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View Full Version : Moral Ambiguity and Absolutism in Command&Conquer


Quadhelix
01-20-2008, 09:55 PM
Awhile ago, I found an intriguing article at CnCWorld, written in 2000 by someone with the screen-name of "Cabal," that posed the question: "Are GDI and the Allies Really the Good Guys? (http://cncworld.org/index.php?page=features/articles/goodguys)" The basic premise of the article is that Tiberian Dawn, Red Alert, and Tiberian Sun show signs that the sides that are portrayed as the "good guys" might have a bit of rust on their shiny Ranger stars. He-or she-does take the evidence a bit too far by claiming proof that GDI and the Allies are "evil" from a few examples that they aren't children's cartoon G.I. Joe-level good guys, but nevertheless the article is only about three paragraphs long and is worth reading.

Either way, this article got me thinking, and I began to consider the possibility that C&C is a little too absolute with its morality: GDI is clearly the "good guy" in spite of the two or three lines of dialog cited to prove its "evilness," while Nod is clearly the "bad guy" (although Nod's "evilness" is not as self-evident as GDI's "goodness"). This is not necessarily a good thing.


Flaws in Cabal's Arguments

In Tiberian Dawn, the only "evil" thing that GDI does (kill Kane as opposed to capture him) is not evil. Whether or not GDI's mandate required it to capture war criminals as opposed to assassinate them, Kane was too big a threat to let get away: he was a nuclear-capable rogue agent and letting him live may well have been the greater evil. Backed against the wall as Kane was, GDI had no way of knowing whether he would launch a nuclear attack against civilian targets if he were not neutralized quickly. Also, given the fact that many within the Brotherhood literally worshiped Kane, it is doubtful that any prison could be built to hold him long enough for him to be brought to trial. Given the threat he posed, it was too great a risk to allow him to escape and rebuild his network.

In Tiberian Sun, General Solomon had arranged to have Slavik framed to be a traitor. While "Cabal" argues that this was part of a GDI plot either to kill off people in Nod without a trial or to cause Slavik to seek revenge and thus give GDI an excuse to crush Nod, such an assertion is rather extreme for the evidence provided. While Solomon's deal with Hassan and framing of Slavik do show a shadier side of GDI, Nod did something similar in both the First and the Second Tiberium Wars: frame GDI for a massacre that either never occurred (TW1) or was perpetrated by Nod itself (TW2) in order to promote its own agenda. Furthermore, killing Slavik was not a random act by GDI, but rather part of a plan to keep Nod peaceful and under GDI control: Hassan was content with peace with GDI, as long as he was in control of Nod; Slavik, on the other hand, was more than eager to destroy GDI and his power and popularity were growing. In short, GDI was most likely trying to kill Slavik in order to prevent the vary war the "Cabal" claims GDI was trying to incite.

What is best taken from Cabal's article is that the moral positions of the "good guys" in C&C are not completely unassailable. He is wrong, on the other hand, of claiming that their moral ambiguity makes them evil; after all, their enemies were guilty of far worse.


GDI's Moral Failures in Command&Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars

In previous games, GDI has always been portrayed as a global protector that, despite some underhandedness and occasional "ends justify the means" thinking, at the very least tries to promote peace and prevent excessive civilian casualties-note that GDI got most of the "evacuate civilians" missions while most (all?) of the "slaughter civilians" missions went to Nod. As of Tiberium Wars, however, GDI's "moral armor" takes a hit the size of Battleship cannon.

A central part of Tiberium War's backstory and plot is GDI's abandonment of the Yellow Zones, which left huge tracks of land and large populations of people ripe for Nod to acquire. Although GDI probably lacked the resources to maintain a significant presence in the Yellows Zones, the evidence points toward total GDI abandonment of the people trapped in the Yellow Zones. Had GDI made any ventures into the Yellow Zones, they would have encountered a significant and hostile Nod presence; still, at the beginning of Tiberium Wars, there are those among GDI who feel that Nod is no longer a significant concern. There is no evidence that GDI made any attempt to provide humanitarian aid to the people stranded in Yellow Zones, despite the fact that in the real world, the United Nations' primary method of responding to crises is humanitarian aid.

Another issue of GDI's moral decay is Director Boyle's willingness to sacrifice millions of lives in order to kill Kane. Although General Shepherd's desire to kill Kane was at least partially justified by the threat of nuclear retaliation should Kane not be eliminated quickly, the Director Boyle's actions show the exact opposite attitude toward the loss of innocent life: General Shepherd reasoned, "It's necessary to kill Kane in order to prevent massive civilian," whereas director Boyle obviously felt, "It's necessary to kill Kane in spite of massive civilian casualties."

The true crowning moment of the game, in my humble opinion, is when Boyle orders the Player to use the Liquid Tiberium Bomb on the Scrin Relay Node. The only flaw with that part of the game is that it is possible to destroy the Relay Node without using the Tib-lq Bomb; the ending would carry far more emotional impact for the Player if, despite hours of pounding away at the Relay Node with Avatars, railgun Mammoths, the Ion Cannon, Nukes, the Rift Generator, etc., he or she finally comes to the realization that the only way to save mankind is to sacrifice thousands of innocent people by using the Tib-lq Bomb.


What Could Be Done Differently?

On of the things that inspired me to start this thread was the game Fallout and, to an extent, its sequel Fallout 2. Both games have many possible endings depending on the Player's choices. Also, the "moral" thing to do is not always easily apparent; as an example, you have the opportunity to repair a leaky nuclear reactor in one area, preventing radiation from leaking into the groundwater, and thus preventing a neighboring city from invading to shut down the reactor. On the other hand, if you optimize the reactor, supposedly to promote a peace treaty between the two cities where the city with the reactor provides power while the other city provides medical supplies, the other city invades the city with the reactor in order to gain unrestricted access to the power. Also, the Fallout world is filled with groups that, while not evil, are not shining paragons of virtue either: even the "villain" of the first game was not evil, but rather had a vision of the future with which not everyone agreed. His vision was actually quite noble: the enhancement of humanity to strong, intelligent supermen; what he failed to realize was that the supermen were also sterile, and he actually killed himself when he learned the truth.

Players should have to make tough moral decisions during the game: there are ten houses in a village, and three (randomly selected) of them are going to spawn several suicide bombers that are going to attack your base. Do you level the village? Do you accept the damage to your own forces? Does your decision depend on whether the village as a whole is loyal to the other side, or does the preservation of your military force justify the loss of your own civilians?

Another thing that I want to see-although probably never will-is a game were none of the sides have the moral high ground. The Starcraft manual, for the Terran backstory, mentions rampant mutation and unrest on Earth, and a "United Powers League" that formed to quell the unrest and eliminate the mutants, cyborgs, etc. In Fallout 2, Vault City is incredibly xenophobic, conferring Citizenship on only a small handful of outsiders-none of whom are mutants-and practically enslaving the rest; the so-called "Enclave" plans to purify the human genome by releasing a virus to wipe all other human beings on Earth, leaving only their mutation-free DNA. These are excellent models for the GDI of C&C4, no longer a caricature of "the good guys," but instead is a civilization-and to an extent, a species-trying to survive in the face an unprecedented, dynamic, and viscous alien threat.

In short, for C&C4's plot, I want a GDI that is in a state of permanent martial law, its forces arresting or killing any mutants that they encounter, and not afraid to exterminate Yellow Zone towns to weaken Nod forces. In response, I want to see a new, more viscous Brotherhood of Nod, using nanite plagues, nuclear and Tiberium missile attacks on major GDI population centers, and perhaps even rudimentary mind control techniques to retaliate. I want to see the GDI internment camps for mutants and the Nod mass graves of heretics. I want two sides that are noble, honorable, and virtuous in their own minds only, and nowhere else.

Of course, the odds of GDI being portrayed in such a manner is rather slim, and it might not even be the best portrayal of GDI. It would be, however, the Realistic portrayal of the remnants of Western civilization, trying to find security in a world rapidly coming apart at the seems.

Avapodnaught
01-20-2008, 11:38 PM
He-or she-does take the evidence a bit too far by claiming proof that GDI and the Allies are "evil" from a few examples that they aren't children's cartoon G.I. Joe-level good guys, but nevertheless the article is only about three paragraphs long and is worth reading.

This will be a good arguement and after reading his statement I do agree with him (too bad he didn't put anything on Ra II or Renegade, but I think I can scrounge something up)

Either way, this article got me thinking, and I began to consider the possibility that C&C is a little too absolute with its morality: GDI is clearly the "good guy" in spite of the two or three lines of dialog cited to prove its "evilness," while Nod is clearly the "bad guy" (although Nod's "evilness" is not as self-evident as GDI's "goodness"). This is not necessarily a good thing.

In the end you will understand my resolution that neither side is good and they are only worse in their efforts to sustain their own order

In Tiberian Dawn, the only "evil" thing that GDI does (kill Kane as opposed to capture him) is not evil. Whether or not GDI's mandate required it to capture war criminals as opposed to assassinate them, Kane was too big a threat to let get away: he was a nuclear-capable rogue agent and letting him live may well have been the greater evil. Backed against the wall as Kane was, GDI had no way of knowing whether he would launch a nuclear attack against civilian targets if he were not neutralized quickly. Also, given the fact that many within the Brotherhood literally worshiped Kane, it is doubtful that any prison could be built to hold him long enough for him to be brought to trial. Given the threat he posed, it was too great a risk to allow him to escape and rebuild his network.

I on the other hand agree with the man, that Gdi would have sacrificed nearly anything to see Kane dead in their grasp, they would use all they had left to try and take on Kane if they had failed
But you do bring up a good point so my opinion is not strong, because I believe this is where if you lost they would start throwing nukes around

In Tiberian Sun, General Solomon had arranged to have Slavik framed to be a traitor. While "Cabal" argues that this was part of a GDI plot either to kill off people in Nod without a trial or to cause Slavik to seek revenge and thus give GDI an excuse to crush Nod, such an assertion is rather extreme for the evidence provided. While Solomon's deal with Hassan and framing of Slavik do show a shadier side of GDI, Nod did something similar in both the First and the Second Tiberium Wars: frame GDI for a massacre that either never occurred (TW1) or was perpetrated by Nod itself (TW2) in order to promote its own agenda. Furthermore, killing Slavik was not a random act by GDI, but rather part of a plan to keep Nod peaceful and under GDI control: Hassan was content with peace with GDI, as long as he was in control of Nod; Slavik, on the other hand, was more than eager to destroy GDI and his power and popularity were growing. In short, GDI was most likely trying to kill Slavik in order to prevent the vary war the "Cabal" claims GDI was trying to incite.

Do you really think that Gdi should be above the laws that have been provided Quad?
Should Gdi do whatever they can to destroy Nod like create another Cabal under as much control as they want and then nuke it and afterwards be seen as the Protectors of the world -its like a Boyle approach-

What is best taken from Cabal's article is that the moral positions of the "good guys" in C&C are not completely unassailable. He is wrong, on the other hand, of claiming that their moral ambiguity makes them evil; after all, their enemies were guilty of far worse.

Ah, but if they let people who used moral for their own power (Ever seen the ending with Redmond Boyle? that was pure Evil on his part, causing the one who was more concerned about the people which Boyle had used)

A central part of Tiberium War's backstory and plot is GDI's abandonment of the Yellow Zones, which left huge tracks of land and large populations of people ripe for Nod to acquire. Although GDI probably lacked the resources to maintain a significant presence in the Yellows Zones, the evidence points toward total GDI abandonment of the people trapped in the Yellow Zones. Had GDI made any ventures into the Yellow Zones, they would have encountered a significant and hostile Nod presence; still, at the beginning of Tiberium Wars, there are those among GDI who feel that Nod is no longer a significant concern. There is no evidence that GDI made any attempt to provide humanitarian aid to the people stranded in Yellow Zones, despite the fact that in the real world, the United Nations' primary method of responding to crises is humanitarian aid.

Perhaps Gdi was wanting to kill anyone who might have been with Nod in the Yellow Zones, and they were more sure of themselves in the Blue Zones, they certainly thought that there would be safety in Philidelphia, maybe they made it so easy to destroy for another war
They also didn't like to go in Redzones until the Alien's arrived which kind of gives you a picture for Gdi in particular as they really didn't want to get involved where nothing seemed to be an issue but... the planet?
Their soldiers were fighting for freedom under a government that sought to destroy Nod who not only seemed to be undying but the ones with more Tiberium knowledge, which was a main concern then, but I also bet that they had some plans so they wouldn't die because of Tiberium, it wasn't like all of Nod was completely under Kane at every step

Another issue of GDI's moral decay is Director Boyle's willingness to sacrifice millions of lives in order to kill Kane. Although General Shepherd's desire to kill Kane was at least partially justified by the threat of nuclear retaliation should Kane not be eliminated quickly, the Director Boyle's actions show the exact opposite attitude toward the loss of innocent life: General Shepherd reasoned, "It's necessary to kill Kane in order to prevent massive civilian," whereas director Boyle obviously felt, "It's necessary to kill Kane in spite of massive civilian casualties."

Boyle was an evil character who wasn't one to have power, and had to snake his way through the media and maybe even Kane himself to provide, alas, a Liquid Tiberium Bomb
He didn't care about the public as much as he wanted you to think he just wanted his power, his glory, the eradication of the aliens and maybe slight attacks on Nod every now and then for his public opinion to soar

The true crowning moment of the game, in my humble opinion, is when Boyle orders the Player to use the Liquid Tiberium Bomb on the Scrin Relay Node. The only flaw with that part of the game is that it is possible to destroy the Relay Node without using the Tib-lq Bomb; the ending would carry far more emotional impact for the Player if, despite hours of pounding away at the Relay Node with Avatars, railgun Mammoths, the Ion Cannon, Nukes, the Rift Generator, etc., he or she finally comes to the realization that the only way to save mankind is to sacrifice thousands of innocent people by using the Tib-lq Bomb.

Especially with the Avatars now it would probably be horrors to fight such an onslaught, why not take the easy way Boyle says, so I can be above all, do it commander, for the sake of the people, for victory
It would be sick imho if you actually saw Gdi using the Liquid Tiberium Bomb in Kane's Wrath or Nod using the bomb where it would do the most Gdi Harrassment
Because there would be a massed Tiberium flow everywhere if either of those did happen, but I guess they won't so I'm just messing with myself there...


In short, for C&C4's plot, I want a GDI that is in a state of permanent martial law, its forces arresting or killing any mutants that they encounter, and not afraid to exterminate Yellow Zone towns to weaken Nod forces. In response, I want to see a new, more viscous Brotherhood of Nod, using nanite plagues, nuclear and Tiberium missile attacks on major GDI population centers, and perhaps even rudimentary mind control techniques to retaliate. I want to see the GDI internment camps for mutants and the Nod mass graves of heretics. I want two sides that are noble, honorable, and virtuous in their own minds only, and nowhere else.

Of course, the odds of GDI being portrayed in such a manner is rather slim, and it might not even be the best portrayal of GDI. It would be, however, the Realistic portrayal of the remnants of Western civilization, trying to find security in a world rapidly coming apart at the seems.
Gdi could become that what it is fighting, Gdi seems to set itself as the World's last comfort, making sure all are trying to help it to help others, eliminating Nod most likely is their number one priority on their agenda so Tiberium can be 'contained' to the public's discression, they would move in and clear out towns accusing them to be Nod hideouts eliminating civilians all over
They could put all those who appose their goals as terrorists to put people in fear, they would fight harder and force Nod back into hiding (going along with a theory for Nod's disappearance in Tiberium, either that or they all went through the portal)

Nod may seem to be pretty evil on the outside but it stood up to ally with Gdi when they had their mistake of Cabal released (though they didn't like it much, and they had Kane point them to true believing armies in Tiberium Wars {I remember the mission where you had started with an avatar, commando, crane, sabateur and a Tiberium spike to capture and the commando shot the questioning engineer, I tried to seperate them...})

They had put burial to the dead in Renegade, and they even have a leader more concerned about the people than Gdi when he puts it all into a global perspective (although he does have some secrets on living so long)
I'll edit more on this later

SgtRicko
01-21-2008, 05:28 AM
In short, for C&C4's plot, I want a GDI that is in a state of permanent martial law, its forces arresting or killing any mutants that they encounter, and not afraid to exterminate Yellow Zone towns to weaken Nod forces.


I think GDI may have already gone that route, though not so heavy-handedly. I know that virtually all of the remaining world governments are pretty much nothing more than puppets of GDI by the time of C&C3, for one. This is due to the fact that the White House itself was considered to be nothing more than a mere target of "symbolic significance," whereas Rejavik, the Philadelphia and the Pentagon were actually far higher priority targets for Nod to strike at. (this may also indicate that GDI no longer has a democratic government anymore: they could very well be a junta of major world players and military commanders like Solomon and Boyle were).

As for the GDI giving up 100% on the yellow zones, I can say one of two things: that either GDI was still actually sending aid (albeit in much smaller amounts then they did before), or that it was just propaganda by GDI just to make their populace still feel morally good about themselves while also allowing GDI to conserve its increasingly more scarce supplies such as food, clean water, etc.

Nod may seem to be pretty evil on the outside but it stood up to ally with Gdi when they had their mistake of Cabal released (though they didn't like it much, and they had Kane point them to true believing armies in Tiberium Wars {I remember the mission where you had started with an avatar, commando, crane, sabateur and a Tiberium spike to capture and the commando shot the questioning engineer, I tried to seperate them...})

Nah, Nod's still pretty evil and demented, if you ask me. It's one thing to resort to harsh tactics such as terrorism, assassinations, and political manipulation to try to defend yourself against a powerful adversay, but it's a completey different matter entirely when you try to experiment on your own people, or convince them that tiberium is actually some sort of divine catalyst. And don't even get me started on the goddamn cyborgs; there is NO WAY IN HELL anyone can justify that sort of inhumanity.


EDIT: I don't think making the factions any more darker and greyed out in morality would help much, Quad. If you take it too far, you'll end up with up with some sort of weird version of WarHammer40k.

Quadhelix
01-21-2008, 07:43 AM
Do you really think that Gdi should be above the laws that have been provided Quad? No I do not.


Does it justify that they (in situations which they can) do not try and take the enemy in and not totally destroy them, Gdi is a faction that we don't understand completely, say what would happen on their conquest if they upgraded EVA so it would become another Computer Assisted Biologically Augmented Lifeform capable of destroying the planet unless they see it fit to wipe out Nod then destroy the system with a Nuclear warhead Could you rephrase that in a more readable manner?


Ah, but if they let people who used moral for their own power (Ever seen the ending with Redmond Boyle? that was pure Evil on his part, causing the one who was more concerned about the people which Boyle had used) I'm not sure what you are trying to say.


Perhaps Gdi was wanting to kill anyone who might have been with Nod in the Yellow Zones, and they were more sure of themselves in the Blue Zones, they certainly thought that there would be safety in Philidelphia, maybe they made it so easy to destroy for another war Far more likely, GDI probably just didn't to use the resources needed to help the post-Tiberium equivalent of the Third World.


They also didn't like to go in Redzones until the Alien's arrived which kind of gives you a picture for Gdi in particular Of course, nobody lives in Red Zones, so there was nobody there for GDI to help or fight.


Their soldiers were fighting for freedom under a government that sought to destroy Nod who not only seemed to be undying but the ones with more Tiberium knowledge, which was a main concern then Yes, but Nod was spreading Tiberium, a toxic substance that was completely devastating Earth's biosphere. Nod had more Tiberium knowledge, but they were using it to destroy mankind, so it is a little hard to blame GDI for trying to wipe out Nod.


Boyle was an evil character who wasn't one to have power, and had to snake his way through the media and maybe even Kane himself to provide, alas, a Tiberium Vapor Bomb
He didn't care about the public as much as he wanted you to think he just wanted his power, his glory, the eradication of the aliens and maybe slight attacks on Nod every now and then for his public opinion to soar It wasn't a Tiberium Vapor Bomb, it was a Liquid Tiberium Bomb. Other than that, I agree that Boyle was rather Machiavellian in his approach to the situation.


Especially with the Avatars now it would probably be horrors to fight such an onslaught, why not take the easy way Boyle says, so I can be above all, do it commander, for the sake of the people, for victory Said onslaught was to be the Player's. What I meant by that suggestion is that I wanted to force the Player to use the Liquid Tiberium Bomb on the Relay Node by making the Relay Node immune to all other damage types; the Player would attack the Relay Node with Avatars, Mammoths, the Ion Cannon, etc., only to find their attacks bounce harmlessly off the Relay Node's thick shell.

Thus, the Player, morally speaking, has no easy way out: he or she has to order the death of millions of innocent people in order to save humanity. There would have to be some gameplay alteration so that the mission is still a challenge, but I'm talking mostly about plot concerns.


It would be sick imho if you actually saw Gdi using the Vapor Bomb in Kane's Wrath or Nod using the bomb where it would do the most Gdi Harrassment Sick good or sick bad? And I believe that you mean Liquid Tiberium Bomb, because the Tiberium Vapor Bomb is already a general-use Nod power.


They could put all those who appose their goals as terrorists to put people in fear, they would fight harder and force Nod back into hiding (going along with a theory for Nod's disappearance in Tiberium, either that or they all went through the portal) We have seen, time and time again, that Nod only acts when it is in Nod's interest to act, so they may merely be waiting for a good time to strike.


Nod may seem to be pretty evil on the outside but it stood up to ally with Gdi when they had their mistake of Cabal released Allying with someone with whom you share a common enemy does not mean that you like them, or can even tolerate the thought of them living, it just means that you like that other enemy even less.


I think GDI may have already gone that route, though not so heavy-handedly. I know that virtually all of the remaining world governments are pretty much nothing more than puppets of GDI by the time of C&C3, for one. This is due to the fact that the White House itself was considered to be nothing more than a mere target of "symbolic significance," whereas Rejavik, the Philadelphia and the Pentagon were actually far higher priority targets for Nod to strike at. (this may also indicate that GDI no longer has a democratic government anymore: they could very well be a junta of major world players and military commanders like Solomon and Boyle were). True, but it would be kind of nice if the moral ambiguities weren't limited to subtext. Then again, given the number of people who claim that Nod is good while GDI is bad, in spite of the Nod mission in Tiberian Sun where Nod annihilates a mutant camp in order to frame GDI, perhaps anything stronger than subtext would be problematic.


As for the GDI giving up 100% on the yellow zones, I can say one of two things: that either GDI was still actually sending aid (albeit in much smaller amounts then they did before), or that it was just propaganda by GDI just to make their populace still feel morally good about themselves while also allowing GDI to conserve its increasingly more scarce supplies such as food, clean water, etc. What was propaganda? GDI's withdraw from the Yellow Zone's or Nod being all but gone?


Nah, Nod's still pretty evil and demented, if you ask me. It's one thing to resort to harsh tactics such as terrorism, assassinations, and political manipulation to try to defend yourself against a powerful adversay, but it's a completey different matter entirely when you try to experiment on your own people, or convince them that tiberium is actually some sort of divine catalyst. And don't even get me started on the goddamn cyborgs; there is NO WAY IN HELL anyone can justify that sort of inhumanity. Actually, I got the impression that most of the Cyborgs were created voluntarily, and that it was only CABAL who was making Hybrots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrot). Of course, I could be wrong.


EDIT: I don't think making the factions any more darker and greyed out in morality would help much, Quad. If you take it too far, you'll end up with up with some sort of weird version of WarHammer40k. Perhaps, but I would, at least, like to see some rogue factions in GDI who operate on an "ends justify the means" mentality when dealing with Nod; it would be rather interesting to see infighting among GDI as well as Nod.

SgtRicko
01-21-2008, 08:04 AM
Perhaps, but I would, at least, like to see some rogue factions in GDI who operate on an "ends justify the means" mentality when dealing with Nod; it would be rather interesting to see infighting among GDI as well as Nod.

The day that ever happens... well, let's just say that the church bells would start ringing reeeeeal soon for the GDI...:\