect that paetraus is very satisfied about. Since we don't have iraq security forces done training the extra 21,000 really helped stake our presence in baghdad. The thing is the north is fine the south is fine. But the center is in all havoc. We did a great job on our part we have great armed forces we set up a new goverment we removed the crazy saddam. But the new Al Maliki goverment fails to get anything done. Mabye we need to remove him and put someone else in but he obviously can't get the job done. That and ofcourse the evil snake that is iran funding terrorist cells in iraq is not helping. Look at Afganistan that country is doing great mainly because we did our part and there new goverment is doing spactacular. We just need to get a new president who can really move their country forward. The problem is we are facing the same problem in Vietnam where the media got blamed for us failing. The same thing could happen. The media floods our citizens with constant barrage of WE ARE FAILING WE ARE FAILING WE NEED TO just run and leave and everything will go away. Wrong, we need to stay and our media is just damaging the minds of our great country.

Another thing is we need to be very happy look since 9/11 we have not had a single successfull terrorist attack on our soil. Bush is just one of those presidents not afraid to be hated in his decade but in the future he will come to be a fine president.

[Slapper]

Look at Afganistan that country is doing great mainly because we did our part and there new goverment is doing spactacular.

Say what Bro?

You must not do your homework my man. Afghanistan is NOT doing great, their Government controls 1 little smidgeon of the Country, that being Kabul. And even then, that does not stop the violence at all times....

You doubt what im saying, then we can have a long assed, drawn out discussion of what my fellow Soldiers from Canada and a host of other Countrys face on a daily basis. In case you missed it, a lot of my guys {some of who i call friends and knew them} came home in bodybags. And in case you missed it, attacks in that Country are up about 80 per cent from previous years.

They are not doing great, hell man, they aint even doin ok. They face the same Insurgent tactics the US and Allies face daily in Iraq and you definately do not venture out of Kabul if you are a Foreigner without special permission and armed escorts. nothing personal man, but get your facts straight. Afghanistan is about in the same mess, but on a little smaller scale than Iraq. You doubt me, search some blogs about Soldiers on tour in Afghanistan and then tell me they are doing great.

Or ask me, since ive been there, have friends there and have seen a lot of them not come home. Not in the same numbers as the U.S forces albeit, but that doesnt matter. Good people are dying trying to tame a land and unite a people who do not want the help, nor want to be united. That Country is about Clans, Religion, Family grudges, Warlordism and Drug Cartels. Where theres poppys, theres violence and greed and disrespect for life.

Its a big waste of time and if anyone had payed attention and looked at History concerning Afghanistan and who has attacked it and failed. it should have rang some pretty loud alarm bells. The U.S Military, my own Military and countless others are not up to the task and are no better situated or equipped to deal with Fanatics and Guerilla tactics than the Russians were. Their doctirne to this day does not reflect the enemys capability or resourcefullness at creating an Insurgency. They might be learning, but far too slow to adapt to these kind of tactics. Big Army's cannot contain a smaller force that blends in with the people and surroundings.. No less than 3 Empires and several other powerful countries have tried, including 1 Superpower, and failed, miserably.

Time that the people in Power took a lesson from those books. Ya i know, fat chance of that.

[warstomp]

Say what Bro?

You must not do your homework my man. Afghanistan is NOT doing great, their Government controls 1 little smidgeon of the Country, that being Kabul. And even then, that does not stop the violence at all times....

You doubt what im saying, then we can have a long assed, drawn out discussion of what my fellow Soldiers from Canada and a host of other Countrys face on a daily basis. In case you missed it, a lot of my guys {some of who i call friends and knew them} came home in bodybags. And in case you missed it, attacks in that Country are up about 80 per cent from previous years.

They are not doing great, hell man, they aint even doin ok. They face the same Insurgent tactics the US and Allies face daily in Iraq and you definately do not venture out of Kabul if you are a Foreigner without special permission and armed escorts. nothing personal man, but get your facts straight. Afghanistan is about in the same mess, but on a little smaller scale than Iraq. You doubt me, search some blogs about Soldiers on tour in Afghanistan and then tell me they are doing great.

Or ask me, since ive been there, have friends there and have seen a lot of them not come home. Not in the same numbers as the U.S forces albeit, but that doesnt matter. Good people are dying trying to tame a land and unite a people who do not want the help, nor want to be united. That Country is about Clans, Religion, Family grudges, Warlordism and Drug Cartels. Where theres poppys, theres violence and greed and disrespect for life.

Its a big waste of time and if anyone had payed attention and looked at History concerning Afghanistan and who has attacked it and failed. No less than 3 Empires and several other powerful countries have tried, including 1 Superpower, and failed, miserably.

Time that the people in Power took a lesson from those books. Ya i know, fat chance of that.

Afganistan is in a way better position and there govement is making ground. I kind of doubt you even were in afganistan. Sure they have problems sure its not perfect nothing is. But they are making a lot of progress. Shall I remind you of when we went into afganistan? people cheering all happy we removed the taliban. There is no way to make violence not happen. I mean look at us we have murders and gangs and stuff. Its not ganna be perfect and it never will but we definantly did a hell of a job removing the Taliban and Al queda in the country. I think your just trying to claim afganistan citizens and the insurgents are the same thing? I dunnu whats going on in your mind but they definantly are not the same thing.

I think you just are messed up and thinking we are trying to conquer afgnistan? You put all these things out about other empires invading but where not invading. Heck even the tribal clan leaders reject al queda. THEY DON'T WANT al queda. No offence but you just think the same people who attack our troops are the same ones who are running the goverment and living there.

When I said they are doing great I am speaking of progess with the goverment and military side of removing terrorists. So your telling me we should leave and let the people who attacked the world trade center and the pentagon rebuild and steamroll over afganistan's goverment again? Attack us again at another date?

Now sure the attack percentage has been up. But this is war man. Some people don't just get removed and fall over and say ohhhh well. Some strike back. Its going to be like this for awhile. You just don't understand that some people retaliate.

[Slapper]

LOL!

I dont understand? really now....LOL!

I havent been to Afghanistan and every other ****hole on this planet defending freedom and people for most of my life?

Ill make this short. 27 years in the Canadian Forces, Chief Warrant Officer, 2nd Grade. Im 45 years old, not a kid.

Marched my ass halfway around the Globe to fight and keep the peace, but i would not understand would I?

Im taking this quite personal , but ill leave it alone and assume your new around this forum and didnt bother to read any other posts by me and read some of the things i had to say and some of the stories i have shared with the regulars here, who have been here for years and years.

Next time you choose to insult a Veteran little man, come armed with real info and real opinions not BS and guesses.

Nevermind, i see your really new around here, your 20 posts and joining date say it all. You dont know me and you know jack **** about Afghanistan, Iraq, the people that live there and the people that are fighting there.

Go down to your local recruitment centre, sign up and then serve. Dont talk the talk pal, walk the walk.

Ill leave it at that.

P.S. You forgot 1 thing, your Forces have not removed the Taliban from Afghanistan, because the last time i checked, they still control most of that Country and they are not all dead. And furthermore, what YOU have done , you did not do alone, YOU had help. Your talking as if the US Forces or even you personally are responsible for the little gains made. Get it right nubcake, your All Powerful, all ruling Military did not go it alone and still are not. Better yet, do what i said, search blogs and read what the People serving there have to say. Nevermind asking me, i know nothing and i dont understand. But of course, you being young, you being a Civvie, that makes you an authority on all of this, and you sure as hell know more than me, because, golly gee gosh, i dont get it at all. I met more than 1 like you on this forum and others, at the end , you always shove your foot in your mouth trying to talk sense because you are the ones that dont have a clue. Until youve been there, seen it and talked to some of those people, you are the one who doesnt understand. You only know what you see on CNN and see from Armchair experts such as yourself. If CNN said it , it must be true, Afghanistan is doin GREAT!...lol...right.

Like i said tough guy, stop talking and march down to the Recruitment Center and volunteer to go to Afghanistan so you can see for yourself how GREAT it is there. Oh and btw, watch out for those IED's stuffed with rose petals..they sting ya know.

P.S.S Apologys for coming across a little strong, but i hate it when i get insulted for supplying real facts and sharing and relating real life experiences, and some snot nosed kid tells me i dont know jack. It goes with the Rank kid, i dont take BS well. Warrant Officers in my Military and yours are not known to have a sense of humor nor do they like to be told they are wrong. Like i said, join up and find out for yourself.

[warstomp]

LOL!

I dont understand? really now....LOL!

I havent been to Afghanistan and every other ****hole on this planet defending freedom and people for most of my life?

Ill make this short. 27 years in the Canadian Forces, Chief Warrant Officer, 2nd Grade. Im 45 years old, not a kid.

Marched my ass halfway around the Globe to fight and keep the peace, but i would not understand would I?

Im taking this quite personal , but ill leave it alone and assume your new around this forum and didnt bother to read any other posts by me and read some of the things i had to say and some of the stories i have shared with the regulars here, who have been here for years and years.

Next time you choose to insult a Veteran little man, come armed with real info and real opinions not BS and guesses.

Nevermind, i see your really new around here, your 20 posts and joining date say it all. You dont know me and you know jack **** about Afghanistan, Iraq, the people that live there and the people that are fighting there.

Go down to your local recruitment centre, sign up and then serve. Dont talk the talk pal, walk the walk.

Ill leave it at that.

P.S. You forgot 1 thing, your Forces have not removed the Taliban from Afghanistan, because the last time i checked, they still control most of that Country and they are not all dead. And furthermore, what YOU have done , you did not do alone, YOU had help. Your talking as if the US Forces or even you personally are responsible for the little gains made. Get it right nubcake, your All Powerful, all ruling Military did not go it alone and still are not. Better yet, do what i said, search blogs and read what the People serving there have to say. Nevermind asking me, i know nothing and i dont understand. But of course, you being young, you being a Civvie, that makes you an authority on all of this, and you sure as hell know more than me, because, golly gee gosh, i dont get it at all. I met more than 1 like you on this forum and others, at the end , you always shove your foot in your mouth trying to talk sense because you are the ones that dont have a clue. Until youve been there, seen it and talked to some of those people, you are the one who doesnt understand. You only know what you see on CNN and see from Armchair experts such as yourself. If CNN said it , it must be true, Afghanistan is doin GREAT!...lol...right.

Like i said tough guy, stop talking and march down to the Recruitment Center and volunteer to go to Afghanistan so you can see for yourself how GREAT it is there. Oh and btw, watch out for those IED's stuffed with rose petals..they sting ya know.

P.S.S Apologys for coming across a little strong, but i hate it when i get insulted for supplying real facts and sharing and relating real klife experiences, and some snot nosed kid tells me i dont know jack. It goes with the Rank kid, i dont take BS well.

First off I watch foxnews not CNN I can't stand CNN its to democratly biased. I never said the US did it alone I know there was a cooalition. Besides the media as I said before does not ever say anything positive about wars. Its always everythings bad (which is untrue). I know you went through a lot defending freedoms and what not but you try and say that the same people who attack us on 9/11 and day to day are the same ordinary citizens. you never awnser this question you always ignore it. The people who live and run the new goverment are different then the terrorists.

I never even was trying to insult you I was just telling you your wrong. I have heard from plenty of soldiers posititive things about progress being made. I dunnu if its just all of canada is full of whiners or what but most of the soldiers I hear from tell another story they you are putting out. No offence im not trying to start an anti-canada thing I just wonder since you say all your buddies think the same.

I don't even want to join the military its good for some not for others. I appreciate your sacrifices but I think you are putting out the wrong story. As I pointed out before I have talked to plenty of soldiers who tell a way different story than you are telling. One that talks about the progresses and things.

But awnser this question why do you think the same people who attack our soldiers are the ones who were chanting in the streets praising coalition forces as they liberated town after town.

Also don't you think that enemys retaliate? you make it out like you go into war win and the enemy never wants to come back or retaliate. you said " And in case you missed it, attacks in that Country are up about 80 per cent from previous years". Our commanders have been warning us of this for a long time. Its just what happens an enemy retaliates.

[Yogel]

First off I watch foxnews

Yet another reason why we shouldn't listen to a word your saying....

Personally i gotta side with Slapper on this one.

though i do not think we should withdraw our troops at all, I believe that will cause a surge of activity from terrorist groups(ultimately leading to the next 9/11)

[MercZ]

Iraq is a mess, and the people in much of the southern parts of the country don't really want Americans there. Though I'd like to see a pull out soon, I'd also do not want the Americans to leave the Kurds high and dry, since they were really the only ones who actually tried to help out. When the 101st landed, they aided the elements to go into Mosul and other hot spots without error. Hell, their region is stable enough that suicide bombings and other such violence is a rarity, and the Americans had stopped making patrols there a year back, since they really already had security in to their own hands. If anything, Americans should try to leave a small force of soldiers there. That way, at least, they'll be surrounded by people who, for the most part, actually thank them for getting rid of Saddam, and they can establish a better base in the region.

[SirSnake]

This conversation has gone on to a detailed debate im not gonna enter, but for my tuppence worth:


The leaving of Iraq would be a naiive thing to expect, when america go in to a place, they like to think they can keep their thumb in the pie (see how many bases they have in germany), but thats only to be expected, id be surprised if the average "super-power" didnt do that.

On the other hand, the more realistic withdrawal of actual troops from there (at least in the sense of the obvious army) wouldnt be a scar on the "honour" of the troops serving there or who have died there. I would, im sure most troops would, like to believe they died for a good reason or cause, but to be blunt; that doesnt always happen.

That doesnt take away from their sacrifice any, they joined the armed forces for the sake of protecting their country, their beliefs, their ideals (etc), and if they died in a place that arguably wasnt so important, well, they made the ultimate sacrifice, and politics may mar what they did, but they have more guts that im prepared to give.

The crucial point of the meeting is to decide on progress on the war, IE whether to carry on there or not. Honour among soliders may be a worthy concept, but if it comes to that or seeing our troops (I consider "our" to be British, canadian, american) returned safely home to fight another day, i would rather that.

Honestly, I think most soliders out there would that too, and no one could criticise them for returning, no honour lost. Id rather they lived than died for a war that doesnt seem to be going anywhere.

I have a cousin out in afghanistan, from the letters he sends home, i can tell you this; peace is a concept far from the lives of most there. No-one seems to focus there anymore, but when a loved one might die any day, i simply cannot see that place as a success.

In short, this war, of course, has achieved some good, the removal of a cruel regime, the certainty of the lack of mass weapons, but if I could see most of the armed forces return back home today, id put my signature on that contract without hesitation.

[sniperelite7]

All that stuff aside. The democrats better shove a cork in there ass and shutup. Same goes for Republicans. You know what? Why don't all the politicians go to hell. I have faith in my country's generals and troops. Its there job to fight and win wars.
As for is all this war on terror stuff right? I don't know. All I know is that the Middle-east is a cesspool. Filled with tyrants, terrorist, and dictators. Very few can actually harm America directly. But as time goes by they will slowly gain the means to do real harm.

[Ace]

I dont know after reading alot here maybe its best if us stays a year or so until next summer. That might be enough time. I dunno if Us stays in the mid east , iraq i think they would just end up like israel and try to dodge suicide bombers and home made rockets and stuff :gnarly:
I dont know if irans really makes so much effect on iraq for real.
I think all they would like is to be friends with iraq cause they are neighbours and maybe try to turn their goverment into us hating like themselves :p
Maybe irans goverment is pushing the new iraq goverment "kick 'em out!" all the time :D cause if Us had bases in iraq it would be a hell of a lot easier to move in on Iran from there if they felt the need to. But if they did they would have to march in alone, but hey in 10 years maybe they could get the iraqi troops with them for support? :) Thought of a cool idea would be if Us had a satelite that could sniff out Ak's or bombs by some heat signature or other way from the air and plot it out on a map. Would make terrorism hunting more easier..

[SgtRicko]

Iraq is a mess, and the people in much of the southern parts of the country don't really want Americans there. Though I'd like to see a pull out soon, I'd also do not want the Americans to leave the Kurds high and dry, since they were really the only ones who actually tried to help out. When the 101st landed, they aided the elements to go into Mosul and other hot spots without error. Hell, their region is stable enough that suicide bombings and other such violence is a rarity, and the Americans had stopped making patrols there a year back, since they really already had security in to their own hands. If anything, Americans should try to leave a small force of soldiers there. That way, at least, they'll be surrounded by people who, for the most part, actually thank them for getting rid of Saddam, and they can establish a better base in the region.

I'm sorry, but it's not that easy in the case of the Kurds. They might have had a pretty nasty and traumatic history as of recently, but there's a reason why. For most of their history, the Kurdish people have largely refused to integrate whereever they go to the point of wanting autonomy and have even carried out terror attacks in the past as well. Furthermore, the region generally looks down on their culture personal view of Islam, so as you can imagine, trying to do anything to improve the Kurdish condition permanently (i.e. give them special treatment, access to the Kurkuk oil fields, self govt, etc) will only piss off their neighbors to no end.

[KrasnyOktyabr]

10 years from now Iraq is going to be a standard overseas tour for U.S. forces, be it with a U.S. backed government or not.

[MercZ]

I'm sorry, but it's not that easy in the case of the Kurds. They might have had a pretty nasty and traumatic history as of recently, but there's a reason why. For most of their history, the Kurdish people have largely refused to integrate whereever they go to the point of wanting autonomy

Saladin helped the Arabs when he could've easily manipulated the chaos to start an independent state, and why most Kurds worked well with the Caliphate for the most part. Or why the Kurds for the most part remained part of the Ottoman Empire with no fuss. They got their own Provence centered in Diyarbakir and could do what they wished as long as they worked alongside the Ottomans, until their decline in power and the rise of the Young Turks. For the most part they did that with Persia as well, with the exception of the Battle of Dim Dim. Back then they were largely allowed to speak their own language and practice their culture, and they didn't care so much past that.

It was the 1900s when they got these ambitions, and it was mainly since they were no longer acknowledged as a true people by anyone. In many places, mainly Mahabad, the Kurds began these movements knowing the state of the puppets that were being set up with leaders who couldn't care less about minorities. The only way for them to guarantee their rights was to set up their own state, and that set the gears in motion.

If you look in Iraq's history you'll see that they had resistance against the regimes. Through out the 1960s the Kurds didn't mind the Ba'ath regime since they were given rights, and many helped them against the Rebel Kurds when the first uprising in the 60s occured. They didn't mind making a peace with Saddam when he came to power officially in the 1970s, with promises that the Kurds would be able to practice their culture with out being oppressed. Most were OK with that, with the exception of a few groups who were looking to benefit off the recent regime change a decade back. It's when Saddam began to get rid and kill of the Kurds he appointed to governmental seats and began deporting and killing Kurds in the mid 70sthey got loud again. He started chipping away at their culture, and that's why they took action.

and have even carried out terror attacks in the past as well.If you are referring to Turkey, yes they have. Their terror tactics increased throughout the 90s under Ogalan, but the Turks largely refuse to acknowledge what they've done to them in the years before and following concerning human rights violations. Before Ogalan, the PKK mainly aimed at the military rule that was set in when the Kurds began to resist what Ataturk was calling for in his new Turkey. Turks increased the heat on the Kurds once Ocalan came along and started the PKK bombing and murdering sprees (a lot that killed Kurds) and started increasing military action and a martial law; to the international eyes the army's destruction of villages was a deterrent against future attacks.

Kurds who fought against Saddam didn't harm civilians. There were cases when some of their men got out of control, but for the most part they didn't harm civilians. Saddam on the other hand unleashed Al-Anfal on them, and killed well over 100,000 indiscriminately in his purge.

Furthermore, the region generally looks down on their culture personal view of Islam, so as you can imagine, trying to do anything to improve the Kurdish condition permanently (i.e. give them special treatment, access to the Kurkuk oil fields, self govt, etc) will only piss off their neighbors to no end.Kurds for the most part seem to be as Muslim as anyone else in the region. They fast, they hold prayer, and are moderate in practice. They do not force women to wear the hijab and other practicies. But it's really not their religious views that are bugging the people around them, it's the fact that there's a large group of people wanting rights in an important cross-roads of the Middle-East. If they started giving them rights, they could no longer exploit their tribal ambitions and pride for cheap gains.

The current heads of the Kurdish political groups in Northern Iraq, chiefly the larger ones of the KDP and PUK don't want separation really. They'd rather be a federal state in Iraq, so that way they can still have access to ports and oil lines, and want better relations with the Turks to the north of them so they can work with trade to Europe. They know a separate state isn't viable. They just want to be able to speak Kurdish, name their kids Kurdish names, and practice their culture in peace. The Turkish government can yell all they want, but for the most part the people don't see a reason. A lot of them honestly have gotten rich off the trade and project grants they're getting from the regional government. The Turks, as ironic it sounds, would rather see a stable Northern Iraq than one that is like the rest of Iraq. They've also began to set up trade with Dubai to help benefit from similar growth. All they really want is a guarantee they can keep their state within Iraq and practice their culture. They don't really want a separate state, just a guarantee of their rights and the prevention of another heavily centralized state.

For the most part, the Kurdish Government in Northern Iraq has been handling their political issues much more diplomatically than their cousins to the south. The Americans should at least keep a stronger eye on the Kurds. If the matter of Turks and Kurds are settled (and the matter is much more better than it was 20 years ago), the Americans and other western nations will have a much more better influence in the region.

[Sa‘idKa]

Hello,

I am Iraqi, and I must tell you what our people think or at least the general thoughts of Iraqis. I am from the west side of Baghdad, most of us there are Sunnah though 90% of all Islam is that. I say Saddam was better than now because we had more peace. I know Saddam was a bad man against anyone against him but if you followed rules and not go against him you were left alone. I had fled from Baghdad last year to move to America (East Coast) in hopes of the violence dying down later and my father picked up a laptop and I got Command and Conquer 3. We had much during Saddam like McDonalds and Dillards and I even had a BMW. Many people were getting killed for no reason. And it was not Iraqis to commit this. They were outsiders like Syria and Iran. I wish for my country to get better and I trust America to stay. Back home everyone wanted America to protect them because America respected our Mosques and our people greatly and did not care for religion. We have a lot of other religions here including Christianity. The violence is bad but it has been dying down in my side of Baghdad. The Iran, nobody likes the Iranians as they are crazy. When escaping I had go through Fallujah and saw American soldier shaking his gun at our car. Nobody likes these road blocks but a lot of people like me find confort in knowing they are there and that America will stay until we rid our nation of foreigners. I hate Malaki and he has done nothing but trouble with Iran. We want a peaceful Iraq and if America can provide and stay hope with us we support them. We do not trust Europe so much as we see them as coward and causers of our trouble. Stay with us America please!

Excuse my poor english skills,
Sa'id K.

[sterio]

Thank you for posting, it's great to see an Iraqi comment on the situation in Iraq. I just want to ask you one thing: How is the current situation the fault of Europe? (I can see certain reasons, but I'd like to know what you're thinking of.) Also, are you talking about the European Union, or all the individual countries of Europe themselves?

[HawkEye1102002]

I have looked at the situation in Alfghanistan, and I have come to the conclusion that it is more winnable than most people see it to be, but the method of winning the troubles in Alfghanistan would be very contrevertial

The Taliban is getting support from the locals, which include pesants who grow opeum fields, the Allied forces come in and burn their crops and replace the crops with something like mint - which is practically worthless there - while I accept that some farmers in Alfghanistan should grow corn crops for grain but it is practically worthless.

The Taliban is gaining support from the locals because they buy their opeum and allow them to grow it - onto medical detail, the British NHS is lacking in the morphine drugs - we can make morphine out of opeum - now if the Allies buy the opeum from the local Alfghanistan farmers at a much higher price than the Taliban is offering the locals, then as the locals become more well off, they will side with us as we are strengthening their econamy, the Taliban will loose support from the locals, sadly this may result in loss of life as the Taliban may do a reprisal on the pesants (which means the pesants will hate the Taliban) - the result will be the Taliban will shrink, and with a bit of luck, die out from Alfghanistan - but will probibly fully move into Pakistan (as they are mostly there allready)

[MercZ]

We had much during Saddam like McDonalds and Dillards and I even had a BMW.

I don't think there was ever a "Dillards" or a "McDonalds" in Baghdad. Saddam was very Pan-Arab, and the last thing he would've done was to open up his country to large Western industries- he'd let local businessmen handle similar kinds of businesses under the government's economic plans.

Regardless, it's good that you're safe. Post some pictures or more impressions or something. We don't get too many on the internet, aside from people analyzing the events.