turtling again...

[trained_assassin_14]

Hey guys, I was wondering if you have a really good stat against turtling. I just played a game (bitter winter was the map) where I was Tox (started at the bottom of the map) and he was SWG. He just massed up on defense and money pads. He eventually got about 6 airports full of aurora alpha's and bombed a lot of my buildings. Once he destroyed my CC, I rebuilt it in the bottom right corner hoping he wouldn't find it for a while. I should have saved the replay, but I wasn't really thinking about that. I had the whole entire map, and a good economy , but his defense was almost impossible to break through. It took me about two hours just to break through his massive defense, and then another 25-30 min. to defeat this guy.

What would you have done it this situation???

[yurihomer]

hahaha, don't go tank general on this big map and vs superweapon general then.

[Daishi]

You were at a severe, severe disadvantage. Only thing you could have done as tank is make a base in mid-field, mass troop crawlers with vet-red guard early on, with a little gatt support perhaps if you go dual WF, and deny him his forward supplies. Then see if you can't sneak a dragon tank down his flank. If you can't keep him off all the field supplies early on, you might as well forfeit.

[trained_assassin_14]

Sorry guys, I meant ToxG. :D I'm still getting use the the abbreviations....

[Zancloufer27]

Tech RPG/Terror is supplies early on, and continue to harass him with techs.

[trained_assassin_14]

I did that. He just built his defense so fast. I tried flanking him, but it about the same for defense. I stopped him from getting his second supply source, but it didn't seem to bother him much.

[Derek]

Hmm, did you try terrorist spamming his defenses? If he got them up fast he couldn't have had much in the way of vees or even rangers, so you might could get some of those through. The other thing you can try to do is just mass a huge army of Techs and run through the EMPs, they won't be able to disable them all, but once inside the techs will take quite some time to kill structures. (Vees or infantry however, will be easily destroyed)

[Me Myself & Pi]

It may be better to just stick to 4-2 player maps so it doesn't take so long to get to his base. I usually just stick to most of the 2 player maps in quick matches.

My suggestion is this situation though (not that I've even played at toxin general) is to fill up technicals with terrorists & move them one at a time to the EMP turrets. I'm not sure if a technical can evacuate once disabled but since those terrorists can't really be hit by the missiles it might be very affective.
If you were going to rush in technicals, be sure to keep them lined up so that if the first one gets disabled he won't stop the others. You can use ctrl+F to keep you technicals in formation.

The best thing to do against SW General is to rush them. I once was SW General & was good at it, but then I switched over to laser. So what I had to do was use humvees with missile defenders to hold off any rushing attacks. By the time I'd get a good defence, I'd start building those auroras!

[trained_assassin_14]

In this game he had about 10-15 comanche's in his base, so once I got the techs past his main defensive line, he would wipe out the rest of my guys with the comanche's. Plus, he had so many units backing up his defense (avengers and tomahawks), it was pretty hard to get anything through without having to go around them all.

[Zancloufer27]

Was this a 10K game?

[trained_assassin_14]

Yeh it was a 10k game.

I don't know how he got so much money within the first ten minutes. He had a ring of defense within 15 min.

[Zancloufer27]

You could get a Tech RPG/Terror within 5 minutes.

[trained_assassin_14]

Thats true. But you can't tell if their turtling till it's too late....

[Daishi]

Know where all the extra cash is on Bitter Winter and make it a primary objective to hit them, tunnel them, and take them as soon as permissible if you're GLA fighting SWG. Off of one supply, it would be hard for him to turtle and tech up to alphas before you have all the quads, techterrors, and RPGs you need to steamroll his defense. Especially considering you'll probably have all the supplies.

If he manages to get that many $1800 comanches that fast in 10k, you're not hitting him at all during those 15 minutes. If he usually goes airfield first, he won't be able to stop you from TTing his supplies anyway.

[yurihomer]

or. start building like 20 or so scud storms. (should be easy since u are using gla). hope he won't have enough aurora alpha to be wasted on those. and then scud his front door defence.

[selly jr]

try using rocket buggys, theyre long range and the missiles can only be blocked by point defence lazers, if you see an aurora, move the buggy's, because the aurora payload doesnt home in.

you could also use infantry because they are immune to emp.


the best general to deal with a superweapon general, is general granger, because his planes can block the emp missiles, and (unlike auroras) they can hit other planes. But my fave for killing sw general is nuke general, because his artillery can stay well out of range of defences and deal lethal damage.or. start building like 20 or so scud storms. (should be easy since u are using gla). hope he won't have enough aurora alpha to be wasted on those. and then scud his front door defence.

good idea, at least you dont have to worry about power.

or instead of destroying his defences, you could just cut their power with the scud storms or use saboteurs (if you can get them as gla, i cant remember)

sw general is a complete and total n00b that n00bs use because they are too...(how can i put this nicely)**** to win without a proper fight (you know, like a tank scrap etc) they resort to cheating more or less all the time because more or less everything sw general has is against the rules of most games i play. Suffice to say, if you use auroras (and nothing but), you suck!XD

[Derek]

sw general is a complete and total n00b that n00bs use because they are too...(how can i put this nicely)**** to win without a proper fight (you know, like a tank scrap etc) they resort to cheating more or less all the time because more or less everything sw general has is against the rules of most games i play. Suffice to say, if you use auroras (and nothing but), you suck!XD
Your post was surprisingly intelligent up until this point. I thought you might actually be decent, clearly I was mistaken.

[Daishi]

try using rocket buggys, theyre long range and the missiles can only be blocked by point defence lazers, if you see an aurora, move the buggy's, because the aurora payload doesnt home in.
you could also use infantry because they are immune to emp.
the best general to deal with a superweapon general, is general granger, because his planes can block the emp missiles, and (unlike auroras) they can hit other planes. But my fave for killing sw general is nuke general, because his artillery can stay well out of range of defences and deal lethal damage.
Rocket buggies are a good idea, but you generally want to sack terrorists into their defenses as tox and follow up with busses or quad + RPG, because buggies are expensive and would fall in a flash to those alphas + comanches he's apparently got.
USAF is the best general to deal with ANY general. The exceptions are Stealth and Infantry, then it's better to go toxin. Nuke is probably the worst choice out of all the Chinas in this case, go Infantry instead and AO rush him. SWG has no way of stopping it if done right.
good idea, at least you dont have to worry about power.
or instead of destroying his defences, you could just cut their power with the scud storms or use saboteurs (if you can get them as gla, i cant remember)
You're not going to out-SW SWG unless you flex that early advantage and deny him a good economy. And tox doesn't get sabs.

sw general is a complete and total n00b that n00bs use because they are too...(how can i put this nicely)**** to win without a proper fight (you know, like a tank scrap etc) they resort to cheating more or less all the time because more or less everything sw general has is against the rules of most games i play. Suffice to say, if you use auroras (and nothing but), you suck!XD Way to completely invalidate your opinion mate... play without rules and maybe you'll have a more sympathetic opinion of SWG.
By the way, I'm almost afraid to ask... ta14, you're not fighting a no-rush game against SWG, are you?

[Zancloufer27]

Thats true. But you can't tell if their turtling till it's too late....

Rush them ASAP. Ifyou go Fast WF, you can get out a Tech before they get out more than 2-3 defenses.

[trained_assassin_14]

By the way, I'm almost afraid to ask... ta14, you're not fighting a no-rush game against SWG, are you?

Heck no! I never play with any rules (don't quote me on that).

thanks for the suggestions, I'll definetly try them out....

[yurihomer]

or instead of destroying his defences, you could just cut their power with the scud storms
i say just scud the front door defence, because he prob have more than enough power plants.

[trained_assassin_14]

Now this wasn't the situation of the game, but what happens if he's turtling and builds SWs? How would you handle this situation then.

[drgNz~]

When you see SW bunker up, you always try to take the map and tech before they do.

Buggies spread out, with quads nearby to shoot down the Aurora's. You can spit out Buggies and Quads quicker than he can spit out Aurora's, especially if you have the map.
Rebel ambush near his airfields, and if he has any Aurora's on guard, watch him blow half of his base up :D
Always back your tunnels up, and keep expanding. Eventually it'll become a matter of time before you win.

And if, somehow, he manages to get a couple of SWs up, you should have twice as many, seeing as you have map control, and you should have teched before him.

[selly jr]

Gla are quick to establish a base, because they don't need power. Use this to your advantage and go nuts with superweapons, as well as spam your base with tons of quads.

you could send a worker into their base-to-be by a combat cycle, so u can put defences there so he cant build there.

try attacking from more then one direction. because the liklihood is, that your opponent will be too busy working on the first attack, so use another attack while the first one is at work at a different place.

[trained_assassin_14]

Rebel ambush near his airfields, and if he has any Aurora's on guard, watch him blow half of his base up :D


Yeh, I always like watching the opponents kill themselves with auroras :lol:

I know what you mean by expanding your base with GLA. They definitely have the advantage on building faster then USA or CHINA....

[Daishi]

you could send a worker into their base-to-be by a combat cycle, so u can put defences there so he cant build there.
Worker + Technical is a hell of a lot more economical and versatile, and less likely to be a complete failure.

Gla are quick to establish a base, because they don't need power. Use this to your advantage and go nuts with superweapons, as well as spam your base with tons of quads.

I know what you mean by expanding your base with GLA. They definitely have the advantage on building faster then USA or CHINA....

This is a lie. GLA sans power builds structures a lot slower than USA or China, and they have the slowest-moving builder unit.

[trained_assassin_14]

That came out wrong. GLA (IMO) can spread their base a lot faster then USA or CHINA, because GLA has the ability to make more workers then other fractions; and therefore, they can in a way spread out faster....

[Zardac the Great]

I find this to be humorous.

Usually, General Alexander is blasted for trying to set up an impenatrable defense, and them spamming superweapons, and Superweapon Auroras.

Now, we're being told that the best thing to do is to put defenses everywhere and spam superweapons.

[Daishi]

Zardac, bunker/raid/SW is invariably how you play as GLA late game. If you can't stop SWG from setting up that little fortress of hers, you have the rest of the map to wage war on, and she's forced to stop you on all fronts or risk getting overpowered. You can take advantage of this chaos and strike down a few auroras when she's unprepared.

And of course, raid the defenses and airfield/strat center with TTs.

[Derek]

Worker + Technical is a hell of a lot more economical and versatile, and less likely to be a complete failure.
Actually, seeing as in order to secure their base as fast as possible turtlers usually focus all their defenses, at least early, on the entrances to their base, a worker bike has a chance of slipping in by going over cliffs that a technical does not have. Still, unless you're stealth gen its probably not going to work.

[Zardac the Great]

Zardac, bunker/raid/SW is invariably how you play as GLA late game. If you can't stop SWG from setting up that little fortress of hers, you have the rest of the map to wage war on, and she's forced to stop you on all fronts or risk getting overpowered. You can take advantage of this chaos and strike down a few auroras when she's unprepared.

And of course, raid the defenses and airfield/strat center with TTs.


I didn't say there was anything wrong with it...I just found it funny.

[Daishi]

K then.

Actually, seeing as in order to secure their base as fast as possible turtlers usually focus all their defenses, at least early, on the entrances to their base, a worker bike has a chance of slipping in by going over cliffs that a technical does not have. Still, unless you're stealth gen its probably not going to work.
We're talking early on, before the enemy base is secured, right? Worker bike is unarmed and unstealthed so far, and $600 (550 [Cycle cost] + 200 [worker cost] - 150 [free rebel] is wasted if the worker falls during the attempt. Technical with 3-4 extra toxin infantry in it can have a field day while the toxin tunnel is getting built, and the enemy will have a hard time pacifying both threats at once. The best part is that the technical could potentially skimp on offense and instead bring extra workers downtown to string tunnels all over the map (on TD, they'd go for the flanks and the back of the base. Then they could head back and grab some terrorists to go dozer hunting with.

Or better yet, sac your first TT into the enemy defenses. Then start with the tunnel smothering.

[Derek]

Its entirely possible for a SW gen to get an EMP pat up at each defense before you can get a technical there. It means he has no money and nothing inside his base, but he can do it. What I'm pointing out is that when people rush to defend the entrances, they ignore the cliffs that bikes can exploit. Its not something you would usually do, but its a viable option that is sometimes better than a worker.

Also, bike sabeteur (for vGLA and Stealth) is great against Laser and SW turtlers.

[Zancloufer27]

Why would you need a bike? You could just send the Sabatour over the gap by it's self. Would make less noise . . .

[Derek]

Why would you need a bike? You could just send the Sabatour over the gap by it's self. Would make less noise . . .
I don't think Sabatour's can climb cliffs, can they?

[Daishi]

They can.

[yurihomer]

yep, one of the only 2 units that can climb. another one is burton.

[Daishi]

Obviously he means one of the only two infantry units. :p

[trained_assassin_14]

I never knew saboteurs could climb cliffs. That gives me some good strategies for 2v2 maps :devil:

[selly jr]

Worker + Technical is a hell of a lot more economical and versatile, and less likely to be a complete failure.

where that may be true, they cant climb cliffs, can they. bikes do.

I understand where you're coming from, but bikes can take shortcuts, and can allow workers to build on high things that cannot be reached by non flying/climbing units.

[yurihomer]

Obviously he means one of the only two infantry units. :p
i don't know how bike can actually climb the cliff. like 80 degree cliff they just run up there... :eek:

[selly jr]

i don't know how bike can actually climb the cliff. like 80 degree cliff they just run up there... :eek:

nor do I, but take advantage of this anyway:evil: