I was thinking...

[soadfan1]

Many of you know my opinions on ra3, but as it is nearing its release I was thinking.

I do not wish to judge the game post release without playing it, but unlike the other c&c games there is absolutely no way I am going to buy it before I've played it and seen what the post launch support is like.

Would you guys chastize me for downloading it, playing it and putting my thoughts on it after release, in case it somehow offers something completely unexpected?

If then that unlikely situation does occur I would gladly purchase it as I have done every other c&c before it.

I dont see any other way that I can do that without trying it first, I will post my actual full view on it once its out.

Please post intelligently back to this, I dont want the moral idiots coming back with 'OMGZ u Pirate go AWAY' as I know it is a touchy subject but I want to post my views and people will think I am posting them without playing.

I know thats kinda what I did with prejudging it, but these will be the real deal.

So am I going to get grief for doing the sensible thing or am I going to get normal responces when I post my views?

[SirSnake]

What dont they do demos anymore?


I remember the good old days of getting a gaming magazine with a couple of floppy disks on and a dozen good demos to try out! :lol:

[Derek]

This is what demos are for. Pirating is pirating, "trying" a game is no excuse.

[soadfan1]

For some reason the possibility of a demo skipped my mind entirely.

That is a possiblity, the only problem is with a lot of demos they showcase the 'best' parts of a game and not parts of the entire package, naturally.

Are you sure people wouldnt moan if I was judging the game based on the demo though? Because thats basically what you're saying.

As I wish to try and review the whole package without taking that risk.

I will see how things go anyway, see what the demo features.

[Derek]

If you wish to review the whole package you'll have to buy the game. If you want a complete review without buying the game, check sites like IGN or talk to other people who have bought the game. Pirating is stealing no matter how you cut it, don't do it.

[soadfan1]

Well tbh I never ever thought Itlld come to the point where I was to do that with a c&c game, but I dont feel I can risk the purchase, especially at the times we are in.

However I still want to see how it turned out so I can validly back up arguements I make in the future.

Maybe I'll encourage a friend to buy it and install it from that, as the temptation proves strong.

I'd just rather the focus was on my opinions of the game rather than how I got it to find them out.


Although my views on the piracy of games are mixed.

I feel if a development team creates an excellent game and spends time supporting it they deserve it.

However there aren't many of them about these days. Whatever people choose to do so long as it isnt going to bother me I personally could not care less about.

I dont generally pirate games However, of the games I play I own all but one, and that one I used to own but lost.

But I cant take the risk of ra3 turning outbad post release to buy it im afraid, its where I draw the line.

[Derek]

Well tbh I never ever thought Itlld come to the point where I was to do that with a c&c game, but I dont feel I can risk the purchase, especially at the times we are in.

However I still want to see how it turned out so I can validly back up arguements I make in the future.
Then just don't buy it. They way that you properly express that you don't like a game is to not purchase it and not play it. Of course you won't know as much about the game as others as a result, but thats fine. You don't need to argue with people over whether the game is good or not, and you most certainly don't need to pirate the game just for such arguments. If you decide later that you do want it (from reviews, demos, or word of mouth) then you can buy it, maybe even get it cheaper. Pirating a game to "test it" is just an excuse to fully play a game once that you know you probably won't play multiple times without buying it (you can possible rent for such a purpose, btw, though most places don't rent PC games). Review websites exist so you can know how good a game is without having to spend the money yourself. (Though tbh most sites are very bad at reviewing RTS games, since they only play the campaigns)

I feel if a development team creates an excellent game and spends time supporting it they deserve it.
However there aren't many of them about these days.
And if they're bad, you don't play it. Again, pirating is just an excuse to play it anyways. If its so bad, why would you want to pirate it anyways? (the answer is that you actually do want to play it, you just don't want to pay for it)


What I'm pointing out here is that if the game is bad, and you feel sure that it will be bad, then you shouldn't play it at all. You shouldn't buy it, you shouldn't play it. You don't need experience with the game to back yourself up in arguments, and you don't need to test it to confirm your beliefs. If you change your mind later, you can buy it and be well. If you don't, then you haven't spent money and you never wanted to play the game anyways. If you just want to know the story, you can read it on Wikipedia a week after the game is out (the story will suck anyways though), and you will probably be able to find all the terrible FMVs on Youtube. There is no legitimate reason to pirate the game (actually there is one: If the legal copy won't work on your computer for some reason, but that is incredibly unlikely).

[Zardac the Great]

Yeah. Pirating = bad.

And here is something just to make a joke.
http://cristgaming.com/pirate.swf

[truefeel]

Maybe a friend of yours buys it ? I believe you can install it on multiple pc's, and afterwarths remove the authorisation on your pc.

For the rest, I share myself with the people who are against pirating, bad game or not.

[soadfan1]

Well the most likely course of action for me will be to borrow it from a friend. Im sure one of them will get it.

That way I can get an all round good feel of it before I decide if it can be included in my complete c&c collection.

I dont feel for it, but I want to be proved wrong, Im trying to give it a chance here, but not one Im willin to pay 34.99 for.

[truefeel]

Maybe you don't even need to buy it. Like I said, multiple activations on multiple PCs are allowed. I'm not sure though if these multiple PCs need to be in one network, but if not you can get away with it free and legal.

[apple23]

Unfortunately, the RA3 BETA is over, so you missed out on one great way to see how good the game was. I don't know if there will be a demo, but if there is, you should definitely try it. If one of your friends gets the game, play it with him or ask him if you can install the game on your PC. Do anything to get your hands on the game without paying for it except for pirating. Piracy is the whole reason that EA has to introduce this ridiculous DRM software for RA3. Don't contribute to the problem, no matter what your situation is.

[ArmoredBear]

Unfortunately, the RA3 BETA is over, so you missed out on one great way to see how good the game was. I don't know if there will be a demo, but if there is, you should definitely try it. If one of your friends gets the game, play it with him or ask him if you can install the game on your PC. Do anything to get your hands on the game without paying for it except for pirating. Piracy is the whole reason that EA has to introduce this ridiculous DRM software for RA3. Don't contribute to the problem, no matter what your situation is.
Eh, to get in beta though, you had to purchase Kane's Beta Test/RA3 Beta featuring Kane's Wrath, so it's understandable that he did not try it out that way.
Anyway, pirating it is just lame, and it also means you won't be able to try out the best part of it, which is multiplayer. I personally think the game is way better than anything EA's had out in awhile, beta was real enjoyable. Of course, they still have to make good on their promise to balance games and keep them updated, but things look promising, so it's not like you'll be totally going out on a limb by purchasing the game.

[Derek]

Eh, to get in beta though, you had to purchase Kane's Beta Test/RA3 Beta featuring Kane's Wrath, so it's understandable that he did not try it out that way.
Dude, I ended up with three Beta keys. Most websites in the CNC community ended up getting well over ten to be distributed, many of them had various contests. Fileplanet also temporarily allowed any registered member (including non-subscribers, I think) to download it. It was very easy to get in the Beta if you wanted to. You just had to look for extra keys.

[nyarlathotep]

You could also just go to a cyber-shop in your neighbourhood and there try out the game. But on the other hand, I'm one of those few who has nothing against a bit of leeched software, as this is the correct term. You start pirating from the moment you SELL the leeched software. And no, leeching does not hurt a company, look at the 60's & 70's, everybody leeched music from the radio onto a casette, and the music industry made better music then as opposed to the crap we get nowadays.

[apple23]

You could also just go to a cyber-shop in your neighbourhood and there try out the game. But on the other hand, I'm one of those few who has nothing against a bit of leeched software, as this is the correct term. You start pirating from the moment you SELL the leeched software.

No. Just like with thievery, if you in any way obtain or participate in the use of stolen goods, you are stealing. So let's say you "leech" this software. Even if THAT didn't make you a pirate, you are buying from someone who is selling. According to you, you are therefore buying from a pirate, and according to me, that makes you a pirate.

And no, leeching does not hurt a company, look at the 60's & 70's, everybody leeched music from the radio onto a casette, and the music industry made better music then as opposed to the crap we get nowadays.

There are several key factors that play into the effect you are speaking of. However, one point you made is just a blatant lapse of logic. You say that the industry made better music back in the day even though there were pirates back then. So what? That proves nothing. EA is making one of the best CNC RTS games of all time as we speak and pirates aren't stopping them.

You see, Pirates don't stop companys from making good games; pirates inhibit thier sales. Less people buy thier game, less money; it's that simple. If less people buy thier game, they either go under because they didn't make enough money, or they consider DRM to try and stop pirates. Problem is, pirates seem to find a way around every DRM imagineable. I say good luck to pirates finding a way to break RA3's DRM, but I'll bet you someone will, and when they do, RA3's sales will drop drastically due to all the people with attitudes like yours.

[SirSnake]

But on the other hand, I'm one of those few who has nothing against a bit of leeched software, as this is the correct term. You start pirating from the moment you SELL the leeched software. And no, leeching does not hurt a company, look at the 60's & 70's, everybody leeched music from the radio onto a casette, and the music industry made better music then as opposed to the crap we get nowadays.


An interesting view point, but Im not sure how you can actually believe any of that.

Pirating has a dual-fold term when it comes to intellectual and other property. Selling is, yes, one such definition, but so also is reproduction. This is the key point. Most of the best "crack-groups" on the internet do this for no money, simply for the sake of doing it before anyone else.

Typically someone in the industry like this man (http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/oct/18/suspect-charged-in-game-thefts/) is involved with early acquisition of the software, then the crackers crack it, and get it onto the internet before anyone else.
Now whilst the term pirate refers to the actual process and people involved with this reproduction (bare in mind, this counts even though no money is involved) if you then acquire the copy, you are involved with pirating.

So legally, you cant be done for piracy per se, because you havent done that, but you've still broken the law for acquiring pirated goods, whether or not you pay for it. (at least, in the UK, I cant imagine the US or Europe is any different).

So really, this "leeching" as you call it, is still piracy, but simply the end-user's involvement. And its still illegal.

As for piracy not hurting a company, you couldn't be more wrong. The money lost from piracy is huge. The music industry has been viewed conservatively as losing £165 million (http://www.bpi.co.uk/index.asp?Page=piracy/content_file_78.shtml) in the UK alone.
The same is for games, ok so Spore is the obvious example, but thats been downloaded via bit torrent over 170 thousand times (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169913).

Clearly money is being lost. Maybe not all of those people would have bought spore anyway, and maybe some of them will anyway, (and with spore, the biggest issue is the whole DRM business) but the point is, piracy does hurt companies.
Your example of 60's and 70's music is mostly irrelevant. Firstly the society and economy and the industry has changed massively since then. Secondly, the music being "better" is a point of view, and your opinion, whilst valid, does not make it thus.

[Soviet779]

Well OP if you dont have the balls to do something without the approval of the people on this forum you should just give up on life.

[Lazzars]

As for piracy not hurting a company, you couldn't be more wrong. The money lost from piracy is huge. The music industry has been viewed conservatively as losing £165 million (http://www.bpi.co.uk/index.asp?Page=piracy/content_file_78.shtml) in the UK alone.
The same is for games, ok so Spore is the obvious example, but thats been downloaded via bit torrent over 170 thousand times (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169913).

only the record labels loose from music pirating, that may have a knock on effect later but with the big 3 now all fully vertically integrated they get all the profit from what sales they do make so its not hurting them half as much as they say it is. also bands make almost diddley squat out of record sales, they get an advance or get like 5% out of it. they make their money off touring and merch anyway which can't be pirated at all.

people d/l games because their either can't afford them (so the wouldn't have been in the market anyway) or didnt want to bu the game because they didn't think it was worth it and thus only d/l because they want to see what all the fuss is about (see spore and crysis)

i don't think pirating hurts gaming at all, in fact all it does is make distributors more paranoid so they add all sorts of drm that only hurts those legitimate customers they had anyway.

i don't pirate often but i do do it occasionally and not on things i would have bought anyway, how can i hurt an industry i wasn't going to contribute to anyway?

[truefeel]

Well OP if you dont have the balls to do something without the approval of the people on this forum you should just give up on life.

Most irrelevant post. Why don't you go outside, instead of wasting people their time here ?

Back on topic: I think pirating music is rather a matter of comfort. Pirating music is really easy with all the programs out there, Buying music in a normal store requires you to go there, do some searching,... . Programs like itunes are easier and still legal, thus being very popular, but it still requires you to fill in an online sheet with your information. I think that money only plays a very small role concerning music.

I wont deny I myself pirate music. I even pirate movies (I'm not encouraging anybody to follow my example !), but only b/c I'm too lazy to go the nearest record shop (which is almost 10 kilometres). I recently began using itunes more to download music, which I do feel more comfortable with then downloading music illigally. I don't pirate games. I find that a step too far.

[cwsault]

If you're going to break the law, you probably shouldn't be telling people about it on a public forum.

Though I'll add that I think it's a fine idea if you're going to either delete it if you don't like it and buy it if you do. Piracy test-driving holds companies to a higher standard of quality...

[truefeel]

If you're going to break the law, you probably shouldn't be telling people about it on a public forum

We have no secrets from eachother :p.

Though I'll add that I think it's a fine idea if you're going to either delete it if you don't like it and buy it if you do. Piracy test-driving holds companies to a higher standard of quality...

Ah, common. You know that's just an excuse to make the pirating action understandable; nobody will go buy the real game after he downloaded it to so called test it.

[apple23]

only the record labels loose from music pirating, that may have a knock on effect later but with the big 3 now all fully vertically integrated they get all the profit from what sales they do make so its not hurting them half as much as they say it is. also bands make almost diddley squat out of record sales, they get an advance or get like 5% out of it. they make their money off touring and merch anyway which can't be pirated at all.

people d/l games because their either can't afford them (so the wouldn't have been in the market anyway) or didnt want to bu the game because they didn't think it was worth it and thus only d/l because they want to see what all the fuss is about (see spore and crysis)

i don't think pirating hurts gaming at all, in fact all it does is make distributors more paranoid so they add all sorts of drm that only hurts those legitimate customers they had anyway.

i don't pirate often but i do do it occasionally and not on things i would have bought anyway, how can i hurt an industry i wasn't going to contribute to anyway?

The thing is, first off, not everyone pirated it just because it was free. Some would have bought the game if the didn't find it for free, and for the most part, it is those people that hurt the games industry. If a game gets d/l'd, let's say 200,000 times. Now half of those people wouldn't have bought the game if it wasn't free, but half would have, but just preferred to get it free. Lets now say that the game sold 300,000 copies. If it wasn't pirated at all, the game would have sold 400,000 copies. Now, there are 500,000 copies of the game in circulation, but the game sold only 300,000 copies. So basically that is an extra 200,000 copies worth of money that the comany WILL NOT get, but the copy is still out. How on earth is that fair to the game industry?

Here, don't think of piracy as the company losing money, think of it as money the company will never get, and THAT is what hurts the gaming industry.

[Derek]

The thing is, first off, not everyone pirated it just because it was free. Some would have bought the game if the didn't find it for free, and for the most part, it is those people that hurt the games industry. If a game gets d/l'd, let's say 200,000 times. Now half of those people wouldn't have bought the game if it wasn't free, but half would have, but just preferred to get it free. Lets now say that the game sold 300,000 copies. If it wasn't pirated at all, the game would have sold 400,000 copies. Now, there are 500,000 copies of the game in circulation, but the game sold only 300,000 copies. So basically that is an extra 200,000 copies worth of money that the comany WILL NOT get, but the copy is still out. How on earth is that fair to the game industry?

Here, don't think of piracy as the company losing money, think of it as money the company will never get, and THAT is what hurts the gaming industry.
You've got the right idea, but your numbers are off. Lets say that the game sold 500,000 copies, then statistically there were probably about 5,000,000 pirated copies. I'm not making these numbers up. So if 10% of the people who pirated the game would have bought it, that would have doubled the sales (which is a huge difference).

[truefeel]

Amazingly though that companies like EA still are able to get most of the time profits (I'm not saying this to rectify pirating). Imagine what their net profit would be if pirating is non-existing...

Would prices of games also go down if pirating was halted almost completely one day ? with how much approximately ?

[soadfan1]

We have no secrets from eachother :p.



Ah, common. You know that's just an excuse to make the pirating action understandable; nobody will go buy the real game after he downloaded it to so called test it.

Actually I really mean it.

If the game turns out to be somehow really good, I would buy it.

Because I have every other c&c game, if it turned out to be great I would get it to complete the collection.

I do the same with Music, my favourite bands I download from to get advanced listening and then I buy from afterwards. Did that with System of a down and Rammstein cds!

-Rob

[truefeel]

Just take my (or others) advice. You might have a good meaning, but you will get tempted not to buy the game and just play with the pirating one :).

[Derek]

Amazingly though that companies like EA still are able to get most of the time profits (I'm not saying this to rectify pirating). Imagine what their net profit would be if pirating is non-existing...

Would prices of games also go down if pirating was halted almost completely one day ? with how much approximately ?
Console ports have a lot to do with it. Its a lot harder to pirate console games and so as long as a game is released on a console along side PC that helps ensure a profit (assuming the game isn't complete ****, of course). Since the cost of porting is much less than the cost of developing, its worth it to release a PC version even if 90% of copies will be pirated. But if there was no console version, most high-budget PC games would never be made. MMOs and online-only games are an exception, since they can't be pirated.

[truefeel]

I heard though that pirated games for consoles has increased hugely the last several years, even as close to PC games. I'm going to try to find some numbers or quotes about this.

EDIT:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/one-in-five-console-gamers-is-a-pirate-claims-macrovision

[Derek]

I heard though that pirated games for consoles has increased hugely the last several years, even as close to PC games. I'm going to try to find some numbers or quotes about this.

EDIT:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/one-in-five-console-gamers-is-a-pirate-claims-macrovision
Yes it has become more common, but the console makers have taken counter-measures. That article is from 2005 and discusses the XBox and PS2 late in their lives. The 360, PS3, and Wii all have significant online components that Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo emphasize. They regularly release system updates, many of which add new features (thus encouraging people to apply the updates). This gives them control over the consoles, they can lock out modded consoles (which is the primary way to play pirated console games), making them unplayable online (and possibly completely unplayable). PC makers do not have as much control over their platform, people can selectively apply updates acquire software to circumvent security much more easily. Piracy certainly exists on consoles (I know someone who has a DS with pretty much every game pirated onto a flash card that he uses), but its much easier to keep under control.

[truefeel]

Yeh, that makes sence.Ok, I agree.

[SirSnake]

^^^^


hence steam!

It is still possible to pirate and play on steam, but its a lot more fuss to do than a lot of other games.

And yeah those figures are about right, in terms of pirated copies, it still only takes a small number of those people to stop and buy the game for the number of sales to go up proportionally quite a large amount.