Unit Thread

[Avapodnaught]

Do you think that some times some units can be kind of weird in how they work?
This thread is to exploit some units you see as a bit off for its price and counterparts and explain why you think that and what units it is off towards


Militant Squad= This squad is the same price as the buzzer and less than the rifle squad, but can kill a buzzer squad and survive a riflemen squad by just firing at the rife squad first

Devastators = Once you start building them infantry and most defenses become mute, and are hard to destroy because they come with tripods (gdi and nod have a little delayed reaction in getting venoms and firehawks unless they were already building them

Masterminds = too fast with too much armor, only weak against those who see them and can deploy some snipers or shadow teams (nod is more likely to have shadows) or buzzers (mirror scrin) to try and catch it (or possibly venoms)

Sonic Emitters = I know it is going to be weakened, but it is still way more powerful than the other ones, if you are basewalked (it happens on 1v1 maps, unless they are the ones that are city based), it can hurt more units than it should, is the most effective vs infantry, and hurts more vehicles then it should at a time (this is mainly a problem when they have other emitters or vehicles when you could easily spread out, which you shouldn't need to do)

Commandos = they have paper thin armor, it is like they have the armor of a single rifleman at some times, one sniper or maybe two, a couple of buzzers, shadow squad, enough rocket men, so on, they just can't beat a couple of squads of infantry)

[Delta-4]

Militant Squad= This squad is the same price as the buzzer and less than the rifle squad, but can kill a buzzer squad and survive a riflemen squad by just firing at the rife squad firstErm...what?
Devastators = Once you start building them infantry and most defenses become mute, and are hard to destroy because they come with tripods (gdi and nod have a little delayed reaction in getting venoms and firehawks unless they were already building themTends to get quite annoying when fighting computer players and they keep sending just a single Devastator to sit there and piss off your defenses while doing practically no damage at all.
Commandos = they have paper thin armor, it is like they have the armor of a single rifleman at some times, one sniper or maybe two, a couple of buzzers, shadow squad, enough rocket men, so on, they just can't beat a couple of squads of infantry)Commandoes have pretty good armor, so I don't know what you're talking about. I know a Nod Commando can take a full barrage from an upgraded Mammoth Tank before she'll die which is damn good for a person without any visible armor (Unless the eyepatch has some kind of metal plating in it. :wtf: ).
And as for being unable to take out a few squads of infantry...what the -blam!- are you talking about? Commandoes go through infantry like a plasma shot through paper.

[Avapodnaught]

Well for the commando I believe that if you force fired on it a bit with a single infantry squad (buzzers op if it gets close of course) that it will die pretty fast if it doesn't fight back and lets the entire squad engulf it with fire

And lets say you sent ten 200 dollar militia squads at one commando, I think it would lose their too

[SgtRicko]

Masterminds = too fast with too much armor, only weak against those who see them and can deploy some snipers or shadow teams (nod is more likely to have shadows) or buzzers (mirror scrin) to try and catch it (or possibly venoms)


Are you kidding? All the Mastermind is good for now is the Mothership trick, any more nerfs and we might as well stop building it altogether!

And as for the militants being capable of beating a Commando... we'll, its 50/50 really. Until the Militants get both the confessor and Tib infusion upgrade, they're pretty much screwed against everybody, Commandos especially. Once they do though, then you'll notice the tables change real fast since a single hallucinogen grenade can mess up the Commando or his quite entirely.

[Avapodnaught]

Hmm, have you ever seen one of those games where they have a lone refinery and then a mastermind captures it and sells it? after building another refinery, and they also use them to capture a building in your base and deploy lightning spikes (also by refs and war facs), its quite damaging if you are trying to pump out enough units to beat tripods, and devastators

It doesn't matter what kind of infantry and how they are upgraded when facing a commando, it still has weak armor when versing an entire fleet of them

[SgtRicko]

The Mastermind is only troublesome of you are GDI since their guard towers aren't too good against large groups or heavy inf targets; otherwise, he's easily killed by a single shredder hub or buzzer swarm summon. You just need to do it quickly before he gets out of range, that's all.

As for the Commando... well yeah, it's supposed to be like that. The only time they'll become a true infantry meat grinder is when they reach Heroic status, cause otherwise they're actually kinda weak vs large groups of... well, anything.

[Avapodnaught]

Sad how some things turn out, isn't it

[Chev]

Sad how some things turn out, isn't it


How about the NoD Attack Bike and Raider Buggy?

Attack Bike: Quick, but Overall pritty useless, gets owned by every (air) unit in the game imo not worth building (they should be stealth without having to use a $3000 ability), also no special ability.

Raider Buggy: With laser upgrade it's ok to have since they can counter infantry and air quite good, but useless vs any other (example: GDI's predator tank). EMP upgrade doesn't have enough range and hard to execute an defenite suicide ability.

[SgtRicko]

Raider bikes totally pwn harvesters and slow moving targets, and can even detect stealth. Furthermore, they're pretty cheap, so I'd have to disagree Chev.

The Raider Buggy on the other hand is a different story. Before patch 1.05, it was actually pretty good as an anti inf and anti air unit in the early game, but for some reason or another EA decided to nerf its attack power against air and ground targets, which didn't help it very much. Furhermore, the EMP ability is more of a hazard to yourself than a boon since it tends always catch some of your men in the blast as well.

[Chev]

Raider bikes totally pwn harvesters and slow moving targets, and can even detect stealth. Furthermore, they're pretty cheap, so I'd have to disagree Chev.

The Raider Buggy on the other hand is a different story. Before patch 1.05, it was actually pretty good as an anti inf and anti air unit in the early game, but for some reason or another EA decided to nerf its attack power against air and ground targets, which didn't help it very much. Furhermore, the EMP ability is more of a hazard to yourself than a boon since it tends always catch some of your men in the blast as well.

Thanks for the reply, gues the Attack Bike is one of my own underused/underestimated units... I usually try using stealth tanks for harvaster harassment :devil: 3 of those babies do the trick nicely, but it's later in game offc.

But i gues i'll try it out!


So what are you thoughts about the Flame Tank?
I think there primary usefull in the beginning of the game or as a suicide (stealth) unit :devil:

Either:
1. Demolish base defences (aa, gun turret)
2. 4x Flame Tank + Cloaking Field and sneak behind enemy lines (lots of micro)
Usage against any armored unit, or even rocket infantry is non existant imo.

Also i think there missing a special ability like flame wall (i.e. Generals) or Napalm explotion when it dies.

Also i intentionally left clearing garrisoned building (start game) out, since black hand's are way better at this since there usually place rocket squads in buildings (offcourse this doesn't count vs snipers)

Imho Black hands are way tougher then flame tanks, but also got less attack power (not sure about that!).

[SgtRicko]

Yeah, you're pretty much spot-on with the flame tank!;)

[Delta-4]

Also i think there missing a special ability like flame wall (i.e. Generals) or Napalm explotion when it dies.It does have this. Move a squadron of infantry through a flame tank's wreckage after it just died and watch them drop.
Imho Black hands are way tougher then flame tanks, but also got less attack power (not sure about that!).
Flame tanks have much more attack power. They can go through buildings and infantry like an ion blast or a flock of buzzers. Obviously, the main problem is getting them in close enough. :dead:

This brings up another question for me, though; why did EA not give infantry a flame death animation like in Generals? I say it would've been cool and funny at times to see flaming infantry run off in front of a squad of Black Hand or a flame tank. Hell, I wouldn't care if they just reused the Generals burning infantry animation/unit, it would've just been a nice addition.

[Avapodnaught]

They have a special scream where they all die at once :p

Chev, attack bike is supposed to be weak, but unfortunately I think as it is against the same cash amount of pitbulls is useless, but in the same dollar amount vs predators I think they would win, u just need micro, and it would have to be as time goes on 5 preds vs 11 bikes, I vote bikes with someone good, but I could be wrong

I don't know why but I used to think a flame squad was more costly than a flame tank, but im sure it is better to sneak in flame troopers and build tanks for defense than build flame tanks and use an expensive upgrade, but I guess it would depend on the map (large map, flamers, smaller map, infantry attack)

I wish I could have had a heroic harvester, but I can't convince my opponent to waste their cash on weak infantry squads :dead:

[Chev]

On a small map i gues flame tanks would be more usefull (especially if it's a city map) still i think there too vurnerable to be used out in the open.

Next subject:
Air units!

GDI
Orca: Primary good vs vehicles, quick, fast firing but fragile
Firehawk: not good vs vehicles, bust still best option imho air-to-air and air-to-ground missles (2 each) good value for money

Conclution: Orca's can be great, but they do require a landing pad, and mostly the firehawk is picked for it's superior power vs structures, and less vulnerable vs AA.

NOD
Venom: A small verry fast chopper with a gun turret and available laser upgrade. Usefull for countering air units, medium armor and attack power but get owned quick by AA.

Vertigo Bomber: Not as strong or quick as the Firehawk air-to-ground, but stealth and verry usefull for suprise attacks. They carry 1 bomb with a reasonable spash damige (3 predator tanks with 2 bombs if there standing in a row)

SCRIN
Drone Ship - Curious enough it's the SCRIN mcv only buildable with the Gravity Stablilizer (air unit building).

Stormrider - Basicy alien F16 for vs air and ground, medium firepower

Devastator Warship - Artillery from the sky, slow&heavy armored

Planetary Assault Carrier - Alot of small drones fly around this ship shooting
at everything they can, powerfull (especially with shielding) and exeptionally usefull because it can generate an ion storm to improve the attack power of Scrin arial units.

Final conclusion: Exept for the scrin arial combat is pritty normal. NOD Fast and stealth, GDI special ability's + heavy damige, SCRIN is micro+special ability's.

(damn long post :rofl: yea don't have much to do at work atm :sleep:)

[SgtRicko]

You summed it up fairly well. The only thing I have to add is that the stormrider is actually fairly decent vs. pretty much everything when used in hunting packs except against garrisoned buildings and heavy infantry.

Oh, one more thing: the Orca kicks ass in tight urban environments!:cool:

[CO Valle]

And remember that the Stormrider doesn't need to RTB to reload.

@ Delta-4

Wasn't RA2 and not Generals? (about the flame death animation).

[Delta-4]

Every C&C from Tiberian Dawn to Generals had a burning infantry animation, but, for some whacky reason, not Tiberium Wars. :wtf:

[Avapodnaught]

Every C&C from Tiberian Dawn to Generals had a burning infantry animation, but, for some whacky reason, not Tiberium Wars. :wtf:
I like how they die all at once and think it is enough, also I like their special all at once scream (best with scrin units, not buzzers)

Well chev all bigger maps you want to have those flame tanks hitting them fast and to scare em off from attacking (specially vs gdi, because those who pack a lot of preds will kill you as soon as they figure out your at weakness for spending so much money, so first thing to hit is their war factories and if they come for you spam tanks and rocket men for defence)
Flamer infantry will be harder to kill and actually for their price do pretty sizable damage to buildings

The only thing I dont' like about air for all is that you need a radar building, and you usually tech up after that so if you have a crane at all it could be some use to you

Orcas are pretty good but only a use to those who can use them and tech up so they have defenses (tanks, infantry, which make it easier to defend harder to tech up) and can place the orcas on the battlefield, which noone does often
So I think that making airpads so hard to get for it is just something in the way of getting full tech, unless you can have a strat that you get to do this and have the enemy at bay (im gonna make one once I find out how to do this)

Nod's Vertigo isn't much of a hit and run unit as it is a defensive and offensive, unless you have it cloaked over their base and attack

Scrin has the best early air in comparison to others but air alone can be a disadvantage for a fast tech up and a weakness to those who do a full techup rush
Stormriders can actually go well with the scrin battle vehicle (not the seeker, the devourer) for a good rush making the enemy build anti air while you own one or two harvies and can do damage by pulling them back and striking again
Devastators are the great flying artillery which affect men the most atm, but soon will not be able to kill their moneys worth as fast as they did (shields might help)
PACs I dont' build much of, because they are one of the most late game units possible and many early anti air are available

[Wildfire]

I like using Orca's as defense something just placin them in critical choke points and letting them sit there, of course you have to hot key them because th ey wont' run if they start getting hit by AA, actually, what they'll do is fire at the AA, go back and reload then go back to the same spot, usually passing right over whatever AA was tearing th em up and not firng back until they get back to the area where you had them guarding, so frustrating.

Personally, I don't think GDI needs that new ORCA in Kane's Wrath, at least not with gun's like that c'mon, give the ORCA the ability to switch between guns and rockets or, give it HE rocktes or Flechette rockets. You're tellin me 50 years in the future that out air units will be that ineffective vs infantry? Heh...Hey, how about an ORCA Battleship with railguns lmao that'd be great huh?

[Chev]

I like using Orca's as defense something just placin them in critical choke points and letting them sit there, of course you have to hot key them because th ey wont' run if they start getting hit by AA, actually, what they'll do is fire at the AA, go back and reload then go back to the same spot, usually passing right over whatever AA was tearing th em up and not firng back until they get back to the area where you had them guarding, so frustrating.

Personally, I don't think GDI needs that new ORCA in Kane's Wrath, at least not with gun's like that c'mon, give the ORCA the ability to switch between guns and rockets or, give it HE rocktes or Flechette rockets. You're tellin me 50 years in the future that out air units will be that ineffective vs infantry? Heh...Hey, how about an ORCA Battleship with railguns lmao that'd be great huh?


Well it's still a game and a game needs balance ;) Offcourse light armored quick chopper can only carry a certain amount of heavy rockets, still I imagine they would have alot more rockets (i.e. hellfire).

SCRIN units:

Devourer Tank and Corrupter i rarely see these on the battlefield, how come? Are they to weak?
I don't have much scrin play experiance :shy:

/discuss

[SgtRicko]

The reason peeps don't use Devourer tanks is because they cost too much for what they do, are hard to micro in tight spots, and are pretty fragile. Maybe if they had more armor or were a teeny bit cheaper, they might actually be effective.

[Chev]

The reason peeps don't use Devourer tanks is because they cost too much for what they do, are hard to micro in tight spots, and are pretty fragile. Maybe if they had more armor or were a teeny bit cheaper, they might actually be effective.

Any sight on if there being improved then? I've read that when you 'feed' them tiberium they can shoot 10x with much more firepower (does green or blue make a difference here?)

Might be worth it to make a few, feed them mana and put them as base defence vs tanks ect :devil: (hold fire stance and only shoot at armor & leave infantry to buzzers and arials)

[SgtRicko]

Yeah, that works. Still though, its just best to use them for harvester harassment, since the charging process requires a certain amount of tiberium.

[Chev]

Yeah, that works. Still though, its just best to use them for harvester harassment, since the charging process requires a certain amount of tiberium.

Might be worth a try to suck the enemy's tiberium dry since SCRIN doesn't have stealth harvasters :devil:

Build 10 suck up tiberium, shoot enemy harvasters, move out and repeat? :hyper:
hehe just a theorie though

Anyway, how about the Devourer Tank, i've read it repairs to little and doesn't do enough damige to infantry to be of real use.

[Avapodnaught]

Might be worth a try to suck the enemy's tiberium dry since SCRIN doesn't have stealth harvasters :devil:

Build 10 suck up tiberium, shoot enemy harvasters, move out and repeat? :hyper:
hehe just a theorie though

Anyway, how about the Devourer Tank, i've read it repairs to little and doesn't do enough damige to infantry to be of real use.
Don't you mean Corrupter? I don't think devourers can heal, but I heard some peep say online that a devourer is better than rocket men, Id have to check it out though
Yeah, that works. Still though, its just best to use them for harvester harassment, since the charging process requires a certain amount of tiberium.
It only takes up one full crystal patch, even less, this will be more favorable when tiberium is worth less

[Chev]

Don't you mean Corrupter? I don't think devourers can heal, but I heard some peep say online that a devourer is better than rocket men, Id have to check it out though
Was rather thinking of the Devourer Tank using up tiberium to charge there attacks, and therefore 'farming' away your enemy's tiberium (clearly i'm not SCRIN player :lol:).
Corruptors can heal, but i heard there not working good enough to use, not sure myself tbh.


It only takes up one full crystal patch, even less, this will be more favorable when tiberium is worth less
Exactly.

Other subject:
Shock Troopers vs Zone Trooper

Zone trooper:
- Power Packs (extra hitpoints + healing when standing still)
- Scanner Packs (detecting stealth)

Shock Troopers:
- Plasma Disc Launchers (Anti-Air)
- Blink Pack (teleport ability)

*quote fixed

[Avapodnaught]

Was rather thinking of the Devourer Tank using up tiberium to charge there attacks, and therefore 'farming' away your enemy's tiberium (clearly i'm not SCRIN player :lol:).
Corruptors can heal, but i heard there not working good enough to use, not sure myself tbh.


Exactly.

Other subject:
Shock Troopers vs Zone Trooper

Zone trooper:
- Power Packs (extra hitpoints + healing when standing still)
- Scanner Packs (detecting stealth)

Shock Troopers:
- Plasma Disc Launchers (Anti-Air)
- Blink Pack (teleport ability)
Hey, to fix that quote error add a / in the second "[quote]" right before the word quote and after the bracket


Shock troopers beat zone troopers fully upgraded, but scanner packs are useless as they already detect stealth, if you want a small boost, go for it, not my money

Plasma Disk Launchers are so not only anti air, it makes them very powerful against infantry and hi powered tanks, like the mammoth, two shock trooper squads would die against a railgun mammoth alone without squish, but upgraded squads would win

Zone troopers are better against vehicles and structures, but once scrin upgrades shock troopers with the disk launchers they are better for your dollar (800 vs 1200)

The upgrade allowing shock troopers to teleport is obviously underused as it provides no other use that I know of (maybe scanner packs and teleport add defense, but I don't know)

[SgtRicko]

There is one other reason to get the scanner pack: it increases the Zone Trooper's visual range as well. Pretty handy if you're behind enemy lines and need some quick recon done!;)

[Avapodnaught]

There is one other reason to get the scanner pack: it increases the Zone Trooper's visual range as well. Pretty handy if you're behind enemy lines and need some quick recon done!;)
Otherwise send a cheap unit that is cheaper than the upgrade, say a pitbull?

[Chev]

Otherwise send a cheap unit that is cheaper than the upgrade, say a pitbull?
Intresting, would a cheap unit really be more usefull then a visual range upgrade? I doubt it tbh
The upgrade gives you a wider visial range and i think a wider stealth detect range wich can be verry usefull for countering stealth.
Anyone tried countering a stealth tank with an (upgraded) Zone trooper or Shock trooper?
I recon they own the stealth tank big time if you keep him moving around a bit ^^.
But talking about cheap units:
Pitbull vs Raider Buggy vs Seeker
Imo i think it's strengh order would be Seeker(strongest), PB and then RB (weakest).
Were all fammiliar with the Seeker spam (steamroller), it's dealt with with a patch allready/soonish (?).

[Avapodnaught]

Intresting, would a cheap unit really be more usefull then a visual range upgrade? I doubt it tbh
The upgrade gives you a wider visial range and i think a wider stealth detect range wich can be verry usefull for countering stealth.
Anyone tried countering a stealth tank with an (upgraded) Zone trooper or Shock trooper?
I recon they own the stealth tank big time if you keep him moving around a bit ^^.
But talking about cheap units:
Pitbull vs Raider Buggy vs Seeker
Imo i think it's strengh order would be Seeker(strongest), PB and then RB (weakest).
Were all fammiliar with the Seeker spam (steamroller), it's dealt with with a patch allready/soonish (?).
Well, not a raider buggy, it cannot detect stealth, as Ricko said recon and its not that fast anyways but if your enemy is not nod I guess it would be ok as it has more armor and is more likely to survive, you don't need the upgrade because zone troops detect stealth and kill any stealth unit to fast for it to be a problem (unless its stealth, can squish them, or is a flamer)

[Chev]

So I guess we all agree that the raider buggy is just a plain useless vehicle unless you'd like to use them for some mobile AA defense against firehawks and orca's or incoming airlifts.

talking about the faction's Commando's:
Nod Commando: Stealth when standing still, C4 explosives. Destroy Walker (with C4), fast firing
GDI Commando: C4 explosives. Destroy Walker (with C4), fast firing, (jump packs?)
SCRIN Mastermind: Can take direct control of human vehicles, buildings, and infantry. Teleporting scrin units.

I rarely train a commando, there more suicide units, take them behind enemy lines without being seen, then destroy as much as possible and die (usually).
But their's rarely enough time to really micro them well enough and there quite useless vs. infantry if there not ranked up yet (start status) unlike in the Single player. And there is no way to heal them.

[SgtRicko]

Dude, you REALLY gotta use spell check on that post man, I can't read it for squat!:freek:

[Chev]

Dude, you REALLY gotta use spell check on that post man, I can't read it for squat!:freek:

Done sorry mate :lol: it was worthless typing indeed (was doing something for work while typing, wasn't on it with my mind)