Japanese Faction?

[Derek]

I don't know, but according to this (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/36680/Red-Alert-3-Announced) translation of the Hungarian PC Gamer, thats what we'll be seeing:
Japanese are new to the game, so they have new units for sure. First of all the Sea Wing bomber – it can be converted any time to submarine, and not because it was shot down! Tsunami tank is other new innovation from Japan, that even a big destructor, it loves water. Really. It slows down on the shore, but it got a big gun.

[Daishi]

Why not? Japan was really powerful before WWII, which never happened, and neutrality could have took them time to make a separate military from that of the rest of the world.

[Derek]

Well reaching back into the shady canon of RA2, you'll recall that the Iwo Jima memorial appeared in DC and the sunken Arizona in Pearl Harbor. This idea has been suggested before, but perhaps its time to revive it. USA was not a playable faction in RA1, so perhaps they still had a Pacific War with Japan that more-or-less mirrored the real Pacific theater or WWII. This would explain the WWII memorials and give Japan justification for fighting the US/Allies in RA3 (and they already have plenty of justification for fighting the Soviets).

[starscream007]

Thats really the only faction that I could picture in RA 3, unless the Middle East forms some sort of Alliance. After two World Wars I would think they are a bit annoyed with both sides.

[CO Valle]

I agree with Daishi,

and about the Arizona and the Iwo Jima memorials I think these were only placed for people to get the feeling that they were fighting in Pearl Harbor or continental US.

[Avapodnaught]

Sounds RA enough to me, like starscream said, who else would we see?
I don't think of any more things like Yuri happening quick in the game so Japan is very viable, sounds like it will be a good change to have naval back, I hope I get on that list for Beta :scared:

[starscream007]

Sounds RA enough to me, like starscream said, who else would we see?
I don't think of any more things like Yuri happening quick in the game so Japan is very viable, sounds like it will be a good change to have naval back, I hope I get on that list for Beta :scared:


Like I said the only other groups I could think of would be a Middle East faction. Iraq and Libya leave the Soviet alliance after two wars have left their countries in shambles and decide to unite the Middle East under one banner to wage war against the Soviets and the Allies. Similar to what Egypt tried to do in the actual Cold War. My other question would be; Is Korea still apart of the US/EU alliance or were they engulfed by the Japanese? Also will we see any of the other Characters? Obviously No to Romanov since he is dead and Dugan because of term limits. I was kinda hoping they would put in a forth side but most say that a forth faction is hard to incorporate into a story line although they kinda did for Dawn of War:Dark Crusade.

[Thumper]

it dont matter what the facts are, time travel caused a whole new timeline where the japs are powerfull.

[nilloC]

it dont matter what the facts are, time travel caused a whole new timeline where the japs are powerfull.

I'd hedge a bet the Japanese would be powerful anyways. WWI/WWII/Cold War was such a giant, massive single knot anyways. So I figure it'll all make sense (despite the Iwo Jima memorial thing in RA2... I'm just forgetting that ever existed :p) in time. I hope. Go EA?

[Thumper]

yeah i honestly dont see why the iwo jima or arizona memorial were even in the game if they never mentioned the japanese EVER..... so im willing to forget about it. go ea indeed... though i expect more from them as far as art and design go.... :(

[HawkEye1102002]

Asside from all possible histories of Red Alert, it would make sense that Japan is a part of the Allies

[nilloC]

Asside from all possible histories of Red Alert, it would make sense that Japan is a part of the Allies

How would it possibly make sense that Japan would be part of the Allies? The Japan/US relationship was not too good in the early 20th century. Sure, Japan was allied with France/Britain in WWI but by the 1930's wasn't really on friendly terms with any of the "Allies" of World War II.

[Cylon Crusader]

Japn makes perfect sense for a third faction, before the second WW they had really good and stong military strength.

I wonder if they will have kamikaze units though, like in WW2.

[Lazzars]

I wonder if they will have kamikaze units though, like in WW2.

somehow i doubt that this will make it into the game

[HawkEye1102002]

How would it possibly make sense that Japan would be part of the Allies? The Japan/US relationship was not too good in the early 20th century. Sure, Japan was allied with France/Britain in WWI but by the 1930's wasn't really on friendly terms with any of the "Allies" of World War II.


Communist threat prehaps?

[nilloC]

Communist threat prehaps?

I guess that could be true. I just think of WWII as a battle for empires. But you raise a good point. That's the fun thing about alternate history, everyone can pretty much be right. :p

[Thumper]

somehow i doubt that this will make it into the game

maybe watered down... i mean generals and cnc3 have terrorists that blow themselves up to hurt the enemy. i see no reason why japan cant have a similar unit. but i think more likely that technology will be advanced past that, maybe suicide drones.

remember its only the european versions of these games that have censored units... like how in generals, in europe the terrorists were replaced with bomb robots.

[Derek]

remember its only the european versions of these games that have censored units... like how in generals, in europe the terrorists were replaced with bomb robots.
Actually even that is just the German version.

[Thumper]

ok, just for the germans. you would figure after ww2 they wouldnt be so sensitive lol.

[Derek]

Well actually thats exactly why they're so sensitive. Over compensation really.

[Thumper]

:p

[HawkEye1102002]

Looking at the RA3 story, it looks as if Japan will be the "big bad" side, and the Allied nations and the Soviet bloc looks like they will be united in some cause - I am allready having some second thoughts about RA3.

What I want to know, how did the communists in RA3 get a hold of the chrono device to go back in time - I wonder in the expantion pack, someone goes back in time to STOP the assasination of Einstein.

When was Einstein assasinated, during the Third World War (RA2) - it would be stupid to assasinate Einstein in WW2 or before (RA1) - as far as I can see the RA1 war lasted from 1939 - mid 1960's (Logically the Soviets would have invaded Poland in 1939 with or without the Germans being there).

I am not really liking the Soviet Tesla tank, expecially the chassie, I think a major overhall needs to be done, the tesla turret is fine, but I'd rather have the tesla turret on the T-34 chassie

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Soviet_Tank_T-34.jpg/300px-Soviet_Tank_T-34.jpg

[Lazzars]

its kind of dumb to say by killing einstein then both the RA time line WW2 and OTL WW2 won't happen and insted this new timeline will happen

can't their quit it with the time travel already

[Derek]

I'm hoping (hoping) that this is the last time-travel gag they do, in order to get rid of the god aweful RA2 story line and return to something more reasonable and interesting. Maybe they could even tie it into the tiberium storyline afterall. From the sounds of things though, I'm not incredibly optimistic, and with rumors of Yuri in an expansion pack, it makes me want to gouge my eyes out. :doped:

[Alpha and Omega]

I think irregardless of whether they fit or not, the Japanese allow for some interesting campaign missions. I'd imagine they'll have a commando mission in China helping out local rebels, naval "island-hopping" battles, and huge raids. Makes for good story really.

[Thumper]

for navals sake alone, japan is a good idea.

[Tomahawk]

Why just Japan? The Soviets and the Allies were a consortum, so it would stand to reason that this new faction would be as well. Japan, China, Vientnam and India perhaps?

[Alpha and Omega]

Well, it IS the Japanese EMPIRE...hence it probably includes the lands the took in WW2. Parts of China, Korea, the Philipines, Burma, and such.

[apple23]

All I can really say about RA3 at this point, is "thank god it's finally official" Rumors about this game have been raving since before CNC3 was even being talked about, let alone taken seriously.

Now we know that they are for sure and not gonna keep us in the dark anymore

About japan as a faction, it sounds pretty good so far, like you've all said, who else?

in order to get rid of the god aweful RA2 story line and return to something more reasonable and interesting.
What do you mean, the god awful RA2 storyline? The RA2 storyline was great! Unless, of course, you are talking about the YR crap.

and with rumors of Yuri in an expansion pack, it makes me want to gouge my eyes out.
Agreed

[Derek]

What do you mean, the god awful RA2 storyline? The RA2 storyline was great! Unless, of course, you are talking about the YR crap.
YR was icing on the cake. The original RA2 storyline was pretty piss poor too, contrived setup, terrible actors, cheesy plot devices, there were really no redeeming qualities to it. TS on the other hand, had a very good storyline with great actors (James Earl Jones!).

[CO Valle]

^^ Yes RA2 was fun, but far from serious

[starscream007]

YR was icing on the cake. The original RA2 storyline was pretty piss poor too, contrived setup, terrible actors, cheesy plot devices, there were really no redeeming qualities to it. TS on the other hand, had a very good storyline with great actors (James Earl Jones!).

Getting James Earl Jones was what probably killed their budget. Personaly I hope Zofia makes some sort of comeback but that again depends on how far in time RA 3 goes from RA 2.

[Cylon Crusader]

^^ Yes RA2 was fun, but far from serious

Yeah thats true, but thats what the RA universe is all about, fun.

[crystal_sword]

Yeah thats true, but thats what the RA universe is all about, fun.

exactly, its just a game.

I understand if people want a little realism etc. but Some people get a little to Obsessed with games, too obsessed.

[nilloC]

Yeah thats true, but thats what the RA universe is all about, fun.

Sure, its all about fun... But RA had a pretty serious storyline (as far as alternate history things go) when compared to the light and completely off the wall (sometimes annoying) RA2.

[CO Valle]

exactly, its just a game.


Yes, to some extent, however, I have found (as I'm sure many people have), that games can be something more than just games.

Games are also other mean of story telling, like books, theater, movies or TV shows.

What I'm asking is for a more serious than comic story for RA3 (but that doesn't mean to remove all the comic stuff)

[CrowRbot]

From what I'm reading, the Japanese are a third faction. It would make sense if you extend Japan's government from the 1930s to the present day. They would be vehemently anti-communist, but at the same time their military rule, imperial cult, and other undemocratic institutions such as the thought police would make them undesirable as allies. While the US and Britain were willing to overlook the Soviet Union's negative traits for the sake of an alliance against Germany in World War II, the US and Britain would dislike Japan's efforts to take China (which I figure in the timeline was taken by the Nationalists who were close to the US) and India (which may not be independent in this timeline). I'm figuring the Japanese have started or are re-starting their attempt at the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere, which would likely prove as much a threat to the Allies' interests as the Soviet's interests. They probably have Korea and Taiwan (from takeovers in 1910 and 1895, respectively) and may have Manchuria, but that would probably be it.

[Statalyzer]

YR was icing on the cake. The original RA2 storyline was pretty piss poor too, contrived setup, terrible actors, cheesy plot devices, there were really no redeeming qualities to it.

Well, the intro video was awesome.

[apple23]

YR was icing on the cake. The original RA2 storyline was pretty piss poor too, contrived setup, terrible actors, cheesy plot devices, there were really no redeeming qualities to it. TS on the other hand, had a very good storyline with great actors (James Earl Jones!).


Yeah, you got a pretty good point there. When compared to the other storylines of the CNC games, RA2's was a little too comic. (Civilian movie heroes saving the city...?)

[OneWiseJedi]

was a little too comic Understatement

It would be nice if the Japanese build was different like the GLA was, making it non linear in a sense.

[Statalyzer]

What'd be awesome is to have a decentralized BO for Japan, with no one building like a ConYard that gets taken out and then you can't build anything else. That would be a cool concept for a side, and it'd make the most sense for Japan since their industries, factories, airfields, barracks, shipyards, power plants, etc were very spread out and decentralized in real life at that time.

[Rowmen]

If they recreate a pearl harbour mission it would be ubertasic

[Derek]

What'd be awesome is to have a decentralized BO for Japan, with no one building like a ConYard that gets taken out and then you can't build anything else. That would be a cool concept for a side, and it'd make the most sense for Japan since their industries, factories, airfields, barracks, shipyards, power plants, etc were very spread out and decentralized in real life at that time.
Yeah, thats a great idea! They could send out units to build all over the map instead. That might be a little OP though, so lets just let all the faction do that! Now that might make the game fun!

[Statalyzer]

You totally misconstrued what I said. :nuts:

[Alpha and Omega]

Perhaps a paradropped engineer team? You select a building from a side-bar, or center-bar, whatever...select where it's to be placed, and a plane flys by and drops a few men and crates (it's just an animation, not really controllable units). The men unpack everything and put it together, then run inside to man the structure. That way you can deny the enemy buildings by having a thick air defense (planes should be tough, though), or maybe by knocking out radio communication from a conyard or something...

I dunno, just a thought, could work with the Americans too, what with island hopping and such.

[Quadhelix]

What'd be awesome is to have a decentralized BO for Japan, with no one building like a ConYard that gets taken out and then you can't build anything else. That would be a cool concept for a side, and it'd make the most sense for Japan since their industries, factories, airfields, barracks, shipyards, power plants, etc were very spread out and decentralized in real life at that time.
So, for example, you deploy an Outpost, which allows you to deploy a Basic Infrastructure Crane, which allows you to build Power Plants, Refineries, and other Cranes. Thus, once you build the prerequisites for one, you can build a Production Crane (which can build the Barracks, War Factory, Airfield, etc.) and the Defense Crane, which can build turrets and walls. Later in the game, you can build an Advanced Infrastructure Crane, which can build the Tech Center, Superweapons, and other advanced structures. In case your Basic Infrastructure Crane is destroyed, each crane can build each other type of Crane (or other Cranes of the same type).

Perhaps different types of Crane should have a shared build queue (i.e., having a Basic Infrastructure Crane and Production Crane does not allow you to build a Power Plant and a War Factory at the same time) but building multiple Cranes of the same type will give you multiple build queues (limited, of course, to that structure type). That assumes, of course, that RA3 goes the path of multiple producers=multiple build queues; should they decide to limit the game to a single build queue per type of producer, then all cranes, taken together, would share a single build queue.

[Statalyzer]

It also assumes they continue the crane system. Since I haven't played any C&C title since RA2/YR, I don't know how the cranes work, so I can't really comment on your example or how my example would work with cranes.

[Thumper]

give it to me bitch

[Quadhelix]

It also assumes they continue the crane system. Since I haven't played any C&C title since RA2/YR, I don't know how the cranes work, so I can't really comment on your example or how my example would work with cranes. In C&C3, you build Cranes to get a second (or third, or fourth, or...) build queue for structures without having to build another MCV and Construction Yard; in C&C3, each Construction Yard can build separately from the others, so having five Construction Yards (or four Construction Yards and a Crane, or three Construction Yards and two Cranes, or...) lets you build, for example, three Power Plants, a Barracks, and a Tiberium Refinery, simultaneously.

Of course, the system that I was trying to describe in my previous post is vastly different from the Crane system in C&C3. In C&C3, each Crane has its own build queue. With my idea, however, Cranes of different types share a build queue. Basically, C&C3-style Cranes are useful only if there is some benefit to producing multiple unit/structure producers of the same type (i.e., multiple War Factories and Con. Yards). My idea would work just as well in, for example, a RA2 mod, assuming you could give a side multiple structures that could act as a Con. Yard.

If you go back to my post and replace "Crane" with "mini-Construction Yard," you will probably get the general idea of what I was trying to say.


give it to me bitch
Thank you for that thoughtful and enlightening comment. Perhaps you could kindly tell us what "it" is, as you have obviously been generous and overestimated our intelligence and ability to deduce the meaning of context-less pronouns.

[Derek]

You totally misconstrued what I said. :nuts:
Yes, that was the point. Its called sarcasm. Here, I'll redo my post sans-sarcasm:

What'd be awesome is to have a decentralized BO for Japan, with no one building like a ConYard that gets taken out and then you can't build anything else. That would be a cool concept for a side, and it'd make the most sense for Japan since their industries, factories, airfields, barracks, shipyards, power plants, etc were very spread out and decentralized in real life at that time.
Yes, a dozer/worker system is essential for a great RTS. All factions in RA3 should have some sort of unit that builds structures and can be harassed. The decentralized BOs you're talking about (which in other games are just called "BOs", woops getting sarcastic again) and an unrivaled amount of diversity and strategic depth to the game.

Since I haven't played any C&C title since RA2/YR
FFS get Generals. Its so much better than RA2, but you'll never understand why if you've never played it.

[Statalyzer]

Yes, a dozer/worker system is essential for a great RTS. All factions in RA3 should have some sort of unit that builds structures and can be harassed

So you're saying RA and RA2 and TD and TS all sucked for having a conyard and not a dozer or crane?

FFS get Generals. Its so much better than RA2, but you'll never understand why if you've never played it.

I have TFD, but I don't even have enough time to stay good at the PC games I play semi-regularly, much less learn a brand new one.

[Derek]

So you're saying RA and RA2 and TD and TS all sucked for having a conyard and not a dozer or crane?
For multiplayer, yes. You don't notice the difference playing singleplayer. Cranes don't help a whole lot though, so CNC3 is easily lumped in there as well.

I have TFD, but I don't even have enough time to stay good at the PC games I play semi-regularly, much less learn a brand new one.
College bites then? If you're still playing RA2 at all, then try for one or two weeks playing ZH instead. Watch some replays (http://gamereplays.org/cncreplays/portal.htm) first so you don't waste your time at the n00b level first though. (Or just watch some replays so you know what the game is like, even if you never play it)

[Statalyzer]

College bites then?

I'm out of college. I could play a lot more computer games than I do, but at the expense of hanging out with friends, playing basketball/football/frisbee, etc.

For multiplayer, yes.

Well, I like playing multiplayer in RA2. If you don't, fine, it's just a difference of opinion, not objective fact. It does make me wonder why you've been on a C&C forum for so long if you thought the first four C&C games were so bad, but anyway, what I'm talking about works with cranes or dozers as well, as far as I know. Let me make sure:

With TW cranes, what happens if you have cranes but no conyard? Can you still build anything your prereqs allow you to, or do you have to have a conyard?

With Gen dozers/workers, don't you have to build a conyard-like building at the beginning that is the prereq to all the other basic structures? If your command center (or whatever it's called) is destroyed, does that affect what your dozers can build?

[Quadhelix]

With TW cranes, what happens if you have cranes but no conyard? Can you still build anything your prereqs allow you to, or do you have to have a conyard? Cranes do not require a Construction Yard to function, and can build any structure except other Cranes.

With Gen dozers/workers, don't you have to build a conyard-like building at the beginning that is the prereq to all the other basic structures? If your command center (or whatever it's called) is destroyed, does that affect what your dozers can build? I do not believe so; IIRC, the Command Center is not a prerequisite for any structure.

[Daishi]

With TW cranes, what happens if you have cranes but no conyard? Can you still build anything your prereqs allow you to, or do you have to have a conyard?
The differences between the functions of the deployed conyard and the crane are:
1) The crane costs power while the MCV provides it
2) The crane cannot build other cranes, the MCV can.
3) The crane cannot build base defenses, superweapons, or outpost units, but can still build tiberium silos from the support structure tab (growth Accelerators for Scrin)

With Gen dozers/workers, don't you have to build a conyard-like building at the beginning that is the prereq to all the other basic structures? If your command center (or whatever it's called) is destroyed, does that affect what your dozers can build?
Every Gen/ZH match starts immediately with a single builder unit and a fully constructed Command Center. The Command Center provides additional intelligence for USA (China's comes at a price) and allows support powers to be deployed after the game has progressed, at which time most players rebuild their sold Command Center.

To answer your question, loss of the Command Center doesn't affect your construction trees at all, provided that you protect your builders. (non-GLA can get builders exclusively from the CC)

If you sell your command center, you will be deprived of intelligence that is usually unnecessary if you practice good map awareness, and will have to pay 2000 once you reach your second promotion before you can use your support powers, and on top of that, you will risk losing your initial builder units and being unable to build more as non-GLA, but you are allowed to invest an extra $1000 into your build order, enough to give you a good economic advantage over the poorer enemy regardless of your faction, provided you're playing aggressively.

It should be noted that non-GLAs ALWAYS build their power plant before they do anything.

[Derek]

Daishi pretty much covered the cranes and dozers.

Well, I like playing multiplayer in RA2. If you don't, fine, it's just a difference of opinion, not objective fact. It does make me wonder why you've been on a C&C forum for so long if you thought the first four C&C games were so bad, but anyway, what I'm talking about works with cranes or dozers as well, as far as I know. Let me make sure:
1. I didn't join these forums until I was playing Generals (which was the exact same time I got a good internet connection)
2. The previous CNC games weren't bad, just the multiplayer was.
3. I was too naive at the time to know the difference.

My perspectives on RTS games were basically completely destroyed and rebuilt when I started playing ZH competetively (and further refined when I played CNC3 and saw how if failed). Its night and day.

[Avapodnaught]

I usually build a barracks first thing on my Zh games (to grab oils I build 2, one making infantry and the other the upgrade, and sell one when I am done with it... also I am making a rush where I can do this and chinook over a md and flash bang upgraded rifleman, I will tell you if I succeed or not *and I predict no md will be needed for Gla :evil:... if it works :()

Does making a power make building structures go by faster?
Like a Gla force capturing a dozer or power and making 'em?

[Derek]

Not a very good BO. Oil grab is risky and rarely worth it. If you're going to do it though, you only need one barracks. Train the infantry, then get the upgrade while they're walking to the oil.

And always, always, always build a powerplant first thing. Power>Barracks finishes faster than immediately building a barracks, because having power halves all build times.

[SgtRicko]

I find it odd that you call Generals incredibly balanced and varied despite the fact that one pretty much has to sell their Command Centers in any serious game if they wish to win at all, Derek.:|

[Derek]

Yeah, its what you do after you sell your CC that counts. You're not going to find an RTS where every strategy you can imagine is viable, as then there would be no strategy at all. There always have to be some strategies that are better, in this case, selling your CC is better, but that still leaves a huge variety of BOs open. (Compare it to how in RA2 you always go Power>Barracks>Refinery)

[OneWiseJedi]

Zero Hour is the greatest RTS ever, nothing else even comes close.

Statalyzer there is no way you have such a slow learning curve.

[SgtRicko]

ZH the best RTS, ever? Not by a long shot. The only thing that was great about it was the multiplayer; everything else actually kinda sucked, especially in terms of realism and story, which are fairly important to me.

As for Stat's slow learning curve... well, ever since I got C&C3 I've actually been losing my capability to micro efficiently over time for some reason or another. It might be my mouse, or the fact that I just don't play on my comp that much these days, but I'm beginning to believe that I've just simply lost the coordination or sharp eyes necessary (actually, my eyes have always sucked since I have astigmatism) to do the task of micromanaging a crapload of units all over the map effectively. Because of that, I've been avoiding games that require serious speed with the mouse or keyboard, or are really, really fast-paced in exchange for games like GalCiv II, MGS2, or Advance Wars.

Oh and Stat, RA2 FTW!!!:tantrum:

[Derek]

ZH the best RTS, ever? Not by a long shot. The only thing that was great about it was the multiplayer;
Thats all that matters for an RTS.

As for Stat's slow learning curve... well, ever since I got C&C3 I've actually been losing my capability to micro efficiently over time for some reason or another. It might be my mouse, or the fact that I just don't play on my comp that much these days, but I'm beginning to believe that I've just simply lost the coordination or sharp eyes necessary (actually, my eyes have always sucked since I have astigmatism) to do the task of micromanaging a crapload of units all over the map effectively.
Its because you're playing a game that requires no micro. Don't practice micro -> lose micro ability.

Oh and Stat, RA2 FTW!!!:tantrum:
Yay tank spam! :rolleyes:

[SgtRicko]

Yay tank spam! :rolleyes:

Damn straight!:D

[CO Valle]

Thats all that matters for an RTS.

Wrong!, but I'm not getting into this discussion :scared:, we know we have different points of view on this.

Sorry, just had to voice it over.
:wave:

[Wow Your Ugly]

Stat is 110% correct. RA2 > Generals by a longshot. I own both games, have played each game including multiplayer many times (including expansions), and RA2 is simply way more fun. I don't care what anyone else says, it's a matter of opinion and RA2 is Command and Conquer to the core. Generals/ZH, clearly isn't.

[Cylon Crusader]

ZH the best RTS, ever? Not by a long shot. The only thing that was great about it was the multiplayer; everything else actually kinda sucked, especially in terms of realism and story, which are fairly important to me.

As for Stat's slow learning curve... well, ever since I got C&C3 I've actually been losing my capability to micro efficiently over time for some reason or another. It might be my mouse, or the fact that I just don't play on my comp that much these days, but I'm beginning to believe that I've just simply lost the coordination or sharp eyes necessary (actually, my eyes have always sucked since I have astigmatism) to do the task of micromanaging a crapload of units all over the map effectively. Because of that, I've been avoiding games that require serious speed with the mouse or keyboard, or are really, really fast-paced in exchange for games like GalCiv II, MGS2, or Advance Wars.

Oh and Stat, RA2 FTW!!!:tantrum:


True that, I wouldn't label Generals or ZH the best RTS game ever made in the history of RTS games, but as for the realism part, it was the most realistic CNC game, if you include it into the CNC genre and place it in today's time period.

[Statalyzer]

Statalyzer there is no way you have such a slow learning curve.

It has nothing to do with a slow learning curve.

Yay tank spam!

There's so much more to RA2 than tank spam.

Stat is 110% correct.

I'm not even saying what you think I'm saying. I'm just saying RA2 is fairly-well balanced and exceptionally fun and I'd rather use my time on the computer to play RA2 and NavyField than stop playing RA2 altogether and start playing a new game that doesn't look as fun.

Now, back to the friggin' original point, it would be interesting for the Japanese not to have that one centralized hub of building (call it a Command Center, Conyard, etc, whatever you want) at all. So, there's no way to just stop all or a significant part of build capacity by destroying a single building, although you could of course blast off part of the tech tree as usual.

[firest0rm]

omg you people like generals and zh are stupid

it aint even a real C&C game the storry line sucks ass and its buggy as hell

that game was made by eala back in the time that they dint care about the community the game sucks it shouldent be called C&C its stupid

[Rowmen]

I never bothered with generals I played the demo and Didn't like it so I kept with ra2

[Derek]

There's so much more to RA2 than tank spam.
There is so much more to CNC3 than tank spam too, but if you don't spam tanks (or the equivalent OP unit in CNC3, depending on what patch you have) you will lose, in both games. I've played RA2 seriously in the last few weeks, and I've watched some videos (boo for old games with no replays) posted by our good friend Piscinex himself. The game is tank spam. You can build fodder, you can engineer rush, you can build terror drones, you can spam rocketeers, but you're still spamming tanks at the same time. The only counter to tanks is more tanks, and any game that has that kind of "balance" is going to result in spam.

I'm not even saying what you think I'm saying. I'm just saying RA2 is fairly-well balanced and exceptionally fun and I'd rather use my time on the computer to play RA2 and NavyField than stop playing RA2 altogether and start playing a new game that doesn't look as fun.
I'm not asking you to quit playing RA2. I'm asking you to play Zero Hour seriously. That means 1v1 Tournament Desert, no rules (or 2v2 Fallen Empire if you can get good enough). You can play me if you want, I'm always willing to help people. You don't know the game, you've admitted it yourself. I'm asking that you educate yourself on the game so you know what your're talking about, because I know I can't do it for you.

Now, back to the friggin' original point, it would be interesting for the Japanese not to have that one centralized hub of building (call it a Command Center, Conyard, etc, whatever you want) at all. So, there's no way to just stop all or a significant part of build capacity by destroying a single building, although you could of course blast off part of the tech tree as usual.
Thats a good idea, but again, what you're basically asking for is either a dozer or a crane system. Unless you have something more specific to suggest.

omg you people like generals and zh are stupid

it aint even a real C&C game the storry line sucks ass and its buggy as hell
Your arguements are so persuasive.

[Quadhelix]

Now, back to the friggin' original point, it would be interesting for the Japanese not to have that one centralized hub of building (call it a Command Center, Conyard, etc, whatever you want) at all. So, there's no way to just stop all or a significant part of build capacity by destroying a single building, although you could of course blast off part of the tech tree as usual. Well, you sort of have that with Generals: destroying a players' Command Center only stops that player from building more Dozers, which can build an unlimited number of structures.

To restate my original suggestion is this regard, perhaps the Empire could have buildable Con Yards (i.e., Cranes); The difference between these "Mini-Yards"/Cranes and the Cranes of C&C3 are that a Mini-Yard cannot build all types of structures but only certain structures; also, building multiple types of Mini-Yard does not give additional build queues. If (and only if) Red Alert 3 has a multiple build queue system, building multiple Mini-Yards of a given type would allow you to build multiple structures of that type.

So far, the types of Mini-Yard I have in mind are:

Armored Yard: Builds only other Mini-Yards, deployed from an MCV-like vehicle.
Basic Infrastructure Yard: Builds Power Plants, Refineries, (Radar Domes?), and other Mini-Yards.
Production Infrastructure Yard: Builds Barracks, War Factories, Airfields, and other Mini-Yards.
Defense Yard: Builds turrets, walls, and other Mini-Yards.
Advanced Infrastructure Yard: Builds Tech Centers, (Radar Domes?), Post-Tech Center Structures, Superweapons, and other Mini-Yards.
Note: as I said early, building different types of Mini-Yard does not add new build queues: If you have an Advanced Infrastructure Yard and a Production Infrastructure Yard, you can build either a Tech Center or a War Factory, but not both at the same time. On the other hand, if you have two Basic Infrastructure Yards, you can build a Power Plant and a Refinery at the same time (assuming, again, that Red Alert 3 uses multiple build queues).

[SgtRicko]

Well, you sort of have that with Generals: destroying a players' Command Center only stops that player from building more Dozers, which can build an unlimited number of structures.

To restate my original suggestion is this regard, perhaps the Empire could have buildable Con Yards (i.e., Cranes); The difference between these "Mini-Yards"/Cranes and the Cranes of C&C3 are that a Mini-Yard cannot build all types of structures but only certain structures; also, building multiple types of Mini-Yard does not give additional build queues. If (and only if) Red Alert 3 has a multiple build queue system, building multiple Mini-Yards of a given type would allow you to build multiple structures of that type.

So far, the types of Mini-Yard I have in mind are:

Armored Yard: Builds only other Mini-Yards, deployed from an MCV-like vehicle.
Basic Infrastructure Yard: Builds Power Plants, Refineries, (Radar Domes?), and other Mini-Yards.
Production Infrastructure Yard: Builds Barracks, War Factories, Airfields, and other Mini-Yards.
Defense Yard: Builds turrets, walls, and other Mini-Yards.
Advanced Infrastructure Yard: Builds Tech Centers, (Radar Domes?), Post-Tech Center Structures, Superweapons, and other Mini-Yards.Note: as I said early, building different types of Mini-Yard does not add new build queues: If you have an Advanced Infrastructure Yard and a Production Infrastructure Yard, you can build either a Tech Center or a War Factory, but not both at the same time. On the other hand, if you have two Basic Infrastructure Yards, you can build a Power Plant and a Refinery at the same time (assuming, again, that Red Alert 3 uses multiple build queues).

Too many yards to manage, if you ask me. Two or three would be enough -- probably the armored, defense, and infrastructure yard should make it complex, but not convoluted.

[Quadhelix]

Too many yards to manage, if you ask me. Two or three would be enough -- probably the armored, defense, and infrastructure yard should make it complex, but not convoluted. I would say that, at the very least, more advanced structures like the Tech Center and Superweapons should be built at a different Mini-Yard than Power Plants and Refineries. That way, a player would not be able to build a boatload of Mini-Yards to build Refineries and then, once the Refineries are done, start cranking out War Factories.

As clarification, the build queue for each Mini-Yard would contain every type of structure so you can, for example, tell an Advanced Infrastructure Yard to build a Power Plant, it is just that you must have at least one inactive Basic Infrastructure Yard for the Power Plant to be built.

Also, I think that it would probably be a good idea to limit the player to building one Mini-Yard at a time, but can do so from any of his Mini-Yards.

[Statalyzer]

Thats a good idea, but again, what you're basically asking for is either a dozer or a crane system. Unless you have something more specific to suggest.

Well, let's take the RA2 system. The cranes, caterpillers, scaffolding, raw materials, workers, etc, are all not present in the game but their presence is clearly assumed or else the buildings cannot be built. It's also apparently assumed that these things are stored in the ConYard, since if your ConYards are destroyed you can no longer build buildings. Instead, what if RA2 had a Japanese side that wasn't assumed to store these things in the Conyard, but just dispersed them around the battlefield? So, as long as you had some buildings around you could always build more, assuming the proper prerequisites. It wouldn't be a better or worse system (assuming you came up with a good way to get the first building placed), but different - which somewhat makes it better since it adds variety.

[Zardac the Great]

WOOOHOOOO! RA3 IS COMING!!!

I told people that something was going on with the Japanese. The Arizona memorial denotes a war. I just assumed that the US had cleaned the board with them.

I'm sad the Allies are evil this time around though...

Oh well. It seems there aren't any "good guys" this time around.

[Quadhelix]

Well, let's take the RA2 system. The cranes, caterpillers, scaffolding, raw materials, workers, etc, are all not present in the game but their presence is clearly assumed or else the buildings cannot be built. It's also apparently assumed that these things are stored in the ConYard, since if your ConYards are destroyed you can no longer build buildings. Instead, what if RA2 had a Japanese side that wasn't assumed to store these things in the Conyard, but just dispersed them around the battlefield? So, as long as you had some buildings around you could always build more, assuming the proper prerequisites. It wouldn't be a better or worse system (assuming you came up with a good way to get the first building placed), but different - which somewhat makes it better since it adds variety. That system would be so hard to balance that I have difficulty accurately describing how unbalanced that would be. Basically, as long as the Empire had a single functioning Power Plant, they would be able to build new structures. That means that the only way to stop an Empire player from building new structures would be to completely wipe out their base and all of their expansions. The Allies and Soviets loose their ability to produce structures if their Construction Yard is destroyed; the same is not true with your Empire build system.

[SgtRicko]

That system would be so hard to balance that I have difficulty accurately describing how unbalanced that would be. Basically, as long as the Empire had a single functioning Power Plant, they would be able to build new structures. That means that the only way to stop an Empire player from building new structures would be to completely wipe out their base and all of their expansions. The Allies and Soviets loose their ability to produce structures if their Construction Yard is destroyed; the same is not true with your Empire build system.

Would be a pretty good idea if you wanted to make a Borg faction mod, though!:p

[Alpha and Omega]

Well, you could make the Empire's buildings expensive. After all, it IS Japan. They have to import everything. So they can always build, but you can hit their income to stop them.

[Statalyzer]

That means that the only way to stop an Empire player from building new structures would be to completely wipe out their base and all of their expansions. The Allies and Soviets loose their ability to produce structures if their Construction Yard is destroyed; the same is not true with your Empire build system.

I agree it would be hard, but it'd be doable; for example, perhaps you could compensate for it by making their power plants weaker, so it's harder to totally stop production but easier to knock them into low power and make things go offline and build more slowly.

[OneWiseJedi]

This is exactly what I was talking about earlier It would be nice if the Japanese build was different like the GLA was, making it non linear in a sense. The GLA in Zero hour could get workers from both command center or supply; way cheaper and more numerous than dozers. GLA start with no radar(stealth detection) for quite a while into the game, things of this sort. Hard to balance yes, impossible no. This makes for a way deeper, hard counter game.

I always felt Dune then ZeroHour were the most important RTS games ever made and speak for themselves.

Lets hope Kanes Wrath then Red Alert 3 dont disappoint. I look forward to playing the beta online with DGNF members. I have found one of the only good things about CC3 so far have been the DGNF members. Lets hope that Red Alert 3 and Kanes Wrath will have more of you gaming.

[Thumper]

give it to me bitch


WTF, i didnt post that.

[Commander Dave]

The japanese look to be a very formidable faction in the game , but there are alot of variables in the game , watch for king oni

[apple23]

again, wtf are you doing bumping 5 month old threads with this spam?