Please read... (couldn't think of a better title)

[sterio]

I hadn't seen anything about this in English, but I ran across this by accident just now, so I decided to show it to you. I'm not going to post anything else in this thread, because quite simply it makes me so angry and so sad. I heard her describe this ordeal on TV and I almost cried.

Please read this: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/12/14/europe/EU-GEN-Iceland-US.php

[NuclearDreams]

I'm not questioning the woman's integrity or her story, but I would need more infromation before I could form any opinion as to what happened and why. That story in the Tribune was just to one sided and incomplete.

[YuriRuler90]

It was rather one-sided.

1. She overstayed a Visa: nice large fine and is a jailable offense.
2. She left without prosecution.
3. Overstaying a Visa results in a 10 year bar from the United States.
4. If you have overstayed a Visa, you have to reapply for one before reentering, even if you're here for recreation. Period.

So, where's the question?

[Doh004]

I don't know enough about the story / procedure of deporting "illegal aliens?" to really know what to think about this.

Sounds like a little bit of malarky, but you never know these days.

[NuclearDreams]

My wife is German, my children have dual citizenships. In 1997 we moved back to the States so that I could finish up a degree I began some years before. My wife aquired a one year visa, at the end of the visa the INS would not extend her stay under any circumstances. I appealed several times to no avail. I had one year left to finish my degree, which subsequently had to be completed in Germany through the internet. Our children are Americans, I am an American but yet they still denied her an extension that would have helped me finish school at a Tech College of my choosing. Was it fair? No. Nor was it legal, which I found out after we had already returned to Germany.

The system does have serious flaws...but then again what system doesn't.

[YuriRuler90]

My wife is German

Is she rather feisty? :p

[NuclearDreams]

Is she rather feisty?

Believe it.

[Thumper]

are there non-feisty german women?

[nilloC]

Welcome to the United States, where freedom is just a hook word to get votes and rally for wars.

[Nilsog]

While I don't necessarily agree with the way things went down, she was at fault. It was her responsibility to check and follow state and federal regulations, and she obviously didn't do that.

Welcome to the United States, where freedom is just a hook word to get votes and rally for wars.

Don't get me wrong, but are you suggesting we just let everyone in, no visa or citizenship required, no matter where they are from?

[sterio]

Ok, I didn't intend to post here again, but I have to, as all of you (except Collin) have missed the point. The point is not that she should have been allowed into the country. The point is the process. You don't take a person for a small hardly-a-crime (but still a crime, definately), interrogate them for hours, make them wait and wait, not allow them to even so much as contact their consul or embassy (which is one of those basic rights when in another country), chain them up, put them in a cell with another person, where she can be seen all the time, with a toilet in the middle of the room (that part wasn't actually in the article) etc. etc. She should have been deported, yes, but not in chains, not after having been broken down completely, and so on. Where I come from, that treatment is what's called a violation of human rights, and of basic human dignity.

BTW, the US homeland security department has apologised formally to the Icelandic government, but I don't think that's enough. I think the person in charge of a treatment such as the one she had should be put on trial. But obviously I also know that's not going to happen. But I can tell you that I cannot think of going to the US any time in the close future, if that's the way I can expect to be treated for any smallest crime. I mean, overstaying a visa ten years ago?!

[SirSnake]

the solution to me is an obvious one:

dont visit america!


I could live my whole life quite happily with never even seeing the place from afar.

but as for the woman the entire treatment of her is ridicolous and unfounded. Maybe the US can justify such treatment of possible terrorists, but this 33 year old icelandic woman, who could easily have been detained in a humane fashion.
Shes hardly going to "up at at them".

A case of paranoia perhaps?

[Doh004]

the solution to me is an obvious one:
dont visit america!
I could live my whole life quite happily with never even seeing the place from afar.
*edit* I'm an idiot. Hurrrr :(

[SirSnake]

perhaps I should have put a smilie in to emphasise it was a joke. :color2:


Personally ive always quite fancied seeing the grand canyon!

[Doh004]

perhaps I should have put a smilie in to emphasise it was a joke. :color2:
Personally ive always quite fancied seeing the grand canyon!
Maybe I should just shutup... My apologies ;)

[Alpha and Omega]

Don't get me wrong, but are you suggesting we just let everyone in, no visa or citizenship required, no matter where they are from?

No, he just saw an opportunity for a jab.

Let me make sure I understand sterio's question.
I don't think anyone here has any trouble agreeing that she broke a law, and therefore should have been sent home. Yes?...Yes.

But it's a problem that they made her wear shackles?

How is it a violation of someone's human rights to put anklecuffs on them? If handcuffs aren't a violations of human rights, neither are shackles. They're used regularly on almost all people in police custody when they're being transported. Go to any courthouse in the US, anytime there is worry that someone may try to escape, as in most cases of immigration law violation, shackles are applied.

We should give her an exception because she's Icelandic? And not, say, Jordanian? I have no problem with a little bit of profiling in some cases, but we're all equal under the law. I'd be put in shackles and thrown in a cell temporarily just as soon as my friend Bilal would be.

Now, putting her in a cell with other people...out of the control of the INS or Homeland Security, is indeed wrong, I agree with you there.

Sorry, been gone a while, had to let out some steam.

[Camel]

:rolleyes:America, Land of the Free (but if you overstay a visit, and come back again, you must be an illegal immigrant, you must be treated like muck, denied some rights......talk about some paranoid laws):nuts:















:wave:To those who don`t know what this Smiley -->:rolleyes: means, get a Life..:evil:

[Doh004]

(but if you overstay a visit, and come back again, you must be an illegal immigrant...)
Yes that does constitute being here illegally... Not agreeing with which the manner was conducted, but it's not like she was completely innocent.:hmm:

[pipinowns]

I can't wait to leave this country.

[nilloC]

No, he just saw an opportunity for a jab.


You're damn right I saw an opportunity for a jab. A rightfully placed jab, at that. Do you really believe America is "Land of the Free"? If so, I feel really that its tragic you'd conform to such a propaganda-induced idea.

Was overstaying a Visa 10 years prior a crime? Sure it was. But A&O, ask yourself if that is a conceived threat to the freedom of American citizens. If your answer is "Well the 9/11 hijackers weren't a conceived threat either!" go back and do some more research, because you're straight up incorrect. Overstaying a Visa is illegal, sure. But can you really justify witholding rights given to other criminals that have murdered (One phone call) and at times denying her food? Granted its possible she fabricated parts of the story, however I'm going to allow myself to be naive and believe Lillendahl's story. Its not that they handcuffed her or "shackled" her. Its that the authorities deprived her of the most basic of rights that are given to other criminals, and for what? Because she "might be a terrorist"? That's ridiculous.

Nilsog: I'm not saying we should let everyone in sans Visas and Passports. But I think the system we have now is flawed. What should we have instead? Don't ask me, its not my job to try to figure out a better system. However I feel this instance is a prime example of the government sacrificing others' freedom for the idea of "freedom", something that is completely ironic yet most Americans are so blind that we don't make a fuss about it (See: Patriot Act).

[Alpha and Omega]

Do you really believe America is "Land of the Free"? If so, I feel really that its tragic you'd conform to such a propaganda-induced idea.

I'm pretty sure we've all heard the quote by Tacitus, "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous it's laws."
I am not argueing that America is all that great. But don't try to pretend that your ideas are any less "propaganda-induced" than the ones you detest.

Depriving someone of food is, of course, wrong. But did they really deprive her of food, or did they just not give her whatever she wanted right away? She obviously was fed at some point, and given water. In all likelyhood she asked for something, and was denied, so she made a fuss. There's a difference between saying "no, I won't buy you a Snickers bar" and "no, you don't get to eat, ever".

Does it constitute a threat? Of course not. Then again, driving too fast in my car, drinking too much, or carrying a concealed weapon without a permit really aren't that dangerous to the public either, but I can still be arrested, put in shackles, and interrogated for all three.

The sad fact is, criminals are defined intentions, not actions. You can kill a man to protect you family, and it's not neccessarily a crime. You can come to the US after violating a visa years before, and it really shouldn't be a crime, it's an honest mistake, I'm sure she'd fix it if she could.
But the law doesn't differentiate. It judges based on actions first, not intentions. Maybe it's built that way to be fair or something, I don't know, but there's not much we can do about it.