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Daishi
09-16-2008, 08:36 AM
This is by me. Since I didn't play too much TS or anything before it, sry if I missed a major unit from back then. :p

10
Kirov Airship - Perhaps the most destructive unit in Red Alert 2, the Kirov Airship was the stingy man's superweapon, capable of laying waste to anything it could position itself over. Since it was such a slow unit, the Kirov normally focused its efforts on base assault. Unfortunately, its total incompatibility with the rest of the Soviet army was its undoing, as all Soviet units were faster and operating on a different plane of mobility, and a large force of tanks could do without the help of a Kirov when it came to base assault. Additionally, the announcement to all players that announced the completion of a Kirov and its unparalleled sluggishness allowed the enemy to dedicate quite some time to preparation, usually intercepting the Kirov on the way with anti-air units. Even if you kept support units under the Kirov, preparation of a few static defenses would fell the Kirov with minimal investment and very little damage. It did find itself often used on the most cramped Free-for-all maps, but has been declared inferior in most situations to the rest of the Soviet arsenal, for sheer inflexibility and unreliability.

9
Attack Outpost - First off, it doesn't make any sense. It's a stealthed vehicle that blares propaganda through its built-in speaker tower, a massive buff from China's primary detector, the Listening Outpost, but one that nonsensically denies the unit a trade-off for this advantage. The unit's role completely morphed from the original unit. While the LO had been designed to supply China with field intelligence, an AO packed with InfGen's veteran infantry was perhaps the most versatile and destructive single unit in Zero Hour, despite being available so early. It wasn't unstoppable if properly scouted, but it certainly seems like too much was packed into this early-game unit, especially with the unparalleled spam that took place in matches vs. China and USA.

8
Desolator - Easily the greatest flaw in RA2 was the Mirage Tank. But one of the worst aspects of that unit was the fact that only one Soviet faction could counter them: Iraq with their overpowered Desolators. The $600 desolator could not be crushed by enemy tanks, allowing them to sit and irradiate the entire battlefield while the enemy creeped away to avoid damage. In a flak track, two or three desolators were capable of causing tens of thousands of dollars of damage in an instant against the Allied late game, and walking, they made unparalleled cannon fodder in Soviet wars as well as a devastating complement to Apocalypses in vRA2.

7
Pathfinder - This is perhaps the most cost-effective unit in the history of C&C. One or two of these $600 snipers could make walking infantry (including heroes) entirely useless for the enemy, being stealthed while firing or garrisoned in a building. Fortunately these units could be detected and snuffed out with ease by the time they became available to USA, but if a player placed them in his humvees, they would be solid and fast in addition to powerful, perfectly complementing the missile defenders that would also populate the vees. This is what happens when you implement CS:S's headshot syndrome into an RTS and give only one faction such powerful snipers.

6
Mirage Tank - An ambush unit designed to catch the enemy off-guard with superior firepower, this unit would have been the ultimate flanking force in the face of a tank offensive, leaving the enemy with nowhere to run except through their attackers. Unfortunately, RA2 had no method of neutralizing the stealth of land vehicles, so the Soviets in particular would have a great deal of trouble without the ability to auto-target enemy Mirage Tanks, making their lack of armor a much smaller disadvantage than the developers would have liked. So instead of complementing the grizzly and prism as a support unit they became extremably spammable against the Soviets, with Iraqi Desolators posing the only genuine threat.

5
Avatar - Originally, the Avatar was supposed to be a high-tier battle tank equivalent that could be upgraded into a walking superweapon. It didn't take long for people to realize they were completely useless. Avatars had a slow rate-of-fire and a weak weapon, and it was always considered more cost-effective to spam upgraded scorpion tanks even so late in the game. The Commandeer Technology ability, which allowed the Avatar to be customized, was also rarely used because the weapon/ability never added enough to make the loss of another unit worthwhile. Eventually, the Avatar was buffed over and over until it became outright overpowered, still straying from the original design intent because the commandeer technology buffs did so little to affect the unit's usefulness.

4
Sentry Drone - This unit is a total laugh. The new Zero Hour units and structures were added either to buff the strengths or even out the weaknesses of each faction, but what the Sentry had to add was too redundant with what USA already boasted: cheap, speedy detection. A humvee with a $100 scout drone had a better survival rate and combat ability than this overpriced lawn gnome, and the SD's detection range was as pitiful as its $1000 excuse for a weapon upgrade. What more is there to say? It was 2x as expensive as it should have been and what it was designed to do America could already do better for free.

3
Magnetron - Why does everyone hate Yuri so much? If you're a noob, it's his psychic units. If you're more experienced, its this. The Magnetron was Yuri's most overpowered weapon, and with Lasher support and good micro, it did more damage than a bunch of Yuri clones could ever hope to. The overpowered tactic in question was interfering in tank vs tank battles by lifting enemy tanks into the air and instantly dropping them, disabling their weapon until they were safe on the ground again, allowing Yuri's tanks to get plenty of free shots. This "tank juggling" maneuver was made all the more deadly by the possibility of the enemy tank being captured by an advancing Master Mind or landing on top of another enemy tank, wiping out both tanks in the process.

2
M.A.R.V. - One of the biggest steps back in C&C3 from Generals was the removal of the secondary economy, complicating later efforts to get the cash flow under control and prevent outright harvester spam until the entire map was depleted. In Kane's Wrath, they gave one faction the game-breaking advantage of making money without spamming refineries. The GDI epic unit, with more armor and the biggest gun in GDI's arsenal, was capable of paying for itself by staying out of battle and mining tiberium at a much faster pace than conventional harvesters, making it all the more deadly on the opponent's side of the field, whether fighting or swiftly depleting their resources by reaping it all for yourself. Fortunately, it was eventually fixed, but the absurdity of the original design intention lives on in the game manual.

1
Boomer Sub - In an upfront naval battle, Yuri's expensive submarines were bound to lose against Destroyers, Dolphins, or Typhoon subs. This would make Yuri completely hopeless in any water map if he failed to get a boomer to the enemy base in the first two minutes. But if the rushing Boomer (which did NOT announce itself to all players upon construction) was not perfectly countered with robot tanks and adequate flak, the player would need to funnel his cash into anti-air and anti-submarine units, detrimentally affecting their chances in the coming land battle. The Boomer was an attempt by Westwood to make a single unit play every role in Yuri's navy, but Yuri would've been a lot more balanced if Yuri had recieved an entire navy to bump the Boomer into Battle Lab level, where it belonged at its price and potential.

SgtRicko
09-16-2008, 10:03 AM
Three units that you missed were the limpet drone, the radar jammer, and the thief.

The limpet drone, which came from TS: Firestorm, had an absolutely horrible LOS, had to be placed almost precisely on the pathway that the enemy would take, and even when it latched on, the amount of fog-of-war that it revealed was pitiful. At least it took a bit of effort to remove it...

The second one was the thief from the first Red Alert's expansion; the guy almost always took less cash from the enemy than he cost, and he was really fragile. The only way you could honestly use the guy (and hope to make a decent profit) was to get a whole APC's worth of them, send them to a completely defenseless ore refinery that also happened to be at it's load capacity, and pray that there were some full silos around too.

Last is the radar jammer from Red Alert 1 as well - although it did screw up the enemy's radar and ability to control their own units if it got close enough, it virtually never did succeed since it had such poor health and no defenses whatsoever. Once again, the enemy had to be practically dead for this unit to be even remotely useful.

apple23
09-16-2008, 07:07 PM
I would like to add two units from the RA3 BETA to this list.

The Apocalypse:

So this go around, RA3 has definitely solved the problem of the apocalypse being underpowered compared to the other units, but they made it WAY too strong. For a mere 2000 credits it can take down any vehicluar land force up to 7000 credits, and with about 900 credits worth of anti air, and about 1300 credits of anti-infantry, you have a force that can only be taken down by a brute force of much much more value than what you spent on that apoc and the tiny amount of support. Not to mention that it is pretty decently fast, as fast as its T2 equivalent with about 1/10 the strength and 1/2 the cost.

The apoc probably wouldn't be much of a problem if it was slower, but the fact that it can actually OURTUN some of the lighter units is simply laughable.

Next up, the Burst drone:

Most useless unit RA3 has to offer. Sure, it is a decent early game scout, but it can't do anything else. it can't even approach a base with a few hundred credits worth of anti air, because its armor is abysmal, and when it attatches itself to a unit, it does absolutely nothing and can be easily spotted and destroyed by the enemy.

Its main problem is its abysmal armor and the fact that it has no function other than to scout, and its secondary ability to do a little tiny amount of damage in exchange for self destruction.

Daishi
09-16-2008, 07:28 PM
All right, apple, it really isn't fair to add units that haven't gone through their final stages of development yet.

Avapodnaught
09-16-2008, 09:29 PM
What about captured slaves, besides their humorous predicament there isn't much to say about those poor weak defenseless hungry warriors for not being great now is there?
(oh yeah...)

Good list, though I would change the order with a few different options (Limpet Drone so needs to be by Sentry Drone)

Statalyzer
09-17-2008, 12:10 AM
it really isn't fair to add units that haven't gone through their final stages of development yet.

Plus the RA3 Apoc has to be powerful in order for the Pulse Cannon Artillery or whatever-it's-called to not be invincible on land.

ImageKlonoa
09-17-2008, 01:05 AM
My List...

10. Visceroids (TS)
9. Flamethrowers (RA)
8. Sentry Drone (ZH)
7. Mutants (CNC3)
6. Mobile Radar Jammer (RA)
5. Mobile Gap Generator (RA)
4. Limpet Drone (FS)
3. Mobile Sensor Array (TS)
2. Theif (RA)
1. Technician (RA)

Avapodnaught
09-19-2008, 01:14 AM
My List...

10. Visceroids (TS)
9. Flamethrowers (RA)
8. Sentry Drone (ZH)
7. Mutants (CNC3)
6. Mobile Radar Jammer (RA)
5. Mobile Gap Generator (RA)
4. Limpet Drone (FS)
3. Mobile Sensor Array (TS)
2. Theif (RA)
1. Technician (RA)
What about Tiberium Wars Visceroids? I thought they were terrible even moreso

SgtRicko
09-19-2008, 05:23 AM
I don't think that the techinician from any of the earlier games count, IK - the guy was meant to suck big time.:p