MARV vs Redeemer vs Eradicator

[Chev]

First of all i created this discussion, but i havn't had the chance to play Scrin in KW yet, just a few LAN games with GDI and NOD.
Perhaps people could share there experiances!


Anyone else experiancing mainfunctioning epic units? The MARV and the redeember (havn't tried the Eradicator yet) seem to have a verry slow responds time somehow.
What i noticed is that epic units are VERRY vurnerable to air attacks in the open (even when you equipt them with Missle troopers).

What combinations do you usually use and why?

[Miles]

Yeah, since I almost always play with Zocom in Skirmish I only know about the MARV bugs. Like for example that you make him attack something out of range and sometimes instead of moving within range and shoot the target up, he just doesn't move.

Other than that, the combination I mostly use in skirmish (and late game too to attack and erase a base) is the MARV-Hammerhead-Mammoth combination. I also have a bunch of Firehawks standing by in my base to shoot Carriers or Devastators out of the sky if they start pummeling my MARV. MARV attracts all the fire and causes some havoc, the Mammoth Tanks shoot the place up while MARV attracts the damage and the Hammerheads provide cover for in case a mass of small pesky units swarm the MARV.
And to counter enemy Eradicators, I mostly swarm him with Orca's and Hammerheads before it gets too close to my base and if that's not enough I use my beloved MARV to eliminate the rest of his health.

This is probably worthless against humans, but it sure as hell is effective against AI's.

[Chev]

Yeah, since I almost always play with Zocom in Skirmish I only know about the MARV bugs. Like for example that you make him attack something out of range and sometimes instead of moving within range and shoot the target up, he just doesn't move.

Other than that, the combination I mostly use in skirmish (and late game too to attack and erase a base) is the MARV-Hammerhead-Mammoth combination. I also have a bunch of Firehawks standing by in my base to shoot Carriers or Devastators out of the sky if they start pummeling my MARV. MARV attracts all the fire and causes some havoc, the Mammoth Tanks shoot the place up while MARV attracts the damage and the Hammerheads provide cover for in case a mass of small pesky units swarm the MARV.
And to counter enemy Eradicators, I mostly swarm him with Orca's and Hammerheads before it gets too close to my base and if that's not enough I use my beloved MARV to eliminate the rest of his health.

This is probably worthless against humans, but it sure as hell is effective against AI's.

Seems like a nice setup dude, must do wonders, but in Multiplayer online however this would only work when an enemy doesn't see you comming i gues :evil:. Also it takes up a long time to build such a strikeforce.

What units you use inside the MARV?

[Miles]

Against AI's it's very effective, but as you say yourself, I think that against humans it's worthless unless you play against someone who never attacks you and lets you build up your strike force uninterupted (which would be foolish of him)
And in my MARV I always hesitate... I always put at least one sniper team in it, but for the rest I hesitate between engineers, missile squads or zone raiders. An engineer is good if you don't want to bring your MARV back to base for repair every time it's damaged. With an engineer you can just put it in a safe corner for a while and let is autoheal. Zone raiders are good to deal even more quick damage to units that surround your MARV and missile squads are to protect the MARV against aircraft. Problem is that one missile squad takes so looooong to kill even a stupid little stormrider that you need more than one

Mostly I end up putting two missile squads, one sniper and one engineer in the MARV and escort is with 6 Hammerheads of which 4 are filled with zone raiders and two with missile squads also against enemy aircraft.
Yeah, I'm that calculating :)

[ein1017]

That combo miles is what i usually go for too. the only time I really messed around with it was in golbal Domination but it was a steal talens setup so i had no snipers. My combo there was 3 missles and 1 engineer. For the hammerheads, in GD I had 4 snipers and 4 zone troopers (Zocom)

[hmily444]

I hate to use redeemer and alse hate my enemy to use it~! Its rage generator is really something very XXX...:(

I like MARV but I dislike GDI's defense towers(powerless, useless), yes the MARV could attach 4 troopers in it, I think this will depend on which kind of tactics you use in a battle and what enemy you are facing, I can still remember that I drove all my mammoth tanks(15+) and MARV with four zone troopers to crash a VERY heavy defended Nod Base(10+ obelisk of lights!!), I lost my beloved MARV but I managed to crash it all, I would like to call this a "success" :)

[Chev]

I hate to use redeemer and alse hate my enemy to use it~! Its rage generator is really something very XXX...:(

I like MARV but I dislike GDI's defense towers(powerless, useless), yes the MARV could attach 4 troopers in it, I think this will depend on which kind of tactics you use in a battle and what enemy you are facing, I can still remember that I drove all my mammoth tanks(15+) and MARV with four zone troopers to crash a VERY heavy defended Nod Base(10+ obelisk of lights!!), I lost my beloved MARV but I managed to crash it all, I would like to call this a "success" :)

Intresting, when i defend my base against large invading forces i always keep a large number of turrets in front of my obelisk so when A+attack clicking forces will always shoot at the automaticly regenerating turrets :evil:

Also:

Support the obelisks with 5 beam cannons (switch obelisk when the obelisk dies) so they shoot a mammoth in 2 shots
Pack a dozen of Missle squads next to the obelisk
Save your support powers and some cash (minefields, vaporbomb)
Have 4 or more vertigo's bombers ready (and hotkey them)Trouble online is, if it's a better player then you are, they usualy trash your airfield(s) and base defence/power/techcenter before they attack :cool:so you miss out on a big battle and lose with nothing much to say about it :nuts:.

I't impossible to protect your base all over from all sorts of enemy's & tactics.
Luckely NOD now has some large range artillery (specter) to counter Juggernaught barrages and a decent AA vehicle it's alot better to turtle your way to victory ;) (like GDI/basebuilding) does.

[Derek]

Better idea: Attack the enemy.

[Zardac the Great]

I have recently discovered the wonders of this strategy. :D

I'm not near good enough to play online, and I barely got vanilla C&C3 to work again, so I'm playing Medium skirmishes.

I used to try to tech up and build a good force and wipe my enemy off the map with one glorious attack, but I have found I survive more often when I keep pressure on the enemy. Mammoths can no longer survive against Avatars.

[Cylon Crusader]

I dont have KW yet, but I do play it over at a friend's house almost every other day. I personally use this:

GDI:

MARV with 4 engineers, supported with around 10-ish mammoth tanks and about 15 APCs with missile squads in them.

Nod:

Redeemer with 2 saboteurs as well as 2 missile squads. Supported by a about 10 missile squads inside of 5 APCs, I just deploy the APCs when I need to, they provide stationary defense, but it's defense none the less.I also like to use around 7-13 stealth tanks, they have some really good AA going on.

Scrin:

Eradicator with 2 assimilators and 2 shock troopers, of course, some extra squads of shock troopers (4-7) and some vehicles such as shard walkers or gun walkers (10-15).

I find that these combos work the best along with any small to medium attack force, I would add some more defensive options on larger maps though.

[hmily444]

to chev:
sorry there's one thing i forgot to say, i didn't play online, that short memory i spoke of is against a brutal nod.:)

my opinion on epic units is quite simple: they are large, but they are common. so don't pay much attention to it on a real battle. :D

[Chev]

to chev:
sorry there's one thing i forgot to say, i didn't play online, that short memory i spoke of is against a brutal nod.:)

my opinion on epic units is quite simple: they are large, but they are common. so don't pay much attention to it on a real battle. :D

True enough, IMHO they should'nt be ignored unless, but unless you have the firepower to shoot them in a single blow, or if they a a too big threat to an imporant structure or stratigic point on the map you'd better aim on what you can distroy.

Playing the campain on the hardest difficulty isn't easy too, you get bashed on within a few minutes with no real option to tech up quick and are stuck turteling for about 20 minutes (love that), but somehow the comp AI is a pritty good base defence killer!

I think it's best compared with the real deal online for the first 15 min, after that things get repetative, but ther's still alot of skill involved getting a forward base out :color3:

OMHO the Redeemer in the campain isn't much of use.

[Miles]

As soon as I get to know where the AI is setting up a secondary base naer a tiberium field, I start harassing the hell out of it to delay his teching up. If you let him harvest all the tiberium and thus get alot of cash, he gets stronger and stronger and attacks you with hordes of Carriers, Devastators, Tripods and the Eradicator. Yesterday I did the mistake not to harass him and at some points I had 3 Tripods, an Eradicator and 2 Devastators attacking me. I can tell you my base defenses were worthless against that. I was lucky I had an Ion Cannon ready to blast that crap away and some Orcas to finish the job. I always try to have at least 2 bases (one main and one "harvesting" one) and I try to defend and harass the AI secondary base as long as I can untill I have a considerable amount of Orcas, Hammerheads and of course, my beloved MARV. But again, I think this would not work against humans.

[MercZ]

I haven't had a chance to try out the Eradicator quite yet. Any cool stories with that?

[hmily444]

if you want some cool story, yes, there is! when an Er(Eradicator) comes close enough to an enemy or structures, and you destroy that with your troops, it becomes money! You can try it out by yourself, when you build an Er you may see a big circle around it, any enemy units in this circle killed by you may transform into money!!

But I never get a chance to test whether the enemy units could be changed into money when killed by my ally~:)

[Side2]

The Eradicator is somewhat glitchy also; sometimes it slides around, and coud fire plasma disks from the side of its head even without turning! Of course, that's a small glitch. It (seems) to walks faster than a MARV or a Redeemer, but the only downside is inaccuracy with a scattering of disks. It can equip up to 3 (I think) units; i like Mastermind+ravager+shocktrooper. Shard launcher helps kill off annoying rocket troopers, disk launcher helps kill air units, and the mastermind helps teleportation, which is always good.
There is a one on one un-upgraded battle between the three epic unitson Youtube, comparing the effectiveness of the MARV to the Redeemer, the MARV to the Eradicator, and the Redeemer to the Eradicator.

[kensaundm31]

I think someone said using 5 beam cannons with obelisk. after 4 beam cannons there is no effect, the maximum is 4. They increse range and re-fire speed, the do not add firepower.

I only ever use 2xblack hand for redeemer. 2 rockets are useless against most air units.

i happen to think the eradicator is overpowered. because when used with support powers it can become impossible to kill. And the speed with which the corrupter can heal it is a bit over the top.

[Frost Phantom]

most people dont know how to use epic units properly so unless playign against someone realy good, u dont rly have to worry about it. however, i personally like the eradicator best though, ravager + 2 shock troopers (no mastermind since i usualy play reaper 17) and follow it with 2 or 3 corrupters constantly healing it (if any of the corrupters get damaged have the others heal it) and send this out with heaps of gun walkers and tripods. this is because if i have an eradicator, it means that me and my enemy havent been able to wipe one another out early on so we're mostly just battling with brute force by then, thus money isnt an issue.

but the most effectvie anti epic strategy = 2 or 3 raider buggies + emp or a few awakened with emp attacks, even epic units are usualy once they've been emped, just keep emping it as u attack it. most people use vehicles to support their epics anyways so emp can take those out too. a group of stealthed avatars should kill all those emped units fast enough to make the opponent cry.

[DarkKnightSM]

Hmm, I think you guys are forgetting the harvesting powers of the MARV. You can clear a whole tib feild in less than a minute. I personally like the marv with 2 zone troopers, 2 rocket squad and 1 enginer. with this combination I can take on ANY amount of tanks. And alittle air. I think the eradicator is also good with large hordes. However i dont think there is any substitute for mammoths tanks. Idk whats with the nod epic unit. I hate it. It only has 1 slow beam which doesnt do much damage. I havnt tried its special ability yet though.

[Frost Phantom]

lol the redeemer is easily the ultimate wildcard epic unit. rage generator makes all of your enemies units attack themselves!! its my favourite one when im losing
how can you fit 2 zone troopers, 2 missiles and 1 engineer in a marv? it only has 4 spots :S besides, zone troopers in a marv is a waste imo, i'd much rather have anti infantry turrets cuz the marv itself is great against armor but crappy against infantry.
my usual strategy for marvs is to have 4 engineers in it and use it as a meat shield to protect the rest of my units. find it best to send it out with large numbers of missile troopers + riflemen cuz i prefer to have a separate tank strike force hitting the enemy else where. that way the enemy has to decide to focus their main strike force against either the tanks or the marv+infantry. if they choose to split their force then i win =]
but eradicator remains my favourite because it can teleport and it gives you money when any enemy unit dies within its range =]

[truefeel]

Eh no? The redeemer rage generator only works for 2 seconds, by long not enough to do any serious damage.

And zone troopers do massive damage in a marv, so they are a good choice for the otherwise slowly firing marv. I would probably leave out the rocket troops as they are easily replacable by other means.

[Frost Phantom]

the marv's biggest vulnerability is swarms of infantry, which is why i prefer either snipers or grenadiers. zone troopers are strong against inf too but snipers can thin out the enemy ranks long before they get in firing range, and grenadiers can take out packs and clear garrisoned buildings. but yes, the rocket troopers arent too useful (especially since i usually send my marv out with loads of rocket + riflemen supporting). but as i said in the previous post, marv is mainly a tanking unit, no matter how powerful it is, it will never match the dmg output of a large well managed army of mammoth + predator tanks. but it does do enough dmg to force the enemy into attacking it first.

as for the rage generator, when the enemy has 50+ tanks and a seemingly endless army of infantry, 2 seconds of random fire does a crap load of damage. besides, it screws with the opp's microing.

[Derek]

Eh no? The redeemer rage generator only works for 2 seconds, by long not enough to do any serious damage.
It used to be 15 or 30 seconds or something (I forget exactly which) and it was crazy OP. It was just enough time for an army of mammoth tanks to completely destroy each other.

At 2 seconds many units don't even have time to turn their guns around.

[Jester Kirby]

lol they seriously patched that to just 2 seconds? Well the redemmer is offcially out...:rolleyes:

The eradicator..I'v only really usedonce and I hated it. Unless I missed its special ability, it sucks. MARV is the best imo, especially if there's a big Tiberium field that hasn't been taken yet and you can get him to it.

If he is fully promoted and has an engineer and you back him up into a warfactor to triple drone repair him, he can push back just about any ground force. It's crazy.

Btw, how much money is lost compared to MARV vs traditional harvester? Anyone know?:looklive:

[truefeel]

as for the rage generator, when the enemy has 50+ tanks and a seemingly endless army of infantry, 2 seconds of random fire does a crap load of damage. besides, it screws with the opp's microing.

2 seconds is about 1 shot of each unit. That's really not a crapload of damage. Back when it was 15 seconds in 1.00, using the rage generator was a real army killer.

the marv's biggest vulnerability is swarms of infantry, which is why i prefer either snipers or grenadiers. zone troopers are strong against inf too but snipers can thin out the enemy ranks long before they get in firing range, and grenadiers can take out packs and clear garrisoned buildings. but yes, the rocket troopers arent too useful (especially since i usually send my marv out with loads of rocket + riflemen supporting). but as i said in the previous post, marv is mainly a tanking unit, no matter how powerful it is, it will never match the dmg output of a large well managed army of mammoth + predator tanks. but it does do enough dmg to force the enemy into attacking it first.Then put snipers into APCs? much better b/c their are so much faster. And nobody can win only with epic units. Epic units are merely tools to increase the output of your army massively.
Btw, Zone raiders are the best in Marvs, raping both infantry and vehicles.

[Derek]

The eradicator..I'v only really usedonce and I hated it. Unless I missed its special ability,
The main advantage is that you can teleport it away when its close to dead.

Btw, how much money is lost compared to MARV vs traditional harvester? Anyone know?:looklive:
It collects one third as much, if I recall.

[Frost Phantom]

only use marv to rape your enemy's tib fields anyways.
and as i said earlier depends on what you use your marv for. i use it purely to tank so 4 engineers give it the best survivability especially since you'd never send it out by itself anyways so you dont realy have to worry about anti air or anti infantry.

the eradicator also allows you to earn money for anything you kill in its range, and most importantly, like all other scrin units, you can back it up with corrupters. 3 corrupters can easily double its survivability.

ps i never said you could win with just epics. i have one use for them and that is to tank and draw enemy attention away from my main tank strike force. which is why i always fill them up with engineers. and follow them with support units.

[truefeel]

Epic units could be a decisive factor though. If it gets late game and armies are getting smaller (due all the tiberium runs out), epics could decide the game.

[Frost Phantom]

but 80% of games are finished long before then...

[truefeel]

That entirely depends on how good you and your opponent are.

[Frost Phantom]

yes, but the game has died to the stage where theres like only like 100 other aussie players, and i've played them enough to know all of their usual strategies, and they know mine... so as soon as the game starts, we take a guess at what the other player will be building and build to counter that until we get a scout in the opponent's base. and usually it only takes one or two encounters for each of us to know whos gonna win.
the 20% of games that do end up going for long are those times where we both guessed the opponent's strategies correctly so we get a stalemate till one person stuffs up.