Welcome to America: Protests = Terrorism [Archive]

eLDiablo

06-16-2009, 06:34 PM

Article (http://www.blacklistednews.com/news-4524-0-8-8--.html) & Original Source (http://open.salon.com/blog/dennis_loo/2009/06/14/dod_training_manual_protests_are_low-level_terrorism)

The Department of Defense is training all of its personnel in its current Antiterrorism and Force Protection Annual Refresher Training Course that political protest is "low-level terrorism."
The Training introduction reads as follows:
"Anti-terrorism (AT) and Force Protection (FP) are two facets of the Department of Defense (DoD) Mission Assurance Program. It is DoD policy, as found in DoDI 2000.16, that the DoD Components and the DoD elements and personnel shall be protected from terrorist acts through a high pirority, comprehensive, AT program. The DoD's AT program shall be all encompassing using an integrated systems approach."
The first question of the Terrorism Threat Factors, "Knowledge Check 1" section reads as follows:
Which of the following is an example of low-level terrorism activity?
Select the correct answer and then click Check Your Answer.
O Attacking the Pentagon
O IEDs
O Hate crimes against racial groups
O Protests
***
The "correct" answer is Protests.
A copy of this can be found on the last two pages of this pdf. (http://www.aclu.org/images/general/asset_upload_file89_39820.pdf)
The ACLU learned of this training and on June 10, 2009 sent a letter (http://www.aclu.org/images/general/asset_upload_file89_39820.pdf) to the Gail McGinn, Acting Under-Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness, objecting to their training all DoD personnel that the exercise of First Amendment rights constitutes "low-level terrorism."
For those who have worried about a trend (http://dennisloo.blogspot.com/2008/10/naomi-wolf-sounds-alarm.html) - evident, for example, in the USA PATRIOT Act, the universal and ongoing government surveillance of all of Americans' electronic communications that began in February of 2001 (seven months before 9/11 (http://dennisloo.blogspot.com/2007/10/bush-started-warrantless-wiretapping-of.html)), the global war on a tactic (terrorism), therefore making this war unending, the unprecedented pre-emptive arrests of protestors at the 2008 Republican National Convention (http://dennisloo.blogspot.com/2008/09/shock-and-awe-comes-home-to-roost.html) with those protesters being charged as "domestic terrorists," the justifications for torture, pre-emptive wars of aggression, ongoing occupations, American gulags such as Bagram, suspension of habeas corpus, and "prolonged detention (http://open.salon.com/blog/behind_blue_eyes/2009/05/22/obama_proposes_indefinite_preventive_detention_without_trial)" for acts someone might commit, not what they have done, FBI et al infiltration of protest groups and the government's acknowledged use of undercover agents (agents provocateurs (http://dennisloo.blogspot.com/2008/09/shock-and-awe-comes-home-to-roost.html)) in said infiltration, thus giving the government under the rubric of fighting domestic terrorism unrestrained and unsupervisable power to suppress legitimate political activities, the unleashing and justifications for Christian fascists to murder those they do not like (such as the assassination of Dr. George Tiller and the killing at the Holocaust Museum a few days ago) - this news adds further fuel to the fire. (http://dennisloo.blogspot.com/2008/09/window-on-how-public-policy-is-made.html)
These are not items from some famously vilified, non-US dictatorial regime. These are items from the good ole USA, land of the free and home of the brave.
Just how brave are we now? How free are we still? Are we brave enough to be "winter soldiers" and stand up against these fascist moves? Or will we go down in history in infamy, the way the "Good Germans" of the 1930s and 1940s did?

PDF (http://www.aclu.org/images/general/asset_upload_file89_39820.pdf)

Alpha and Omega

06-16-2009, 08:24 PM

I'm pretty sure I said it on election day...

Meet the new leaders, same as the old leaders.

They'll slowly grind down the first line of individual rights protection, the Constitution. Then the second line, lawyers and groups like the ACLU, will hopefully hold and prevent all out tyranny. Because the third line of defense is open rebellion, and no one wants that.

Slapper

06-22-2009, 04:10 PM

And i also said the New Boss is no different than the old boss, the old rich white guys approved a Black Face for their frontman this time around as perhaps the US was close to revolution since the Neocon vaudville act of 8 years came to a close. The funniest BS line ive seen so far was the New Boss saying he wanted to limit Special interests and Lobbyist's, then proceeds to fill his ranks with the top Lobbyists and CEO's of failed Wall Street banks and firms.. Good job, screw up, rape and pillage=and get a comfy Gov job...thats an affirmative LOL@ the sheep for swallowing that gag. I wont even start about the turnaround on the Iraq situation, already been down that road here....

I also said a lot of other things people would rather ignore about their Government and who really runs the show, but noone wants to admit the truth or listen at all. Fearmongering rules the day.

Demopubs, Republicrats, no ****ing difference. They both want your freedoms taken away and this post only shows i have been right all along.

Jesse Ventura already spilled the beans, direct quote: " Politics now is like Pro Wrestling, on camera, i wanna break your face, pound you into next week, behind closed doors, we are all friends, we are all on the same team"..This is on an interview on youtube.

Pay attention class, this is important stuff.

These are not items from some famously vilified, non-US dictatorial regime. These are items from the good ole USA, land of the free and home of the brave.
Just how brave are we now? How free are we still? Are we brave enough to be "winter soldiers" and stand up against these fascist moves? Or will we go down in history in infamy, the way the "Good Germans" of the 1930s and 1940s did?

The way its going down, seems to me the sheep are content in their pens with their remotes and cellphones, text messages, mindless drivel on the boob tube and garage door openers, SUV's and internetz.

There is no hope El, there is no hope. They believe nothing, they slander those who seek truth. Those ugly sheep.

eLDiablo

06-22-2009, 04:12 PM

This is about the response I expected.

Alpha and Omega

06-22-2009, 04:17 PM

This is about the response I expected.

Lol. By that do you mean crazy rants like mine usually are? Or not much of a response?

eLDiablo

06-22-2009, 04:31 PM

I meant as in little to no response.

Remember the post I made about the GOPs 9/11 tribute?
Does anyone still think it's a coincidence that Iran is in a state of civil unrest.

Doh004

06-22-2009, 05:49 PM

Does anyone still think it's a coincidence that Iran is in a state of civil unrest.
What coincidence? You honestly believe the GOP has orchestrated the whole mess over in Iran?

eLDiablo

06-22-2009, 06:02 PM

Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly what I said and meant. :rolleyes:

Zombie Ronald Reagan in the observatory, with a blue pen.

I'll toss you a ****ing bone: Bilderberg

Derek

06-22-2009, 06:09 PM

I'll toss you a ****ing bone: Bilderberg
Oh come on, don't you start this **** too. We already have one retarded conspiracy theorist on these boards, I know you're more intelligent than that.

eLDiablo

06-22-2009, 06:18 PM

Before we delve into name calling derek; they exist, all media is barred from their meetings and their attendees are comprised of the wealthiest and highest ranking people on our planet.

I'm not accusing them of anything, I don't know what goes on at their meetings, but I will forever question the need for their secrecy. Our government wants to monitor each and every one of us; their primary motive is to protect themselves from the citizens because only through us and our complacency with them do they hold power.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you what I believe or don't believe; just that accepting everything one source states is the epitome of an ignorant mind. Always question, compliance fuels agenda.

Doh004

06-22-2009, 06:58 PM

Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly what I said and meant. :rolleyes:

Zombie Ronald Reagan in the observatory, with a blue pen.

I'll toss you a ****ing bone: Bilderberg
My apologies. I guess I misread your post.

Alpha and Omega

06-22-2009, 11:59 PM

I'm not going to sit here and tell you what I believe or don't believe; just that accepting everything one source states is the epitome of an ignorant mind. Always question, compliance fuels agenda.

How ironic that eLDiablo and the Alpha and Omega agree on something.

Slapper

06-23-2009, 02:25 PM

Ill desist on responding with insults to Derek. He believes the US Government acts in his best interests and all American people, anything i post, say, link or investigate and report what i found, he just immediately goes to insults and closes his mind. He wants to call me crazy, let em, he takes the offical word of the Government he supports as 100 per cent truth.

{psst, they lied about Iraq and they sure as **** are lying about 9/11 and the War on Terror}

El, you will forever question the need for secrecy in those meetings, and fair enough. There is no good reason that i can see. The list of people attending is the who's who of politics, religion, corporations and finance and members of the richest familys on the planet dating back to Kings and Queens.....

You said it, why? what?

As for people responding to this, you are right, they dont want to listen to anything that would suggest things are not quite right.

Truthfully, about the only person who publicly calls me out is Derek, a lot of others want information and thoughtful discussions that look at all possiblities, expert opinion and in depth investigation. My pm's tell the story, i wont list who all the pm's are from, they take the chance of Dereks wrath by asking questions or looking at other sources of investigation, hence why they PM me. If people dont support the official Government claims of 9/11 and how it went down, along with questioning the motives of the CFR and groups like it then they are plain crazy conspiracy theorists. It was not long ago people called individuals who talked about the existance of the CFR and Bilderberg meetings conspiracy theorists, and thats a fact.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you what I believe or don't believe; just that accepting everything one source states is the epitome of an ignorant mind.

And ive said the same thing more than once, instead, i get called crazy.

Again, ignorance is bliss and taking official sources word for anything is ridiculous, i only need to point to Iraq as an example of pure Government BS or the 9/11 Commision report that has been absolutely universally rejected by Congressman, and publicly, if you looked into it, you would find several quit the Commission and resigned because they said it was a farce. Senators and experts, scientists and survivors who were there, and the people who were killed that day' family members all said it was the worst coverup and whitewashed investigation they have ever known.

Explosions? what explosions? Rofl, theres over 100 hours of footage and eyewitness testimony available online to disprove the no explosions lie, not 1 damn word in the 9/11 report. right...

Its ridiculous. Willie Rodriguez and John Shroeder will forever be my 2 guys who tell it like it was. I know people, those 2guys are not liars in my book of life.

Ill take the word of people who have nothing to gain by telling the truth and investigating everything over Politicians who get rich from all these problems and Wars and their Wall Street, Defence Contractor friends who get no-bid contracts to clean up their mess.

The phrase NeoCon was not made up by conspiracy theorists.

Ill throw the next bone:

The Project for a New American Century.

Read it. The list of people who wrote that paper are/were Bush's closest people, even his own brother. Anyone with a brain can read that document and draw their own concusions about what the last 9 years were all about. Its in their own words. You can decide for yourself if they had anything to hide.

For posteritys sake, everytime i post now about so called conspiracy issues, ill end it with:

Im not going to sit here and tell you what I believe or don't believe; just that accepting everything one source states is the epitome of an ignorant mind. if you dont mind El, you didnt get insulted for that statement, ill see if it works for me now.

The only retarded idiot i see here is the only one calling names and the only one who refuses to spend 1 minute looking into Bilderberg, CFR, 9/11, the War on Terror and Neo con agenda. If it doesnt come out of Washington, then it must be BS right Derek?

Someone pmed me asking about Alex Jones and his website. He is not a source id bother with, hes definately not all there that boy, but he knows the lies as much as others do. He makes a lot of others in this movement look bad with his crazy way of doing things.

Doh004

06-23-2009, 07:32 PM

Ill desist on responding with insults to Derek. He believes the US Government acts in his best interests and all American people, anything i post, say, link or investigate and report what i found, he just immediately goes to insults and closes his mind. He wants to call me crazy, let em, he takes the offical word of the Government he supports as 100 per cent truth.
{psst, they lied about Iraq and they sure as **** are lying about 9/11 and the War on Terror}
El, you will forever question the need for secrecy in those meetings, and fair enough. There is no good reason that i can see. The list of people attending is the who's who of politics, religion, corporations and finance and members of the richest familys on the planet dating back to Kings and Queens.....
You said it, why? what?
As for people responding to this, you are right, they dont want to listen to anything that would suggest things are not quite right.
Truthfully, about the only person who publicly calls me out is Derek, a lot of others want information and thoughtful discussions that look at all possiblities, expert opinion and in depth investigation. My pm's tell the story, i wont list who all the pm's are from, they take the chance of Dereks wrath by asking questions or looking at other sources of investigation, hence why they PM me. If people dont support the official Government claims of 9/11 and how it went down, along with questioning the motives of the CFR and groups like it then they are plain crazy conspiracy theorists. It was not long ago people called individuals who talked about the existance of the CFR and Bilderberg meetings conspiracy theorists, and thats a fact.
And ive said the same thing more than once, instead, i get called crazy.
Again, ignorance is bliss and taking official sources word for anything is ridiculous, i only need to point to Iraq as an example of pure Government BS or the 9/11 Commision report that has been absolutely universally rejected by Congressman, and publicly, if you looked into it, you would find several quit the Commission and resigned because they said it was a farce. Senators and experts, scientists and survivors who were there, and the people who were killed that day' family members all said it was the worst coverup and whitewashed investigation they have ever known.
Explosions? what explosions? Rofl, theres over 100 hours of footage and eyewitness testimony available online to disprove the no explosions lie, not 1 damn word in the 9/11 report. right...
Its ridiculous. Willie Rodriguez and John Shroeder will forever be my 2 guys who tell it like it was. I know people, those 2guys are not liars in my book of life.
Ill take the word of people who have nothing to gain by telling the truth and investigating everything over Politicians who get rich from all these problems and Wars and their Wall Street, Defence Contractor friends who get no-bid contracts to clean up their mess.
The phrase NeoCon was not made up by conspiracy theorists.
Ill throw the next bone:
The Project for a New American Century.
Read it. The list of people who wrote that paper are/were Bush's closest people, even his own brother. Anyone with a brain can read that document and draw their own concusions about what the last 9 years were all about. Its in their own words. You can decide for yourself if they had anything to hide.
For posteritys sake, everytime i post now about so called conspiracy issues, ill end it with:
Im not going to sit here and tell you what I believe or don't believe; just that accepting everything one source states is the epitome of an ignorant mind. if you dont mind El, you didnt get insulted for that statement, ill see if it works for me now.
The only retarded idiot i see here is the only one calling names and the only one who refuses to spend 1 minute looking into Bilderberg, CFR, 9/11, the War on Terror and Neo con agenda. If it doesnt come out of Washington, then it must be BS right Derek?
Someone pmed me asking about Alex Jones and his website. He is not a source id bother with, hes definately not all there that boy, but he knows the lies as much as others do. He makes a lot of others in this movement look bad with his crazy way of doing things.

Just because someone thinks you're bat**** insane doesn't mean that they believe "100 per cent" everything the government says.

Alpha and Omega

06-24-2009, 12:42 AM

Irony: Conspiracy theorists are often as insane as the bastards they theorize about.

When you want to discuss the legal ramifications of this new training material, and the political and philosophical analysis of it, please be my guest. In the mean time, the world has it's fair share of false prophets and pseudo-intellectual chatter already.

nyarlathotep

06-24-2009, 02:31 AM

Hardly surprises me in a country where there's more guns than people...

SirSnake

06-24-2009, 06:22 AM

I am confused by a base definition of all this.

Now see on this side of the pond at least, I was always lead to believe that "terrorism" was the act of using terror to secure one's goals, hence the name.

Im not sure which bit of protests is using terror? I mean its mostly folk standing/marching with plackards and a catchy (sometimes) chant.

Not really all that scary....

I always knew Americans used a different dictionary but thats taking the piss a little!

Doh004

06-24-2009, 07:04 AM

Hardly surprises me in a country where there's more guns than people...
Oh shut the **** up. I'm not even one of those "neocons" or right-wing nutjobs, but statements like these are ****ing annoying.

NuclearDreams

06-24-2009, 07:44 AM

Hardly surprises me in a country where there's more guns than people...

What does gun ownership have to do with the topic of this thread? :nuts:

Alpha and Omega

06-24-2009, 10:04 AM

What does gun ownership have to do with the topic of this thread? :nuts:

Citizens with guns scare the government, that's what.

Now see on this side of the pond at least, I was always lead to believe that "terrorism" was the act of using terror to secure one's goals, hence the name.

Im not sure which bit of protests is using terror? I mean its mostly folk standing/marching with plackards and a catchy (sometimes) chant.

Not really all that scary....

Exactly. The point is that the federal government now equates civil disobedience with an act of war. To them, picketing and marching down the street with signs makes you a traitor and a terrorist, and therefore worthy of imprisonment with no due process of law. This **** is straight out of Orwell.

eLDiablo

06-24-2009, 10:48 AM

Im not sure which bit of protests is using terror? I mean its mostly folk standing/marching with plackards and a catchy (sometimes) chant.

Not really all that scary....

They're mussing up traffic so all the little Obaaaa-maaaa supporters can't get to work. It's horrific.:rolleyes:

They've also been continuously attempting to brand anyone who doesn't tow the Dem or Rep party lines respectively terrorists.

VA State police report (http://www.blacklistednews.com/news-4589-0-5-5--.html)
Beck claims Holocaust museum shooter 9/11 truther 'hero' (http://www.blacklistednews.com/news-4464-100-5-5--.html)
DHS on guard for 'right-wing' extremists (http://www.blacklistednews.com/news-3899-600-8-8--.html)
FBI spies on tea party protesters (http://www.blacklistednews.com/?news_id=3980)
Missouri declares libertarians terrorists (http://www.blacklistednews.com/news-3601-0-8-8--.html)

edit: and before anyone mentions single sourcing, each one of those articles that has an original source, posts a link to it before the article starts; and links throughout.

Statalyzer

06-24-2009, 05:34 PM

Truthfully, about the only person who publicly calls me out is Derek

If you're the guy who was posting the stuff a couple of months ago about how you can tell from the speed the Twin Towers imploded that they were aided by government-planted devices (and from your long-winded post, it appears that that was you), then you can add my name on the list right next to Derek's.

Alpha and Omega

06-24-2009, 11:40 PM

Here I was thinking we were going to have a discussion about political philosophy and the history of tyranny, and you guys devolve it into the specifics of conspiracies.

All the discussion of who blew up what building and what rich organization controls what system does nothing to alleviate any problem you believe exists.

It's a rule of war: worry about what's in front of you first.

Nilsog

06-25-2009, 07:29 AM

You people need to get jobs and shove your heads in the sand like the rest of us apathetic Americans! Whats wrong? We've got American Idol, Reality TV, washed up celebrities trying to find love... over.. and over... and.. oveeeerrrr...

Don't question the government, we're here to take care of you! Oh.. and if you do question us, we'll label you a terrorist and lock you up forever.

Love you!
XOXO
US Gov't

PS: Don't forget to pay your taxes, we have more big business to bail out.

eLDiablo

06-25-2009, 08:59 AM

It's a rule of war: worry about what's in front of you first.
You mean like people who actually believe in the constitution?

Alpha and Omega

06-25-2009, 10:03 AM

Indeed.

I really don't care whether The Illuminati or the Bilderbergs or any other evil organization is plotting against us. I'm still going to be at a constant state of readiness, I'm still going to train, and I'm still going to work just as hard to protect my community economically and physically as I always have. The Constitution will still apply here, even if I'm the only one still holding it...molon labe.

Even if the conspiracies are false, and the world continues on to peace and stability, I'll still be better off than the guys who are too busy worrying to do anything.

eLDiablo

06-25-2009, 10:25 AM

truefeel

06-25-2009, 10:58 AM

If you're the guy who was posting the stuff a couple of months ago about how you can tell from the speed the Twin Towers imploded that they were aided by government-planted devices (and from your long-winded post, it appears that that was you), then you can add my name on the list right next to Derek's.

Not that I believe in a conspiracy, but imo everybody should stop calling Slapper a retard/maniac/whatever. He is not just making this up from thin air. I did took the effort to look at the conspiracy-believers their points and they made good ones, believe me. It goes from videos which showed abnormal explosions at places way below the point where the WTC tower was hit, they found traces of thermite and so on. Like I said, I'm not believing in the conspiracy theory (although I'm still open for good information), but people should start thinking that the theory the USA goverment is giving, is not right.

Just saying, instead of discarting his points as redicolous posts, try atleast to see if it makes sence. I did, it didn't changed my overall believe about 9/11, but it sure raised questions.

eLDiablo

06-25-2009, 12:57 PM

CIA and the Iranian revolt
GRwUZ-u6KFo

NuclearDreams

06-25-2009, 03:22 PM

Not that I believe in a conspiracy, but imo everybody should stop calling Slapper a retard/maniac/whatever. He is not just making this up from thin air. I did took the effort to look at the conspiracy-believers their points and they made good ones, believe me. It goes from videos which showed abnormal explosions at places way below the point where the WTC tower was hit, they found traces of thermite and so on. Like I said, I'm not believing in the conspiracy theory (although I'm still open for good information), but people should start thinking that the theory the USA goverment is giving, is not right.

Just saying, instead of discarting his points as redicolous posts, try atleast to see if it makes sence. I did, it didn't changed my overall believe about 9/11, but it sure raised questions.

This is for you who still think the World Trade Center was blown up by the government.

Popular Mechanics
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/4278927.html

Statalyzer

06-25-2009, 03:52 PM

This is for you who have no clue of math, physics, recent history, or inductive reasoning, and who think that Kennedy was assassinated by a team of CIA agents, the HIV virus was man-made in order to cause genocide in Africa, the Apollo moon landings never happened, FDR knew that Pearl Harbor would getting attacked, Amelia Earhart was abducted by aliens, Spain blew up the USS Maine, and Jesus was swapped out for a doppleganger at the last minute.

Fixed it for you.

Slapper

06-25-2009, 04:24 PM

You can believe what you want to believe. As we all will anyways, no matter what evidence or argument anyone makes.

I wont even touch the Popular Mechanics one. Its been torn apart time after time by scientists and experts. I got a lttle advice, try looking at evidence from lesser people as opposed to mainstream media and publications. Dr Stephen Jones who does know about physics and math and all the stuff dumb grunts like me cant understand said it was BS and so did hundreds of others, ill just go with what they say as opposed to those who either have reasons to hide the truth or armchair internet civilians who know dick **** about explosives and buildings falling at free fall speed.

As several people here have expressed, if you took the time and actually looked into some of what i and a million plus others say/think, you may find out the same thing we did when we looked at it.

Anyhow, since i have a personal problem with pukes insulting me from relative safety behind their keyboards, ill take it upon myself to never post about conspiracys or anything informative again. You have won. Carry on, we can have more fun without talking BS and insults im sure. So rest easy young lads, i wont fill your eyes with nonsense anymore, your free to enjoy your bubble..

This is for you who have no clue of math, physics, recent history, or inductive reasoning, and who think that Kennedy was assassinated by a team of CIA agents, the HIV virus was man-made in order to cause genocide in Africa, the Apollo moon landings never happened, FDR knew that Pearl Harbor would getting attacked, Amelia Earhart was abducted by aliens, Spain blew up the USS Maine, and Jesus was swapped out for a doppleganger at the last minute.

The only one of these that i would support is Pearl Harbor if it ****ing matters. The fact he cut off Japan from oil and resources and backed them into a corner knowing they would come out swinging about tells the tale. So i guess that means i passed the retard test, i only believe in 1 of those many...yay for me.

truefeel

06-25-2009, 04:32 PM

This is for you who still think the World Trade Center was blown up by the government.

Popular Mechanics
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/4278927.html

Tell me, mister wise guy, where I said to believe in such a conspiracy??

Slapper

06-25-2009, 04:41 PM

True, relax he was talking to me im pretty sure.lol....

If people want to take truth from only mainstream news and publications, fair enough. Popular mech? Its been debunked by a dozens of architects, engineers and physicists, and demo experts, but whos listening anyways right? experts that are not somehow related to the Government or did contract work for them nor did they appear in several panels and commissions to study 9/11. All the ones who back the Gov version are/were on their payroll. Proven, but again, why bother pointing that out, im crazy. remember? lol...

Let em insult me and yell at me, i dont give a **** anymore, im sure i can have input into random topics and discussions without sounding crazy at least 1 time here on this board. Intelligent people can make up their own minds, many already have, who am i to tell them they are crazy?

truefeel

06-25-2009, 04:48 PM

True, relax he was talking to me im pretty sure.lol....

Again, i wont get into it, but people take truth from only mainstream news and publications. Fair enough.

Well, he quoted me, so I'm pretty sure he did ment it to me. Not that I am angry about it, just wanted to point he first had to read before answering.

Also: I readed the first article of popularmechanics and I have to say the points they make are a bit vague. It is not a crystal clear article, unlike articles and videos I have readed/watched about the conspiracy theory, who did do the effort to make things as clear as possible (and again, that does not mean I believe in a conspiracy!!)

Slapper

06-25-2009, 05:05 PM

Also: I readed the first article of popularmechanics and I have to say the points they make are a bit vague. It is not a crystal clear article, unlike articles and videos I have readed/watched about the conspiracy theory, who did do the effort to make things as clear as possible (and again, that does not mean I believe in a conspiracy!!)

Vague? How about they completely ignore Newton's Law and change that law for 1 day...rofl. Ahhh, see? i cant shut up when i see someone only looking at mainstream pubs and news, its ridiculous.

Im aware you dont completely believe the so called conspiracy, but as you said, when you spent a bit of time actually looking, there are things that are not quite right, end of.

The reason this is important? This whole post was started by a new Law that is directly related to this happening. As are 2 Wars and many of you US citizens losing freedoms. Thats why it matters....You had better hang on to that Constitution tightly, its already about toilet paper in the eyes of the Government.

You have to ask yourself this question. If Obama is for change, then why is it all those laws that Bush came up with so many peopole hate and feel threatened by, why has he not rescinded them? Why has he not done about everything he said he would? This is not conspiracy talk , its an honest question.

truefeel

06-25-2009, 05:15 PM

http://www.demotivateus.com/posters/demotivational-poster-peter.jpg

Slapper

06-25-2009, 05:22 PM

lol?

Id push it, i took the red pill man.

One last point. This is personal. I could go on and on about all this stuff for a year. I do have to say, my co-workers, family, friends, children, bosses, about everyone i know these days have listened to some of this information and did their own looking. They about react the same way to it at first, but a good number have said the same as True. Some **** is not right about that whole day, it stinks badly of poo.The funny thing is, i dont know a person in my life who thinks im crazy, unintelligent, or anything of that nature, other than some of you here, i dont recall being insulted for questioning your Governments story or motives. Only a fool does not question..... Its not like they give people with brain malfunctions command of peoples lives and ask them to teach others to kill/heal/save/protect and hand them weapons. In my line of work, you keep all your options open, and you do not believe in coincidence, that can buy you a bodybag..Im 1 rank below an Officer and only because i like NCO land, i remained at this rank because i like being around the guys, not the stuffy's....So, i do take it personal when someone barely able to shave or drink or get pussy properly tells me im crazy because i spent a few years looking into it and found a pile of stink and i question it.

Let the chips fall where they may, i said id stfu about it all and i will. There are MORE important issues to talk about, like all the newest TV and Reality shows and Michael Jackson and Scott Pederson and what color Pres Obama ****s in the latrine ...You know, important **** that numbs the brain..

Doh004

06-25-2009, 07:28 PM

lol?
Id push it, i took the red pill man.
One last point. This is personal. I could go on and on about all this stuff for a year. I do have to say, my co-workers, family, friends, children, bosses, about everyone i know these days have listened to some of this information and did their own looking. They about react the same way to it at first, but a good number have said the same as True. Some **** is not right about that whole day, it stinks badly of poo.The funny thing is, i dont know a person in my life who thinks im crazy, unintelligent, or anything of that nature, other than some of you here, i dont recall being insulted for questioning your Governments story or motives. Only a fool does not question..... Its not like they give people with brain malfunctions command of peoples lives and ask them to teach others to kill/heal/save/protect and hand them weapons. In my line of work, you keep all your options open, and you do not believe in coincidence, that can buy you a bodybag..Im 1 rank below an Officer and only because i like NCO land, i remained at this rank because i like being around the guys, not the stuffy's....So, i do take it personal when someone barely able to shave or drink or get pussy properly tells me im crazy because i spent a few years looking into it and found a pile of stink and i question it.
Let the chips fall where they may, i said id stfu about it all and i will. There are MORE important issues to talk about, like all the newest TV and Reality shows and Michael Jackson and Scott Pederson and what color Pres Obama ****s in the latrine ...You know, important **** that numbs the brain..
Seriously man, shut up already. You aren't helping your case with your incoherent ramblings. You automatically start lumping everyone into the "GOVERNMENT PAWNS" group because they disagree with you.

NuclearDreams

06-25-2009, 07:35 PM

Question
Tell me, mister wise guy, where I said to believe in such a conspiracy??

Answer
I readed the first article of popularmechanics and I have to say the points they make are a bit vague. It is not a crystal clear article, unlike articles and videos I have readed/watched about the conspiracy theory...

Slapper...I'm not sure why, but the word conjecture always pops up when I read your posts.

truefeel

06-25-2009, 11:54 PM

Question

Answer

Do you actually do the effort to read my posts? Lookie look what the last sentence was of that same post:

(and again, that does not mean I believe in a conspiracy!!)Do I need to say more?

Even if I did not mentioned it you shouldn't be so fast to jump on conclusions: I only do the effort to hear both sides their story, which is NOT the same as agreeing with a conspiracy theory.

Alpha and Omega

06-26-2009, 01:28 AM

NuclearDreams

06-26-2009, 03:34 AM

Do you actually do the effort to read my posts? Lookie look what the last sentence was of that same post:

Do I need to say more?

Even if I did not mentioned it you shouldn't be so fast to jump on conclusions: I only do the effort to hear both sides their story, which is NOT the same as agreeing with a conspiracy theory.

Fair enough...but consider the fact that your posts aren't always clearly defined, making it difficult to decipher which side of the topic fence your standing on.

truefeel

06-26-2009, 04:53 AM

Well, you have to read what I say. I said more then once in one post that I don't believe in a conspiracy. Isn't that clear enough then?

And oh yeh, I'm a rather neutral party in this case. Like I said, I don't believe in a conspiracy theory, but if you look at it and see which points the dudes who believe in it, make, then it isn't that a crazy theory either (BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE IN IT). Therefore I find alot of people ignorant over here; not b/c they do or don't believe in it, but b/c they insult slapper without even looking at the other side. It's not a question of believing it, it is rather a matter of UNDERSTANDING someone his opinion about something.

eLDiablo

06-26-2009, 08:39 AM

Once again...there is a real danger in the fact that the federal government is spreading orders to local offices to keep an eye on people who exercise their rights, and we're arguing about an 8 year old event that may or may not be related.

None of us died on 9/11, but a lot of U.S. citizens could be in ACTUAL PHYSICAL AND FINANCIAL DANGER with what originally started this thread.

None of that danger is caused by secret societies, or lumped groups of races, social, or economic classes. The danger is caused by people who are 100% open and public about actions that, for the last 70 years, have been based on unlawful precedents. It wasn't Bush, it wasn't Obama, it was broken before we even started.

It started when people realized that the Constitution only IMPLIED what the federal government could do with it's cash, and so the states became second in line, whereas it was supposed to be the other way around.

Perhaps we should revive Horatio Bunce...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7544114/not-yours-to-give-davy-crockett

And yet instead of fighting back against the government; many of those same people continue to bicker over which theory is correct.

Everyday I become more and more convinced south park had it right: that the "Truth Movement" is one big government fed disinformation operation to distract people from their slowly eroding rights, and frighten them into non-action.

Seriously? When will everyone realize it doesn't ****ing matter what happened on 9/11, nothing would come of your 'proof' anyway. The scum in power in this country all look out for each other and will never attempt to take one another down. Obama has already proven that he's the same politician that nearly every president before him has been, what more do you need? You've already been declared terrorists so you might as well justify the label. Tell the bastards that be that you've have enough.

Watch this Cheney Predacted segment of the Daily Show. http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml?episodeId=231569 (http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml?episodeId=231569)
edit: not to mention the Transparency segment.
(http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml?episodeId=231569)

Derek

06-26-2009, 09:51 AM

Watch this Cheney Predacted segment of the Daily Show. http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml?episodeId=231569 (http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml?episodeId=231569)
edit: not to mention the Transparency segment.
(http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml?episodeId=231569)
Can you tell us what time in the video you're talking about? I don't really want to watch two whole 20 minutes episodes...

Statalyzer

06-26-2009, 10:18 AM

Can you tell us what time in the video you're talking about? I don't really want to watch two whole 20 minutes episodes...

It's one of the tried and true internet debate tactics. Link an article/video that nobody is going to take the time to sit through, then later on come out with "You didn't even look at the evidence in the link I posted, you clearly don't know what you're talking about"

The only one of these that i would support is Pearl Harbor if it ****ing matters. The fact he cut off Japan from oil and resources and backed them into a corner knowing they would come out swinging about tells the tale.

Nearly everyone on the planet knew they would come out swinging, that doesn't mean they knew the time, date, and target.

i only believe in 1 of those many...yay for me.

But many of those would have easier to pull off and keep covered up than the pair of conspiracy theories you do believe in.

Dr Stephen Jones who does know about physics and math and all the stuff dumb grunts like me cant understand said it was BS and so did hundreds of others, ill just go with what they say as opposed to those who either have reasons to hide the truth or armchair internet civilians who know dick **** about explosives and buildings falling at free fall speed.

I put the free fall math out here for everyone to see and it showed nothing fishy. You don't have to know about "buildings" falling at free fall speed, because gravity effects everything equally. If the building falls any slower or faster, it's not at free fall speed.

eLDiablo

06-26-2009, 10:35 AM

The segment ends 5 minutes in. It's not a tried/true internet tactic stat(Ignoring the minor personal attack in lieu of checking the info), it's a ****ing daily show episode; it's also ONE episode, not two.

Jesus Christ :rolleyes:

Statalyzer

06-26-2009, 02:42 PM

Look, unlike Slapper you're being reasonable about this stuff, and I agree with a lot of your points, so if you've something more on this "protesters are being labeled as terrorists" stuff I want to listen to it. But you linked 40 minutes worth of video and now you've already come back with the "you didn't check the info I posted" line.

I didn't substitute a personal attack for checking the info, I just didn't want to scan through that much info to find the relevant stuff and also didn't want to be called out for "ignoring the link" because of it.

eLDiablo

06-26-2009, 03:12 PM

I already posted links to more examples of the "redesignation" of American Citizens as terrorists. here. (http://www.forums.cncden.com/showpost.php?p=405253&postcount=21)

Once again, it's a single 20-minute episode of the daily show stat; and the segment I mentioned goes from 0:01 to the first commercial break (around 5-7 minutes). You're usually a respectable person when it comes to debate so I'll assume you just missed the part in my last post where I stated that.

Slapper

07-06-2009, 01:39 PM

And yet instead of fighting back against the government; many of those same people continue to bicker over which theory is correct.

Everyday I become more and more convinced south park had it right: that the "Truth Movement" is one big government fed disinformation operation to distract people from their slowly eroding rights, and frighten them into non-action.

Seriously? When will everyone realize it doesn't ****ing matter what happened on 9/11, nothing would come of your 'proof' anyway. The scum in power in this country all look out for each other and will never attempt to take one another down. Obama has already proven that he's the same politician that nearly every president before him has been, what more do you need? You've already been declared terrorists so you might as well justify the label. Tell the bastards that be that you've have enough.

Watch this Cheney Predacted segment of the Daily Show. http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml?episodeId=231569
edit: not to mention the Transparency segment.

exactly. that is the problem. As i said, im tired of being insulted because i believe something some of you dont. It'll be the last time i mention it. If people want to only look at 1 side of it, have at er. It only serves to frustrate me even more when only the Gov version is swallowed whole and there are no other possiblitites in a lot of people mind.

1 final comment. I disagree 100 per cent that 9/11 does not matter, these laws about terrorists? That is 100 per cent why its being done as are 2 wars and many other erosions of freedoms not just in the US, but worldwide. Its the big excuse, the Terrorists are going to get you.

They want control, im sure most people can make the link between 9/11 and clamping down. As you said, what can you do about it or what will become of it? short of full scale revolution, absolutely 0. Sad but true. He who holds the guns and cash, makes the rules.

So, this is the last line of written text from me about it, as i say, i would rather enjoy my time here than be insulted for what i believe. What is just as frustrating is that somehow, people equate what i believe in as being related to how intelligent i am, thats a shame. You people could not be more wrong about someone. My real life record speaks for itself.

berlin88

07-09-2009, 01:19 AM

exactly. that is the problem. As i said, im tired of being insulted because i believe something some of you dont. It'll be the last time i mention it. If people want to only look at 1 side of it, have at er. It only serves to frustrate me even more when only the Gov version is swallowed whole and there are no other possiblitites in a lot of people mind.
1 final comment. I disagree 100 per cent that 9/11 does not matter, these laws about terrorists? That is 100 per cent why its being done as are 2 wars and many other erosions of freedoms not just in the US, but worldwide. Its the big excuse, the Terrorists are going to get you.
They want control, im sure most people can make the link between 9/11 and clamping down. As you said, what can you do about it or what will become of it? short of full scale revolution, absolutely 0. Sad but true. He who holds the guns and cash, makes the rules.
So, this is the last line of written text from me about it, as i say, i would rather enjoy my time here than be insulted for what i believe. What is just as frustrating is that somehow, people equate what i believe in as being related to how intelligent i am, thats a shame. You people could not be more wrong about someone. My real life record speaks for itself.

Slapper, I think its safe to say freedom of thought is on the way out in America, along with freedom of choice. Ability or willingness to think also seems to be going out of style. Most people just believe whatever they are told by the lefties and righties, and don't bother to question it.

Small government has been replaced by an ever growing central government, with the sole purpose of expanding its power and authority. The only difference is whether you get a socialist (Karl Marx) style big government or a Napoleon style government.

One claims to be protecting you from evil terrorists, the other claims they are promoting peace or fighting some sort of social injustice. Both claim to be doing whats in your best interests or the nations best interest, but neither is correct and both deprive you of freedom and liberty.

Both sides have brainwashed the people into supporting either the Dems or GOP 100% without question. The Dems use the schools and media to advance their agenda, the GOP uses religion, business and national security. Everyone insists their side is correct and the other side is wrong. No ammount of logic and evidence can really change this. Instead of giving people the tools to make an informed decision, we simply tell them what the answer should be, and hope they don't ask questions.

Freedom and Liberty combined with a strong free market economy made America into the great country it is. However, we have trurned against the very things that got us there. Instead we have mortaged our future to the lobbyists and special interests in Congress. As long as congress claims to be helping you or keeping you safe, no one questions this.

Barry Goldwater and Ron Paul both tried to defend freedom and liberty, and they got laughed at and exiled politically. Goldwater warned about the dangers of the socilial welfare state or government intervention in education, and no one listened. Ron Paul warned us about Iraq jacking up the debt or the federal reserve getting out of control and no one listened.

For the last 25 years Ron Paul has crusaded against the Federal Reserve warning about all the bad things that might happen, yet until this year not one person dared support his crusade. Congress wasn't even brave enough to ask he feds where all the money goes. Worse, they wanted to give the feds new powers, the ability to intervene in the free market whenever they wanted to via regulation. Now after all the economic trouble, 244 members of the House are supporting Pauls idea to investigate the Federal reserve and audit it to see where all the money goes.

Better yet, is the fact 90% of America has no real idea what all these government agencies do. They just listen to whatever BS story the elected officials throw out and go with it, assuming their prefered party knows what its doing. Heck, even members of Congress don't always know whats going on. Its just a bunch of party loyalists making decisions that affect your life and your future.

Whenever you increase the size and power of the government, freedoms and liberties will be lost or diminished. There is a new article on Ron Pauls site thats explains the situation in the EU. Rather interesting article.

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=130

America won't be done in by loss of freedom or liberty, but by economics and the national debt. If Washington is foolish enough to repeat the mistakes made by California, then we are doomed to economic ruin. Proposing billions or trillions in spending when you already have a debt of 11 trillion makes no sense. Even worse, is proposing new spending without actually knowing where the money will come from to pay for it.

nyarlathotep

07-13-2009, 07:11 AM

Hardly surprises me in a country where there's more guns than people...

Got some neg-reps for this comment:

right, since guns caused all this stuff (from a very courageous anonymous)

idiot -eL

Apparently, some people really need to force their brain to work from time to time. So I'll explain...

America, home of the free and the land where everybody has the right to carry guns. And no, I'm not talking about alarmpistols or flareguns, I'm talking about the real thing which spits bullets very fast and very deadly. The ones you get in every calibre, the ones that range from single shot to burst. The ones that kill people.
Now, if those citizens go on the streets to protest, the governement knows well enough there is a possibility some (or all) of them are carrying guns.
So it's rather normal -from a governemental point of view- to adapt terrorism law to protesters.

eLDiablo

07-13-2009, 01:22 PM

The constitution protects the people's right to bear arms; while some may argue this means there should be no controls, most are smart enough to realize that not EVERYBODY should have a gun, because not everybody is a responsible intelligent person.

The people who LEGALLY own weapons, who may or may not have LEGAL concealed carry licenses are only exercising their rights as American citizens. Protesting, freedom of speech is just another right. The entire country was FOUNDED on disagreeing with government, on standing up to oppressive measures. The first thing they teach in political science is that government must work to protect itself from it citizens which is of course, only what it's doing.

That however, goes against everything that defines AMERICA.

You got that rep because you didn't say anything in regards to explaining your opinion you said this.
Hardly surprises me in a country where there's more guns than people...

This, coming from a (and I'm not trying to make this an us v them, just a matter of observation and difference in culture and opinion) European comes off as pretentious and snotty. You may not thumb your nose at America and her gun laws, but that's how the post sounds.

Tomahawk

07-13-2009, 06:52 PM

In response to nyarlathotep: Having armed protesters is something all countries worry about. Saying that its only the case in America because of America's apparent "lax" gun laws is a little absurd. If a protester is going to bring a gun to a protest with the intention of using it, odds are that protester doesn't care about gun laws anyway, meaning all the laws in the world won't stop him from bringing said gun to the protest.

As for the government adapting terrorism laws to include protests, for right or wrong, its main argument is: In a mass demonstration, terrorists have a much easier time completing their task. If there are 200 people protesting in front of, say, a military base, is anyone going to notice the one guy with a bulky jacket who is a suicide bomber?

Alpha and Omega

07-14-2009, 12:10 AM

As for the government adapting terrorism laws to include protests, for right or wrong, its main argument is: In a mass demonstration, terrorists have a much easier time completing their task. If there are 200 people protesting in front of, say, a military base, is anyone going to notice the one guy with a bulky jacket who is a suicide bomber?

The point isn't so much that these laws and notices won't help fight terrorism, or prevent terrorist attacks at protests/demonstrations. It's that when laws designed to fight terrorists are also designed to fight innocent people, perhaps you should just let the terrorists win this one.

Tomahawk

07-14-2009, 10:36 AM

Like I said, I'm not saying the law is right or wrong. For me it depends on how they implement it. If calling protests a "low level terrorist activity" just means that law enforcement are going to watch them more closely, then I'm fine with it. If they try to use it as an excuse to arrest people for no reason at all, then I'm not fine with it. However:

perhaps you should just let the terrorists win this one.

That is a stance I could never support. Letting the terrorists "win one" should never be an option.

Statalyzer

07-14-2009, 10:57 AM

Bill Maher, who's always either a nutcase or a genius, rarely in-between, makes the point that America has this idea that the terrorists win if we have to make any sacrifices to stop them, and so we only come up with solutions that are nice and easy and thus ineffective.

In response to nyarlathotep: Having armed protesters is something all countries worry about. Saying that its only the case in America because of America's apparent "lax" gun laws is a little absurd. If a protester is going to bring a gun to a protest with the intention of using it, odds are that protester doesn't care about gun laws anyway, meaning all the laws in the world won't stop him from bringing said gun to the protest.

First off, a government has to worry about the guys who are staying home from the protest, too, if they are really overstepping their bounds.

Also, you can rephrase that to say "If a criminal is going to bring a gun along while committing a crime with the intention of using it, odds are that criminal doesn't care about gun laws anyway, meaning all the laws in the world won't stop him from using said gun to kill someone"

truefeel

07-14-2009, 11:40 AM

@nyarlathotep: I don't think guns are the real issue over there in the US.I recommend to watch "Bowling for Columbine". You'll see that in Canada you actually can get also almost freely weapons as in the US, yet they don't have the same problems as the US has with its goverment. I think Tomahawk made a good point about weapons: if someone unrightfully likes to use it, he will not care about laws. It is relative easy to get your hands on a gun, legal or illegal, and I think we both know that such things also happened and happens in countries like Belgium.

@Eldiablo: Like common, I thought you were smarter then that to see he was not trying to insult. That definitely was not worth a neg rep. You got brains, use them!

Now back on topic:

Whenever you increase the size and power of the government, freedoms and liberties will be lost or diminished. There is a new article on Ron Pauls site thats explains the situation in the EU. Rather interesting article.

Except that the people in the EU don't care about the "limiting of freedom". Laws are made to protect mankind from himself, not b/c goverments are so caring about the people (quite the opposite infact), but they still need the votes.

I don't know; maybe you guys over there in the US are taking the term "freedom" far too radical. Yes, it can be savely said that there's alot of things that just are not right and which plays behind the curtain, but you also have to wonder if you maybe are not too close on it and only see the bad things. I'm saying this as an outsider and maybe I am wrong b/c I am missing alot details, but I could also be right as a neutral party.

eLDiablo

07-14-2009, 12:11 PM

@Eldiablo: Like common, I thought you were smarter then that to see he was not trying to insult. That definitely was not worth a neg rep. You got brains, use them!

Oh please, it's a one liner. Don't sit there and tell me you got this.
America, home of the free and the land where everybody has the right to carry guns. And no, I'm not talking about alarmpistols or flareguns, I'm talking about the real thing which spits bullets very fast and very deadly. The ones you get in every calibre, the ones that range from single shot to burst. The ones that kill people.
Now, if those citizens go on the streets to protest, the governement knows well enough there is a possibility some (or all) of them are carrying guns.
So it's rather normal -from a governemental point of view- to adapt terrorism law to protesters.from this.

Hardly surprises me in a country where there's more guns than people...:rolleyes:

And that's BESIDE the fact that his post still drips with "everybody who owns a gun is dangerous" ignorance.

Except that the people in the EU don't care about the "limiting of freedom". Laws are made to protect mankind from himself, not b/c goverments are so caring about the people (quite the opposite infact), but they still need the votes.

Laws are made to protect people from each other; These anti-terrorism laws are to protect the government from it's people. They're right to fear the people, anyone who has studied the American Revolution would realize this.

truefeel

07-14-2009, 12:15 PM

I can do that too:

"oh please, it's a one liner. Don't sit there and tell me you this:

right, since guns caused all this stuff (from a very courageous anonymous)

idiot -eL From this:

Hardly surprises me in a country where there's more guns than people... :rolleyes:"

You got a point though: you can't base yourself on that one line and you can't just neg rep someone for the very vague line.

Laws are made to protect people from each other; These anti-terrorism laws are to protect the government from it's people. They're right to fear the people, anyone who has studied the American Revolution would realize this.

I understand your point, but don't forget this American Revolution comes from a time frame where goverments were far less "civilised". I'm not saying you are right or wrong, I'm merely suggesting to look it far more neutral. From my experiences here Americans are quite stubborn and are holding very tight ot their beliefs, Thats good in one way, but it also limits your perspective at the picture.

eLDiablo

07-14-2009, 12:19 PM

You got a point though: you can't base yourself on that one line and you can't just neg rep someone for the very vague line.

I only called him an idiot. If you had more reading comprehension than a dyslexic snapping turtle you'd see that nyar posted two reps.

And who are you to decide what's worth a rep and what's not. That's the whole point of the repping system; that post, in my opinion, was ****.

truefeel

07-14-2009, 12:33 PM

I only called him an idiot. If you had more reading comprehension than a dyslexic snapping turtle you'd see that nyar posted two reps.

And who are you to decide what's worth a rep and what's not. That's the whole point of the repping system; that post, in my opinion, was ****.Oh yeh? Then tell me where's the second one. I know he got more, but he only posted ONE.

You know, I though reasoning with you was doable, but since you bite so hard off from yourself, I'll have to reconsider that. I find alot of posts "****" (and to be frankly, that one of yours fits perfectly in that category), but you don't see me running like "oh my gosh, he offended me or my fellow americans, now we have to retaliate!". Kids of 15 years old do that mate, not someone of your age. You are expected to show a level of respect to the other person at your age, even if he posted something that was insulting (in which that was not the meaning).

eLDiablo

07-14-2009, 12:44 PM

Oh yeh? Then tell me where's the second one. I know he got more, but he only posted ONE.
Got some neg-reps for this comment:
->
right, since guns caused all this stuff (from a very courageous anonymous)

idiot -eL

You know, I though reasoning with you was doable, but since you bite so hard off from yourself, I'll have to reconsider that. I find alot of posts "****" (and to be frankly, that one of yours fits perfectly in that category), but you don't see me running like "oh my gosh, he offended me or my fellow americans, now we have to retaliate!". Kids of 15 years old do that mate, not someone of your age. You are expected to show a level of respect to the other person at your age, even if he posted something that was insulting (in which that was not the meaning).

If you think the rep system on a forum is that life-affirming and important you need to wake the **** up. He got a neg-rep instead of a reply because that brand of ignorance wasn't worth a fully fleshed out reply.

truefeel

07-14-2009, 12:50 PM

Ok, that's my fault. I assumed the "(from a very courageous anonymous)" was referring to you (could had been used the sarcastic way). My apologies.

If you think the rep system on a forum is that life-affirming and important you need to wake the **** up. He got a neg-rep instead of a reply because that brand of ignorance wasn't worth a fully fleshed out reply.So what you are basicilly saying is "its no life, so lets freak out on everything that is bad/insulting/whatever?". No, this is certainly not real life, but you know, and this might just be a personal opinion but whatever, what would stop that from threating the other person a bit more respectfull on a forums? Especially b/c on a forums you can never be sure that the person 100% intepreted the message you ment it.

Point is that nyatar was misunderstood. You putted it in the wrong context. Yes, that is his fault too but know also we life in 2 different countries with 2 completely different languages and 2 different cultures (as far it plays a role in this). Did it really never crossed your mind that he MAYBE didn't ment it like that?

eLDiablo

07-14-2009, 12:53 PM

You also assumed I neg-repped him because oh my gosh, he offended me or my fellow americans, now we have to retaliate!"

truefeel

07-14-2009, 01:00 PM

I assumed nothing. it was an example.

Thx for the neg rep btw if that one was from you. Proves my point that some Americans (and thats no offence to anyone) are just too stubborn to listen.

eLDiablo

07-14-2009, 01:23 PM

Thx for the neg rep btw if that one was from you. Proves my point that some Americans (and thats no offence to anyone) are just too stubborn to listen.

And the truth comes out.

truefeel

07-14-2009, 02:24 PM

You feel like I was talking directly to you? read what's standing in that sentence.

eLDiablo

07-14-2009, 02:39 PM

Lol, please.
Proves my point that some Americans (and thats no offence to anyone) are just too stubborn to listen.Some people are too stubborn to listen; that includes Canadians, Germans, French, Chinese. It's not just a handful of Americans.

Regardless, posting **** like (no offense) means you shouldn't have ****ing said it in the first place. For example...

Some Germans (no offense) are nazis.

It's an ignorant implication that is both redundant (as there are non-german nazis as well) and indicative of a persons likely bigoted feelings. All people of all cultures are equally susceptable to their own short-comings as human beings. If you didn't have some underlying prejudice you wouldn't have said American would you have?

truefeel

07-14-2009, 04:11 PM

Wow, someone really didn't get the message:dismay:. I wasn't being racistic or anything at all. Neither was it an insult, it was just a complain that some people just don't want to listen what other have to tell and from what I experienced SOME (noticed it??? that 4 letter word. S O M E. By my recall that does not point at generalisation) americans are like that. THAT was not a prejudice my friend. If you use that word then be sure you know the meaning of it.

You know what: break. You are clearly not understanding it and it would be a waste of both our times to continue. You are clearly just picking random words in my post, instead of reading the full sentence, to please yourself. It aint gonna work.

Thumper

07-14-2009, 04:23 PM

thats Eldiablo for you. when he doesnt get the point or doesnt care he just chooses something miniscule to rant on.

Alpha and Omega

07-14-2009, 05:52 PM

I understand your point, but don't forget this American Revolution comes from a time frame where goverments were far less "civilised". I'm not saying you are right or wrong, I'm merely suggesting to look it far more neutral.

Governments are far less "civilised" now than they have ever been.

At one point in time government was a function of natural human survival and the need to gather formally to devise rules and limits to the law.

Now most of them only exist to make sure that certain people get what they think they deserve, whoever that may be at the time.

Except that the people in the EU don't care about the "limiting of freedom".

Painfully obvious.

Yes, it can be savely said that there's alot of things that just are not right and which plays behind the curtain, but you also have to wonder if you maybe are not too close on it and only see the bad things. I'm saying this as an outsider and maybe I am wrong b/c I am missing alot details, but I could also be right as a neutral party.

I'm no insider, but I have experience working with politicians from my state, and even when I disagree with them politically they still manage to work things out to work best for the people of our state and I'm proud of that.

I'm sure that leaders in Washington are similar to the Senators and Governors of Oklahoma, but they are distant from us, and rarely know what's in our best interest as a state. Whether they are actually beyond our trust I can't say, I'm just pointing out that laws made in one area that affect another area are rarely effective, well planned, or followed.

eLDiablo

07-14-2009, 05:52 PM

It aint gonna work.

Except it did; because you replied.

I love this forum, the people on this forum frankly because there are a handful of them that believe themselves intelligent. Typically they are quick to point out things that are supposed to be obvious despite plain text delivery and few to no contextual clues. Sarcasm, long-winded statements on political science hidden beneath a not-so-subtly crafted snide remark etc...

and yet, you all continue to snap at every piece of bait I put into the water.

I ****ing troll you and you just don't get it. It's awesome, it's entertaining; please don't change, it would break my heart.

truefeel

07-14-2009, 06:10 PM

Except it did; because you replied.Oh so this is a game for you? I don't need to say more.

I love this forum, the people on this forum frankly because there are a handful of them that believe themselves intelligent. Typically they are quick to point out things that are supposed to be obvious despite plain text delivery and few to no contextual clues. Sarcasm, long-winded statements on political science hidden beneath a not-so-subtly crafted snide remark etc...
So in other words, you are just saying things now to make yourself look intelligent. well done. What are you gonna say next? That you "did a good job even if you said so?"

and yet, you all continue to snap at every piece of bait I put into the water.

I ****ing troll you and you just don't get it. It's awesome, it's entertaining; please don't change, it would break my heart.Oh, but I did got the picture. The problem I laugh with such behaviour from a person of 23. It's in some way kinda pitty that you find amusement in such things; generally laughable though.

Oh, and I don't snap. Been there a long time ago and being calm seems a better approach. You will need to try much much harder to let me snap;).

So lets continue your little game then!

Governments are far less "civilised" now than they have ever been.

At one point in time government was a function of natural human survival and the need to gather formally to devise rules and limits to the law.

Now most of them only exist to make sure that certain people get what they think they deserve, whoever that may be at the time.

Depends from country to country. In Belgium we have quite an amount of parties and almost all are in competition with eachother. They have no choice but to forfill some of the wishes of the people, if they want votes. I know the situation is quite different in the usa, with only 2 big parties over there. Maybe they are civilised in a manner: in old times the goverment would push its will through with (military) force. If your goverment really is hanging out the bad guy, they do it on a very subtle way.

I'm no insider, but I have experience working with politicians from my state, and even when I disagree with them politically they still manage to work things out to work best for the people of our state and I'm proud of that.

Thats cool. Should be a big difference then with California.

I'm sure that leaders in Washington are similar to the Senators and Governors of Oklahoma, but they are distant from us, and rarely know what's in our best interest as a state. Whether they are actually beyond our trust I can't say, I'm just pointing out that laws made in one area that affect another area are rarely effective, well planned, or followed.

A centralised government has its advantages though. It should be able to tackle things like economic crissises concerning big companies and you got of course less argueing inbetween the parties. A few years ago we had for about 8 months no government due the parties just were fighting about in my eyes small things.

eLDiablo

07-14-2009, 06:36 PM

Oh so this is a game for you? I don't need to say more. Why does the reply continue then?

So in other words, you are just saying things now to make yourself look intelligent. well done. What are you gonna say next? That you "did a good job even if you said so?" In other words I'm saying you don't know what I'm saying.

Oh, but I did got the picture. The problem I laugh with such behaviour from a person of 23. It's in some way kinda pitty that you find amusement in such things; generally laughable though. Oh so now I'm beneath you? You feel pity for me? Yeah...

Oh, and I don't snap. Been there a long time ago and being calm seems a better approach. You will need to try much much harder to let me snap;). I don't care if you snap or not, because frankly, short of pulling a BILLY MAYS ALL CAPS, we'll never really know if you snap or not. One can easily choose to snap offline and comeback with a cooler head later.

So lets continue your little game then!

Indeed.

truefeel

07-14-2009, 06:41 PM

Why does the reply continue then?I'm continueing on a lower level, more adapted to yours.

In other words I'm saying you don't know what I'm saying.Oh sure! I completely don't understand basic English. Oops, did you noticed it??

Oh so now I'm beneath you? You feel pity for me? Yeah...Yeah, you like that huh? right in the **** !!

I don't care if you snap or not, because frankly, short of pulling a BILLY MAYS ALL CAPS, we'll never really know if you snap or not. One can easily choose to snap offline and comeback with a cooler head later.Nah, if I would snap you would notice it.

Indeed.It's on, niggah !!

eLDiablo

07-14-2009, 09:10 PM

I'm continueing on a lower level, more adapted to yours. Fnar! Fnar! Benjamin Franklin once said "Stupidity is like a potato; bananabread sugar-pudding desu desu desu!"

Oh sure! I completely don't understand basic English. Oops, did you noticed it?? What is this I don't even

Yeah, you like that huh? right in the **** !!You would hit someone in the ****.

Nah, if I would snap you would notice it. Sure, sure if x then y. Classic bull****, you know I'm right.

It's on, niggah !! I think you over shot that lower level you claimed to stoop to.

truefeel

07-15-2009, 03:25 AM

Fnar! Fnar! Benjamin Franklin once said "Stupidity is like a potato; bananabread sugar-pudding desu desu desu!"

What is this I don't even
You would hit someone in the ****.
Sure, sure if x then y. Classic bull****, you know I'm right.

I think you over shot that lower level you claimed to stoop to.

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/2009/06/cat-talk-to-the-hand.jpg

Avapodnaught

07-23-2009, 10:21 AM

I heard a Senator was being laughed at while on the radio...
I laughed too when I finally understood why, and it was because he was negligent about what he was saying to his audience
And soon afterwards, I listened in on what some people in power think about limiting ability of the Bill of Rights, followed with a good description of why those rights were given in the first place...

I've come to the conclusion that something went wrong in the Separation of Powers back when our government was being written a second time, because the loose terms found in many articles written back then have been twisted by so many people
I only say this because I actually believe that there was a much more definitive government back then, which allowed for good changes... and now look where we are today with all the chaos that should not be... with hard working Americans trying to earn a living have as much chance as non tax payers and are still restricted by rules... that this corrupt system had the chance to create