Team Fortress 2 Rip Off [Archive] - Den Games Network Forums

eLDiablo

07-05-2009, 08:47 PM

Team Fortress 2 is based off of the original Team Fortress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_Fortress) a mod for Quake.

Class-Based Team-Structured gameplay is not an innovation. The art style is similar, likely because of the popularity of the style. Realistic graphics have a place and combining an Anime Style with the TF2 cell-shaded look is going to be far more visually pleasing. The pacing and action of the gameplay derives from Quake itself.

So IMO: It doesn't ****ing matter.
I'd be more concerned with what games like Halo and Lego: (Insert Franchise) are doing.

kyle

07-05-2009, 09:47 PM

Ripoff? **** that. Thats like saying Unreal is a ripoff of Quake, or Age of Empires is a ripoff of Civilization, or Gears of War is a ripoff of Halo. I could go in...
Honestly it looks more like World of Padman to me, way more so than TF2. So all you TF2 lovers, go cry me a river you ******. Steam can stick up for itself. But what about the indie guys? Go stick it up for the little man.

All in all I liked the vid. If it didn't cost money I might play it. The gun mechanics look right somehow...

EDIT@Diablo: Or another example, how Lego Star Wars is a Ripoff of Star Wars... :gnarly:

EDITEDIT: Or how Diablo is a ripoff of Rolk. ZING!

Thumper

07-05-2009, 10:01 PM

dude your way off. take a chill pill as well

kyle

07-05-2009, 10:14 PM

Doh004

07-05-2009, 10:39 PM

Looks like a ****ty anime shooter that comes around every once in a while.

Also, El: I liked Lego Star Wars :shy:

Derek

07-06-2009, 12:35 AM

Oh huff it, Thumpie. I'm coo'. :P

Nah, I just don't see the connection anywhere. Like I said, it looks more like World of Padman (Way more like) than Team Fortress 2.
The miniature scale, action figures, cartoony looks. Hell, all those are in Padman (And as for the cartoon look, its more akin to Padman then it is Fortress)
Where shall we start? Identical sniper, identical soldier, identical demoman (even has the same grenade), identical scout, identical heavy, identical invuln. The only thing that doesn't match up is the addition of some class using some kind of assault rifle.

This isn't just another cartoon shooter. Its a blatant ripoff. I'm only surprised that it took so long though.

Thumper

07-06-2009, 03:47 AM

Oh huff it, Thumpie. I'm coo'. :P

actually that was meant for eldiablo. all his posts seem to be angry.

and i said that for exactly what derek just said.

07-06-2009, 05:11 AM

Where shall we start? Identical sniper, identical soldier, identical demoman (even has the same grenade), identical scout, identical heavy, identical invuln. The only thing that doesn't match up is the addition of some class using some kind of assault rifle.

This isn't just another cartoon shooter. Its a blatant ripoff. I'm only surprised that it took so long though.
Yeah, somehow they forgot the engineer class. I found the video cool and it would be a good laugh if it weren't for it being a game (therefore too much of a ripoff tbh). It doesn't matter much though. It won't scratch TF2 in the slightest imo. Apart from the "i-can-kill-a-mile-away" melee weapons:freek: and the (suposedly random:hmm:) critical strikes, TF2 is the most perfect shooter i've ever seen.

eLDiablo

07-06-2009, 09:28 AM

Also, El: I liked Lego Star Wars :shy:
I didn't say Leg star wars was bad. Lego: Indy, Lego: Rock band... where will it stop?

To quote a funnier man than I... "Stickle Bricks Babylon 5? (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/123-LEGO-Indy)"

actually that was meant for eldiablo. all his posts seem to be angry.
That's all on how you read it. Instead of telling me to take a "chill pill" why don't you take on my points.

Derek

07-06-2009, 09:49 AM

Apart from the "i-can-kill-a-mile-away" melee weapons:freek:
I'm telling you, its lag. Playing on a US server from Portugal is going to give you terrible latency (iirc, it was around 200). Now, how far can a scout run in 200ms? Thats how much further away he can be to hit you with his bat, because on his screen, hes right on top of you.

Statalyzer

07-06-2009, 02:02 PM

lol cs is garbage. nothing special about it.

Gotta love how cover is basically worthless against those magic bullets though... :\

Daishi

07-06-2009, 02:08 PM

It doesn't matter much though. It won't scratch TF2 in the slightest imo. Apart from the "i-can-kill-a-mile-away" melee weapons:freek: and the (suposedly random:hmm:) critical strikes, TF2 is the most perfect shooter i've ever seen.

Any shooter with such a low skill ceiling and an emphasis on teamplay would be better off as an RTS.

And this is coming from a competitive TF2 player.

Slapper

07-06-2009, 02:08 PM

Toxic10x

07-06-2009, 04:09 PM

It's definitely a ripoff of the successful TF formula. The classes are nearly identical, as pointed out. I do however find it surprising that no one mentioned how this is clearly ripping off Toy Story (which I assume to be the first widely-popular toys-come-to-life-in-kid's-bedroom story. Correct me if I'm wrong).

Anyway, the art style seems a little disjointed to me. We have robots VS anime girls? That doesn't make sense. GI Joes VS Barbies would make sense, or Robots VS Aliens, but this is just weird. Also I agree with the notion that it needs to be cel shaded, or at least much more vibrant.

Thumper

07-06-2009, 05:09 PM

yeah i think the art direction went something like this:

guys, copy everything about tf2 but make it look different enough that we cant get sued, oh and throw a bunch of anime style garbage in there while your at it. ok good.

oh, i watched it again, this time the entire thing. it DOES look like a cross between tf2 and cs.
remember that tf2 map called rats or something? where the players are in a kitchen and are about the size of toys/rats?

also, if these are supposed to be toys, they look like crap. im guessing the game designer didnt graduate from art and design school.

eLDiablo

07-06-2009, 05:12 PM

And TF2 stole it from Pixar...

Thumper

07-06-2009, 05:26 PM

i dont remember a heavy, a demo man and a sniper in any pixar movie?

you gunna say all the level design was stolen from james bond movies too?

eLDiablo

07-06-2009, 05:29 PM

yeah i think the art direction went something like this:

guys, copy everything about tf2 but make it look different enough that we cant get sued, oh and throw a bunch of anime style garbage in there while your at it. ok good.

You said it yourself; Art Direction.

Everything that makes Tf2 the game that it is; ie the class system is called Mechanics/Design.

Regardless; I never said it didn't look like a Rip-off, just that it didn't matter. So why don't you go take a chill pill.

Derek

07-06-2009, 05:44 PM

(which I assume to be the first widely-popular toys-come-to-life-in-kid's-bedroom story. Correct me if I'm wrong)
Indian in the Cupboard?

remember that tf2 map called rats or something? where the players are in a kitchen and are about the size of toys/rats?
The map is called ToyFort.

Thumper

07-06-2009, 05:47 PM

@ Derek: no its not called toyfort. its called rats or something. i think your thinking of the wrong one.

@ ElDiablo: No **** tf2 was designed. Also, your very confrontational arent you? (rhetorical question)

Derek

07-06-2009, 05:56 PM

@ Derek: no its not called toyfort. its called rats or something. i think your thinking of the wrong one.
Does it look like this? Because this is ToyFort.

http://i29.tinypic.com/14oay69.jpg

eLDiablo

07-06-2009, 06:04 PM

@ ElDiablo: No **** tf2 was designed. Also, your very confrontational arent you? (rhetorical question)

When arguing on the internet; you should actually know what you are talking about.
edit: what's wrong with being confrontational?

Thumper

07-06-2009, 06:50 PM

your arguments dont even make sense anymore eldiablo.

anyhow, no thats not it derek. it has a kitchen and a cuboard and a giant refridgerator. if its the same map in different areas i dont know.

the map is definatly called Rats.

eLDiablo

07-06-2009, 06:56 PM

Yeah.

So lets go over this one more time.

1: You accuse the Art team for this game of stealing from Tf2
2: I note that the art of Tf2 is an old concept
3: You claim to not recall any Pixar movies with Demomen, Pyros... etc
4: I point out the difference between a games ART and a games MECHANICS
5: You **** all over the keyboard and accuse me of being confrontational
6: ???
7: Profit

Should I go over it again? Or will you just continue your butthurt faggotry?

Thumper

07-06-2009, 07:02 PM

the point is not about the art so much. its about the fact that the art AND the classes are way to similar.
play tf2 and then look at this video. then you can argue.

and your right. your not confrontational at all. and real mature, as soon as you get upset you call someone a faggot. the internet culture has taught you well.

eLDiablo

07-06-2009, 07:35 PM

LOL.

Is your reading comprehension that bad? Fine. Let me take this one piece by piece.

the point is not about the art so much. its about the fact that the art AND the classes are way to similar.
That's a better way to get you point across; as I have already proven by quoting you, you've done a poor job of that so far.

play tf2 and then look at this video. then you can argue.
Assuming my opinion is different than yours because I haven't played the game... that's well, that's retarded. I've played the game and even if I did actually disagree (holy **** that's right I NEVER DISAGREED WITH YOU) with you that it's a ripoff, whether I've played it or not doesn't matter. Because this is a trailer. I haven't nor have you played THIS game so how can you state it's a rip off?

and your right. your not confrontational at all.
Didn't say I wasn't.

and real mature
I know I don't need to find quotes from you to prove the pot v kettle adage here; and once again, didn't say I wasn't.

as soon as you get upset
Here's where I take offense. I'm not upset at all. Would you like a picture of my face while I was making all of these posts? here-> :|

you call someone a faggot.
I didn't call you a faggot. Your actions did that.

the internet culture has taught you well.
Quippy! You're avatar is that of an OLD image meme where in there is a rabbit with a pancake on it's head sporting a caption of "I have no idea what the hell you are taking about so here's a bunny with a pancake on its head."

Thumper

07-06-2009, 07:45 PM

/done

07-06-2009, 08:37 PM

I'm telling you, its lag. Playing on a US server from Portugal is going to give you terrible latency (iirc, it was around 200). Now, how far can a scout run in 200ms? Thats how much further away he can be to hit you with his bat, because on his screen, hes right on top of you.
Sure i understand what you mean here.:) It makes sense, really, and it may happen a few times with scouts, but tbh i figured it too many times with classes like Demo, Sniper and Engineer (which aren't the slowest ones, i know) and with lags of 30 (i know 2 portuguese servers so far) and it still happens. At least it does make a substancial difference from CS and Quake where you needed to be really "in range". It doesn't ruin the game. It's more an annoyance than a real problem. The critical damage system annoys me a lot more. Question is, the positive points are too many in this game.:D

Any shooter with such a low skill ceiling and an emphasis on teamplay would be better off as an RTS.

And this is coming from a competitive TF2 player.
Shooting skill takes too much of role in this to be as you say. I like a clear distinction from one genre to the other. We talked about this before remember?! :)

starscream007

07-07-2009, 09:23 AM

lol cs is garbage. nothing special about it. a

Gotta love how cover is basically worthless against those magic bullets though... :\

I havent played Counter-Strike in months because I no longer enjoy it. In addition I can play bomb defusal on either CoD 4 or on World at War with additional game modes.

Toxic10x

07-07-2009, 11:29 AM

Indian in the Cupboard?

Hmm yeah good call. I've never seen it in it, really, but can I safely assume the Indian is a toy?

One thing people haven't yet pointed out is that the music and editing in the vid were pretty reminiscent of the style used in the "Meet The Team" series - just not as well done.

Derek

07-07-2009, 12:37 PM

One thing people haven't yet pointed out is that the music and editing in the vid were pretty reminiscent of the style used in the "Meet The Team" series - just not as well done.
More specifically, it seems to strongly resemble this early trailer (a lot of stuff changed between this trailer and release):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7ozG-YNLNg

Statalyzer

07-07-2009, 02:51 PM

Shooting skill takes too much of role in this to be as you say.

When it comes down to it, all FPS's are primarily about your reflexes and your aim detail.

Toxic10x

07-07-2009, 03:13 PM

Well some can benefit a great deal from strategy as well. Unreal Tournament is, as you describe, a "twitch" shooter. If you can whip the mouse over the the other guy's head faster than everyone else, you will be the best.
There are plenty of shooters, however, where controlling important pieces of equipment (weapons, vehicles), using cover wisely, being stealthy, etc, will all work very much to your advantage.

Daishi

07-08-2009, 06:00 AM

Shooting skill takes too much of role in this to be as you say. I like a clear distinction from one genre to the other. We talked about this before remember?! :)

I still feel the role of good aim is nothing compared to any other twitch shooter ever released, like say Quake 3 or UT. The only classes that really reward twitch aiming are sniper, spy, and scout, with the explosive classes rarely having trouble aiming over any distance and instead relying on tactics and sometimes acrobatics to give themselves the edge. Playing the other four classes effectively is as simple as maintaining a good position and hopping around, double-taking like mad when you're getting into a new one. I equate this simplicity to that of RTS micro skills. The main challenge of TF2 is synergistic, it's not based so much on shooting and dodging as much as the ability to mesh together flawlessly like a well-oiled machine.

Take coL.'s starting soldier REP. The guy sucks at TF2 but he's got such good sync with the other soldier, Reptile, that they have kept him on the roster ever since they dominated the world as the original Pandemic team. Your entire pub Dustbowl team can suck but if you've got good coordination and strategy and know how to lock down a chokepoint and push from all sides together, everything will break against you. The only class that can really carry a team by itself with skill alone is the Sniper, since the pro spy relies on distractions and the scout gets much weaker when his enemies stick together.

Naturally, if you keep the number of players capped at 12 or 14 and stick with mobility-based 5cp push maps, individual skill plays a much greater role in turning the tide, but anything larger or more static turns into horde vs horde.

07-08-2009, 07:14 AM

You point things well. But even Demo, Engineer, Heavy and Soldier do require aim to perform well. Maybe not exactly aim in the way we really use it but they do. Stickies and grenades must be fired with precision to achieve the intended goal. Same goes to rockets. Engineer require fast aim to make use of his personal guns to deal with closing enemies as do need the Heavy to efficiently justify the munition spent (assuming he is not camping a dispenser... :D).
Keeps being a shooter, and having it making use of tactics and teamplay to a new level, just makes it even better. Maybe one of the closer to RTS, just not an RTS.

Derek

07-08-2009, 09:51 AM

Its true, TF2 is mostly about teamwork. A team of average players working closely together will rollover a team of highly skilled players who aren't working together at all. This was an intentional design decision by Valve, thats why most guns have a wide spread and can't headshot.

Thumper

07-08-2009, 11:05 AM

shouldnt that be how all shooters should be?

eLDiablo

07-08-2009, 11:37 AM

shouldnt that be how all shooters should be?

Wasn't this thread about all shooters NOT being the same?

Derek

07-08-2009, 01:42 PM

shouldnt that be how all shooters should be?
Definitely not. Then there would be no shooters depending on accuracy or having any semblance of realism.

Thumper

07-08-2009, 02:14 PM

dude, i meant work together as a team should be better than going solo.

Daishi

07-08-2009, 06:08 PM

dude, i meant work together as a team should be better than going solo.

All multiplayer shooters invariably give the advantage to the bigger team. If you're in a duel with someone of equal skill, a second guy will have no problem backing off and taking free shots at you as you dodge the first guy's projectiles. You'll need lots of skill and a good plan to overwhelm numbers disadvantages without retreating.

With TF2, however, the classes are generally specialized to the point of dumbing them down in order to force coordination rather than imply it to supplement individual skill. Every class is master of certain situations, and each one has glaring weaknesses that are covered by another class's strengths. Combined with the extremely slow movement speeds of all 9 classes and the weakness of all classes at long range, the game is overall more about strategy, combinations and positioning than about twitch skill.

TF2 is still the exemplar of tactical shooters, but slow specialized units are key features of RTT and microRTS titles as well. I guess that doesn't justify my complaints, but I would prefer the game if the 6 dumber classes had much more more complexity to them. Way too many of the unlocks only made these classes simpler to play and covered strategic weaknesses rather than acting as advanced, complex versions of the original weapons. If all classes ran 10% faster... man this game would be awesome.