Yuri's Defences

[SickOner]

:cool:Hi! I like a lot play with Yuri cos its easy defending from the AI, but when it's time to play a survival map, it is not so easy... for example, when there come robot tanks, or units that can't be owned with mind control it starts to be difficult. Allied and Soviet (soviet the most), have good defenses... sentry gun/pillbox, tesla coil/prism tower and battle bunker, that i think it's very good for defending. I think Yuri needs a defence building coz gattling cannons are good anti-air and anti-infantry, but not agains tanks, specially anti mind control, coz then psychic towers wont work...:chin:

what do you think about it? does yuri need a new deffence building?:freek:

[truefeel]

Yuri is overpowered already... against none-mindcontrolable units you use magnetrons+floating disks.

[Rowmen]

Your saying make Yuri stronger because Allies have robot tanks. The whole point allies have robot tanks is to equal strength with Yuri. Plus thats only one unit. Besides the fact people barely make robot tanks anyway

[SickOner]

Your saying make Yuri stronger because Allies have robot tanks. The whole point allies have robot tanks is to equal strength with Yuri. Plus thats only one unit. Besides the fact people barely make robot tanks anyway


in a survival map i played, there came lot and lot of war miners and slave miners, and, really, they were VERY problematics... gattling towers didnt make them any good damage, psychic towers off, and other units didnt have enough attack.. i know ppl doesnt make this kind of attacks but there are no good defences for those ones. same happened with master minds.. i lost all my units defending.:freek:

[truefeel]

People should stop thinking in flyingzmap terms. The game was not designed for such maps (and that's no offense against flyingz; the maps are good) and it would be idiotic to adapt the game to flyingz maps. That would just not be YR anymore. Like that elite war miner rush: it is not realistic. Elite units are already rare, and war miner are rare² b/c that they are not designed for real combat.

Also, flyingz maps are designed to be played with multiple human players with each a different side; each side has an advantage. Yuri has the ability to process masses of mind controlable units and floating disks do alot of damage to the rest. If you really need anti-armour, you need to have an allied country for mirages. But having a yuri player will make the game alot more easier.

[Daishi]

Well, in one of these survival maps, a wall of Brutes and Initiates would probably stop those robot tanks. And Dr. Feel's right: RA2 was not designed to be played defensively and siege against Yuri should not be any more complicated than it already is for the soviets.

[Rowmen]

true

[thetechieotaku]

Why don't you try using 5 lashers and a couple of brutes? just watch out for terror drones.

[Statalyzer]

Why do you need defenses to stop robot tanks? Your own tanks can take care of them.

[apple23]

despite being non-Mindcontrollable, Robot Tanks are one of the weakest units in the game. If any other units attack before the robots, mind control them with the psychic towers adn use them to defend against non-Mind controllableable units

[Gaucho8788]

I don't know, it's just the way I play makes it hard for me to use Yuri. I guess thats the only way I can put it because I'll do good with most other factions but then I use Yuri and I just don't do as good.

[Statalyzer]

Yeah, Yuri is definitely the best army, but it does take some getting used to. I never played Yuri often enough to have him be overpowered when I used him, except on a few select maps like Isle of War.

[truefeel]

Lol, it's easy infact. Just make tanks and a few magnetrons. automagging is just redicolous powerfull. Don't worry about mistakes either. As yuri, you can afford it. While other factions cannot make any mistake against yuri or they'll loose the game.

[Statalyzer]

Come on dude, you of all people should know how many small details contribute to success. The right ratio of stuff to build, how to micro units in combinations, how many miners to get, etc. I know how powerful magnetrons are, and try to use them, but I'm still not more dangerous with Yuri than with Allies or Soviets. Now if I played as Yuri more than once every 30 or 40 games or so, I'm sure I would be.

[Gaucho8788]

You can be dangerous with any side, you just have to know how to use them. Some take more skill then others.

[truefeel]

Come on dude, you of all people should know how many small details contribute to success. The right ratio of stuff to build, how to micro units in combinations, how many miners to get, etc. I know how powerful magnetrons are, and try to use them, but I'm still not more dangerous with Yuri than with Allies or Soviets. Now if I played as Yuri more than once every 30 or 40 games or so, I'm sure I would be.

Playing yuri gives you 80% chance to win, if you know the tricks (against players of same skillz). If you can micro well beside that, you have like 90% chance to win with yuri. I'm neither a yuri player, but I do win with yuri against players who ussually beat me in SvS. And I play yuri maybe one time in 100 games. Things like amount of miners and BOs are not small details anymore. They are standard. It is not considered skill anymore. Yuri is certainly not undefeatable, but it takes some serious microing to win from it. Now luckily, there are no good yuri players anymore (nobody plays the side), except one who recently came back. Check rouiette on the ladder. I fought him alot of times, I got to beat him like 60% when he was not yuri, but I never could win of him when he was yuri.

You can be dangerous with any side, you just have to know how to use them. Some take more skill then others.

Exactly. And that makes yuri OP. An other player needs to have much more skillz to win with a different side.

[apple23]

I hate to sound like a noob here, but I haven't heard the term "auto-magging" in ages. Could someone please explain what this means? I forgot...

Anyways, Dr. Feel is right, once again. A good yuri player with good micro and who really knows the tricks of playing yuri has probably a 70% chance of winning against an equal skilled player just because of how deadly yuri's mixes can be. Its really not even the mindcontrol part of him that's a problem...

[truefeel]

normally, magnetrons do not automatically target units. But you can let them do that (I'm not telling how; automagging is lame). That way magnetrons always target automatically, which is far easier then manually target the vehicle (and faster too). The problem is that it is so easy. It does not require any skills, you only to know what command you need to give and I'm glad most of the people don't know it, which I want to keep that way.

Its really not even the mindcontrol part of him that's a problem...

Yeh indeed. If the problem was only mind control, there was infact no problem. But yuri has units which each one of them very strong in one specific thing. You need very few units (some more then others) to get that strong mix. The magnetron functions as the key unit. It makes up for the weakness of yuri that he can't mass units (due that he needs alot of different types of units at the same time). Without the magnetron, it's easy to just spam tanks and run yuri over. But the magnetron makes massing units obsolete.

[apple23]

well if mags don't auto target, there's only one way to make them... It's that same logic that lets AI attack on the move with any unit (no joke: AI can attack on the move with an apocalypse.)

[truefeel]

edit that away plz. auto magging is lame and if every yuri player is going to do that, the game will be alot less fun.

[jo_2]

Certainly a Yuri player can be harder to defeat than Soviets or Allies. But I think some exaggeration has taken place. While the Psychic Towers wave goodbye to the possibility of an early enemy tank rush, later on in the game if you get together a bunch of robot tanks and 5 or 6 prisms tanks, with a couple mirages for backup, the prisms take care of the towers and the other units of some mastermind or yuri clone coming your way. And that way you can take out his/her most vital defences.

I think it comes down to skill at the end. You have to be quicker and more skilled to ouwit a yuri foe. But surely it isn't all that hard.

[Statalyzer]

That's why Yuri shouldn't depend on Psy Towers for security.

[truefeel]

Certainly a Yuri player can be harder to defeat than Soviets or Allies. But I think some exaggeration has taken place. While the Psychic Towers wave goodbye to the possibility of an early enemy tank rush, later on in the game if you get together a bunch of robot tanks and 5 or 6 prisms tanks, with a couple mirages for backup, the prisms take care of the towers and the other units of some mastermind or yuri clone coming your way. And that way you can take out his/her most vital defences.

*this is getting very old*

You see it wrong. Let me put it this way: there are static defences and mobile defences. Mobile defences are far better then static defences. This is the part where you have read attentively -this must be the hundred time I gone through this lol- : yuri is something special. Where allieds and especially soviet rely on massing on one type of unitm yuri relies on mixing up units. Now you might ask why soviets and allieds don't mix up that well. The problem is that some units simply not worth to build most of the time or massing units is far better. Yuri on the other hand has all units worth to be build b/c they all excell at a thing. Gatt tanks are the best ground AA units and are on top of that very effective against lighter armoured units. Lasher tanks, well, don't excell but I'll get back on that later. Masterminds are very armoured and can mind control alot of units. Floating Disks fire on the move, are well armoured , do alot of damage and are quite fast. Finally, you have the key unit. All what I mentioned before would be less effective then massing tanks when you mix those yuri units. The key unit though is the magnetron. Alone, it's nothing. Yet, in combination with other units it's devestating. A few magnetrons as backup lift up quite a big number of vehicles at a short amount of time. Lifted up units can't fire back and are vulnerable to gatt tanks and once on ground, are still disabled for a second. I'm not going to explain everything now due I don't have alot time atm. I will say though that you will have a diffcicult time to get your battle lab up to make as allieds the units you really need to fight a yuri player who knows the basics. However, mostly you will not get there and he just destroys you, simply b/c you can't counter 2 magetrons and a few gatt tanks properly with the unit you have at that moment available. So try it out with robo tanks which are weaker then grizzly tanks and you don't have to build b/c a yuri player simply will not make yuri clones normally.

There are counters for other sides against yuri. I'm not saying you can't win. However, do remind that you can't afford a mistake while the yuri can afford multiple. Also: as any soviet other then Iraq it's nearly impossible to win b/c of no desolator.

I think it comes down to skill at the end. You have to be quicker and more skilled to ouwit a yuri foe. But surely it isn't all that hard.

Of course it comes down on skill. It comes down that you need to have much more skill to outclass a regular yuri player who doesn't even know the meaning of skill

[sg500]

Certainly a Yuri player can be harder to defeat than Soviets or Allies. But I think some exaggeration has taken place. While the Psychic Towers wave goodbye to the possibility of an early enemy tank rush, later on in the game if you get together a bunch of robot tanks and 5 or 6 prisms tanks, with a couple mirages for backup, the prisms take care of the towers and the other units of some mastermind or yuri clone coming your way. And that way you can take out his/her most vital defences.

I think it comes down to skill at the end. You have to be quicker and more skilled to ouwit a yuri foe. But surely it isn't all that hard.

america and gb have the greatest chances of defeating yuri. Always have.Mirage > all yuri land vehicles , prism in greater numbers > magnetrons. if they mass units tanya solves. If u anticipate disks then bfs ftw. if ur micromanagment is correct its allies slight edge over yuri on land maps with or w/o sw on.

[truefeel]

I think that either france (Grand Cannons is something yuri has not a direct answer too) or iraq make the best chance, next to being yuri yourself of course.

Btw, it's more like mirages against masterminds, prism tanks against everything else on ground (except slave miners !) and either alot of GGI IFVs or a few GGI BFs, depending on how good ur skills are.

[Lyserg33]

I think battle fortresses with a load of guardian GI`s can bust up a magnetron.

[Statalyzer]

Yes usually but that isolated fight won't happen very often.

[truefeel]

I think battle fortresses with a load of guardian GI`s can bust up a magnetron.

With BFs alone you will not get far alone, although it requires for the yuri player a bit more cautious approach. It's in theory simple: you keep a floating disk in the neighbourhood. Let the BF attack the flaoting disk. If you move the floating disk away, the missiles will miss, but the BF keep firing. Bring in a magnetron, lift it up and do whatever you want to do with it (preferably mind control); the BF will still shoot at the flaoting disk and you cannot control it then.

What you need is a strong base of prism tanks, preferable veteran (spy). If has masterminds, you need a handfull of mirage tanks. On top of that if he has flaotng disks, you need for every flaotind disk 2 GGI IFVs or for every 2 flaoting disks 1 GGI BF. If you don't have alot of TC, I would take the GGI IFVs, as loosing a GGI BF weights, or even worse: mind-controlled, weights alot more through.

[jo_2]

I agree with sg500 on this issue.

I'd put my money on Great Britain and America as the best Allied nations to use against Yuri. Those snipers are great against brute rushes, yuri clones, or Yuri prime or whatever else infantry the enemy throws at you. Particularly inside an IFV.

[truefeel]

Well, most yuri players barely use infantry (except on urban maps with alot of buildings), so Great Britain is not really effective when there is no infantry to shoot.

France is probably the most effective side against yuri.

[GettinGwap]

Since the Allies and Soviets have units to counter mind control, they should've each had counters to mags. I mean, in X-Men, the humans countered Magneto with plastic weapons. The Allies tanks are basically plastic anyways, so it shouldn't be a problem. I think it would be more balanced because Yuri still has mind control and disks to counter the non-metal unit.

[apple23]

Since the Allies and Soviets have units to counter mind control, they should've each had counters to mags. I mean, in X-Men, the humans countered Magneto with plastic weapons. The Allies tanks are basically plastic anyways, so it shouldn't be a problem. I think it would be more balanced because Yuri still has mind control and disks to counter the non-metal unit.

X-Men is less realistic than RA2 is. Plastic tanks? Come on, let's get at least back into the realm of reasonable possibility. Perhaps some cool magnetic field disruptor tank? That would be pretty cool.

And what unit does the soviets have that effectively counters mind control? Terror drones maybe, but if there is any non MC support you're screwed. At least Allied Robot tanks stand a small chance...

And the only thing GB is good for against yuri is sniping out his slaves at the ore fields. Quite effective, but not useful outside of that.

[truefeel]

X-Men is less realistic than RA2 is. Plastic tanks? Come on, let's get at least back into the realm of reasonable possibility. Perhaps some cool magnetic field disruptor tank? That would be pretty cool.Grizzly tanks have in online world of RA2 the nickname "plastic tanks" (pointing on how weak they are). Gettingwap made a good joke about that :).

And what unit does the soviets have that effectively counters mind control? Terror drones maybe, but if there is any non MC support you're screwed. At least Allied Robot tanks stand a small chance...Robo tanks fail miserable for the same reason why terror drones will fail: non MC units.

And the only thing GB is good for against yuri is sniping out his slaves at the ore fields. Quite effective, but not useful outside of that.You can kill slaves with a dog. Slaves are atleast one weakness of yuri: easy to kill. Unfortunaly the slaves are free, regenerate quite fast and the slave miner has a gun quite effective against infantry.

[Statalyzer]

You can kill slaves with a dog but the miner will probably kill your dog.

[truefeel]

All small bits help to the cause :).

[GettinGwap]

[quote=apple23;394039]X-Men is less realistic than RA2 is. Plastic tanks? Come on, let's get at least back into the realm of reasonable possibility. Perhaps some cool magnetic field disruptor tank? That would be pretty cool.

i mean if the makers of the game thought it through with auto-magginig, then they would have made a counter for magnetron. granted, it has weaknesses such as infantry and the armor is crap, but infantry can get slaughtered by the droves by everything yuri has and the armor is not a problem once u mix the other units yuri has with the mags. and don't let the yuri player have a big army, with like 5 or more mags. once u see that, say gg and brace for the worst.:cry:

[apple23]

But that's the problem; EA didn't think it over enough. The entirety of Yuri's faction was not thought-through enough, the entire expansion pack was not thought-through enough (Making BFs the way they are right now? WTF was EA thinking???).

[truefeel]

More over yet, thinking that one single yuri naval unit would be balanced compared to soviets/allieds who have a wide gamma of naval units ? That's not creativity, that's rushing out games/being very louzy.

Hmm, I need to start working again on that patch...

[GettinGwap]

More over yet, thinking that one single yuri naval unit would be balanced compared to soviets/allieds who have a wide gamma of naval units ? That's not creativity, that's rushing out games/being very louzy.

Hmm, I need to start working again on that patch...

I would have to play it once it's complete.

[truefeel]

Meh, I first need to find time. Then I need to find a way to get me behind the task. Then I need to find the files and lastly I need to get my YR working.

[GettinGwap]

X-Men is less realistic than RA2 is. Plastic tanks? Come on, let's get at least back into the realm of reasonable possibility. Perhaps some cool magnetic field disruptor tank? That would be pretty cool.

And what unit does the soviets have that effectively counters mind control? Terror drones maybe, but if there is any non MC support you're screwed. At least Allied Robot tanks stand a small chance...

And the only thing GB is good for against yuri is sniping out his slaves at the ore fields. Quite effective, but not useful outside of that.

Well if you want to stay in the "realm of reasonable possibilty", then several of the Allied units would have to removed. The mirage tank being first out of their arsenal. Chrono technology(miners, chronosphere, legionnaire) would also have to go. That's 4 units all commonly used. Besides, if we leave the game as is, then the Allies could come up with counters especially with them having tanks that could camouflage. I mean wtf? A tree tank?!:wtf: Anyway, magnets only attract to three main metals: iron, cobalt, and nickel. The Allies being crafty as they are, could come up with another alloy that doesn't consist of these metals.

[apple23]

Well if you want to stay in the "realm of reasonable possibilty", then several of the Allied units would have to removed. The mirage tank being first out of their arsenal. Chrono technology(miners, chronosphere, legionnaire) would also have to go. That's 4 units all commonly used. Besides, if we leave the game as is, then the Allies could come up with counters especially with them having tanks that could camouflage. I mean wtf? A tree tank?!:wtf:

You completely missed my point about "staying in the realm of reasonable possibility," not to mention that we were talking only about the material the tanks were made of, not the other technologies they used. Either way, my point was that making tanks out of plastic was a simply ridiculous idea. What's next, rubber?

Tanks are already made of aluminum alloys, which to my knowledge aren't very magnetic at all. This is not to mention that it would require an immense amount of magnetic energy to completely lift a tank, which weighs many tons, into the air, not to mention doing this all at a very long range. This would require more energy than what one single tank could produce.

So in other words, the magnetron's weapon system is logistically flawed to begin with; it really shoudln't work at all, it's so far removed from even the more imaginative science fiction.

[truefeel]

You completely missed my point about "staying in the realm of reasonable possibility," not to mention that we were talking only about the material the tanks were made of, not the other technologies they used. Either way, my point was that making tanks out of plastic was a simply ridiculous idea. What's next, rubber?

No, no, m8. Grizzly tanks are really called plastic tanks, plastic only pointing at how weak they are, not really with what material they are composed.
The joke of gettingwap is gettingoutofhand

[apple23]

I realised it was a joke, but he continued on as if it wasn't, so I assume that he wasn't joking. He may have used that joke as a reference, but perhaps he was serious? He hasn't said himself that he was joking...

[GettinGwap]

I realised it was a joke, but he continued on as if it wasn't, so I assume that he wasn't joking. He may have used that joke as a reference, but perhaps he was serious? He hasn't said himself that he was joking...

I wasn't saying that the Allies should make plastic tanks per se, but that was what they did on X-Men. The point was to make a tank out of materials that the mags won't be effective on. And if what you say is true about what tanks are made of, then yeah the concept of the mag is flawed. And, yes, it was a joke. I thought since truefeel caught on I wouldn't have to explain myself.