Germany

[GettinGwap]

I know that everyone thinks Germany is one of the worst countries on the game, and i can see where you come up with that conclusion. But I have played with them a few times and seem to like them and i pick Germany on other war games. Basically, I would like to learn how to play with them, but I don't know how to play with the allied countries. Any tips on how to play with the Germany or the Allies in general without relying on rockies too much?

[sg500]

please read ra2/yr guide it will definately help you with everything.

[Statalyzer]

Germany is good, it's just tough to give up free units and free aircraft upgrades.

[apple23]

the best way to learn how to play a faction is through practical experience. Play a lot of games with them, adn you will eventually learn what strategies work for you.

[truefeel]

I know that everyone thinks Germany is one of the worst countries on the game, and i can see where you come up with that conclusion. But I have played with them a few times and seem to like them and i pick Germany on other war games. Basically, I would like to learn how to play with them, but I don't know how to play with the allied countries. Any tips on how to play with the Germany or the Allies in general without relying on rockies too much?


First, you have to make sure your opponent does not have any fodder (maybe a seal IFV?). Second, don't depend completely on tank destroyers, instead build only a few of them and use them with grizzly tanks

[Chubbychunks]

I'm glad to see you guys are still using this section of the forums. :)
I haven't played this game in many moons, but from what I do remember is that Tank Destroyers can't fire while moving, so that's an issue. However, I seem to recall that they are very effective against Prism tanks. I think there's about as many pros as there are cons to these, but the fact that you can't get free units like America, renders Germany pretty useless.

[Daishi]

If there's one thing the TD excels at, it's not countering tanks but at countering light vehicles throughout the game, especially vs allies. What I'd do is place them at chokepoints as a mobile defense and mobilize a seal IFV as backup.

Perhaps the TD would work well in tandem with mixed IFVs, blowing up the bigger uglier units while the IFVs would target structures, infantry, and hard-to-catch vehicles.

One desolator or magnetron and your whole force is ****ed, though.

[truefeel]

You could also try a small group of tank destroyers in conjunction with a big group of grizz tanks, aginst soviets. Attack with the grizz tanks in front and go around with the tank destroyers and stab with them in his force's back.
A nice tip is that if you use ctrl+shift with tank destroyers, they will pick the targets automatically (instead of manually targetting) while moving (they will stop though once they have a target). Generally, tank destroyers can survive desolators more then grizz tanks, but do remember that they are very weak against fodder and, really suprising, against terror drones, due that terror drones have a special armour type. Desos can be countered by air units (I think you still remember that one eh, gettingwap :p), other fodder types easily by some GIs, air, seal IFV,... . You got to improvise.

[Statalyzer]

Yeah I actually like Tank Destroyers vs desolators to a point because their armor can withstand the radiation more. Also, Mags don't screw over TDs any more than the screw over all tank units (which is still a lot). The nice thing about the TD is just one or two making it through can quickly wreck a load of magnetrons.

but from what I do remember is that Tank Destroyers can't fire while moving, so that's an issue. However, I seem to recall that they are very effective against Prism tanks.

Both are true. TDs annihilate Prisms and are surprisingly good against Mirages also. It depends on the map - I wouldn't like to be stuck with Germany on Heck, but on a Country Swing 2v2 they could be very useful. Also depends on individual skill - I used to be really, really good with Germany but now that my skills are rusty, paradrops would be a lot easier to master.

[truefeel]

Yeah I actually like Tank Destroyers vs desolators to a point because their armor can withstand the radiation more. Also, Mags don't screw over TDs any more than the screw over all tank units (which is still a lot). The nice thing about the TD is just one or two making it through can quickly wreck a load of magnetrons.

and the great thing is that yuri players ussually don't make fodder.

Both are true. TDs annihilate Prisms and are surprisingly good against Mirages also. It depends on the map - I wouldn't like to be stuck with Germany on Heck, but on a Country Swing 2v2 they could be very useful. Also depends on individual skill - I used to be really, really good with Germany but now that my skills are rusty, paradrops would be a lot easier to master.That depends. The ussual "drop some GIs behind someones base and destroy a few buildings" doesn't really work anymore. Players are paying more attention. Nowadays a paradrop is only succesfull when you distract your opponent with other things, and that requires a solid multi-tasking. However, the same can be said with tank destroyers in the form of tank control. So you gotta weight off: either you are better at multi-tasking and you choose for the paradrop or you excell more at tank control and you could go for tank destroyers.

Also: I just checked the rulesmd file and it appears tank destroyers DON'T have a buildtimemultiplier (so the time is 900 credits x 1.0=900; time expressed in credits), contrary to the grizzly tank (1.5x700= 1050) and the rhino tank (1.3x900=1170). So, in the assumption you have a good economy rolling, you can build tank destroyers faster then rhino tanks. That would make that later on when you have BFs with a seal inside you could savely use tank destroyers instead of mirages (which are very vulnerable to radiation, if a deso was able to deploy even if seal BF was near).

I really think that tank destroyers are really underestimated. Damn, you learn everyday something new of an old game.

[Statalyzer]

I didn't even think about the lack of BTMs for Tank Destroyers in YR. That's a nice advantage, although I could have sworn Grizzly was 1.4 and Rhino was 1.1

[GettinGwap]

thanx guys, i also didnt think of btm for td and using them in late game. since i mainly use iraq, i have a soviet mentality when it comes to playing. so i was thinking making tds with grizzlies and a seal ifv to attack miners while making more tanks to finish the enemy. but yea germany is underestimated. they are good as support units. i am tired of seeing america and britain. whats the big deal about america anyway? gis are too easy to kill.

[apple23]

About the BTMs, you have to consider that you will need a significantly stronger economy than he does, since you are spending credits much faster than he is by building TDs instead of grizzlies. If you pump out a TD faster than a rhino, you are spending 1000 credits faster than he can spend 900, and same with the grizzly. You spend 1000 credits faster than he spends 700.

I know this is weightedd out to some degree by their overwhelming strength, but in the early game you're probably going to have a hard time with it.
whats the big deal about america anyway? gis are too easy to kill.
Actually, when pitted against any main battle tank (which is usually the only unit on the field), GIs own, especially because they come in huge groups

the fact that a few paradrops worth of GIs could annihilate a base was simply laughable.

That is one of the things I changed in my mod, so american paradrops are now what they should be: a reinforcement/support power, not a direct offensive power.

[truefeel]

About the BTMs, you have to consider that you will need a significantly stronger economy than he does, since you are spending credits much faster than he is by building TDs instead of grizzlies. If you pump out a TD faster than a rhino, you are spending 1000 credits faster than he can spend 900, and same with the grizzly. You spend 1000 credits faster than he spends 700.Yes, I said that too in my previous post. However if you have the money, you mightbe able to outproduce a soviet player without having to build so many war factories. The TD costs 900 btw.

I didn't even think about the lack of BTMs for Tank Destroyers in YR. That's a nice advantage, although I could have sworn Grizzly was 1.4 and Rhino was 1.1That would give the almost perfect optimum so that both tanks are being produced equally fast. But apperently, grizzly tank still produce a bit faster, only a BIT though. Check the rulesmd file if you don't believe. You can grab an unmodified one at RADEN.

whats the big deal about america anyway? gis are too easy to kill.Not really. the pretty good against everything on the ground. Their main weakness are anti-infantry (desos/seals in general) and being run over, but get a nice paradrop behind the opponents base while he does not sees is always nice, especially on country swing with all the garrisonable buildings near his base.

[GettinGwap]

Not really. the pretty good against everything on the ground. Their main weakness are anti-infantry (desos/seals in general) and being run over, but get a nice paradrop behind the opponents base while he does not sees is always nice, especially on country swing with all the garrisonable buildings near his base.[/quote]

well i just use desos. i usually have to use dogs for 1 or 2 paradrops. once i get desos, i just deploy them at different spots of my base away from my wf though

[truefeel]

Yeh, but if a plane would kill the deso while the GIs are being dropped, then you suddenly don't have that protection anymore. It can also be that you didn't see it coming.
Deso are certainly a good counter against a paradrop, but do remember a smart allied players will try to take that thing away that protects your weak spots. For instance I build a rocketeer, you build a flak track. I use 2 planes to kill the flak track so that the rocketeer kills desolators. If you can always stay one step ahead of the allied player, then you don't need anything to fear of. Let's go back to my example: if you see that he makes planes, keep a flak cannon ready and deploy right in front of it when it hangs around your base, then you suprised him and he will make mistakes. It's just that you need to watch your back, front, sides,... against a good allied player, else he will get you trapped.

Btw, we should try out the tank destroyer :p. you got time today ?

[GettinGwap]

i can play now?

[truefeel]

if u can, yeh

[truefeel]

GG last night. Tank Destroyers are not really reliable in AvA, b/c allieds do have the proper counters against it. I think Tank Destroyers are better against soviets.

[GettinGwap]

GG last night. Tank Destroyers are not really reliable in AvA, b/c allieds do have the proper counters against it. I think Tank Destroyers are better against soviets.

i agree because tank destroyers r too slow to keep up with ifvs and grizzlies

[truefeel]

It's more mirages I think.

Do you have msn ? we weren't talked out last night :). Mine is urlings_55@hotmail.com.

[Statalyzer]

TDs aren't bad in Allied vs Allied either, because the Allied high tech units are so lightly-armored.

That would give the almost perfect optimum so that both tanks are being produced equally fast. But apperently, grizzly tank still produce a bit faster, only a BIT though.

1.4 and 1.1 would make the grizz produce slightly faster. 700*1.4 = 980. 900*1.1 = 990. But that isn't the perfect optimum. The perfect optimum is 7 rhinos takes the same amount of time as 9 grizzlies, the way it works in RA2.

About the BTMs, you have to consider that you will need a significantly stronger economy than he does, since you are spending credits much faster than he is by building TDs instead of grizzlies.

You only need a stronger economy than him if he just barely has enough to make his Rhinos and nothing else. More likely, IMO, is you both have the same economy, but he has more leftover money since he's not spending his as fast.

[truefeel]

TDs aren't bad in Allied vs Allied either, because the Allied high tech units are so lightly-armored.Well, that's compensated by larger range, and with mirages, the need for manual target.

1.4 and 1.1 would make the grizz produce slightly faster. 700*1.4 = 980. 900*1.1 = 990. But that isn't the perfect optimum. The perfect optimum is 7 rhinos takes the same amount of time as 9 grizzlies, the way it works in RA2.yeh, "perfect" in the sence of in practice almost not noticable; you need a large quantitee to see a numeric difference. Though with 1.3*900=1170 and 1.5*700=1050 you have a difference of 120, which is noticable in practice. For 10 rhinoes you have a bit more then 11 grizlies (11.14 to be more exact) theoritically. This makes the assumption of buildtime of grizz in YR = rhino in YR a bit doubtable.

You only need a stronger economy than him if he just barely has enough to make his Rhinos and nothing else. More likely, IMO, is you both have the same economy, but he has more leftover money since he's not spending his as fast.It's possible, no matter what. RA2 does not have any of those multipliers and soviet players manage perfectly to build rhinoes from early game without falling out of money. So it should also be possible in YR, midgame, even with slightly worse miners. Soviet players would also need to build more war factories to build as fast or faster then you with tank destroyers (every 10 rhinoes is theoritically 13 tank destroyers, around 25% faster.)

Does anyone still know how much an extra war factory speed up tank production ? I thought it was around 25%.

[GettinGwap]

no i dont have msn

[truefeel]

Ok, guess we'll have to use the pager function here :).

Oh btw, I made a calculation error. Tank Destroyers just build 30% faster then rhinoes.

[apple23]

There is one minor glitch in tank destroyers, though. While they punch through armor like no other tank, thier anti-structure capability is abysmal, as well as thier anti-infantry.

And as far as the extra war factories go, there is no certain way to know, since in the rules file, the value there is 0.8, but I have no idea what the game does with that number to get what happens in the game.

*EDIT*: Actually, I just checked the rules file, and both the grizzly and rhino have a BTM of 1.5.

And Tank destroyers get absolutely raped by a few GIs and grizzlies, even if you run the GIs over.
Not to mention that mirage tanks WTFpwn them.

[truefeel]

It's not a glitch, but ment that way.

About the extra war factory: that's the exact number I wanted. The 0.8 is multiplied with the buildtime of a unit. For instance, a YR rhino has normally a buildtime of 1170, but if you have 2 war factories, it is 1170*0.8=936.8. So if you make with the comparing with a tank destroyer, you'll see even if the soviet player has 2 war factories, tank destroyer still build slightly (almost not noticable) faster. Yes, an allied player will need to have a deceny economy, but the soviet player needs that even more to build an extra war factory and to build at a faster pace tanks. even on an other way said: as germany, you can build tank destroyers 30 % faster then rhinoes for free, while soviets need to pay 2000 credits to build 20 % faster then normal and still be 4% slower on production (but like I said, that such a small number it can be left out).

Summary: production tank destroyer on one war factory=production rhino on 2 war factories, in YR.

*EDIT*: Actually, I just checked the rules file, and both the grizzly and rhino have a BTM of 1.5.can't be. I double checked. That would mean that grizzlies would certainly still produce faster then rhinoes and that it still would be 7 rhinoes against 9 grizzlies.

I checked both the downloaded from RADEN and the one extracted from the gamefiles; both show 1.3 for rhinoes and 1.5 for grizzlies.

And Tank destroyers get absolutely raped by a few GIs and grizzlies, even if you run the GIs over.
Not to mention that mirage tanks WTFpwn them.Of course you can't just win with tank destroyers alone. You need anti infantry units to take care of fodder. For instance a few rocketeers or a seal IFV handle that well.
But if you do have that, you can rape grizzlies with such an ease. Mirages are indeed maybe too powerfull (longer range and the need of manual target+prism tanks are far better at killing mirages), but against just basic tanks like rhinoes and grizzlies, the tank destroyer might be really underestimated.

[Statalyzer]

Mirage Tanks do not pwn Tank Destroyers. It's a pretty even fight if you have equally pricey forces, i.e. 12 TDs to every 9 Mirages.

The Mirages probably have a slight advantage, but (1)it's small enough to be overcomeable by micro, and (2)if you add a few prisms to each force, suddenly the TDs have a huge advantage.

12 tank destroyers + 6 prisms should annihilate 9 mirages + 6 prisms (or 15 mirages).

[truefeel]

You still have to manually target mirage tanks, which is the main issue. You need outstanding micro to make the difference. It might also be possible to do hit 'n run; mirages have a larger range and are way faster.

And if you also want to add prism tanks, then plz go entirely on prism tanks. Prism tanks do the job much better then tank destroyers, against mirages, and are also good against infantry and buildings. It's no use to go on mixing when clearly prism tanks are far better and safer.

Maybe tank destroyers do really excell against prism tanks, although the higher number of prism tanks, the more that advantage fades away;tank destroyers are slow and the prism beam slows them even more down on top of that.

[apple23]

Prism tanks are actually better vs other prism tanks because they have decent range and do only slightly less damage than grizzlies

Also, rocketeer spam + self spy glitch = pwnage X 10



I don't know what rules file you are using, but I copied this DIRECTLY from the rules file in RA2MD.MIX > LOCAL.MIX > RULESMD.INI.:

; Heavy Tank
[HTNK]
UIName=Name:HTNK
Name=Rhino Heavy Tank
Prerequisite=NAWEAP
Primary=120mm
Strength=400
Category=AFV
Armor=heavy
Turret=yes
IsTilter=yes
TargetLaser=no
TooBigToFitUnderBridge=true
TechLevel=2
Sight=8
Speed=6
CrateGoodie=no
Crusher=yes
Owner=Russians,Confederation,Africans,Arabs
Cost=900
Soylent=900
Points=25
ROT=5
IsSelectableCombatant=yes
Explosion=TWLT070,S_BANG48,S_BRNL58,S_CLSN58,S_TUMU60
VoiceSelect=GenSovVehicleSelect
VoiceMove=GenSovVehicleMove
VoiceAttack=GenSovVehicleAttackCommand
VoiceFeedback=
DieSound=GenVehicleDie
MoveSound=RhinoTankMoveStart
CrushSound=TankCrush
Maxdebris=3
;origional - Locomotor={55D141B8-DB94-11d1-AC98-006008055BB5}
Locomotor={4A582741-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1}
MovementZone=Destroyer
ThreatPosed=40 ; This value MUST be 0 for all building addons
DamageParticleSystems=SparkSys,SmallGreySSys
DamageSmokeOffset=100, 100, 275
Weight=3.5
VeteranAbilities=STRONGER,FIREPOWER,SIGHT,FASTER
EliteAbilities=SELF_HEAL,STRONGER,FIREPOWER,ROF
Accelerates=false
ZFudgeColumn=8
ZFudgeTunnel=13
Size=3
OpportunityFire=yes
ElitePrimary=120mmE
BuildTimeMultiplier=1.5;Individual control of build time


; Medium Tank
[MTNK]
UIName=Name:MTNK
Name=Grizzly Battle Tank
Image=GTNK
Prerequisite=GAWEAP
Primary=105mm
Strength=300
Category=AFV
Armor=heavy
Turret=yes
IsTilter=yes
Crusher=yes
TooBigToFitUnderBridge=true
TechLevel=2
Sight=8
Speed=7
CrateGoodie=no
Owner=British,French,Germans,Americans,Alliance
Cost=700
Soylent=700
Points=25
ROT=5
IsSelectableCombatant=yes
Explosion=TWLT070,S_BANG48,S_BRNL58,S_CLSN58,S_TUMU60
VoiceSelect=GenAllVehicleSelect
VoiceMove=GenAllVehicleMove
VoiceAttack=GenAllVehicleAttackCommand
VoiceFeedback=
DieSound=GenVehicleDie
MoveSound=GrizzlyTankMoveStart
CrushSound=TankCrush
MaxDebris=2
; origional - Locomotor={55D141B8-DB94-11d1-AC98-006008055BB5}
Locomotor={4A582741-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1}
;MovementZone=Destroyer ;gs FLAW needs to be changed to this when The Flaw is fixed
MovementZone=Normal
ThreatPosed=15 ; This value MUST be 0 for all building addons
DamageParticleSystems=SparkSys,SmallGreySSys
VeteranAbilities=STRONGER,FIREPOWER,SIGHT,FASTER
EliteAbilities=SELF_HEAL,STRONGER,FIREPOWER,ROF
Accelerates=false
ImmuneToVeins=yes
Size=3
OpportunityFire=yes
ElitePrimary=105mmE
BuildTimeMultiplier=1.5;Individual control of build time

You can go and check it yourself. Just grab XCC mixer and pull the file out of the MIX.

*EDITAGE*: Also, for the ranges and damage comparisons vs armor of the weapons we're dealing with:

Now, I will give a COMPLETE breakdown of how the mirage tank and destroyer compare. this is long, so I put it in spoilers to save space.

; Tank Destroyer gun
[SABOT]
Damage=150 ;was 135
ROF=70
Range=5
Projectile=Cannon
Speed=60
Warhead=UltraAP
Report=TankDestroyerAttack
Anim=GUNFIRE
Bright=yes

[MirageGun]
Damage=100
ROF=70
Range=7
Projectile=InvisibleLow
Speed=100
Warhead=MirageWH
DisguiseFireOnly=no ; SJM: design change, tank can fire always
Report=MirageTankAttack
Bright=yes
Anim=VTMUZZLE
DisguiseFakeBlinkTime=15 ; when a mirage fires, its disguise blinks for this long for VISUAL ONLY, not a logic blink
RevealOnFire=no ; Doesn't clear shroud when fired

So the mirage has 2 cells longer range, but 50 less damage.

[MirageWH] // Supposed to be a heat ray.
Verses=100%,100%,80%,100%,100%,100%,30%,20%,20%,100%,100% ; Needs balancing by designers
AnimList=IRONFX ; temp, should have flash-o-light
InfDeath=4 ; Burn death
Bright=true ; This says there should be Combat Lighting. It's ignored, but we'll say it anyway.
CLDisableBlue=true ; This says the Combat Light should be red. (1)
CLDisableGreen=true ; This says the Combat Light should be red. (2)

; armor piercing (discarding sabot, narrow effect)(Tank Destroyer warhead)

;CellSpread=0
;PercentAtMax=1
Wall=yes
Wood=yes
Verses=2%,2%,2%,[U]100%,40%,100%,2%,2%,2%,2%,100% ; can only be used on armor
Conventional=yes
InfDeath=3
AnimList=S_CLSN30
ProneDamage=50%

So the only tank-vs-tank difference in warhead damage here is that TDs aren't half as good against harversters (the 40% is harvester armor)

; Mirage Tank
[MGTK]
UIName=Name:MGTK
Name=Mirage Tank
Image=RTNK
Prerequisite=GAWEAP,GATECH
Primary=MirageGun
DisguiseWhenStill=yes;gs I can no longer pick a disguise nor deploy
;Primary=TankMakeupKit
;Secondary=MirageGun
;IsSimpleDeployer=yes ;gs yeah for alpha date rewrite!
;OmniFire=yes
Strength=200
Category=AFV
Armor=light
Turret=no
IsTilter=yes
Crusher=yes
TooBigToFitUnderBridge=true
TechLevel=9
Sight=9
Speed=7
CrateGoodie=yes
Owner=British,French,Germans,Americans,Alliance
Cost=1000
Soylent=1000
Points=25
ROT=5
IsSelectableCombatant=yes
CanDisguise=yes
CanApproachTarget=no ; gs 9/15 Re-put in. But now this will not apply to an Attack Mission. Best of both worlds, and Dustin kicks butt
;CanRetaliate=no ; thought about this one too. Don't need it since first shot will disguise as the bad guy and then you can keep shooting, and he'll keep shooting since you don't detach on disguise
;CanPassiveAquire=no ; not essential, but might not want it giving away position
Explosion=TWLT070,S_BANG48,S_BRNL58,S_CLSN58,S_TUMU60
VoiceSelect=MirageTankSelect
VoiceMove=MirageTankMove
VoiceAttack=MirageTankAttackCommand
VoiceFeedback=
DieSound=GenVehicleDie
MoveSound=MirageTankMoveStart
MaxDebris=2
Locomotor={4A582741-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1}
MovementZone=Normal
ThreatPosed=15 ; This value MUST be 0 for all building addons
DamageParticleSystems=SparkSys;gs the sparks look cool, but the smoke gives it away too easily ,SmallGreySSys
VeteranAbilities=STRONGER,FIREPOWER,SIGHT,FASTER
EliteAbilities=SELF_HEAL,STRONGER,FIREPOWER,ROF
Accelerates=false
ImmuneToVeins=yes
Size=3
AllowedToStartInMultiplayer=no
EliteSecondary=MirageGunE
CrushSound=TankCrush

; Tank Destroyer
[TNKD]
UIName=Name:TNKD
Name=Tank Destroyer
Prerequisite=GAWEAP,RADAR
Primary=SABOT
Strength=400
Category=AFV
Armor=heavy
Turret=no
IsTilter=yes
Crusher=yes
TooBigToFitUnderBridge=true
TechLevel=2
Sight=8
Speed=5
CrateGoodie=yes
Owner=British,French,Germans,Americans,Alliance
RequiredHouses=Germans
AllowedToStartInMultiplayer=no
Cost=900
Soylent=900
Points=25
ROT=5
IsSelectableCombatant=yes
Explosion=TWLT070,S_BANG48,S_BRNL58,S_CLSN58,S_TUMU60
VoiceSelect=TankDestroyerSelect
VoiceMove=TankDestroyerMove
VoiceAttack=TankDestroyerAttackCommand
VoiceFeedback=
DieSound=GenVehicleDie
CrushSound=TankCrush
MoveSound=TankDestroyerMoveStart
MaxDebris=2
Locomotor={4A582741-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1}
MovementZone=Normal
ThreatPosed=15 ; This value MUST be 0 for all building addons
DamageParticleSystems=SparkSys,SmallGreySSys
VeteranAbilities=STRONGER,FIREPOWER,SIGHT,FASTER
EliteAbilities=SELF_HEAL,STRONGER,FIREPOWER,ROF
Accelerates=false
ImmuneToVeins=yes
Size=3
ElitePrimary=SABOTE

so mirage tank has half the health and almost twice the speed as the TD, and the mirage has lighter armor (though if you look at warhead damage, that dosen't matter a whole lot anyways)

So, in summary, the mirage tank has further range, but less damage. It has lighter armor and half as much strength, but it is faster and can disguise itself. In theory, this looks balanced, all things considered, but in practice, mirage tanks probably win because you have to manually target them.

[GettinGwap]

ill tell u guys that i played a 2v2 on EVB one day and i was germany on spot 4. there was a guy on the oil nearest spot 1. he was soviet. well, like any soviet opponent he rushed my base early with about 6 or 7 rhinos. i had 1 tank destroyer and 3 or 4 grizzlies i think there. but near the hill i had another refinery and an air force command full with harriers. i saw the attack coming when he was halfway there because i was using harriers to help my ally on hill. i managed to weaken to of the tanks, but he got to my base and killed my grizzlies. i managed to take out 4 of his tanks though, and a second tank destroyer rolled out. those two tanks destroyers owned his rhinos. so i defended against his attack while only losing 3 grizzlies. my ally on hill managed to get the upper hand because i helped him. so i turned my efforts into invading the sov guy on 1. i made like 5 or 6 grizzlies and 3 tank destroyers along with a few mirages. i got to his base and he moved his tanks away from me(dunno why). I attacked one of his war factories and took it out so he attacked my tanks. He had about 8 rhinos. i think i lost a grizzly but those tank destroyers really owned his tanks. i think its 3 shots from a tank destroyer to kill a rhino. they really are underestimated. if he wouldve ran away i couldve chased him with grizzlies i had left and caught him or attacked his buildings. they are good on the offensive too, as long as they are support units.

[truefeel]

@apple: there must be something wrong with your rulesmd, b/c I have this:

;Heavy Tank
[HTNK]
UIName=Name:HTNK
Name=Rhino Heavy Tank
Prerequisite=NAWEAP
Primary=120mm
Strength=400
Category=AFV
Armor=heavy
Turret=yes
IsTilter=yes
TargetLaser=no
TooBigToFitUnderBridge=true
TechLevel=2
Sight=8
Speed=6
CrateGoodie=no
Crusher=yes
Owner=Russians,Confederation,Africans,Arabs
Cost=900
Soylent=900
Points=25
ROT=5
IsSelectableCombatant=yes
Explosion=TWLT070,S_BANG48,S_BRNL58,S_CLSN58,S_TUMU60
VoiceSelect=GenSovVehicleSelect
VoiceMove=GenSovVehicleMove
VoiceAttack=GenSovVehicleAttackCommand
VoiceFeedback=
DieSound=GenVehicleDie
MoveSound=RhinoTankMoveStart
CrushSound=TankCrush
Maxdebris=3
;origional - Locomotor={55D141B8-DB94-11d1-AC98-006008055BB5}
Locomotor={4A582741-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1}
MovementZone=Destroyer
ThreatPosed=40 ; This value MUST be 0 for all building addons
DamageParticleSystems=SparkSys,SmallGreySSys
DamageSmokeOffset=100, 100, 275
Weight=3.5
VeteranAbilities=STRONGER,FIREPOWER,SIGHT,FASTER
EliteAbilities=SELF_HEAL,STRONGER,FIREPOWER,ROF
Accelerates=false
ZFudgeColumn=8
ZFudgeTunnel=13
Size=3
OpportunityFire=yes
ElitePrimary=120mmE
BuildTimeMultiplier=1.3;Individual control of build time

EDIT: And yes, I was able to play online. I did extracted though the rulesmd from a different location: expandmd01.mix. So you have 2 different rulesmd files. Now I think mine is the right one due if both tanks would have 1.5 buildtime, it would still be 9 grizzlies against 7 rhino tanks, and that is certainly not in YR. Also: this rulesmd file matches exactly the one I downloaded from RADEN.

EDIT2: I searched around and it appears that expandmd01.mix is actually a file from the 1.001 patch, so it overwrites the one in the localmd.mix.
INIs located in ra2.mix --> local.mix, ra2md.mix --> localmd.mix, expandmd01.mix (this version is the one used by most recent YR patch)


http://modenc.renegadeprojects.com/INIs

there, that solves the miscomunication I think :p.

Also, rocketeer spam + self spy glitch = pwnage X 10

self spy glitch is forbidden !


ill tell u guys that i played a 2v2 on EVB one day and i was germany on spot 4. there was a guy on the oil nearest spot 1. he was soviet. well, like any soviet opponent he rushed my base early with about 6 or 7 rhinos. i had 1 tank destroyer and 3 or 4 grizzlies i think there. but near the hill i had another refinery and an air force command full with harriers. i saw the attack coming when he was halfway there because i was using harriers to help my ally on hill. i managed to weaken to of the tanks, but he got to my base and killed my grizzlies. i managed to take out 4 of his tanks though, and a second tank destroyer rolled out. those two tanks destroyers owned his rhinos. so i defended against his attack while only losing 3 grizzlies. my ally on hill managed to get the upper hand because i helped him. so i turned my efforts into invading the sov guy on 1. i made like 5 or 6 grizzlies and 3 tank destroyers along with a few mirages. i got to his base and he moved his tanks away from me(dunno why). I attacked one of his war factories and took it out so he attacked my tanks. He had about 8 rhinos. i think i lost a grizzly but those tank destroyers really owned his tanks. i think its 3 shots from a tank destroyer to kill a rhino. they really are underestimated. if he wouldve ran away i couldve chased him with grizzlies i had left and caught him or attacked his buildings. they are good on the offensive too, as long as they are support units.


we should try it out sometime. When do you have time ?

[apple23]

ah crap, I forgot about expandmd01.MIX. My bad. That rules file was the one of the origional version, which TBH was better anyways.

The only good thing about the patch was the bugfixes, but the patch screwed balance up quite a bit.


self spy glitch is forbidden !


Not in RA2, it isn't. I almost always play RA2 anyways. YR sucks IMO.

For modding, it is a different story...

[truefeel]

Well, online it is, b/c the self spy glitch is bug abbuse :p.

ah crap, I forgot about expandmd01.MIX. My bad. That rules file was the one of the origional version, which TBH was better anyways.

The only good thing about the patch was the bugfixes, but the patch screwed balance up quite a bit.


No, the best rulesmd is the one of me and daishi :p.

Not in RA2, it isn't. I almost always play RA2 anyways. YR sucks IMO.

That's only 50% true. RA2 has indeed the better balance, but YR has somewhat a better gameplay. It's more varied then RA2. If YR was better balanced, RA2 would not make a chance.

[thetechieotaku]

Playing as Germany is easy than first-time players think. Having a Tank Destroyer could leave Apocs useless especially if you do the old-school hit-and-run. Tank Destroyers are only effective against enemy armour not infantry so you have to cover your Tank Destoryers with Prism Tanks when you are using it to scout for enemy units.

[truefeel]

One problem: apocs are never made in online games cause rhinoes do the job overall better.Prism tanks have one big weakness: desolators. Prism tanks also don't alot of damage to rhino tanks. It's really not recommended to use them against soviets.
And, no: playing germany is not that easy b/c if your opponent has fodder, you need first to eliminate that. Allieds have options for that, but a good soviet player will try to block those options. Tank Destroyers are also slow in comparing to rhinoes. It might be easy against regular players who just spam tanks in hope to win though.

[Cylon Crusader]

Offensively, I use a combo of 5-7 tank destoyers and 15-20 grizzlies, and a few prisms in the mix as well.

Defensively, I find choke points on the map and fill them up with a few tank destroyers and a few Seal IFVs and one or two engie IFVs to repair the tank destoyers.

[Statalyzer]

And if you also want to add prism tanks, then plz go entirely on prism tanks. Prism tanks do the job much better then tank destroyers, against mirages, and are also good against infantry and buildings.

Yeah but you can't build Prisms while at radar, plus if I build nothing but pure Prisms, the opponent can just go back to good ol' grizzlies.

[truefeel]

Well, you said it was against mirage tanks. Mirage tanks aren't exactly neither buildable on radar level. Grizzly tanks lack the armour to kill prism tanks (wel atleast if the number aren't low).

[Statalyzer]

Well, you said it was against mirage tanks. Mirage tanks aren't exactly neither buildable on radar level.

No, but while I have a radar and not a battle lab, I'm not going to build nothing.

[truefeel]

Ah, you see it that way. What I ment is was when you are able to choose between tank destroyers and prism tanks, I would go for prism tanks. Not both.

[Statalyzer]

So basically you're saying pure Prisms own everything except air and don't need any ground support?

[Fenring]

Sadly... that's almost true... except that heavy armor walks all over them...

[GettinGwap]

Sadly... that's almost true... except that heavy armor walks all over them...

yes i agree. a more versatile group is always better than a homogenous one. besides, prisms cost a bit more.

[Fenring]

They have longer range and weapon fragging. That extra frag is really devastating, especially at elite.

[truefeel]

So basically you're saying pure Prisms own everything except air and don't need any ground support?Well, allieds ground for sure; tank destroyers might be an exception (it is something I've never tested before). You do need support when you don't have good quantities of them, but as you already builded that support during T1 and T2, it will not pose a problem. But against a larger amount of prism tanks, you'll have a difficult time, as allieds I have to repeat. Rhino tanks have the armour to against it. A tank like grizzly tanks simply lack that armour.

[Fenring]

Even against Rhino Tanks, Prisms still walk all over them. That range and frag has a lot of sway... though, I'd still rather pack Mirage Tanks for anti-armor but that's just me.

[truefeel]

Rhinoes handle prism tanks very well; normal prism tanks lack the firepower to come through that.