Who won in RA2?

[wkw427]

Assuming the events have played out like this:

RA1: allies
RA2: allies
YR: ???

Who should as assume won in yuris revenge? My bet is on the soviets. They had the time machine and went back to prevent the wars...

[kyle]

Allies always the win.
They won in RA, they won in RA2, and they won in YR. If Soviets won in YR then they wouldn't need to go back in time in RA3, they would dominated the entire world.

[Fenring]

It's not that simple. I dunno if this is perfect or not, but some of the modding community came up with this;

- Soviets win Red Alert, there is Red Alert 2 and you straight to Tiberian Dawn.
- Allies win Red Alert, you have Red Alert 2.

- Soviets win Red Alert 2 & Yuri's Revenge, you go to Tiberian Dawn.
- Allies win Red Alert 2 & Yuri's Revenge, you have Red Alert 3.

[truefeel]

It's more like:

RA1:
-soviet win -> tiberium dawn (stalin killed by Kane, who will use Russia for troops for nod)
-allieds win -> RA2

RA2:
-soviet win-> dead end (yuri defeated completely, only thing that's left is his brains)
-allieds win-> yuri's revenge

Yuri's revenge:
-soviet win-> For now, dead end. Dunno if they go any further in future at that timeline
-allieds win-> RA3

Generally, if the good guys win, the storyline continues. If the baddies win, storyline ends.

[wkw427]

Yea but by the end of YR the world is in ruin. If the allies won, soviets would not have the time machine!

I think the fact that them having the time machine and wanting to prevent the wars means soviets won.

It's about time the red won!
GDI always wins and they are yellow
Allies always win and they are blue

NOD gets beat, walked on, and nuked but still is able to come back and fight, and they are red
Soviets are the victem of allies stoping WW2, so do what they would of done anyway, and still get their arse kicked! AND they are red!

[pipinowns]

Yea but by the end of YR the world is in ruin. If the allies won, soviets would not have the time machine!

I think the fact that them having the time machine and wanting to prevent the wars means soviets won.

It's about time the red won!
GDI always wins and they are yellow
Allies always win and they are blue

NOD gets beat, walked on, and nuked but still is able to come back and fight, and they are red
Soviets are the victem of allies stoping WW2, so do what they would of done anyway, and still get their arse kicked! AND they are red!

I don't think there color has much to do with it.

Also Nod won in Command and Conquer 3.

It's funny how the cool factions only win when EA is in charge. But with Westwood GDI and Allies always won.

[wkw427]

Forgot nod won in cnc3! :p

I didn't play through kw campeign.

[Statalyzer]

The myth never dies.

The Tiberium series does not proceed from a Soviet RA win. Nod wouldn't need to be a covert operation that has to buy parts on the black market if their leader was in charge of the Soviet Army that had just taken control of all of Europe. And GDI (which acts a lot like NATO and the UN) wouldn't have a chance of forming with France, England, and Germany (plus Italy, Greece, Poland, etc) all conquered.

[Zardac the Great]

And if the Soviet Union had collapsed in 1991, the GDI nations would have been too weak in 1995 to successfully fight Nod.

Only an Allied victory has a chance to lead to C&C, but EA officially said there was no connection.

[apple23]

The RA and Tiberian universes have no connection whatsoever, and no RA, RA2, or RA3 scenario would end up as the predecessor to a Tiberian universe. For starters, the world would have to be struck with a tiberium saturated meteor in an RA game to even begin to lead to a Tiberian universe.

Even if Kane and GDI existed, there is no tiberium, and that plays a massive role in shaping the tiberian universe, as well as all the other things Statalyzer mentioned. If Kane was in control of russia, he wouldn't have high tech, stealthy, hit-and run tactics. That is just not russia. They are generally lower tech, heavy and hard hitting, the exact opposite of NOD's strategies.

Also, if the soviets won in any of the RA games, there would be no western european nations to form GDI with.

[Miles]

As far as I remember, EA officially stated that the Red Alert series and the Tiberian series were supposed to be connected when they made RA1, but they abandoned the idea to connect both when making RA2.
Which is a good thing.
Tiberian Dawn takes place somewhere in the end of the 20th century, right? Red Alert 1 takes place in 1940-1950. Red Alert 2 IIRC was taking place approx 20 years after RA1, which makes is 1960-1970.
I doubt that in the "short" period of time between 1970 and 1990, the world would go from a clean and bright place where there is barely any pollution to a tiberium infested craphole where two superpowers totally different from the Soviets and Allies fight each other.

[Cylon Crusader]

Wasn't Russia a part of GDI? Part of the G7?

[Miles]

Wasn't Russia a part of GDI? Part of the G7?

Russia is a part of The UN and the G8, unless the American government decided to kick them out because of the crisis in Georgia... SO it's totally inconsistent with a Soviet victory in RA1 or 2

[truefeel]

The myth never dies.

The Tiberium series does not proceed from a Soviet RA win. Nod wouldn't need to be a covert operation that has to buy parts on the black market if their leader was in charge of the Soviet Army that had just taken control of all of Europe. And GDI (which acts a lot like NATO and the UN) wouldn't have a chance of forming with France, England, and Germany (plus Italy, Greece, Poland, etc) all conquered.

Well, the only connection is the end of the soviet campaign. I don't think it's the meaning to think alot by it and assume this or that, b/c there's only a very thin connection. Don't forget: this is probably just made to let people to think about and to generate interests for the next cnc games.

[Statalyzer]

Well, the only connection is the end of the soviet campaign.

And Kane's existence.

And the Allies forming a Global Defense Force in one of the Allied Missions.

And the way the GDI and Nod both borrow from a lot of the RA technology.

[Ivan_Moscavich]

Russia is a part of The UN and the G8, unless the American government decided to kick them out because of the crisis in Georgia... SO it's totally inconsistent with a Soviet victory in RA1 or 2


Don't even try to bling anything political into this.

And whether you like it or not, Russia is the worlds second largest exporter of oil and oil related products. So if you kick them out of the G8 (which is impossible because that requires a majority vote, and there will be no majority due to the following reason) , oil prices will sky rocket, you think 5 bucks a gallon is bad, try 25, or 30 bucks. Alot of people don't even any attention beyond what their news tells them.

My father is a very intelligent man, and he has a deep seated hatred of Russia because it was drilled into him during the cold war that the Soviets were to be hated. but even he knows that what the polticians today are doing is just total bull****.

I'm not going any further into any more political related things here becasue I know damn well it will devolve into one huge mess, which I will not be responsible for.

Just rememeber this (and you really can't aruge with it, there is no possible way to make a smart ass come back or even technical rebutle) if you **** with Russia, oil prices sky rocket, meaning less driving, less profits, and the economy in ruins here in the states, we try to **** with russia beyond basic poltical posturing, we **** ourselves over in the long run and shoot outselves in the foot. End of story.

Also, i'm not trying to make any political statement here, I personaly don't care what politician's are doing to their own asses, what I care about is what will effect me, and people like me.

[Miles]

Please point out where I said I wanted Russia to be kicked out of the G8. I didn't. To be perfectly honest, I even think the US government's reaction towards Russia was uncalled for and I'm glad Europe (which is where I live) decided not to impose any sanctions.
What happens in Georgia is none of our business: it's between Russia and Georgia. Not to mention I'd rather get my oil and gas from a partner like Russia than from other more unstable countries. EU and Russia have been partners for years, it's certainly not in our of Russia's interest to severe these.

I'm not trying to bring any political discussions with this, but if the US government does decide to kick them out (which I hope will NOT happen), Russia would technically no longer be a part of the G8 and thus the story of Red Alert connecting to the Tiberium Universe would no longer be consistent. That is all. You're making this a political question because you totally wrongfully assumed I'm in favor of Russia being kicked out.

This is a C&C forum, not a political one.

[truefeel]

And Kane's existence.

And the Allies forming a Global Defense Force in one of the Allied Missions.

And the way the GDI and Nod both borrow from a lot of the RA technology.

I mean the only direct connection.

[wkw427]

Whose to say that Kane made you (leader of Russia) have the europian nations as their own states under your rule?

And saying soviet tactics are diffirent from Nod, whose to say Kane didn't change it?

That is nearly 50 years. Alot can happen in that time!

Wouldn't it be safe to assume that RA's soviet ending has a WEAK connection to tib dawn? It exists, but makes no sense at all in every way

[truefeel]

I didn't said that. The Soviet Union probably broke up with the dead of stalin, restoring it to how it was before the great war. I said though that Russia probably came under the influence of Kane (Kane used the russian steps for his cyborgs, remember ?)

And saying soviet tactics are diffirent from Nod, whose to say Kane didn't change it?

That is nearly 50 years. Alot can happen in that time!

Wouldn't it be safe to assume that RA's soviet ending has a WEAK connection to tib dawn? It exists, but makes no sense at all in every way

1. Well, they are obvious changed. More: GDI took the more primitive assets over from the Soviets.

2. Of course, and we as fans can only guess to it. Whatever I or you or somebody else says, it stays everybodies their opinion.

3.Well, weak in a sence. It's infact the most direct connection. It might makes no sence, but tell me: do stealth tanks, obelisks and tiberium make sence ? It's a game, we shouldn't take it so literally. In my eyes, it was an attempt of westwood to connect the tiberium dimension with the RA dimension.

[wkw427]

True. Russia had stealth tanks, Voklov the cyborg, and the ability to make force fields around something from a huge distance (iron curtan) so my money is on Kane building up Nod as a rebel group under russia, and have the govt of russia NOT be in nod to make them seem more holy or something.

But then again, It is just a game ;)

[Ivan_Moscavich]

Please point out where I said I wanted Russia to be kicked out of the G8. I didn't. To be perfectly honest, I even think the US government's reaction towards Russia was uncalled for and I'm glad Europe (which is where I live) decided not to impose any sanctions.
What happens in Georgia is none of our business: it's between Russia and Georgia. Not to mention I'd rather get my oil and gas from a partner like Russia than from other more unstable countries. EU and Russia have been partners for years, it's certainly not in our of Russia's interest to severe these.

I'm not trying to bring any political discussions with this, but if the US government does decide to kick them out (which I hope will NOT happen), Russia would technically no longer be a part of the G8 and thus the story of Red Alert connecting to the Tiberium Universe would no longer be consistent. That is all. You're making this a political question because you totally wrongfully assumed I'm in favor of Russia being kicked out.

This is a C&C forum, not a political one.

You misuderstand me completely. I was speaking directly about the US government, not about you.
I assume all of use here are at least more than of average intelligence. I mean we're RTS players, the smartest of all gamers.
I'm glad you understand what would happen if the US "tryed"" to kick russia out of the G8 (this would require a vote for all G8 nations, and I doubt the vote would pass).
I suggest after this post, or your response, we cease this discussion lest someone else comes in and try to make it what we both know it will become if this continues.

[SgtRicko]

I assume all of use here are at least more than of average intelligence. I mean we're RTS players, the smartest of all gamers.


I thought Turn-based strategy gamers were considered the smartest... ah well, thanks for the compliment anyways!:D

But to kill the arguement once and for all... Westwood themselves said there is no connection between the two timelines whatsoever. Kane originally appeared in the cinematics solely for the sake of a simple cameo appearance (and a bit of fanfare), but the reason they later decided to make it into an actual plot point by the end was so that they could have a possible future storyline to work on (just as Truefeel mentioned earlier in this thread).

Now, if EA decides to canonize it in the upcoming RA3 game, then that's another story entirely...

[Miles]

You misuderstand me completely. I was speaking directly about the US government, not about you.
I assume all of use here are at least more than of average intelligence. I mean we're RTS players, the smartest of all gamers.
I'm glad you understand what would happen if the US "tryed"" to kick russia out of the G8 (this would require a vote for all G8 nations, and I doubt the vote would pass).
I suggest after this post, or your response, we cease this discussion lest someone else comes in and try to make it what we both know it will become if this continues.

You're absolutely right. We indeed both agree on what would happen if Russia gets kicked out or "isolated".
So yeah lets not continue talking about this: we both agree on it anyways :)

That being said, I really want to play RA3. I can't wait to hear Hell March 3, hear the Russian accents, play this game in multiplayer, etc. I hope I'll enjoy it as much as ZH and RA2

[wkw427]

I just hope the actors are good. EG: The british guy is acualy british, maybe, but I feel that the russians will be cheesy

[apple23]

Don't even try to bling anything political into this.

I won't go any further, but i will point out that you brought ALOT more polotics than he did into this discussion by a long, long shot.



And seriously guys, give it a rest. Westwood officially announced that there was no connection between TD and RA, and they had never tried to make one.

[Statalyzer]

Westwood officially announced that there was no connection between TD and RA, and they had never tried to make one.

They definitely tried to make one, even though they backtracked on it later.

[Ivan_Moscavich]

True. Russia had stealth tanks, Voklov the cyborg, and the ability to make force fields around something from a huge distance (iron curtan) so my money is on Kane building up Nod as a rebel group under russia, and have the govt of russia NOT be in nod to make them seem more holy or something.

But then again, It is just a game ;)

I don't recall Russia ever having anything stealthed. The allies used Mirage tanks in two though, which is about as close to stealth as you can get.

The Brotherhood of Nod takes people from all over the world, not just one country, it just happens that in the Russian storyline Kane is Stalin's adviser, in order to get a jump start on his own plans. Both GDI and Nod employ soldiers from all countries.

I won't go any further, but i will point out that you brought ALOT more polotics than he did into this discussion by a long, long shot.

That is only a partialy true statement, I used world economics in a sense to dispute political argument. I expressly avoided bringing national politics into the dicussion because I knew it would devolve into a political discussion, followed by which country is better, and more than likely, if not stopped, down right bigotry and racism, which I had already stated I would not be responsible for.
And if for any purpose I had brought any amount of politics into this, it was for the express purpose of attempting to maintain a nuetral position in order to resolve the dispute in the quickest, most effiecent way possible.
Please note this is not meant to be any sort of attack or rebutle, just a clarrification, respond if you want, but I'm fairly sure there is no need to.

[truefeel]

I don't recall Russia ever having anything stealthed. The allies used Mirage tanks in two though, which is about as close to stealth as you can get.

The Brotherhood of Nod takes people from all over the world, not just one country, it just happens that in the Russian storyline Kane is Stalin's adviser, in order to get a jump start on his own plans. Both GDI and Nod employ soldiers from all countries.

In an aftermath mission, you are ordered to steal some allied technology: the stealth tank: some sort of apc, for just one person, with relative long range missiles. I rather think Kane was more the person of bringing thea or documents, but certainly not an adviser. His generals did that.

Like I said, you all think too much about the storyline. They tried to connect it one or other way, but the result is guessing inbetween the many flaws.

[Miles]

Guys guys, EA and Westwood themselves already said that they abandoned all efforts to connect both stories. I'm not sure if it was ever their intention to do so but if it was, they abandoned it when they made RA2. Give it a rest indeed.

[apple23]

my thoughts exactly.


That is only a partialy true statement, I used world economics in a sense to dispute political argument. I expressly avoided bringing national politics into the dicussion because I knew it would devolve into a political discussion, followed by which country is better, and more than likely, if not stopped, down right bigotry and racism, which I had already stated I would not be responsible for.
And if for any purpose I had brought any amount of politics into this, it was for the express purpose of attempting to maintain a nuetral position in order to resolve the dispute in the quickest, most effiecent way possible.
Please note this is not meant to be any sort of attack or rebutle, just a clarrification, respond if you want, but I'm fairly sure there is no need to.


Now don't get me wrong here, I fully understand where you stand here, but I just wanted to clarify that Economics is essentially a subdivision of politics.
Bring up world economics, and you just brought up world politics.

Anyways, I'm not trying to refute your statement, just clarifying like you did.

And also, I gotta give you props for being the bigger man here, as this most certainly would otherwise degenerate into a flamewar political discussion if the wrong people got into this discussion.

[truefeel]

That's only half true and is for each country different. I u talk about a true communist country, like the soviet union in the past, then u r right. If you talk about USA, then it's only half true, b/c the USA only interferes with the economy when it is needed.

[apple23]

It dosen't really matter how the government system is set up. Here, I will rephrase what I said earlier. Economics is in close relation (if you will) to politics. Bring economics up, and politics is bound to come with it.

Hope that makes a little more sense.

[truefeel]

That's more of an opinion, lol. economics is certainly under influence of politics, but economics being part of it ? I think that's a step too far;).

[apple23]

Well, politics are also under the infleuence of economics to a degree. To bring up just one example, if the economy is in shambles, the presidential candidates would certainly focus on that in thier campaign, or at least include it in thier speeches. Presidential candidates are certainly politics.

[truefeel]

president-candidates would use anything in their advantage to get elected. If there's a better project to work around then economics, they will certainly put that on the program instead. Besides, they all talk nice about the economics, but most of the cases nothing comes from their promises. You see, politicians can do all the talking they want, but in the end it's company who makes it and sells it to the people and the people who buy the product from the company. Demand and Offer. As simple as it can get.

[Ivan_Moscavich]

No no no no no, this is exactly what I was trying to avoid, I think.

Everything is related to politics in a way, but not blatantly so, neither is everything depedent on politics.

[thetechieotaku]

Also, if the soviets won in any of the RA games, there would be no western european nations to form GDI with.

Those western European nations could be puppet ones, I think, if the USSR still exist.

[truefeel]

My idea is that the western european countries would be free again, b/c stalin get killed. USA could had given help also in this.

[Statalyzer]

Stalin getting killed wouldn't change anything unless his successor was incompetant.

[truefeel]

Like I said, it's guessing, which is the exactly what is meant.

[Black Hand]

I think it's more complicated than it seems.
The fact is that the whole story started from the middle.

C&C Tiberian Dawn had no clues about what happened before.

When RA1 come out Kane was there to connect to TD. However I think they never realized there would have been more than 1 RA. Infact Kane disapperared from both RA2 and RA3.

So in RA1 Allies won. Infact during the installation of RA2 a voice tells the story and says that Soviets attaked Europe but the Allies eventually rallied and defeated the Soviets.

Now to know the connection beetwen RA2 and RA3 we need to wait for the game to come out and see how they have dealt with this. At the moment there is no connection beetwen RA2/RA3 and C&C TD.

Different is for the C&C Tibrian series. In the first C&C TD Kane was defeated. Then he reappeared from an unknown base. Infact his face has been damaged surely by the Ion Cannon attack at his temple at the end of TD. In C&C 3 Kanes returns. However how he survived McNeil is a mistery. Infact I remember that McNeil killed him in his piramid. KW is what they needed. Infact KW tells storied before C&C3 Tiberian Wars and after it.
Infact in the first movie from KW you see him hard injuried with that plate on the left side of his face, the same he had in TS. Than we discover he is completely sane.Infact in KW you play missions which are connected with those from C&C3 TW. At the end of KW the cyborg army is again risen from the subterrain bases in Siberia (Here the connection with RA1).
So there will be a new C&C 4...It's title? Well who Knows but surely will follow the resurrection of the cyborgs in Siberia. It's why in KW you plays only as Nod because you need to know what happened and understand the story and more over see Nod win and go ahead instead of the always present GDI.
EA is doing a great job with C&C and bringing on where Westwood left.