Desolators for dummies.

[sephirothrr]

As I'm reading all of these threads, I realized that people often reference the power and might of desolators and all that they can do. However, to a noob like myself, those words have no meaning.

Can someone please explain how exactly to use desolators?

[Daishi]

1) Put 'em in a flak track in groups of 3-5. Drive the desotrack into a swarm of enemy light vehicles. (gatts/magnetrons, mirages, prisms, IFVs, even infantry swarms if he tries that) Whe the track gets destroyed, immediately select the desolators and hit D for deploy. This is the main use for Desolators and is the only existing Soviet counter for Mirage tanks.

2) Prevent Yuri from mining an area by killing his slaves with the radiation.

3) use them as a wall between your tanks and his tanks to absorb enemy shots. In Yuri's Revenge, it might be a better idea to get Tesla troopers, but these guys are great anti-fodder and still can't get crushed.

[sephirothrr]

Ok, but if they mix in GGI BF's, what then?
The desolators die far too quickly.

[Daishi]

So you want to kill what you can before the desos get killed. Left with nothing but their heaviest units, they'll have to deal with your tank squad.

[truefeel]

A GGI BF is not dangerous at all for desos. A seal inside it though makes it dangerous. In that case, you got to use your flak track very carefully, and move it to a spot close enough to the mirages but outside range of the the BF.

Desolators are very powerfull units, b/c of their deploy weapon. That weapon is strong enough to take out loads of infantry fodder and also to kill lighter armoured units, like the mirage tank. It does not matter if the desolator dies or not, as long as you can deploy them near infantry/light armoured vehicles (and alot of those plz), you did the damage.

[thetechieotaku]

As I'm reading all of these threads, I realized that people often reference the power and might of desolators and all that they can do. However, to a noob like myself, those words have no meaning.

Can someone please explain how exactly to use desolators?
Desolators are actually easy to kill with Rocketeers. However I think that you need to place them in every corner in your base (4) together with 7 tesla troopers. To kill desolators you might want to use snipers (if you are Britain), or use your prism tank (if you are not Britain BUT allied). If you are soviet, try your war miners. Ore Miners are immune from radiation sites/weapons.

[Rowmen]

Drones Ftw?

[apple23]

bumping 3 month old threads ftw?

please, read the freaking timestamp of the last post...

And yeah, drones are best if you are soviets, but snipers, rockies, harriers, prism tanks, and BFs all work if you are allied.

[Statalyzer]

Desolators are actually easy to kill with Rocketeers.

Not when hidden inside suicide flak traks they aren't.

[apple23]

true, but the allies still have many counters to desolators, that's indisputable.

At the very least, they have more good counters to them than the soviets do...

[Statalyzer]

Perhaps. Terror drones are a pretty good counter though. Plus, the Soviet tanks being more heavily-armored is sort of a counter in and of itself.

[CivBase]

I never was a big sov fan... they're good for rushing, but not much more. Desalators are pretty powerful, but because I'm usualy GB or Korea, I just put a sniper in an IFV or get a few eagles and desalators aren't much of a problem. Of all the sov countries though, Iraq is probably the best cuz tela tanks and demo trucks aren't all that useful compared to the rest of the sov arsinal.

[apple23]

Gotta love cuban "Osama Flaks", but Iraq is probably the most useful with its desolators, put 5 or 10 in flak tracks and you have a perfect counter to mirage tanks if there isn't any lag.. One of the only in existence in the soviet arsenal.

[Daishi]

One of the only in existence? The only in existence.

Cuba is a decent choice on the other hand because they can take out targets like war factories and battle labs to prevent mirage tanks and BFs from ever showing up. This isn't guaranteed, but it's enough to strengthen Cuba a lot.

[apple23]

You'd be surprised how much terrorist flaks own mirages or any other camping unit. Not as much of the desolator, of course, but it is still notable. Also worth mentioning is that the terrorist is strong against everything (If he can get up close) and cheap to produce.

[GettinGwap]

im not that good but it seems to me that the allies are better than the soviets. Its unfair because i like the soviets better. i find that they can survive off of ifvs and a few grizzlies in the beginning. then they tech up fast, and soon have enough mirages and bfs to beat me.

[thetechieotaku]

im not that good but it seems to me that the allies are better than the soviets. Its unfair because i like the soviets better. i find that they can survive off of ifvs and a few grizzlies in the beginning. then they tech up fast, and soon have enough mirages and bfs to beat me.

Well on my own strategy, I can tech up the soviets as fast as five mins. I remember that I have trouble playing as the allies...

[Statalyzer]

im not that good but it seems to me that the allies are better than the soviets. Its unfair because i like the soviets better. i find that they can survive off of ifvs and a few grizzlies in the beginning. then they tech up fast, and soon have enough mirages and bfs to beat me.

That should be tough for the Allies because of the tank build time modifiers in YR. You can build Rhinos as fast as they can build Grizzlies.

[thetechieotaku]

im not that good but it seems to me that the allies are better than the soviets. Its unfair because i like the soviets better. i find that they can survive off of ifvs and a few grizzlies in the beginning. then they tech up fast, and soon have enough mirages and bfs to beat me. Are you playing YR with CannisRules? Building Rhinos on CannisRules is as fast as building Grizzlies...

[Zardac the Great]

Its unfair because i like the soviets better.


Hrmm...

A rather arbitrary definition of what is unfair, don't you think?

[truefeel]

im not that good but it seems to me that the allies are better than the soviets. Its unfair because i like the soviets better. i find that they can survive off of ifvs and a few grizzlies in the beginning. then they tech up fast, and soon have enough mirages and bfs to beat me.


Depends on which side you take. Iraq>all allied sides. Cuba is near equal, but I think allieds are slightly better. rest of soviets<all allied sides.

Also depends from map to map. Most maps are in the advantage of soviets, but the larger ones or for the allieds, or the ones you can camp on (like isle of war or hidden valley).

A reminder though, if a human player techs up as allieds fast, he will have less units and will be very vulnerable to attacks until he has enough mirages and BFs, which will take some time to do, so if he techs up fast, you concentrate on economy and unit production and harras him all the time.

[thetechieotaku]

Depends on which side you take. Iraq>all allied sides. Cuba is near equal, but I think allieds are slightly better. rest of soviets<all allied sides.

Also depends from map to map. Most maps are in the advantage of soviets, but the larger ones or for the allieds, or the ones you can camp on (like isle of war or hidden valley).

A reminder though, if a human player techs up as allieds fast, he will have less units and will be very vulnerable to attacks until he has enough mirages and BFs, which will take some time to do, so if he techs up fast, you concentrate on economy and unit production and harras him all the time.
I agree. However, it still depends on the human player himself. If his strategy iapplies to the Soviets, then the Soviets would be better than the Allies. If the player's strategy is good for the Allies then the Allies would
be better than the Soviets.

[truefeel]

That strategie applies to none side. Decent players start early with making tanks, allieds or soviets. If you really tech up that fast, you will barely have units to defend. RA2 is not really a "make counterunits" game. The basic is simple: tanks. Armour pounding tanks. Alot of them. Unlike KW, where you can just make rocket infantry to counter tanks, it's not so easy to come up with a different type of unit to counter tanks, other then tanks. There are exceptions, but these are normally backcountered on such an easy way you don't have to go off from making mass tanks. These exceptions are also more used to annoy your oppponent or to slow his production of tanks, then really the intention to kill the whole army of tanks.

All strategies, BOs,... are known. Unlike, for example, Kanes Wrath, the amount of strategies are narrowed to only a few, the best ones. Of course, for a beginning player it's discovering which strategies are the best. This strategie, building up fast for tier 3 units, is not a really good strategy, b/c the general soviet strategy -mass rhino tanks- pretty much can handle that perfectly.

In the suptop layer of players, one map fits soviets, an other one allieds, b/c of respective terrain advantage. Those players are very good players and known pretty much about the game, so they can't defeat eachother based on knowledge. That leaves 2 perspectives: which side and which map.

I didn't counted the top players. That's kinda a group apart. They do use other strategies, like indeed teching up very fast. The difference is that they have the microing and economy control for it. They would be some tanks behind, which they make up with outstanding micro. Then you indeed have the advantage. That's unfortunaly not recommended to do, as they have years of experience. It's saver to rely and those rusted strategies.

[GettinGwap]

perhaps i need a better BO or something because i dont know how to mass rhinos in like 4 or 5 minutes. if i know im going against an allied player and he is teching fast, i just try to do the same to get seige choppers. it just seems like rhinos get owned by bf. i know the strategy for killing bfs with rhinos, but they may kill 3-4 tanks before i can kill it. Sometimes i dont kill it at all if the allied player knows what hes doing. it seems i have a harder time against allied and yuri players than soviet ones.

[truefeel]

a simple BO for massing rhinoes fast: power->barracks->refinery->war factory (one miner and then non-stop tanks)-> refinery (sell)-> refinery-> war factory-> radar -> refinery(sell)->refinery->war factory.

From then, do as you like. Either teching up for iron curtain/industrial plant or more refineries and another war factory. Either way, when you have 3-4 tanks (and that will be fast), start to harras him. Keep your tanks alive, but at the same time: keep him inside his base and pick off important things like an afcc or better yet, miners. If he has a battle lab, use a small group and sneak it around the edge of the map inside his base to destroy it, while you keep him busy with your main force.

Never try to fight allieds with T3 soviet units. As soviets, keep your head cool and mass tanks. Don't worry to loose tanks to a BF, if you can get away with only 4 tanks lost, then that's a good thing.

Agreed though, a good allied player knows what he does and you gotta have to predict what his moves are going to be. Scouting the map is good start. If he's america and he comes with tanks to your base, expect a paradrop behind your base and possible some rocketeers. If he's korea, keep a flak cannon ready and when he comes with his eagle, deploy the flak cannon right in front of it.

[GettinGwap]

thanx 4 da BO it works fine

[apple23]

One of the best tips is really to build as fast as you can, and harass him alot. keep the pressure on as much as possible, as this will slow him down and you will eventually crack him. If you leave him unchecked, and you both sit there and mass rhinoes, the game quickly turns into a boring spamfest.

[Daishi]

If you leave him unchecked, and you both sit there and mass rhinoes, the game quickly turns into a boring spamfest.

Well, you've got the spamfest part right... dunno about boring. :shifty:

especially when there's siege choppers and you're on sedona o_o

[Statalyzer]

Sedona would be a great map if it were balanced, but 123 has an advantage over 456.

perhaps i need a better BO or something because i dont know how to mass rhinos in like 4 or 5 minutes. if i know im going against an allied player and he is teching fast, i just try to do the same to get seige choppers. [quote]

The problem with seige choppers is that you aren't likely to have enough of them, and their deploy time means they can get outflanked by BFs, so they have to sit around defensively most of the time. Getting Rhinos as fast as possible, you can be offensive. Even if you can kill just one miner the Allied player is likely to be in trouble when teching up.

As Soviets you might also consider trying to drone an Allied player's first tank.

[quote]it just seems like rhinos get owned by bf.

Because they do.

i know the strategy for killing bfs with rhinos, but they may kill 3-4 tanks before i can kill it.

Well, 4 rhinos = $3600. 1 BF + 5 GGIs = $4000.

[GettinGwap]

thanx 4 the tips guys. i played 2 qm since then, and won both. I then looked at the player's ranks, and they werent great, but I won those games pretty fast and one of them was a map advantageous to allies(and my opponent was allies). Ill continue to improve my game against allies. But as soviets how do u beat yuri?

[apple23]

You don't. Sell your base and call it "GG"

Yuri is so ridiculously overpowered in the hands of a decent yuri player it is hardly worth trying. ESPECIALLY against soviets.

[CADTC]

Conscripts. Conscripts. Conscripts. Conscripts. and more Conscripts. Give at least 5 Tesla Troopers for each conscript. Use a lot of Rhinos agaist Yuri's magnetrons and masterminds. around 15 Rhinos. For each battle with Masterminds and/or magnetrons, reinforce it with 6 more Rhinos

[truefeel]

no, magnetrons practically own rhinoes. conscripts are dead against a few gatt tanks. The only 2 things that can save you a bit are the iron curtain and desolators. Against yuri as soviet (and plz take only Iraq), build from your war factory 2 to 3 war mniers while teching up FAST. This is indeed controversal with what I said before, but the advantage you have (and will have to push it to the limit) is that as long as yuri is not teched up, he can't do much against a group of desolators. So go for a fast radar, make some desolators, deploy them next to his miners to kill his economy and next to his tanks to force him back into his base. While you do that, tech up further and make an Iron curtain fast. Make 9 drones and alot of flak tracks and build alot of sentries so that he can't automag. When the IC is ready, use it on the drones. If he's close to your base (=far from his base, where he has a grinder to grind the droned vehicles), drone his weaker armoured vehicles first. If he's close to his base, drone the more expensive vehicles like a mastermind and the magnetrons. Now slowly start to make a few tanks, but also continue to make another 9 drones, as you will have to repeat this trick a few times probably. If he has no masterminds and magnetrons, go with your tanks for his miners or for his dominater he'll probably have.

If the map has tech buildings, try to eat all of his engineers. brutes do poor at protecting engineers.

[Statalyzer]

Conscripts. Conscripts. Conscripts. Conscripts. and more Conscripts. Give at least 5 Tesla Troopers for each conscript.

Gatts or Virus will own that, plus you won't be able to leave you base without getting mauled by lashers b/c infantry aren't mobile enough. Also, if Supers are on, Yuri thanks you for your support of free brutes.

Against yuri as soviet (and plz take only Iraq), build from your war factory 2 to 3 war mniers while teching up FAST.

Yeah, never ever be Cuba or Libya against Yuri. But, although I see the advantage of teching up and going 2/3 miners from war, that has the potential to really screw you over right away if your opponent uses the quick Gatt tactic. Of course, losing spectacularly to 1 unit in 5 minutes is no worse than losing slowly to mag juggling over 20 minutes, so maybe that risk is worth it to at least give yourself a chance.

One thing I saw work once (but was tough to pull off and could also fail catastrophically) was a guy built like 20 drones and then used the iron curtain on 9 rhinos. I thought this crazy until the rhinos all started targeting only Gatt Tanks, and right then sent all his drones in and the poor Lashers, Mags, and Masterminds didn't stand a chance.

[truefeel]

Yeh forgot the fast gatt tank. I used to counter that with making 1 rhino tank before the 2-3 miners.

[apple23]

What if the yuri player masses a small army of lashers/brutes while you are busy teching up? All you'll have is a rhino or two and maybe a desolator if you're fast enough. If he scouts you out, you're screwed

[truefeel]

You have radar kinda fast. 2-3 desolators can take out lasher tanks. Besides, you would see it coming if you scouted properly and then you could cancel your miners for a few drones (if he has no gatt tank).

[apple23]

true... but then all the while he still has the superior economy to tech up with, and what if he tried to bluff the lasher rush to get your attention? Then you cancelled your miners and started pumping out tanks while he is sitting there laughing and watching his dominator finish.

I guess scouting goes both ways, though. That could really really change the outcome of the battle

[truefeel]

He would need to go far with bluffing, and the bluffing will cost him money too. He would for instance have to go straight for tanks when his wf is up and not make a miner first, that'll cost him time to tech up. If he does makes a miner first (or first a gatt tank and then a miner) and then the lashers, I have time enough to make a few desos. I would indeed advice though to make one single rhino before making those 3 miners. That'll be probably enough to get him off the idea of rushing.

[Statalyzer]

It depends on the map, too. If there's enough space, as Yuri facing the quick tech and deso defense, I'd try and split my lashers and draw the desolators away with one group and go after either the wf, refinery, or miners with the other group.

[truefeel]

I can split my desos too. On the smallest maps though, a lasher rush could work, but a person on xwis said there to make 10 consripts and take out the power with it, then throw a few rhinoes over it. Dunno if that works, you gotta check it out yourself.

[apple23]

That probably wouldn't work, because depending on the map size, he may already have a wf and a gatt by the time your 10 conscripts get there. They are among the slowest units in the game, you know. Besides that, he could probably get his wf and gatt up before you could finish off his power plant, as conscripts do very little damage to buildings.


And i did just remember something... Yuri has a really great counter to desos... the virus. Just bring one of those in each group of lashers, and unless you have a significant force of rhinoes you're screwed.

[truefeel]

You would certainly have the 10 conscripts before his miner is ready, b/c a miner is 1750 and 10 conscripts are 1000. Maybe also dog for scouting= 1200 all together. On a map like blood fued I think it's doable. Target the power, so that he produces very slowly. 10 consripts kill a powerplant fast. You would be suprised.

Virusses need 2 shots to kill a desolator. You can get near enough to deploy and get the virus in the radiation. Maybe good for countering a single desolator, but not 2 or 3.

[Statalyzer]

I can split my desos too.

Not nearly as fast as Lashers can split. And then if the desos are split up, and can recombine my Lashers into one group and then just rush at the desos, take some damage, and kill them. Not saying your strategy is bad, just pointing out how tough it is to play Yuri, even good strategies are in trouble often.

On the smallest maps though, a lasher rush could work, but a person on xwis said there to make 10 consripts and take out the power with it,

Even if Yuri has no scouting brutes left, how hard is it to build a few initiates and take care of that problem?

[truefeel]

You would atleast need 5, same amount of money as me. So maybe worth a shot. A yuri player might build instead a gattling cannon, and then you could try to take the power down. Depends on what he does, but IMO the tactic is not any worse then other soviet tactics against yuri, especially b/c all those tactics have a high percentage to fail.

Not nearly as fast as Lashers can split. And then if the desos are split up, and can recombine my Lashers into one group and then just rush at the desos, take some damage, and kill them. Not saying your strategy is bad, just pointing out how tough it is to play Yuri, even good strategies are in trouble often.

"Some" damage is very lightly said. They would all loose half their health, with me still having one other desolator. Desos don't split as fast as lashers, no, but if you see it coming you should have the time to react on it. I also assume you made atleast 6 lashers, that does slow you down on teching. If you really make that alot of lashers, I would make a few drones. Gattling tanks can't counter drones , b/c of radiation. And that is IF your situation occurs. Until now, I've never seen a yuri player do a lasher tank rush. All those yuri players (even the good ones) tech fast and don't try to rush you out, probably b/c it'll leave them out of money for teching up and rhinoes are better anywayz then lashers.

[GettinGwap]

the only strat i know is pick britain or iraq and pick on his miners, but the miner truck itself can kill a deso. u can only do this after making radar, so i assume by the time u make radar he has radar too and can prepare for your attack(bc it is psychic). by then, if he has wf, he can make mags. i just dont c how some1 can beat yuri with sov. later in the game u can put boris in flak and attack his miners if u catch him sleeping. but once the yuri player hears "unit lost" he will see what is going on. you may as well try to use truefeels' strat. you could try to get 5 or so rhinos and hide them to a place where u think he hasn't scouted. if he doesn't see them and sees your base is not many units, he may get aggressive. once he attacks, move those rhinos to his base and take out some important buildings. with luck, that may do something. not guaranteed, but against yuri, nothing is

[truefeel]

Well, yuri radar units are not really effective against desolators. psychic tower are the only threat, but then you need to get close to his base. Yuri clones on the other hand get killed in the deploy radiation.

Desolators do have weaknesses and can get killed by the options yuri has on radar level, so it's not a watertight strategy. But yuri on the other hand needs to sacrifice units for it.

[apple23]

viruses would still do the trick, unless there are alot of desos...

[truefeel]

I don't think 1 virus can kill 3 to 5 desos. Making 3 to 5 viruses would decrease the speed of teching up (in the assumption tanks are made at the same time). Remember: desos do selfheal and have alot of strength.

[thetechieotaku]

3-5 desos can kill almost any radar-level unit coming towards them. But they have to be deployed.

[truefeel]

that's a matter of pressing a button. It only becomes a problem when there's alot of lag, nowadays a very rare case.

IMO, the best anti desotactic for yuri on radar level I've seen yet is sacrificing one gatt tank to kill 2 desos.

[GettinGwap]

dunno if this works against the best players but it worked for me before. here it is: well it was country swing 1st off. I got 4 or 5 rhinos and attacked 1 of his miners and killed it. it was before he had any psychic units so he couldnt mind control my tanks. i killed the miner and saw the other one and killed it. by then i had like 4 more tanks ready. he then killed 2 of my original tanks but i brought 4 more and finished him off.

[truefeel]

Well, if he gets magnetron fast, this will be difficult to pull off.

[Statalyzer]

dunno if this works against the best players but it worked for me before. here it is: well it was country swing 1st off. I got 4 or 5 rhinos and attacked 1 of his miners and killed it. it was before he had any psychic units so he couldnt mind control my tanks. i killed the miner and saw the other one and killed it. by then i had like 4 more tanks ready. he then killed 2 of my original tanks but i brought 4 more and finished him off.

Did not have any tanks? Yuri's miners have insane armor, so he should have been able to hold you off unless he ran out of cash somehow or was teching up too fast.

but the miner truck itself can kill a deso.

That'd be an interesting strategy - take a Slave Miner along with the Lashers to fend off the desos. Risky though since you'd better have a helluva economy.

[GettinGwap]

[quote=Statalyzer;387386]Did not have any tanks? Yuri's miners have insane armor, so he should have been able to hold you off unless he ran out of cash somehow or was teching up too fast.

he had maybe 2 i think but 2 lashers couldnt handle 4 or 5 rhinos. he kept his infantry to guard his other miner. he has a brute i think and maybe 3 initiates. but i outmanuevered them and got some damage in on the miner before they caught up. The initiates were no problem but they distracted me long enough for the brute to get some damage in. i killed them all and got his other miner then came with the rest of my tanks