Why do you hate Yuri?

[Teron]

Came to the forums, read threads. One was "Most overpowered non-Yuri Units", where one poster was just listing Yuri units in the manner:
Boomer... oh yeah, Yuri. Master Mind.. oh yeah, Yuri... and so on.

The other was someone asking why even continue playing if you got pitted against the Psychic Army in a quickmatch.

Why the general opposition against the Psychic Army?

Is it unbeatable? I don't think it is.

Overpowered? Perhaps. Then again, when we released a new race in LSN, everybody complained it being overpowered, although the win percentages against Greys begun to rise as the people learned how to play against them. The issue might be the same here: Yuri plays completely different from Allies and Soviets.

Annoying? Sure, if you hate dealing with Mind Control.

So, which one or which ones of the reasons it is?

[SirSnake]

yuri is overpowered. if you;ve ever played the game (i assume you have) you would know that.


why is that a complaint? because its an RTS! its meant to be balanced. im sure there will be someone who will complain far more coherently and specifically against yuri, but from the general gaming rule, things are meant to be fair and balanaced, or its just cak.

which is a shame, because RA2 is a good game, but over-powered one-side in any RTS.... whats the point?
its like those stupid Deus Ex servers which give full expo points and augmentations.

if it was just hard to beat, like say, a single tactic for one side (GGI BF for example) its just ONE tactic thats hard to beat, doesnt make it unfair, because it needs some skill to pull off well anyway.


the worst thing about yuri, is even a vagualy good player can beat a good player if they know what they are doing. that not fair, thats not hard, thats stupid.

[Teron]

Care to specify the problem?

[SirSnake]

as i say, others will do this with greater detail


but breifly, lets see.


naval map, boomer rush....
UFOs shoot, shut-down base AND AA
master-mind should die sooner if over-doses on mind-control


etc

his basic units are crap, but he can soon get out over-powered units. just wait till someone who bothers playing anymore replies, (i never got in YR anyway, just RA2)

edit: in the meantime, read the other threads, there are enough on here that complain about him
also, try playing against him against someone you KNOW is worse than you. if that person has even a vague grasp of RTS, then he will beat you

[Madge]

To me, Yuri is almost overpowered without mind control. :eek: Just because of the way you can use some of his units in different combos.

[Teron]

Snake: Just to the argument of Floating Discs acting as AA, Yuri doesn't have infantry- or navy-based Anti-Air at all, all mobile AA Yuri has are Gatt Tanks and Discs. Discs are also Yuri's only air unit, so they need to be multi-purpose.
As for Boomers, they combine the basic (Con yard level) Sea combat unit and the Naval Siege (Lab level). So, technically Boomers should belong to Lab level, seeing neither Allies or Soviets have access to Siege Navy before Lab (Well, Allies have Destroyers, but they are what they are). That would be ok with me as long as Yuri got other Naval units. Right now, he's got only a fast-tech Siege unit that is expensive like it's allied and Soviet counterparts. Boomers need to come fast because the Psychic Army just doesn't have any other kind of navy.

Madge: Is it a sin that Yuri's units work well togheter?

[Blue Aurora]

Nothing is overpowered until a patch arrives or until you create a strategy to beat'em! ;)

[EliteGi]

Yuri isn't overpowered, it's easy to rape a yuri player in qm, ive won many, many more times than i've lost against yuri players... i just don't see why people find it hard to counter?!!

[Teron]

Beat what? Beat Psychics or beat whiners who dislike mind control?

[Fat Freaky Man Jim]

how do you beat mind control with soviets? the soviet tanks all get mind controlled, their drones get chopped up with gatlins and gatlins make v3s almost useless

[Teron]

Guess what, tech up and deploy some choppers. Gatts can't shoot down cannonballs.

[Fat Freaky Man Jim]

choppers get mind controlled when on the ground, choppers get shot down by ufos, choppers take too damn long to deploy

[Teron]

*Takes look at Soviet armoury*
Damn... As it stands, the Mind Control technology was originally a part of the Soviet arsenal and thus they haven't been modified like Allies to confront mind control.
One relatively good bet would be War Miners, Drones and Desolators accompanied by Choppers at the edge of their cannon's range. Not sure of it working. At least it destroys infantry and light armour and can deal with mind control....

[Prism530]

I just noticed something with C&C games (the newer ones at least)
In the expansion, there is always an overpowered side....conspiracy? :p

(For the slow, Infantry General in Zero Hour, and Yuri)

[meselfs]

Gatt + Yuri + Magnetron > 3 rhino

Siege choppers suck. Not an option.

Yuri spends alot less on power.

A magnetron, 2 masterminds, and 3 gatts will own just about anything worth double their price.

Madge: Is it a sin that Yuri's units work well togheter?

It's a sin that they work TOO well together.

[lil8]

its a part of the game get over it... some armys have there strenght and weekness i mean the BF is very good i dont mind playing v yuri france or anything its a part of the game and u have to work around it yes yuri might be a bit more powerful but just get some men in front of your bf for them to take over it EASY as that and i think people who say "no yuri" "no france" "no sw" are just noobs that should go play a different game

[Teron]

That's the spirit. I dislike super weapons, but if the other players don't accept playing w/o them, I don't have much of a prob with that. Grand Cannons? I try to invent a way to get rid of'em (damn, Boomers are out of equations... Does launching the ICBMs take longer than the time a Cannon takes to turn 180 degrees?). It's hard, but you can manage it. Of course, the fact that all your aircraft are medium strength (durability) average moving high-price units doesn't do much good but...

[Derek]

Grand cannons are expensive and use a lot of power, so your not going to see a wall of them. You can use rocketeers and kirovs if they are causing you trouble

[Teron]

And as Yuri? Floating Discs are an option, Boomers would be one of the perfect things if they just can submerge before the Cannon has a chance to fire. Of course, if Super Weapons are in, the G.I. wall turns into a Cannon-killing mob of lunatics :)

[meselfs]

I've no problem killing a turtle and I'm fine with games with superweapons, but I still think Yuri is grossly overpowered.

[Madge]

You guys who beat yuri all the time are playing n00b yuri players. One of you guys play me, I'll be yuri, let's see how long you last, and I'm not good with him either. Beat me with yuri and then I'll start listening to you. ;)

[SickerThanSickest]

i dont mind playin yuri that much, but his mind control is a bitch, masterminds mostly, 5 units at a time? and it doesnt even lose much health points when it overdoses, i played a yuri player once, but he didnt use any mind control, just 4 yuri clones, but killed em w/ black eagles, it was a close match cuz all had were prisms, grizzles and black eagles, he had tons of brutes, gattlin tanks, viruses, bla bla...

[Teron]

Eh? The descriptions of Master Mind which state "whole squads" or "5 units" are, sadly, total crap. The Master Mind starts to overload when it controls more than three units. controlling something like 10 grants, according to most material found on the web, quick death. btw, MMs form new links fast, and you can train approx. 17 Conscripts with the price of MM, perfectly enough to overload it.

[Spider786]

hehe, here's a idea which i've done, play unholy alliance, and with sw, get 3 MM's wack iron curtain onem and they can control upto 10 each

mwhaha

ahhahahahahahahahha

*Cough*

but seriously, i don't mind play againts or as yuris i do admit its hard but i can manage :)

[Blue Aurora]

You guys who beat yuri all the time are playing n00b yuri players.
Madge, I've heard of people who've beatten people using Yuri that are master tacticians, so that's not true.

[Statalyzer]

"no France" - France is not overpowered. People don't like France because France can make a game take a long time even when his defeat is inevitible. Of course, that wouldn't be true about France if ppl would turn on superweapons, but nobody wants to do that for some reason.

If you cloned yourself and played against yourself as Yuri vs Allies/Soviets, the Yuri you should win 9 out of 10.

Boomers - a quick Boomer cannot be stopped without spending more than he did. If you use fast naval, even if you only build 2 destroyers/subs, you've spent more than he did (sub pen is cheaper), and if you spread out the DDs, the boomer can kill them 1 at a time. If you keep them together, he can go around to the other side. If you build AA, you will need more than 1 patriot or 3 IFVs or 3 Rockies to stop a boomer. If you are Soviets, you can probably build 4 flaks and then its even, but you don't know where his boomer will surface so if your flaks are in the wrong place, and you lose even just 1 building, the quick boomer pays off. Yes he needs it early b/c he has no other naval. Well that's EA/WW fault for not giving him a medium naval unit.

Genetic mutator/cloning vats give Yuri infinite cash if supers are on. The Dominator is superior to the storm/nuke in most cases, because you don't have the option to protect against it with the force shield. And brutes mean that a Yuri player who knows the map will get to most of the derricks first. Brutes also turn the tide of tank battles if you have no desos/seals - lashers can fight evenly against rhinos/grizz, but if you add a few brutes to the mix, or a magnetron to the mix, it becomes very uneven.

The gatt tank is a better AA unit than the IFV or flak, and a better infantry killer than IFV or flak (except seal/sniper IFV)...men in front of the bfs to prevent mind control doesn't work if the Yuri player builds a few gatts and a virus or two. The gatt tower, for the same cost as a flak cannon or patriot missle, gets much better AA capabilities AND ground defense also. A gatt tower defending a derrick is as good as a patriot + pillbox, maybe better. And the gatt tower isn't even Yuri's best air-land defense combo since he can also use gatt tanks in bunkers.

Why is it a sin Yuri's units work so well in combination? Because neither the Allies or Soviet can put units in a combination that work nearly as well together (except maybe the deso-apoc crawl in RA2).

Mind control actually isn't overpowered imo...psy tower costs same as prism/tesla and can do more harm but also has shorter range and can't be charged/linked. Yuri is vulnerable and Yuri has no flak/ifv equivalent to bring him in easy range. Yuri Prime is very dangerous, but so is Tanya and (sometimes) Boris.

[Derek]

Can't you just shoot down the boomer missle with 1 Patriot/IFV/GGI? (sorry if I'm wrong here, I don't own YR)

[SupSuper]

masterminds can also be very powerful if yuri manages to control some ifvs. just turn them into repair ifvs and no more overloads :wtf:

[General Kane Nash]

guys, guys, guys, almost of you no-yuri players demostrated terrible symtomps that you are noobs, I rush lot of times yuri boys with a simple strike of Desolator and Rhino Tanks, in case they make an excesive number of mind controlers I use lots of conscripts to overload them, we only have to use the brain (almost of you only make without brain tactics like guardian GI+battlefortress combo or hundreds of Rhino Heavy Tanks rush) and not necesary a hundred per cent, for examle, sending a a couple of kirovs you can destroy almost of a Yuri Base, the gatling weapons doesnt work good against them, or you can send a group o choopers to make a massival artillery barrage... yeah, I dont need use even % 10 of my brain to defeat Yuri. :lol: :lol:

[Teron]

Hmm...
Considering the complatele lack of AA in Yuri's Navy, I believe Rocketeers would have a fun time. See torpedo, fire there, keep Boomer up 'til Carrier/Grand Cannon gives the poor sub a run for the money...

But Gattling weapons not working on Kirovs? They are more likely made to take them out. Kirovs are slow, so Gattling tanks quickly rack up superspeed and then Kirovs drop like flies.

[Madge]

Dudes, overloading masterminds is no big deal, all you gotta do is kill so many of the units being mind controlled or send them to the grinder, and viola, the mastermind quits overloading. What's so hard about that? :rockbrow:

Blue Aurora, if you've heard of peeps beating master Yuri Tacticians, then they themselves are master tacticians. And I can prolly say that most of the peeps posting here aren't master tacticians except for Piscinex and Massacure.

[Statalyzer]

masterminds can also be very powerful if yuri manages to control some ifvs. just turn them into repair ifvs and no more overloads

I didn't think you could stick infantry in mind controlled transport units.

sending a a couple of kirovs you can destroy almost of a Yuri Base, the gatling weapons doesnt work good against them

Yes they do once they get to full speed, and you can pre-charge them since you'll know the Kirovs are coming.

Considering the complatele lack of AA in Yuri's Navy, I believe Rocketeers would have a fun time. See torpedo, fire there, keep Boomer up 'til Carrier/Grand Cannon gives the poor sub a run for the money...

That will cost you more money than he used up on the Boomer though. A rockie or two won't cut it. He can also just submerge and then which section of the base do you guard with the rockies.

Can't you just shoot down the boomer missle with 1 Patriot/IFV/GGI? (sorry if I'm wrong here, I don't own YR)

He can submerge and attack elsewhere unless your base is supercompact. Plus he can shoot at the AA unit.

I rush lot of times yuri boys with a simple strike of Desolator and Rhino Tanks, in case they make an excesive number of mind controlers I use lots of conscripts to overload them

2 Gatts and 2 viruses = all your conscripts go to naught. The desolator is pretty tough for Yuri. It'll keep brutes away from his tanks, and the radiation can rip apart gatt tanks. However, Yuri can stand back and use a few magnetrons to pull your tanks in where they can be m.c.ed or shot out of the air. Then if your rhinos attack, you leave the desos behind and brutes will tear up the rhinos. You can wait to put the desos in front but that takes time and he'll use the mags a couple more times by then and really deplete your tank force. Really Yuri's only direct counters to desos are discs or Virus (she can stand on the very edge of the radiation I believe, and can take out a couple of desos b4 dying, and then the clouds will slowly doom the rest if they stay.

[Madge]

Yeah, I realized what I said on my way to work this morning. If your yuri, gatling tanks and viruses will wipe out the conscripts so you won't have to worry about the MM mind controlling too many infantry. But as I said before, you can still kill off the extra amount of vehicles/infantry being controlled by the MM if that situation arrises.

And Stat's right about using mags to attract tanks away from desos and using virus to kill the desos. It's very hard to go against a good yuri player. I'm not a good yuri player, and I haven't lost using him in a long time.

[UNkeeper]

Yeah, I realized what I said on my way to work this morning. If your yuri, gatling tanks and viruses will wipe out the conscripts so you won't have to worry about the MM mind controlling too many infantry. But as I said before, you can still kill off the extra amount of vehicles/infantry being controlled by the MM if that situation arrises.

And Stat's right about using mags to attract tanks away from desos and using virus to kill the desos. It's very hard to go against a good yuri player. I'm not a good yuri player, and I haven't lost using him in a long time.
I'm sure you could send those ole rhinos right to the grinder, but what if it's the highly unlikely scenario that Yuri is actually attacking? What do you do then?

[Teron]

Then you blow away the excess amount yourself or send them on a suicide charge against enemy base defenses. I'd like Master Minds as fast-firing Psychic Towers with movement capabilities rather than the current ones. True, the current setup makes MMs great base defense as Grinders are near so the excess control ain't a big deal, but a static limit would improve them on the offensive :P

[Madge]

I'm sure you could send those ole rhinos right to the grinder, but what if it's the highly unlikely scenario that Yuri is actually attacking? What do you do then?

What Teron said. Either force fire on themselves, or attack with them and let your opponent kill them. Might be faster to kill them yourself, just depends on the situation.

[nicotine]

either way it's a big sacrifice
i don't like the wacky psycho thingy either

BTW madge i like your old avatar

[Chrono69x]

Yuri isn't overpowered, it's easy to rape a yuri player in qm, ive won many, many more times than i've lost against yuri players... i just don't see why people find it hard to counter?!!

Name some names.I dont believe you've ever beaten a good Yuri player. Ever. It is impossible to beat a GOOD player that's using Yuri. Especially if he's better than you, or as good as you.

Guess what, tech up and deploy some choppers. Gatts can't shoot down cannonballs.

No Gats cannot shoot down cannon balls, but you cannot use choppers effectively. First, if you deploy too far, Yuri will run back a few feet (out of YOUR range) then you'll be forced to undeploy. The second you START undeploying he'll rush up to your choppers. The choppers deploy and undeploy rate is just WAY too slow. So your choppers will get owned by gats, or if you try to deploy again, his MM's will be up there with him, as well as mags who, by the way, are one of the most imbalanced things to happen to an RTS. Then, even if the Yuri doesn't rush up when your choppers are undeploying, Yuri still has UFO's (as mass mentioned) that will kill them long before they have time to deploy then undeploy again.

One relatively good bet would be War Miners, Drones and Desolators accompanied by Choppers at the edge of their cannon's range. Not sure of it working. At least it destroys infantry and light armour and can deal with mind control....

One word. UFOs.
Bring flack tracks. Oh, damn, he split up his UFOs, now you have one UFO powering down your base, another stealing your money, what're you gonna do? bring your AA back to your base. What will be left open? Your tanks. Even if you dont bring back all of your flack tracks, you'll need to bring back about 4 or 5 to take out those UFOs since in a few shots one flack track will die.

yes yuri might be a bit more powerful but just get some men in front of your bf for them to take over it EASY as that and i think people who say "no yuri" "no france" "no sw" are just noobs that should go play a different game

If that worked, then you also haven't played vs a good Yuri. It's not as simple as "bring a few men with your BF". what will you have that has the range of a mag? Prism tanks? mags out range them. Plus, the prism tanks doesn't completely null an entire unit. It damages them. The mags will take an entire unit, and make it absolotely worthless.

Eh? The descriptions of Master Mind which state "whole squads" or "5 units" are, sadly, total crap. The Master Mind starts to overload when it controls more than three units. controlling something like 10 grants, according to most material found on the web, quick death. btw, MMs form new links fast, and you can train approx. 17 Conscripts with the price of MM, perfectly enough to overload it.

And anywhere from 3-5 snipers is the perfect number to kill ANY ammount of constcripts quickly and efficiently. They dont even need to shoot all of them, the poison **** that flies out of the cons will kill the rest.

Can't you just shoot down the boomer missle with 1 Patriot/IFV/GGI? (sorry if I'm wrong here, I don't own YR)


Nope. One patriot defenitely wouldn't do it, seeing as boomers are mobile and can move to a place where there isn't a pat. If he doesn't have the option of hitting somewhere where there isn't a PAT (say there's a pat in the middle of his base) then between the two missiles, one is bound to hit, probably two, because of the PAT refire rate and the range involved.

guys, guys, guys, almost of you no-yuri players demostrated terrible symtomps that you are noobs, I rush lot of times yuri boys with a simple strike of Desolator and Rhino Tanks, in case they make an excesive number of mind controlers I use lots of conscripts to overload them, we only have to use the brain (almost of you only make without brain tactics like guardian GI+battlefortress combo or hundreds of Rhino Heavy Tanks rush) and not necesary a hundred per cent, for examle, sending a a couple of kirovs you can destroy almost of a Yuri Base, the gatling weapons doesnt work good against them, or you can send a group o choopers to make a massival artillery barrage... yeah, I dont need use even % 10 of my brain to defeat Yuri.

you lost absolutely all credibility when you said, "hundreds of Rhino Heavy Tanks rush". I beg to differ that I haven't played good Yuri players, and that i was / am a noob. You probably weren't talking to me, but unless you've played each of these players, you have no say as to what their skill level is. You could have said that they haven't played a certain skilled player based on what they've described to you, but to actually comment on THEIR skill is wrong. You rush with desolators and rhinos? You must only play Yuris on small maps like BF or DP, because those sell mcv rushes ONLY work there. You ever heard of the Flack track, 15 cons, and 3 rhinos rush? That was something me and a m8 of mine came up with while we were out camping. It worked great for a month and a half, and after that, Yuri found a NEW way of stopping even that...and it takes place within the first 3 and a half minutes of play...

Hmm...
Considering the complatele lack of AA in Yuri's Navy, I believe Rocketeers would have a fun time. See torpedo, fire there, keep Boomer up 'til Carrier/Grand Cannon gives the poor sub a run for the money...
But Gattling weapons not working on Kirovs? They are more likely made to take them out. Kirovs are slow, so Gattling tanks quickly rack up superspeed and then Kirovs drop like flies.


What kind of torpedo are you looking for?? You'd have to be literally, RIGHT ON TOP of the Yuri player to get there in time. Hit and run means just that. Hit something and run to a new location. He wont sit around and wait for YOUR rockies, Which he CAN see unlike you to his boomer.
Oh, and thanks for pointing that out. It means i didn't have to.



I know i said i wasn't going to get into this debate, but it looks like i lied :p

[JoKuJaK]

Hi I R New (on these forumz Si.)
yuri is ovberpowoered BIG
magnetron is WONE all k?? i kill EAZY 8 rihno tannky with 3 magnetromns lol

YUO CATN KILL MAGNETRON WIHT SOV MAN!1

aND SUPER PWN ALLIED?? LOLOLO man IMAGINE 100 BRUTE COMING TO UR BASE AND WAHT U DO?? lololo seal do NOT rape brute!!11 man yuo DEAD!1

yuri pwn any, and if yuo dont believe MEH then we play GAME ok?



c00l smilayaysye lololo :color1: :color2: :color3:

LOLOLOLO i haev not tell'd yuo bout boomers ?? ROFL BOOMER IS WIN ALREADT MAN!1 boomer si onlay 2k and yoo have good ECO cus of good slave miner (lolololo EVEN slave miner si OVER POWERED k?)

AND MM LOLO man i have 3 mm RUSH in 4 min lolol

WAHT YUO DO when you see 3 mm 1 prime 2 mag and few gatt comign to YUOR base in 4 MIN LOLO ONLY 1 THING!1 dieeeeeee omg DIE

yuri PWN all man DISC HHAEV SELF HEAL LOL!1 3 mm WITH grinder next to it KILL EAZY 40 rhino ROFL


I SAY AGAIN, YUO WANNA SEE YURI IS OOVER THE POWERED PLAY ME



loooooooooool AND 1 magnetron KLILL EAZY 2 miner DROP ON EACHOTHER and you dont EVEN NOTICE IT hahahahah THAT MEAN U DEAD!! and YURI OVER THE POWERED :beer:

[Teron]

I'm sorry to inform, but you should head to the nearest mental hospital/typing teacher ASAP... What were you trying to say anyway? that lolololo is 100% useless, and 100 Brutes? I can't imagine anyone insane enough to make that big amount of'em if it's a serious game...

[JoKuJaK]

LOLOLO yuor a n00b man??

IN THE OLD TIMES LOT GOOD PLAYERS AROUND THEY RUSH FOR GENETERIC MUTATOR AND MAKE CLONE THE VATS AND MAKE LIKE 30-50 INITIATE and then PUT IN THE SLAVE MINER and then genetic THEM EAZY and yuo have 100 brutes K??

AND THATS ONLY LIKE 6-7 MIN INTO TEH GAME SO HE COME WITH 100 BRUTE AND LIKE 4 MM AND FEW MAG AND GATT AND PRIME MAN YOUR DEADDDD


ALL THOSE BRUTES MAKE THE GAME GO SLOW TOO WHICH IS PERFECT MAGNETRON CONTROL GG YR WIN

[Teron]

First, stop using CAPS, it's useless and makes YOU look the n00b.
Second, are you trying to say you can get Mutator up in 3 minutes into the game without suffering at any other aspect of the game?

[JoKuJaK]

CAN YUO DO THIS IN QM??

Points: 519
Record: 12/0/1


I AM RIGHT yuri is BEST, i OWN all with yuri EAZY man i PLAY like OLD SCHOOL YURI!!1 with GENETIC MUTATORs man all yurii NOOB play now first with psychic domonator BUT genetics IS BETTER EAZY

I PROOF EAZY mAN 1v1? OK? man BOOMERs is OWN MAGNETRON is OWN MM is OWN GATT is OWN DISC is OWN


you REALizEr that 1 magnetrons can KILL EAZY 2 MINEr in 1 SEC and THEN RUN TO BASE??

that is -2 miners for you IS ALREADY DEAD MAN

First, stop using CAPS, it's useless and makes YOU look the n00b.
Second, are you trying to say you can get Mutator up in 3 minutes into the game without suffering at any other aspect of the game?


LOLOLO EAZY MAN

SLAVE MINER IS SOOO GOOD YUO CAN TECH UP WITH 4 MINER GETTING MM AND SUPERS EAZY ROFL

[Teron]

Since when has a Mag killed anything in one second? And learn to write, btw, your text is giving me a serious headache.

[JoKuJaK]

adn geneteric mutators is only 5 (game)min and that is deploy in 4-5 min in game then attack with ALL around 7 min LOLO-

Since when has a Mag killed anything in one second? And learn to write, btw, your text is giving me a serious headache.


SINCE THE OLD DAY WHEN PPL CAN CONTROL MAGS EAZY MAN

I TELL YOU I NEVER MAKE FAULT WITH MAG I DROP EASY ALL ON TREES ROKCS AND WATER NP LOLOLO mag Si PWN omg

mag BEST unit and LOLO at range!!!11 man LONG rannge

and like a map like LBL!! YOU DO MAG ON THE CLIFF AND YUOR OPPONENT CATN EVEN ATATCK AND YUO DROP MINER ON CLIFF ALL THE TIME....

mag dotn even need battel lab man onlay RADAR

[Chrono69x]

actually...joku's right in everything he's said so far :o
Surprising for such a mental case huh?
You really can get a genetic mutator in about 6-7 minutes.
A mag can really kill 2 miners in a matter of seconds
And those brutes really will own :S

[JoKuJaK]

10 brute KILL EAZY 1 seal ifv IF yuo dont move SEAL IFV

BUT OFCUORSE yuo MOVE the IFV bACK hit and teh run!!1 but you CANT hit and run 100 BRUTES LOLO yuo need LIKE 10 SEAl IFV LMFao!!1 IS EXPENSIVE and allied miner SUKC so no money GG

[Teron]

Care to clarify that please?

EDIT: Yes? Of course 100 Brutes will own 1 SEAL IFV. The Brutes (at minimum) cost 12 500. That is the price of Mutator + 100 Initiates (cloned, so they are only $100 per unit). On the other hand, a SEAL IFV costs $1200, am I right? ANY unit would lose to such overpowering numbers provided the overpowering number-units could attack the outnumbered chappy...

[JoKuJaK]

Genetic Teh Slave Aswell Man

4 Miner 20 Slave Is Gg

Dude Just Play Me 1v1 And U Will C

[Chrono69x]

Care to clarify that please?

EDIT: Yes? Of course 100 Brutes will own 1 SEAL IFV. The Brutes (at minimum) cost 12 500. That is the price of Mutator + 100 Initiates (cloned, so they are only $100 per unit). On the other hand, a SEAL IFV costs $1200, am I right? ANY unit would lose to such overpowering numbers provided the overpowering number-units could attack the outnumbered chappy...

Again, JokuJak is right. The brutes are free.

[Teron]

As long as you sacrifice Slaves for them. Let's see. 100 Brutes, and one Slave Miner can keep 5 Slaves. Who in his right mind would build 20 Miners? And if you don't build twenty, you have to use multiple charges of Mutator to get the Brutes, giving the opponent more than enough time to counter.

[JoKuJaK]

i haev teh feelign i talk wiht peopple who not reallay good in yuri game play man waht is the problem here is you are no good plaeyr so how can yuo talk liek yuo are so good?

As long as you sacrifice Slaves for them. Let's see. 100 Brutes, and one Slave Miner can keep 5 Slaves. Who in his right mind would build 20 Miners? And if you don't build twenty, you have to use multiple charges of Mutator to get the Brutes, giving the opponent more than enough time to counter.
man dotn taek so serious n00b

maybe 60 brutes ok?? is 20 free from teh minerz and 40 from clone vat is ONLY 4k ROFL 4k IS NOT EVEN 1 BF WITH GGI AND ****

man just play me and i show yuo how to real play yuri

[Teron]

It's a fact that Slave Miners can keep only 5 Slaves at a time. So, if you are going to make those 100 Brutes 100% free, you either have to have 20 Slave Miners or use multiple charges of Genetic Mutator to get the Brutes.
(Slave Miners cost $1500, right? That's $30 000 for the Miners, $2500 more for the Mutator. Free?)

[JoKuJaK]

yuo dotn know waht you talk abuot man

also yuo dotn get the point wiht the money thign

see its no probelm that its expenzife couse your slave miner ARE BETTER tehn allied miner OR soviet miner so you get more money ANYWAY and waht you do when i kill 2 miner with 1 mag instatnly?? nothing yuo haev no $$

[Teron]

Sorry to say, but a Battle Fortress with 4 Guardians costs exactly $4000.

[JoKuJaK]

so yuo only do 4 unit in teh bf wehn u can put 5 in? lololo nebw

Sorry to say, but a Battle Fortress with 4 Guardians costs exactly $4000.


MAN LISTEN FFS

MONEY IS NOT THE POINT IN DISCUSIIONS LIKE THESE SINCE SLAVE MINERS BRING MUCH MORE MONEY THEN ALLIED MINERS

WITH YURI YOU CAN TECH UP WITH 4 MINERS MAKING MM, SUPER, AND ANOTHER MINER FROM MCV


WITH ALLIES YOU NEED 5 MINERS TO PRODUCE TANKS FROM WARF AND A SUPERWEAPON, WHEN U GO MAKE ANOTHER REF FROM MCV YOULL BE LOW MONEY


AKA 4K FOR YURI IS LESS THAN 4K FOR ALLIES

[Teron]

Please, if you can't write proper English, you can at least write without Caps Lock on.

EDIT: Oh, and my calculations were made with haste and were wrong.
Battle Fortress=$2000, Guardian=$400.
400 times 5=2000.
So, a full Guardian Fortress=$4000.

[Chrono69x]

Sorry to say, but a Battle Fortress with 4 Guardians costs exactly $4000.

Here's how it works.

Genetic mutator. Grinder. Slave miners (4-5). and Cloning Vat.
You produce about 15 initiates (which would make 30 because of cloning vats) PLUS the 20 slaves from miners, that's 50 brutes with the Genetic Mutator. You grind that first batch, and you make like a 300% profit. You do that as much as you need to. There's infinate cash.

Then, if you want to go on the offensive, you can produce as many initiates as you want because of your infinate money, and turn them all into brutes. Those brutes, plus the ****ed up unbalanced army you already have, will completely kill anything that anybody could have.

[Teron]

And? Have you forgot a thing called Superweapon charging time? You can't just spam Mutator shots all over the place.

And that gives the opponent a chance to counter. Of course, you can just mass units because of the extra cash given by the technique, but a well-placed Chronoshift with sufficient units will just blow up your Mutator...

[Chrono69x]

And? Have you forgot a thing called Superweapon charging time? You can't just spam Mutator shots all over the place.

And that gives the opponent a chance to counter. Of course, you can just mass units because of the extra cash given by the technique, but a well-placed Chronoshift with sufficient units will just blow up your Mutator...

And any sort of mind control will completely destroy that. There is no way to beat a Yuri of equal skill to you. None. He has to be substantially worse of a player than you are for you to have any chance.
And what's the charging time of a mutator?? Some rediculous charge time like 5 or 6 minutes?? So every 5 minutes you increase your funds by 20-30,000
I will provide some SS's for you to show just how drastically your money changes if you need them. But just as an FYI, i went into skirmish and did this, and my money went from 10,000 to 33,000 over one try. Just think if i did that every 5 minutes. I have WAY more than enough money to do ANYTHING i want. I could start pumping out more Con Yards if i wanted to, and still out tank you, not that i need to. I could be down 4 tanks to 1 and still win because Yuris army is just that good.
And dont repeat that a well placed chrono sphere will do the trick. You'll be dead at that point, and even if you DO get a chrono shift off, he has way more than enough money to have mind control spread throughout.
You wont get the chrono sphere up before him because his teching is WAY faster. He only needs 1-2 power plants to do this. You need what? 3? 4?
Plus, as has been mentioned. His economy is unreal.

[SirSnake]

Hi I am New (on these forums, see?)
yuri is overpowered big time
magnetron is the best, ok? i kill with great ease 8 rhino tanks with 3 magnetrons. *laughs*

you cant kill magnetron with the soviets, man!

and super own the allies? *laughs* man imagine 100 brutes coming to your base, what would you do? *laughs* S.E.A.L.'s do NOT rape brutes! man, you would be dead!

yuri pwns everyone, and if you dont believe me, then we should play a game, ok?



cool, *smiles* *laughs* :color1: :color2: :color3:

*laughs* I have not told you about boomers? *laughs more* the boomers have won already. 1 boomer is only 2 thousand gold, and you have good economy because of the good slave miners (*laughs* even the slave miners are overpowered. ok?)

and masterminds? *laughs hard* I can perform a 3 mastermind rush within 4 minutes. *laughs*

what would you do when you see 3 masterminds, 1 prime yuri, 2 magnetrons, a partridge in a pear tree, and a few gattling tanks coming to your base in 4 minutes? only one thing. you would die, oh my god, you would die. i repeat, die.

yuri pwns all, man. Discs have self-heal, man. *laughs* 3 masterminds with a grinder next to it means they will kill 40 rhinos easily *laughs hardly*


i repeat, if you wish to see yuri overpowered, then play me.



*laughs* and 1 magnetron easily kills 2 miners, you can drop them on each other, and your opponent will not even notice. *laughs* that means yuri is overpowered :beer:


well, thats that re-written in passable english. ill do the rest when im not so tired! :p

(please read the above, ive even tried to throw in humour, and sentences that make sense!)
:eek: :D :lol:

[smilodon]

Isn't there a limit to the number of soldiers you can mutate in one burst? I doubt you can mutate anywhere over twenty.

Second, Yuri is not overpowered, his forces might as well have cardboard for armor.
Gatt cannon maybe an excellent AA weapon, however it has little ground range. The psychic tower has a poor range, plus it can only control 3 units at a time. Mags cannot instantly kill ****, actually they can't kill infantry or vehicles. The Lasher has to be massed to do anything. Chaos drones have few uses, due to range.

[Chrono69x]

Isn't there a limit to the number of soldiers you can mutate in one burst? I doubt you can mutate anywhere over twenty.

Second, Yuri is not overpowered, his forces might as well have cardboard for armor.
Gatt cannon maybe an excellent AA weapon, however it has little ground range. The psychic tower has a poor range, plus it can only control 3 units at a time. Mags cannot instantly kill ****, actually they can't kill infantry or vehicles. The Lasher has to be massed to do anything. Chaos drones have few uses, due to range.

Your doubts are false then. I have a SS with over 40 or so units in there that all get mutated. The only limit is the radius of the genetic mutator. I would post it if there wasn't this damn upload limit (even after deleting my other uploads, i still exceed the limit by 17 damn KB).

Your second part is VERY false. Yuri IS overpowered. The fact that you even start to say that he's not, and moreso try to prove he's not, shows you're dillusional. You dare say mags can't instantly kill ****? They can kill vehicles better than apocs even can.
This game has long since been dead, and many of the things that people knew how to do, and did do with Yuri have long since stopped. You wont see any good Yuri players now because frankly, there are near no good players left on YR. Any of you guys can play JokuJak on YR and he will show you what playing vs a good Yuri is like, even after not playing for as long as he has. To sit and theorize, and strip down each of Yuris units one by one and say "this is weak because" is just rediculous. Have you ever seen Yuri just use one unit?...wait, dont answer that. Knowing today's competition, you probably have =\

[smilodon]

Mags do not damage vehicles, they just lift them up into the air and bring them close. There are plenty of people playing on the YR servers, more then that of RA2 I've been told. And again I will state, his forces have so little armor, it might as well be paper.

[Chrono69x]

Mags do not damage vehicles, they just lift them up into the air and bring them close. There are plenty of people playing on the YR servers, more then that of RA2 I've been told. And again I will state, his forces have so little armor, it might as well be paper.

lol...trust me when i say mags can kill any vehicle it can touch :)

And i've been on both servers in the past couple of days...RA2's tons more populated...but w/e, that's a trivial point. And the # of people isn't really what matters when you talk about knowing how and what to do. It's the quality and experiance that does. People that had the game when it first came out to about a year after it came out are gone by now. There are a few people, but none of them use Yuri because they know and realize how unfair it is. They dont want to use Yuri because of the unfair qualities about h im, and they actually like having fun, not just winning.

And i'll say it again. If you dont think Yuri is unbalanced, go ahead and play with JokuJak. He may be foreign, but he knows his stuff...and he wasn't anywhere near the best. He was good, i'd say just above my skill which was above average, but not great. And he can still show you what it's like to play vs a Yuri player.

[ghoststalker2004]

Mags can kill. I got this in the YR manual. Pick a ship, drop it on land. Pick a vehicle...

[smilodon]

And do what with it, unless you cross a river, there is little hope to do much to a vehicle. And yes I know you can pick up ships and drop them on land; however, doesn't the mag just pick up the vehicle and bring it closer?

[ghoststalker2004]

Sorry. My mistake. I thought you meant mags cannot kill at all.

[Chrono69x]

And do what with it, unless you cross a river, there is little hope to do much to a vehicle. And yes I know you can pick up ships and drop them on land; however, doesn't the mag just pick up the vehicle and bring it closer?

You dont need a river.
You can use a rock, a tree, a civilian building, a structure, another UNIT, a cliff...just about anything. And you'll probably say that it's not practical, but it's more than practical. Good tank control is about keeping your units close together to allow for the maximum number of shots fired. But you cannot have good tank control at all vs a Yuri because the second you bring your tanks close together, a mag comes and boom, there goes two tanks. And if supers are involved, oh boy you're screwed. Not only does Yuri get infinate money, but then there's the issue of the psychic dominator which gives about a half a second warning before going off. In that half of a second, you dont have the time needed to figure out where and what it's hitting.

But a good Yuri player isn't stupid. He wont use the psychic dominator the second it's ready, because you're expecting it. Instead he'll either attack you with his units, or force you to attack with yours. If your units are all spread out, well then it's easy pickings for all of his, because he just takes you out one tank at a time. If you actually try to play somewhat decently, and group your men, oops, there goes the psychic dominator and you're down about 9 tanks, and he's up 9. In the middle of your army...while trying to fight off his. Those 9 tanks wont be "paper" either, unless of course your army consisted of Paper. In which case Yuri wins by a land slide. And if your army was just the opposite of paper, he still wins. Mind control one...two...three...as many units as he wants. With psychic dominator, MM's, yuri clones, YP himself.
What will you use vs a couple of MM's accompanied by mags, gats, lashers, UFOs, and Yuri clones...with a pyschic dominator ready to go off, And to complicate things, a nice army of about 40-50 brutes freshly mutated? What side could handle that even? Especially in the hands of somebody who can actually micro manage their units?? For every mag he has, he nulls 2-3 of your units....and that's just mags...

[Navy SEAL]

Yuri isn't over powered, just a bit hard to beat if you don't have:
a) Strategy
b) Even the basic knowledge of the game
c) A Navy SEAL amount of infantry

he is easy to beat if there are no Superweapons

[Chrono69x]

Yuri isn't over powered, just a bit hard to beat if you don't have:
a) Strategy
b) Even the basic knowledge of the game
c) A Navy SEAL amount of infantry

he is easy to beat if there are no Superweapons

lol...that's laughable. You're telling me that he's not over powered and that everybody who's ever been good at the game is just full of ****? You think all these people that say no Yuri are just doing it for ****s and giggles, and they dont even have the "basic knowledge of the game". People who you've never played?
I'll repeat my first line. Lol, that's laughable.

[SupSuper]

it's time i added my two cents in. yuri is EXTREMELY overpowered. why? ok, i'll make a list (i'm not gonna say how fast you can build stuff or how cheap it is compared to other sides because i don't know exact values):

STRUCTURES

Bio Reactor - Just like any other power plant... except you can stick up to 5 soldiers in it increasing its power output by 5 times with ease! You can just have one of these fully-powered maintaining a fully-fledged base (all buildings and some defences) without super weapons

Slave Miner - A mobile ore refinery with a minigun on top, what else is there to say? Also, if slaves are killed they'll be slowly remade. Other sides have to rebuild their miners if destroyed, and miners actually have to move back and forth from refineries (chrono miner only teleports heading back to refinery, not heading to ore)

Psychic Radar - Besides providing basic radar system it also tells you when something is ordered to attack something within its range.

Grinder - Instead of being like the Service Depot of the other sides, this allows you to sell your vehicles. This wouldn't be so bad, but taking in account the immense psi powers Yuri has it's the easiest way of getting rich. Just send all enemy-controlled units to it and you'll be rich in no time.

Cloning Vats - Two soldiers for the price of one. Need I say more?

ARMORY

Psychic Reveal - Allies need the Spy Satellite to show the whole map, which is a great expense in power. Soviets have the Spy Plane to show parts of the map, which can be easily taken out by AA units. Yuri can reveal any part of the map without any trouble whatsoever, it's just click-and-reveal.

Gattling Turret - Can fire at both ground and air units effectively and fire rate speeds up dramatically overtime. Other sides have separate ground/air turrets and they're still not so powerful.

Tank Bunker - Tanks are tough enough as it is, but now sticking up in bunkers to cover them makes them extra tough. Specially useful for defense with gatling tanks, the only way to destroy the tank without destroying the bunker is through air.

Psychic Tower - Controls up to 3 units within range.

Genetic Mutator - Quickly get plenty of brutes. You can turn any infantry unit (enemy or otherwise) into brutes (under your control).

Psychic Dominator - Unlike all other powerful superweapons, which give you quite some time to get your Force Shield up and prepare for the hit, this one acts almost instantly without warning, and besides the mass destruction it does it can also control enemy units. Starting to see a pattern?

INFANTRY

Initiate - The basic and cheapest infantry unit, can burn any infantry unit quickly and at moderate range. A small group of them can also take out tanks with ease. Stick'em in a civilian building and they're very powerful.

Virus - Cheaper and much easier to get than the British Sniper. Besides sniping infantry units, it also spreads some toxic thingy which lasts nearly forever and kills any infantry unit. Allows for easy takeout of enemy infantry defences.

Brute - A powerful and cheap infantry unit. Unlike most infantry units, it's best against vehicles/buildings, not soldiers.

Yuri Clone - Quickly capture enemy units. Each can capture one unit.

Yuri Prime - The one and only. Hovers around on some thingy (making it a really fast soldier), can control more than one unit (i think) and can do some sort of psychic attack (deploy option) which quickly wipes out soldiers nearby.

VEHICLES

Boomer - A sub in a dreadnought all in one. Need any more?

Lasher Tank - Cheaper than Rhino and about the same power.

Gatling Tank - Unlike other sides' AA units, this one has a much faster firing rate and a group of them can take out both ground and air units quickly.

Magnetron - Can pull any enemy vehicle (ground or naval) towards it. Let it fall on unstable ground and the enemy's vehicles go boom. If you don't want to bother to do that, stick a group of them with a group of gatling tanks and all those vehicles being pushed around will be quickly destroyed. Also, they have a range longer than even the French Grand Cannon so they can easily take out enemy buildings from a safe distance.

Master Mind - The ultimate mind controlling unit. As if there weren't enough units to control the enemy, this one is yet another one. Unlike all others, this one has NO LIMIT on how much it can control. Sure, it overloads if it controls more than three units, but just get some repair IFVs (either from a ally or control them) and they are unbeatable. Besides, you can easily stop the overload by sending controlled units to the Grinder, again making you rich quickly.

Floating Disc - One hell of a flying unit. Besides having a fast firing rate and is good against everything, it can quickly hover over enemy power plants to shut down their power (thus putting out any AA buildings) or over refineries to steal their money. While it does that it can still fire at anything nearby, and since it's faster and cheaper than a Kirov it can be one hell of a unit to stop.

[Chrono69x]

it's time i added my two cents in. yuri is EXTREMELY overpowered. why? ok, i'll make a list (i'm not gonna say how fast you can build stuff or how cheap it is compared to other sides because i don't know exact values):

STRUCTURES

Bio Reactor - Just like any other power plant... except you can stick up to 5 soldiers in it increasing its power output by 5 times with ease! You can just have one of these fully-powered maintaining a fully-fledged base (all buildings and some defences) without super weapons

Slave Miner - A mobile ore refinery with a minigun on top, what else is there to say? Also, if slaves are killed they'll be slowly remade. Other sides have to rebuild their miners if destroyed, and miners actually have to move back and forth from refineries (chrono miner only teleports heading back to refinery, not heading to ore)

Psychic Radar - Besides providing basic radar system it also tells you when something is ordered to attack something within its range.

Grinder - Instead of being like the Service Depot of the other sides, this allows you to sell your vehicles. This wouldn't be so bad, but taking in account the immense psi powers Yuri has it's the easiest way of getting rich. Just send all enemy-controlled units to it and you'll be rich in no time.

Cloning Vats - Two soldiers for the price of one. Need I say more?

ARMORY

Psychic Reveal - Allies need the Spy Satellite to show the whole map, which is a great expense in power. Soviets have the Spy Plane to show parts of the map, which can be easily taken out by AA units. Yuri can reveal any part of the map without any trouble whatsoever, it's just click-and-reveal.

Gattling Turret - Can fire at both ground and air units effectively and fire rate speeds up dramatically overtime. Other sides have separate ground/air turrets and they're still not so powerful.

Tank Bunker - Tanks are tough enough as it is, but now sticking up in bunkers to cover them makes them extra tough. Specially useful for defense with gatling tanks, the only way to destroy the tank without destroying the bunker is through air.

Psychic Tower - Controls up to 3 units within range.

Genetic Mutator - Quickly get plenty of brutes. You can turn any infantry unit (enemy or otherwise) into brutes (under your control).

Psychic Dominator - Unlike all other powerful superweapons, which give you quite some time to get your Force Shield up and prepare for the hit, this one acts almost instantly without warning, and besides the mass destruction it does it can also control enemy units. Starting to see a pattern?

INFANTRY

Initiate - The basic and cheapest infantry unit, can burn any infantry unit quickly and at moderate range. A small group of them can also take out tanks with ease. Stick'em in a civilian building and they're very powerful.

Virus - Cheaper and much easier to get than the British Sniper. Besides sniping infantry units, it also spreads some toxic thingy which lasts nearly forever and kills any infantry unit. Allows for easy takeout of enemy infantry defences.

Brute - A powerful and cheap infantry unit. Unlike most infantry units, it's best against vehicles/buildings, not soldiers.

Yuri Clone - Quickly capture enemy units. Each can capture one unit.

Yuri Prime - The one and only. Hovers around on some thingy (making it a really fast soldier), can control more than one unit (i think) and can do some sort of psychic attack (deploy option) which quickly wipes out soldiers nearby.

VEHICLES

Boomer - A sub in a dreadnought all in one. Need any more?

Lasher Tank - Cheaper than Rhino and about the same power.

Gatling Tank - Unlike other sides' AA units, this one has a much faster firing rate and a group of them can take out both ground and air units quickly.

Magnetron - Can pull any enemy vehicle (ground or naval) towards it. Let it fall on unstable ground and the enemy's vehicles go boom. If you don't want to bother to do that, stick a group of them with a group of gatling tanks and all those vehicles being pushed around will be quickly destroyed. Also, they have a range longer than even the French Grand Cannon so they can easily take out enemy buildings from a safe distance.

Master Mind - The ultimate mind controlling unit. As if there weren't enough units to control the enemy, this one is yet another one. Unlike all others, this one has NO LIMIT on how much it can control. Sure, it overloads if it controls more than three units, but just get some repair IFVs (either from a ally or control them) and they are unbeatable. Besides, you can easily stop the overload by sending controlled units to the Grinder, again making you rich quickly.

Floating Disc - One hell of a flying unit. Besides having a fast firing rate and is good against everything, it can quickly hover over enemy power plants to shut down their power (thus putting out any AA buildings) or over refineries to steal their money. While it does that it can still fire at anything nearby, and since it's faster and cheaper than a Kirov it can be one hell of a unit to stop.

v nice and extensive list sup :D
If i can, i'll just add a few small..trivial things that really don't make much of a difference, but should be noted :p

Psychic Radar - Besides providing basic radar system it also tells you when something is ordered to attack something within its range.
This part of the psychic radar completely nulls any other superweapons that might be used on you...

Slave Miner - A mobile ore refinery with a minigun on top, what else is there to say? Also, if slaves are killed they'll be slowly remade. Other sides have to rebuild their miners if destroyed, and miners actually have to move back and forth from refineries (chrono miner only teleports heading back to refinery, not heading to ore)
And with all of those bonuses, you get the slave miner for cheaper than any other refinery/miner mix in the game.

Grinder - Instead of being like the Service Depot of the other sides, this allows you to sell your vehicles. This wouldn't be so bad, but taking in account the immense psi powers Yuri has it's the easiest way of getting rich. Just send all enemy-controlled units to it and you'll be rich in no time.

Not only sell your vehicles, but it allows you to sell your mcv by grinding it, giving you full price for it instead of the customary 1500. Then if you really need one, you can make another mcv to build w/e it is you need.

Genetic Mutator - Quickly get plenty of brutes. You can turn any infantry unit (enemy or otherwise) into brutes (under your control).
With those Brutes, you can either have a hell of a lot of fodder, or you can grind them to give you roughly 20-25k more than you had. An easy way to get infinate money.

Brute - A powerful and cheap infantry unit. Unlike most infantry units, it's best against vehicles/buildings, not soldiers.

Then on top of the brute being a powerhouse, it has self heal. Dogs cannot attack it, making it a primary scouting unit that cannot be antiscouted against besides pills / sentrys. And that only works if the person using the brute doesn't pull the brute out in time. If they do, they can just wait for the self heal and send him scouting some more.

Yuri Prime - The one and only. Hovers around on some thingy (making it a really fast soldier), can control more than one unit (i think) and can do some sort of psychic attack (deploy option) which quickly wipes out soldiers nearby.
The only thing in your post that was flawed. He can only control 1 unit at a time. But, YP is just like an engi in a flack track that can take control of multiple buildings. YP can steal just about any building, place any structure he wants right next to it, and run away. If he doesn't wanna place anything (like a psychic tower, or gat cannon) next to it, he can just sell it for profits anyway. With the cloning vat, YP is even that more dangerous.

Magnetron - Can pull any enemy vehicle (ground or naval) towards it. Let it fall on unstable ground and the enemy's vehicles go boom. If you don't want to bother to do that, stick a group of them with a group of gatling tanks and all those vehicles being pushed around will be quickly destroyed. Also, they have a range longer than even the French Grand Cannon so they can easily take out enemy buildings from a safe distance.

...And in competent hands, this one unit can completely null up to 3 units. pay 1000 to make 7-900 * 3 useless....



Like i said, v nice post :)

[Teron]

Cloning Vats functions no different than it was in Ra2.

Initiates: Have a problem with something being strong but short-ranged?

Virus: As far as I know, these require the same tech as the Sniper.

Yuri Clone: Same as RA2 version, but cheaper

Yuri Prime: Can control only one unit at a time, has Psychic Wave like Yuri Clone. This wave does some damage to nearby tanks. The unit can't do damage any other way.

Boomies can be produced early, but their missiles pale in power to the might of Dreads/Carriers. It's flexibility, not sheer power, that makes Boomers powerful.

Lashers are closer to Grizzlies than Rhinos. They are faster but weaker, as far as I know (compared to Grizzlies)

Master Mind: except Mind-Control, 100% defenceless against anything. Can't even grind infantry.

[Chrono69x]

Cloning Vats functions no different than it was in Ra2.

Initiates: Have a problem with something being strong but short-ranged?

Virus: As far as I know, these require the same tech as the Sniper.

Yuri Clone: Same as RA2 version, but cheaper

Yuri Prime: Can control only one unit at a time, has Psychic Wave like Yuri Clone. This wave does some damage to nearby tanks. The unit can't do damage any other way.

Boomies can be produced early, but their missiles pale in power to the might of Dreads/Carriers. It's flexibility, not sheer power, that makes Boomers powerful.

Lashers are closer to Grizzlies than Rhinos. They are faster but weaker, as far as I know (compared to Grizzlies)

Master Mind: except Mind-Control, 100% defenceless against anything. Can't even grind infantry.


Cloning Vats functions no different than it was in Ra2.
Yep, and the only thing cloning vats are good for in RA2 is massing desos, which is an imbalance in most peoples eyes. You have to be damn lucky to stop mass desos as allies in RA2.

Initiates: Have a problem with something being strong but short-ranged?
lol, they're hardly short ranged for being basic infantry. They have longer range than cons and Gis when the Gis are undeployed, and have barely shorter range than GIs even when GIs are deployed. And when a GI is undeployed, an initiate will still kill it, and it doesn't even have to go through the hassel of pushing D a few times.

Virus: As far as I know, these require the same tech as the Sniper.
It does, but does a sniper leave a trail of gas that kills any other infantry around? And why should Yuri get a unit that an entire side has as its SPECIAL unit? It's supposed to be unique to that side, yet Yuri gets an upgraded version of it...

Yuri Clone: Same as RA2 version, but cheaper
Yep, same but cheaper. What is your point? You keep bringing RA2 into this as if it makes a difference. How does RA2 have anything to do with the "imbalanced Yuri side". There is no coorelation between the two. Unless you're trying to say that sovs in RA2 are unbalanced...and to tell you the truth, that question has been raised a million times as well. The difference is, sovs in RA2 aren't anywhere near AS unbalaned as Yuri is in YR.

Yuri Prime: Can control only one unit at a time, has Psychic Wave like Yuri Clone. This wave does some damage to nearby tanks. The unit can't do damage any other way.
Except for the small thing of HUGE mind control range (but before you say it, so did the YP in RA2...but you had to actually work for him) and being able to mind control buildings. Honestly..an entire building...?

Boomies can be produced early, but their missiles pale in power to the might of Dreads/Carriers. It's flexibility, not sheer power, that makes Boomers powerful.
Weaker missiles, yes, but they dont even come close to "Paling" in power. Their missiles are still strong enough to take out some of your most vital structures (Blab, refinery, war factory, radar) in one volley. That's more than enough damage needed. Just because they can't take out a CY as fast as a Dred can, doesn't make it less usefull...dreds dont typically target the strongest building in the game.

Lashers are closer to Grizzlies than Rhinos. They are faster but weaker, as far as I know (compared to Grizzlies)
They're not weaker. In fact, the two tanks are identical except for one thing.
The Lashers projectile speed is 80, while the grizzley's projectile speed is 60. That means the lashers bullets travel faster than the grizzleys. The refire rate is the same, just they hit their mark sooner and make it so the Lasher's shots miss a lot less than grizzley shots.

Master Mind: except Mind-Control, 100% defenceless against anything. Can't even grind infantry.

Except mind control? What more do you need?? Have you seen someone send JUST masterminds out? Hell no you haven't. Unless you've only played vs the comp, but i dont think they're even that dumb. And can't even grind infantry? Who needs to grind INFANTRY. At least the mind controllable type...
Whatever you dont want him mind controlling, just kill it. It's not hard. Push CTRL (bottom left or bottom right of your key board) and click on the unit with left click.

[Teron]

It just seems rather strange that a huge tank like the MM can't crush a footsoldier under it's track when even the basic tanks can do that.

EDIT: and Lashers as strong as Grizzlies? Why in the heck are people saying that they're the weakest then, if they're on par with the Allied version?

[SupSuper]

i apologize for mistakes in my list of stuff. i haven't played yuri on a long time, and didn't try YC/YP much. anyways, Initiates are not short-ranged, and like i said before, stick them in a building and you'll have a real powerful defense.
and Cloning Vats for Yuri are total overpower. i mean, yuri doesn't need it since he's got a great economy as it is, and still you're gonna give him more units for free?!? in RA2 it was useful, in YR it's plain overpowering.

[Teron]

Weird, this guide gives out certain differences between Grizzlies and Lashers.
http://dw.com.com/redir?asid=476890&astid=8&siteid=19&edid=107&destCat=14539&destURL=http%3A%2F%2Fdb.gamefaqs.com%2Fcomputer%2Fdoswin%2Ffile%2Fyuris_revenge_a.txt

[Chrono69x]

Weird, this guide gives out certain differences between Grizzlies and Lashers.
http://dw.com.com/redir?asid=476890&astid=8&siteid=19&edid=107&destCat=14539&destURL=http%3A%2F%2Fdb.gamefaqs.com%2Fcomputer%2Fdoswin%2Ffile%2Fyuris_revenge_a.txt

That's weird, cause rules.ini says differently. Was that guide published before the 1.001 patch?

[Teron]

Version 1.001 says the guide. The differences were mainly: lashers are faster, but Grizzlies have more sight. The tanks have different ROFs when both are elite.

[Statalyzer]

EDIT: and Lashers as strong as Grizzlies? Why in the heck are people saying that they're the weakest then, if they're on par with the Allied version?

Because people don't know what they are talking about.

Mags do not damage vehicles, they just lift them up into the air and bring them close.

No, you lift them in the air and drop them on other units.

Let's say an Allied/Soviet player wants to fight a basic tank battle with Yuri. They each spend the same amount of money on massing tanks, but Yuri replaces 4 tanks with 3 magnetrons. If the Allied/Sov wants to attack, he can't just move in from long range, the tanks will spread out. You have to gather nearby, then attack as one force. While he is gathering tanks together, the 3 mags pickup 3 Allied tanks and drop them on 3 others. Maybe he'll miss once, but still that's 4 tanks gone before the battle starts. Then the Allied/Sov player attacks. While his forces move into attack range and start firing, the mags go again. Now the Allied/Soviet player is down 8 tanks and the battle has just started.

If Yuri is attacking, he doesn't have to attack with his tanks. He just moves his force into mag range and boom instead tank kills. The Allied/Sov must run away and abandon his 3 tanks, which will be pulled in towards the whole force and be decimated, or else attack, minus the tanks which will be dropped on other tanks.

[Chrono69x]

Version 1.001 says the guide. The differences were mainly: lashers are faster, but Grizzlies have more sight. The tanks have different ROFs when both are elite.

I wouldn't know about sight...i have the map scouted before my war even goes up. So no unshrouding with tanks. I haven't noticed any speed differences, but i also never really played a Yuri that was running away with this tanks. And when they're both elite. Well hell, everything's different when they're elite. I was talking about basic forms.

[Teron]

Except the differeces I stated, the guide syas both are identical. Speed and Sight range differece are both 2 units, whatever it's reasoned with.
Grizz SIght: 8 , Lash sight: 6 according to that thing.

And the elite forms are identical except the other tank fires faster.

That guy said there was a possibility of mistakes and said that though the FAQ was final, he'd correct errors if sent to him. Dunno if he'd actually do it, tho...

[Navy SEAL]

Some people think Yuri is a little bit overpowered than he actually is. I beat Yuri easily when there is no superweapons. Sure, I can agree on some units in Yuris arsenal are a bit over powered and heres a list of them: Masterminds, Initiates, Boomers and Yuri Prime.

[Chrono69x]

Some people think Yuri is a little bit overpowered than he actually is. I beat Yuri easily when there is no superweapons. Sure, I can agree on some units in Yuris arsenal are a bit over powered and heres a list of them: Masterminds, Initiates, Boomers and Yuri Prime.

...and mags and slave miners, and the grinder, and disks, and the bio reactor, even the mcv...just about everything in SupSupers post one page back...

[Statalyzer]

I don't think masterminds are overpowered. It's being around overpowered mags and gatts that makes them overpowered. I don't think Yuri Prime is overpowered either - Tanya is still better. The cloning vats make him seem better though.

OTOH surprised the Gatts weren't mentioned.

[Navy SEAL]

I don't think Gatts are overpowered. They are good against infantry and aircraft but that's it. Ofcourse Yuri is the best option money-wise *cough* Empire in Warhammer *cough* but that's not the point.

[Chrono69x]

I don't think Gatts are overpowered. They are good against infantry and aircraft but that's it. Ofcourse Yuri is the best option money-wise *cough* Empire in Warhammer *cough* but that's not the point.

Ok. Gats are mainly used for AA right?
well what other AA unit / vehicle for any side can take out an entire paradrop before even one GI hits the ground?
What other AA unit can take out endless ammounts of terror drones without a scratch?
what other AA vehicle can FIRE ON THE MOVE?
None of em. Yuris gats are by far the supreme AA unit in the game. And mixed with everything he has that's "supreme" over the rest of their counterparts, it makes for a hell of an unbalanced unit AND side.

[Navy SEAL]

Use Grizzlies And Rhinos For Gods Sake!!!!!

[Chrono69x]

Use Grizzlies And Rhinos For Gods Sake!!!!!

For which part of it?
I gave you a list of reasons why it's overpowered as far as being an anti-air unit is concerned. I know there are other options, but it's not on the same level. My point was that it's far above and beyond any other anti-air vehicles in the game. Not that it wasn't up to par with say, a rhino tank. That'd be like me comparing a grizzley to an apoc. They're not quite on the same leve with eachother.

[Lu[s]ter]

The main problem for me is that he gets his heavy hitting naval units earliest. Its like he gets a dreadnaught free at the submarine pen. All you have early to counter boomers are rocketeers/destroyers. Also unlike AC/DN they cna sneak into range without you noticing and disappear immediately after. Also yuri is the only faction with a late game economy slave to brute with genetic mutator then grinder. Rinse and repeat. Soviets/allies need a late game economy.

the only overpowered units are


Magnetron- drop'n stuff kills/bringing into MC range
Boomer- Early cloaked DN
YP- It would be fine if he couldn't swim, like borris, but no he hovers over all terrain

[Statalyzer]

Use Grizzlies And Rhinos For Gods Sake!!!!!

Then Yuri just uses lashers, and adds a mag or two. See my first post on this page. Why do people act like Grizz and Rhinos are superior to lashers?

[nicotine]

rhinos are better than lasher

griz is faster (is it actually faster?)

but to let the master mind capture griz and rhino is better than to let it capture apoc and prism

[Chrono69x]

rhinos are better than lasher

griz is faster (is it actually faster?)

but to let the master mind capture griz and rhino is better than to let it capture apoc and prism

Yes, rhinos are better, but Grizz's are not. There is NO noticable difference between the two. And why is capturing an apoc or prism less effective than capturing a grizz or rhino?

[Teron]

Eh? You didn't get the point it seems.
I think he's trying to say that letting the MM capture a Grizz/Rhino than a Prism/Apoc.

[Chrono69x]

Eh? You didn't get the point it seems.
I think he's trying to say that letting the MM capture a Grizz/Rhino than a Prism/Apoc.

Ah ok, my bad. misinterpereted it :(

[smilodon]

STRUCTURES

Bio Reactor - Just like any other power plant... except you can stick up to 5 soldiers in it increasing its power output by 5 times with ease! You can just have one of these fully-powered maintaining a fully-fledged base (all buildings and some defences) without super weaponsAnd a nice ripe target to be raped right before an attack

Slave Miner - A mobile ore refinery with a minigun on top, what else is there to say? Also, if slaves are killed they'll be slowly remade. Other sides have to rebuild their miners if destroyed, and miners actually have to move back and forth from refineries (chrono miner only teleports heading back to refinery, not heading to ore)nice target for prisms

Psychic Radar - Besides providing basic radar system it also tells you when something is ordered to attack something within its range.what you do is find a place just out side of its range then rape Yuri's base

Grinder - Instead of being like the Service Depot of the other sides, this allows you to sell your vehicles. This wouldn't be so bad, but taking in account the immense psi powers Yuri has it's the easiest way of getting rich. Just send all enemy-controlled units to it and you'll be rich in no time.fair enough

Cloning Vats - Two soldiers for the price of one. Need I say more?
fair enough


Psychic Reveal - Allies need the Spy Satellite to show the whole map, which is a great expense in power. Soviets have the Spy Plane to show parts of the map, which can be easily taken out by AA units. Yuri can reveal any part of the map without any trouble whatsoever, it's just click-and-reveal.hit his radar and he loses map

Gattling Turret - Can fire at both ground and air units effectively and fire rate speeds up dramatically overtime. Other sides have separate ground/air turrets and they're still not so powerful.carppy range on ground

Tank Bunker - Tanks are tough enough as it is, but now sticking up in bunkers to cover them makes them extra tough. Specially useful for defense with gatling tanks, the only way to destroy the tank without destroying the bunker is through air.Sovs get Inf. bunker and allies gat moblie Inf. bunker that you can put anything in

Psychic Tower - Controls up to 3 units within range.crappy range

Genetic Mutator - Quickly get plenty of brutes. You can turn any infantry unit (enemy or otherwise) into brutes (under your control).Allies can teleport around the map and sozs get invincible tanks for a few minutes

Psychic Dominator - Unlike all other powerful superweapons, which give you quite some time to get your Force Shield up and prepare for the hit, this one acts almost instantly without warning, and besides the mass destruction it does it can also control enemy units. Starting to see a pattern?Sovs can fire a nuclear missile which leaves radiation

INFANTRY

Initiate - The basic and cheapest infantry unit, can burn any infantry unit quickly and at moderate range. A small group of them can also take out tanks with ease. Stick'em in a civilian building and they're very powerful.having truoble taking out infantry, nevermind Conscripts are fast and Gis' can rape buildings with ease

Virus - Cheaper and much easier to get than the British Sniper. Besides sniping infantry units, it also spreads some toxic thingy which lasts nearly forever and kills any infantry unit. Allows for easy takeout of enemy infantry defences.no attack v tanks/ air

Brute - A powerful and cheap infantry unit. Unlike most infantry units, it's best against vehicles/buildings, not soldiers.Seals>Brute

Yuri Clone - Quickly capture enemy units. Each can capture one unit.ONE

Yuri Prime - The one and only. Hovers around on some thingy (making it a really fast soldier), can control more than one unit (i think) and can do some sort of psychic attack (deploy option) which quickly wipes out soldiers nearby.dog>yuri prime

VEHICLES

Boomer - A sub in a dreadnought all in one. Need any more?yes AA ship

Lasher Tank - Cheaper than Rhino and about the same power.
wow his tank matches a grizzly, having trouble.
Gatling Tank - Unlike other sides' AA units, this one has a much faster firing rate and a group of them can take out both ground and air units quickly.****ty ground range (same for Tower)

Magnetron - Can pull any enemy vehicle (ground or naval) towards it. Let it fall on unstable ground and the enemy's vehicles go boom. If you don't want to bother to do that, stick a group of them with a group of gatling tanks and all those vehicles being pushed around will be quickly destroyed. Also, they have a range longer than even the French Grand Cannon so they can easily take out enemy buildings from a safe distance.a yes the power of a prism

Master Mind - The ultimate mind controlling unit. As if there weren't enough units to control the enemy, this one is yet another one. Unlike all others, this one has NO LIMIT on how much it can control. Sure, it overloads if it controls more than three units, but just get some repair IFVs (either from a ally or control them) and they are unbeatable. Besides, you can easily stop the overload by sending controlled units to the Grinder, again making you rich quickly.fair enough

Floating Disc - One hell of a flying unit. Besides having a fast firing rate and is good against everything, it can quickly hover over enemy power plants to shut down their power (thus putting out any AA buildings) or over refineries to steal their money. While it does that it can still fire at anything nearby, and since it's faster and cheaper than a Kirov it can be one hell of a unit to stop.anti power/ref capibility is same as Allied spy, plus it is always handy to have a few AA tanks around.


Yuri's units seriously lack armor, apart from miner, and also Allied chrono miners can quickly be pulled to safety, unlkie slave miner which has to be undeployed and is slow, plus if you are against britain allhe has to do is dot the landscape with a few snipers.

[Statalyzer]

rhinos are better than lasher

Not really, when you factor in the price tag.

[Bio Reactor]And a nice ripe target to be raped right before an attack

Since he will let you waltz into his base and attack his power...


what you do is find a place just out side of its range then rape Yuri's base

The point is: exact same price as Soviet radar, but has an extra bonus with no disadvantages.

[Cloning Vats]fair enough

True...Allies have the Ore Purifier, Soviets have the Industrial Plant.

[Gatt Tower]carppy range on ground

What is the range against ground of the flak/patriot? Again - same price tag, extra benefits, no disadvantage.

Quote:

Genetic Mutator - Quickly get plenty of brutes. You can turn any infantry unit (enemy or otherwise) into brutes (under your control).

Allies can teleport around the map and sozs get invincible tanks for a few minutes

The advantage of the genetic mutator is that it combines with the cloning vats to give Yuri potentially infinite money.

Quote:

Psychic Dominator - Unlike all other powerful superweapons, which give you quite some time to get your Force Shield up and prepare for the hit, this one acts almost instantly without warning, and besides the mass destruction it does it can also control enemy units. Starting to see a pattern?

Sovs can fire a nuclear missile which leaves radiation

The nuke you can guard against somewhat with a force shield, and you can really guard against the weather storm with the force shield (the addition of the force shield made the nuke slightly > the weather storm). But you cannot shield against the dominator except by guessing. So the dominator is already more powerful. But you also can control units if there are any in his base.

[slave miners]nice target for prisms

And Yuri will sit there and let your prisms attack his miners?

Overpowered is kind of another way of saying underpriced. Almost nothing would be overpowered if it cost more. Such as: Yuri gets a defense which is better than combining a patriot & pillbox into 1, but it costs the same as the patriot. If the Gatt Tower cost $1500, it wouldn't be overpowered.

[Teron]

What you say about Gattling Cannons ain't exactly true. Granted, they have the advantage of having the ability to fire at land targets - the equivalent of Sentry Guns and Pillboxes. The small difference is that, because also doubling as an AA turret, the Gatt Cannon is reliant on power. Yuri has the only anti-infantry machine gun emplacement reliant on power.

There was a time when Gatt's costed $2000, at least I remember seeing that price tag on'em. Back to that day, I wouldn't have built a single one: Gattling Tanks in Bunkers were simply better and a $1000 cheaper. Not to note that the basic defense cost more than the advanced guard tower.

EDIT: The joke of the Dominator is that it has absolutely zero effect to units outside it's small mind-control radius, not counting units next to exploding Oil Derricks.

EDIT 2: And to the Psychic Radar, you can't just "find a place outside it's range and rape Yuri's base" because it doesn't work like that (at least from the post I get the impression that the poster thinks that the Psychic Radar shows all orders for enemy units which are in it's radius, which is wrong): It shows all enemy orders targeted inside it's radius, the unit can be anywhere, it doesn't matter.

[Spider786]

God!

This arguement still going on?
:thoughtfu

[Teron]

Yes, they are trying to convert everyone to hate Yuri.

[nicotine]

i mean, if a side is too powerful to defeat, it's just not fair man~

[ghoststalker2004]

Magnetron - Can pull any enemy vehicle (ground or naval) towards it. Let it fall on unstable ground and the enemy's vehicles go boom. If you don't want to bother to do that, stick a group of them with a group of gatling tanks and all those vehicles being pushed around will be quickly destroyed. Also, they have a range longer than even the French Grand Cannon so they can easily take out enemy buildings from a safe distance.

Were you firing from a greater height when you struck the Grand Cannons?

[Teron]

I think he was. I've seen Mags in action from elevated positions, the range is just insane. It ain't enough to exceed a Grand Cannon's when on even ground, tho, that's for sure.

[smilodon]

EDIT 2: And to the Psychic Radar, you can't just "find a place outside it's range and rape Yuri's base" because it doesn't work like that (at least from the post I get the impression that the poster thinks that the Psychic Radar shows all orders for enemy units which are in it's radius, which is wrong): It shows all enemy orders targeted inside it's radius, the unit can be anywhere, it doesn't matter.
The psychic radar can't figure out unit movements/attacks outside of its range. What I meant was that you order the units just outside of its range and then attack his base.


Edit: Stat, few players will let you attack their power, but you should do it anyway.

[Spider786]

Exactly, its not too hard to beat yuri

[smilodon]

It takes people forever to figure out how to beat Yuri because he does not use conventional tactics.

[Statalyzer]

What you say about Gattling Cannons ain't exactly true. Granted, they have the advantage of having the ability to fire at land targets - the equivalent of Sentry Guns and Pillboxes. The small difference is that, because also doubling as an AA turret, the Gatt Cannon is reliant on power. Yuri has the only anti-infantry machine gun emplacement reliant on power.[/quote]

Yuri should never have power trouble, but the lack of a $500 defense is a slight disadvantage. It becomes most evident on maps with tech buildings - it costs him twice as much to stick a weapon by each derrick to prevent opposing engineers from getting them. But, that's usually cancelled out by the fact that thanks to brutes, he should get most of the tech derricks.

His other main weakness is the lack of an infantry-transporting vehicle. Of course, if he did have one, Soviets would be in big trouble.

Unconventional stuff like chrono legionnaire, terror drone, desolator, rocketeer, mirage, kirov? Every side has unconventional stuff. Most of Yuri's unconventional stuff isn't overpowered (at least the mind control units aren't overpowered).

Exactly, its not too hard to beat yuri

What force isn't going to lose to an Yuri force that costs less money to make?

[Chrono69x]

Yes, they are trying to convert everyone to hate Yuri.

Nobody's trying to convert anybody to hate Yuri, everybody already does. :p
You wonder why the game's dead, that's the reason...the unbalances.


You know, theory only goes so far. You can speculate about Yuri's flaws, weaknesses, and strengths all you want (hell, i do the same thing :D) but in game and how you apply what you think to be true is what matters. It's rediculous to say that Yuri is not overpowered, and that people just haven't been able to figure anything out to counter him. People have figured things out and Yuri finds a new way of stopping it every time. Unless it's a v small map (BF, DP) or unless the person using Yuri is only decent at best, you just can't win vs a Yuri player. You guys keep saying things like "well YP loses to a dog". A dog?? Who would let a dog kill their YP?? I'm surprised nobody's tried mentioning a deso bomb to be used vs gats...


It takes people forever to figure out how to beat Yuri because he does not use conventional tactics. I've seen this statement soo many times...
It doesn't take people forever to beat yuri because he doesn't use conventional tactics. It's because you're limited to what you can do to a Yuri player. Any unit that has the slightest advantage to ANY Yuri unit is completely cancelled out by an opposing Yuri unit, and not just cancelled out, but overwhelmed by it. Terror drones and gats are the prime example of this. Now that would be equal if every side recieved that kind of leniency, however they defenitely do not. There is no unit from any side that can overwhelm ANY Yuri unit. The best you could hope for is maybe killing off his infantry, but even they're soo diverse in their purpose that it's impossible to do that.

[Teron]

sooo diverse? Let's make a comparison between the possibilities allowed by British/Yuri infantry:
Basic: G.I. and Initiate serve the same purpose: fast, relatively powerful, garrisonable, cheap trooper

Anti-infantry: SEAL, Sniper, Virus, Clone, Dog, Brute if someone wants to use them for it.

Anti-tank: Brute, Guardian, Clone, Legionnaire

AA: Yuri has none: Allies have Rocketeers and Guardians

Anti-building: Heroes, SEAL, Legionnaire, perhaps Brute.

Scout: Dog, what do Yuri players use on the net? I generally scout a small area with lashers and then rely on the Radar to detect incoming attacks and uncover shourd. Maybe that's why I don't fare well that often :P

[Chrono69x]

sooo diverse? Let's make a comparison between the possibilities allowed by British/Yuri infantry:
Basic: G.I. and Initiate serve the same purpose: fast, relatively powerful, garrisonable, cheap trooper

One clearly desimates the other. But other than that *Small* detail, yea they're the same :lol:


Anti-infantry: SEAL, Sniper, Virus, Clone, Dog, Brute if someone wants to use them for it.
The difference is what can be used on each of those. A seal can be killed by a gat...what's going to kill a virus or a clone? rockies? Gats make it so they can't get close enough. The only thing that could is the sniper, but who here is going to use GB just in case they run into a Yuri player in QM?


Anti-tank: Brute, Guardian, Clone, Legionnaire

Again, you have a mobility issue. How can a GGI kill tanks when it's undeployed? it can't. How is it going to REACH tanks? it has to undeploy. The brute, however, doesn't have to go through all of these fuctions to kill a tank, just like an initiate doesn't have to go through all of the GI's nonsense to kill something.

AA: Yuri has none: Allies have Rocketeers and Guardians
Yuri has gat..you can't choose just infantry because the game doesn't revolve around JUST infantry.
But, you're right, he has none. That would completely make the game lose any sort of balance that it currently has.
Think about it. What are you going to attack with those rocketeers? And those GGI's?
What could possibly be coming at you that rockies and GGI's will kill that a Yuri player is sending? The only air unit that im aware of that Yuri has is UFOs, and their fire on the move, ability to dodge shots, health regeneration, and ability to kill infantry in one shot more than make it a match for any infantry.

Anti-building: Heroes, SEAL, Legionnaire, perhaps Brute.
yes. Heros, seals, brutes, Gi's and initiates, engineers, if you add brutes then i'd say rockies as well. But the NUMBER of things that can kill buildings isn't the problem, it's the effectiveness of each unit. An initiate can kill anything (tanks, buildings, other infantry) twice as effective as their cooresponding counter parts.



Scout: Dog, what do Yuri players use on the net? I generally scout a small area with lashers and then rely on the Radar to detect incoming attacks and uncover shourd. Maybe that's why I don't fare well that often :P

Probably not if you're waiting for tanks to scout (unless you play with unit count 10..lol). Brutes are good scouts since they anti-scout as well (dogs can't kill them). Brutes also heal themselves, so if they lay down a pill box / sentry gun, the brute can run from it and go around.



You've never played online? No wonder you dont realize how unbalanced yuri is :S

Ok, i'll try explaining this to you right here. The NUMBER of things that can kill buildings / tanks / infantry isn't the problem, it's the effectiveness of each unit.
-An initiate can kill anything (tanks, buildings, other infantry) twice as effective as their corresponding counter parts.
-A gat can kill tanks, infantry, and buildings 2-3 times better than their corresponding counterparts (IFVs / flack tracks).
-The BRUTE can kill tanks, buildings, infantry, better than their corresponding counter parts (GGI's, tesla troopers). I can't give you an exact number on brutes because it varies from object to object.
-The virus can kill enemy units way more efficiently than the Sniper because of its toxic gas.
-The slave miner can mine 25% more efficiently than their counter parts. They have more armour than any other miner / refinery in the game, and the slave miner gets free slaves if any of them die. They aren't any more vulnerable to attack because even if the Yuri player is incompetent enough to allow one to get attacked, they can easily rescue it before it dies because of it's tremendous armour.
-The MM is way more effective than its counter parts (BF and Apoc) because it can take over 3 of any of those. capture any 3 units without penalty, and even if it capture more, it can keep the 3 best units in the lot by just killing off the rest.

Then, as someone pointed out, in 2 on 2's or 3 on 3's the Yuri's side is exponentially more unbalanced. You have a Yuri player that has cross techs and it's unstopable. BF's with yuri clones in them. MM's with repair IFVs. Mags with BFs that have GGIs and a SEAL in them.

I'll say this again. Yuris side is drastically unbalanced. Don't give me that crap about not being intuitive enough or unorthodox enough to beat him because I've actually seen what Yuri can do in competition. Playing vs the computer isn't showing you what yuri can do with micromanagement. It's showing you what someone who has no brain would do with Yuri. He sits back, he turtles, and he throw a group of maybe 6 units at you ever 5 minutes. That's not how it works and that's not an effective way of playing, regardless of the side you're on.

[Statalyzer]

Then, as someone pointed out, in 2 on 2's or 3 on 3's the Yuri's side is exponentially more unbalanced.

not to mention: give Yuri a Sov MCV or barracks: you can clone conscripts, use genetic mutator, and grind them, making even more money than grinding initiates-turned-brutes. Iron curtaining units that you took with the dominator. Battle forts with initiates (only 3,000 vs 4,000 for a GGI BF, and will win 4-3). Infantry bunkers with initiates. Kirovs protected by discs. Cloning Tanya.

[smilodon]

Yes, Yuri can do that and so can his allies, thereby balancing it out, unless one team does not have a Yuri player on it.

[Teron]

Battle Bunkers with Initiates can be a real pain. As can Tank Bunkers with Rhinos or Apocs in them. Guess why they gave the Tank Bunker to Yuri and the Battle Bunker to Soviets?

[Statalyzer]

Tank Bunker with prisms too. At least they made it where Yuri's allies can't send units into Yuri's grinder.

[Teron]

What use it would be? Grinders just recoup the cost of the vehicle to make, so you can make a new one. This interferes with your tank production and takes out any bit of experience the unit might have had. On the other hand, a Service Depot is a cheap way to make your tanks shine like new, and keep their veterancy. Plus, they don't keep your factory occupied.

[Statalyzer]

Little stuff like infantry you get from selling buildings, paradrops on some maps if the opponents base is guarded, just send them into his grinder. Or MCV crates when you need the money more than the extra conyard.

[Teron]

Infantry you get from selling can be put into use - garrrisons of all sides can cause pretty much havoc.

And Chrono, as to your Brute comment, I witnessed about 10 Brutes being torn apart by a few Flak Troopers and a handful of Conscripts. Nothing nice to watch when you are in the receiving end. You lose $5000, they lose a Flak or two and about 4-5 Cons:
$500 + $600 is, at worst, $1100 whilst at minimum your losses are $2500 (assuming the Brutes are cloned - I played w/o superweapons)

[Statalyzer]

If a few initiates were mixed with those brutes, the flak troopers would be toast.

[zorgling25]

Rocketeers RAPE Yuri, plain and simple.
Gatts? can only fire at one and cylinders start over for each new target. Furthermore, concentrated Rockies slice through gatts. Their armor is CARDBOARD!
Other than gattling, Yuri has NO anti-air!
For soviets, use kirovs against Yuri.
There is NO such thing as pre-charging a gattling. For new targets, cylinders START OVER!

[Chrono69x]

Rocketeers RAPE Yuri, plain and simple.
Gatts? can only fire at one and cylinders start over for each new target. Furthermore, concentrated Rockies slice through gatts. Their armor is CARDBOARD!
Other than gattling, Yuri has NO anti-air!
For soviets, use kirovs against Yuri.
There is NO such thing as pre-charging a gattling. For new targets, cylinders START OVER!
Rockies dont even touch gats. Gats have more speed than rockies, can fire on the move, and out range rockies. How can a mass of rockies beat something that out ranges it, and is faster than em, and shoots while running away?
Concentrated rockies would never get near gats.
For soviets, you can't use kirovs vs yuri because again, gats fire on the move, are fast, and have long range.
Kirovs dont fire on the move (that'd be pointless), they're slow, and they have no range.

[UNkeeper]

I wonder how all these Yuri fans do against other Yuri fans when they DON'T play Yuri themselves. I'd like to see some of those matchups.

[Statalyzer]

roflmao @ "rockies > gatts"

There is such thing as precharging gatts. I've done it. Even w/o precharging, gatts can take care of Kirovs, and Yuri has discs also.

Not to mentioning when he gets sov tech tree, grinding MCVs = game over.

[smilodon]

1 gatt tank will get through 2-3 rockies before it is destroyed.
1 gatt tower wil get trough 5-6 rockies before it is destroyed, but drain a ton of power.
You could use a mixed force.

[Chrono69x]

1 gatt tank will get through 2-3 rockies before it is destroyed.
1 gatt tower wil get trough 5-6 rockies before it is destroyed, but drain a ton of power.
You could use a mixed force.
No...1 gat tank can get through 1000000 rockies before it's destroyed. Point being, a gat tank should never die to rockies.

You can't say how many rockies a gat tower can get through because that changes with the number of total rockies. If there's 10 rockies, a gat tower will kill them all. If there's 1000000 rockies, the gat tower will kill maybe 3..

[smilodon]

A gat tank has very little armor.

[Madge]

But the point my chrono friend is making is that if you micro your gat tank correctly, it wouldn't matter what kind of armor it has because the rockies would never touch it due to the range and speed of the gat tank.

[Statalyzer]

That depends...you can't keep running once the rockies get to your base and start chopping up stuff, but still you can beat a rockie force with much less than its price in gatts.

[Chrono69x]

That depends...you can't keep running once the rockies get to your base and start chopping up stuff, but still you can beat a rockie force with much less than its price in gatts.
But those rockies wont be attacking your base. Psychologically, are you going to keep attacking if you're suffering heavy losses from 1 or 2 tanks? Picture that for a second. You have maybe 20 rockies, but they're dropping like flies because of a gat tank or two. Are you really going to risk all of your rockies just to harm a building or 1 tank?
No way, you'll get skiddish and run off because in your mind there's no concievable way presenting itself to beat those gat tanks.

[Madge]

And that, my friend, is one problem I have.....knowing when to call off an attack and retreat to safety. :\

[zorgling25]

I have been converted! :angel:
Yes yuri is unbalanced.
However, there is a reason.
When YR came out, everyone was either good with Allies or Soviet.
Westwood made it easier for people to master yuri so that they could stand up to Ally and Sov masters on WOL

[Chrono69x]

I have been converted! :angel:
Yes yuri is unbalanced.
However, there is a reason.
When YR came out, everyone was either good with Allies or Soviet.
Westwood made it easier for people to master yuri so that they could stand up to Ally and Sov masters on WOL
lol...i really find that hard to believe. If that were the case, they would have balanced it 6 months after it was released, because there were more than enough people (hell, 2 months in people knew) posting about the imbalances and how Yuri is overpowered.
And what did Delphi do?
At first he said "there are no balance issues, you just have to know what to do ;)" (btw, as a side note...delphi sucked. He tried chrono legionair rushing on RA2 and got mad when it didn't work.)
Then he said "Ok, there are balance issues, i'll relay this to my co-workers, and we'll fix this in due time"
Wait a few months...no word.
Delphi: "We're working on it"
Few more months...still no word.
Delphi: "I'll talk to them"
Then they suddenly "dont have the resources" to patch the game, they shut down the message boards, and Generals comes out.

[Statalyzer]

If your gatts are running away the rockies would stop and attack your base.

[Chrono69x]

If your gatts are running away the rockies would stop and attack your base.

When you're running gats, you dont run them completely away from the rockies. The point of running away is to stay just far enough away to ensure you don't get hit. So yea...you go ahead and attack that base, i'll still be right there shooting down your rockies. What exactly is going to get killed at my base? You'd lose way more than i do killing anything with rockies.
Kill a bio reactor? that's what? 1-2 rockies that i need to kill to make up for it. That's already done with before you get to my base.

A war fac? That's just under 4 rockies...so killing 4 (and i'd have more than enough time to kill 4 rockies) would be easy enough...

[Statalyzer]

Ok the situation I'm talking about is if the guy has enough rockies to destroy your gatts if you don't run. You can't just run forever like people were saying. If he has 40 rockies to your 4 gatts, you can't just keep running, he'll reverse course halfway through your base and hit the other end. Of course, no Yuri player should ever get outnumbered that badly unless his opponent has Yuri+Allied tech tree.

[Chrono69x]

Ok the situation I'm talking about is if the guy has enough rockies to destroy your gatts if you don't run. You can't just run forever like people were saying. If he has 40 rockies to your 4 gatts, you can't just keep running, he'll reverse course halfway through your base and hit the other end. Of course, no Yuri player should ever get outnumbered that badly unless his opponent has Yuri+Allied tech tree.
well 40 rockies would have to be a pretty oblivious opponent...but 10 gats or so should be enough to take it out..and that'd be a hell of a lot cheaper. Financially, 1 gat = 1 rockie, so you could even do that and be better off than the allied (because of the Yuri eco).
And, like i said, it's not as if the gats will ever stop shooting. From the moment you leave your rockies open up until they're all dead, they'll be shot at. You'd probably kill a good $4-6000 before the yuri killed em all, but it still wouldn't be worth it.
I guess the point kind of is, it's never financially a good idea to make rockies vs Yuri.

[zorgling25]

Wow, you guys are still discussing the Rockies vs. Gatt issue? I didn't know it would last THIS long. Then again the argument with Jokujak went on quite a long time...

[Teron]

:P
Gotta love Gatts sprinkled around the base. Keeps those pesky Paradrops at bay.
btw, Discs are literal rubbish as AA. Three Rocketeers drop a Kirov much, much, much faster. Then again Allies don't need such things. Kirovs coming at your base? One Aegis will drop them fast, and at completely ridiculous rate if Elite.

[Chrono69x]

:P
Gotta love Gatts sprinkled around the base. Keeps those pesky Paradrops at bay.
btw, Discs are literal rubbish as AA. Three Rocketeers drop a Kirov much, much, much faster. Then again Allies don't need such things. Kirovs coming at your base? One Aegis will drop them fast, and at completely ridiculous rate if Elite.
Or you could use the much more practical means by using gats with yuri and GGI IFV's or GGI BF's as allies vs Kirovs...most maps with sea kirovs arent used, simply because sea maps are too large and it takes too long for kirovs to get to where they're going.

[Statalyzer]

Anyone using a Kirov on a sea map is asking for it unless they completely control the waves, with flak boats and Aegises on the roam otherwise.

[Teron]

Or asking the Yuri opponent to produce lots'o Discs to whittle them down or make a somewhat smaller but a bit more risky investment of making a stromg unit of Gatts to tear'em down...
God I hate Westwood for leaving Yuri halfway done....

[zorgling25]

...most maps with sea kirovs arent used, simply because sea maps are too large and it takes too long for kirovs to get to where they're going.
And because unless they're accompanied by sea scorps, rocketeers can cut them down unhindered.

[Statalyzer]

How is making gatts a risky investment? Yuri should have gatts anyway. And discs, after you've used them on the Kirovs, you can turn around and threaten to use them offensively if you're opponent has no sea AA. Then it's your opponents turn to say "Oh crap, dangerous air unit incoming."

[D00M]

Yuri isnt overpowered.

If you get a bunch of stuff mutated, use iron curtain or chronosphere to kill them. :dead:

Using rocketeers agaisnt gattling tanks?!?!? :freek: y would u do that? Use tanks

Masterminds: terror drones

Yuri Prime: uhh......anything as long as u have more than 1.

UFOs: any non infantry anti air

I admit boomers can be a little unfair (dreadnought and sub all in 1 and u dotn need battle lab) but think of it this way, use destroyers or dolphins to bring them to the surface, then attack using rocketeers. As for soviets, jsut use typhoons they can beat boomers anyway.

Initiates: can be overpowered on urban maps but try a forest maps. UhOh, mirage tanks, my initiates cant even get close. :wtf:

Brutes: Any anti infantry unit

Virus: tanks

gattling cannon: tanks

psychic towers: robot tanks

magnetrons: infantry

Psychic radar has a smaller viewing area than sov radar, allies have spy satellite.

Psychic dominator dont warn u but Weather storms dont give that much of a warning either. U know its gonna hit somewhere but u dont know where.... same as dominator except w/o "warning lightning storm created" message. Keep an eye on ur base and keep ur force field ready to use. :shifty: W/ nukes u do have a warning cuz a siren goes off where its gonna hit.

I know ppl combine these units and thats hard to beat but u can combine ur own units too. :devil:

And if ur not convinced, fight fire with fire. :flame: (use yuri against yuri)

[UNkeeper]

Yuri isnt overpowered.

If you get a bunch of stuff mutated, use iron curtain or chronosphere to kill them. :dead:

Using rocketeers agaisnt gattling tanks?!?!? :freek: y would u do that? Use tanks

Masterminds: terror drones

Yuri Prime: uhh......anything as long as u have more than 1.

UFOs: any non infantry anti air

I admit boomers can be a little unfair (dreadnought and sub all in 1 and u dotn need battle lab) but think of it this way, use destroyers or dolphins to bring them to the surface, then attack using rocketeers. As for soviets, jsut use typhoons they can beat boomers anyway.

Initiates: can be overpowered on urban maps but try a forest maps. UhOh, mirage tanks, my initiates cant even get close. :wtf:

Brutes: Any anti infantry unit

Virus: tanks

gattling cannon: tanks

psychic towers: robot tanks

magnetrons: infantry

Psychic radar has a smaller viewing area than sov radar, allies have spy satellite.

Psychic dominator dont warn u but Weather storms dont give that much of a warning either. U know its gonna hit somewhere but u dont know where.... same as dominator except w/o "warning lightning storm created" message. Keep an eye on ur base and keep ur force field ready to use. :shifty: W/ nukes u do have a warning cuz a siren goes off where its gonna hit.

I know ppl combine these units and thats hard to beat but u can combine ur own units too. :devil:

And if ur not convinced, fight fire with fire. :flame: (use yuri against yuri)

dude if you have to use Yuri to beat Yuri, you've just proven the point that Yuri is overpowered. As far as your "Brutes" comment, just WHICH anti-infantry unit would you use? Rockies? See above treatise on Gatts v. Rockies for info on that.

As far as Masterminds/terror drones sure that works too, if there are no Gatts.

I think the point they are trying to make is that although every unit has a counter, Yuri's counters are better developed and better able to be used in concert. Sure you can stop a Mastermind with a Terrordrone, but if his Gatts are better at mowin down your terrordrones than your terrordrones are at mowin down Masterminds, then the game is out of balance, which I think is the point.

[Statalyzer]

I admit boomers can be a little unfair (dreadnought and sub all in 1 and u dotn need battle lab) but think of it this way, use destroyers or dolphins to bring them to the surface, then attack using rocketeers. As for soviets, just use typhoons they can beat boomers anyway.

Rocketeers take forever to kill boomers - a boomer can sit there and pick apart your base in the meantime. Even with harriers, it takes 8 of them to kill a boomer. And if Yuri builds a boomer and then you build 8 harriers to sink it, he's way ahead in the money game. Typhoons > boomers at sea, yes, but how are you going to find the boomers? Waiting for them to surface and kill your conyard?

If you get a bunch of stuff mutated, use iron curtain or chronosphere to kill them.

Mutator covers a lot bigger range than i/c or chrono. Mutator basically prevents allies/soviets from ever using infantry outside of an ifv, flak, battle forts, or garrison, and since infantry can't fight from flaks, all Soviet infantry but conscipts are basically useless aginast Yuri with supers on. Not to mention that the mutator can give Yuri an endless supply of cash.

Psychic dominator dont warn u but Weather storms dont give that much of a warning either. U know its gonna hit somewhere but u dont know where.... same as dominator except w/o "warning lightning storm created" message. Keep an eye on ur base and keep ur force field ready to use. W/ nukes u do have a warning cuz a siren goes off where its gonna hit.


That's not the warning that matters. The warning is this: with a storm, the clouds gather before the lightning strikes, so you have time to save a cruicial building or two with a force shield/iron curtain. Same for nuke, you see it fall and can get a good idea of where it's going to land. With psychic dominator, using the force shield is a complete guess - by the time you know where it's being used, it's too late to save any buildings.

Psychic radar has a smaller viewing area than sov radar

:wtf: Both radars give you the entire minimap. The radars are exactly the same except the Yuri radar gets the bonus attack line reveal for no cost.

magnetrons: infantry

Unless the Yuri player builds a virus or a gatt...

Initiates: can be overpowered on urban maps but try a forest maps. UhOh, mirage tanks, my initiates cant even get close.

Which is why you don't send initiates against mirages. You use magnetrons and uproot the trees. Initiates cost the same as GIs and twice as much as cons. They are more than 2x as good as conscripts, and are better than GIs. That's the appropriate comparison to make. Initiate-Mirage is not a good comparison. That would be like comparing a spy to a V3 launcher.

[D00M]

Rocketeers take forever to kill boomers - a boomer can sit there and pick apart your base in the meantime. Even with harriers, it takes 8 of them to kill a boomer. And if Yuri builds a boomer and then you build 8 harriers to sink it, he's way ahead in the money game. Typhoons > boomers at sea, yes, but how are you going to find the boomers? Waiting for them to surface and kill your conyard?

If u have enough sea units around ur base they can spot the boomer, which can be hard on certain maps but possible. All u need to do is attack it to bring it to the surface, it will lose hp, and give u time to target it w/ other units. I said boomers are a little unfair, but just put a frw flak tracks/IFVs near ur con yard and u should be fine.

Mutator covers a lot bigger range than i/c or chrono. Mutator basically prevents allies/soviets from ever using infantry outside of an ifv, flak, battle forts, or garrison, and since infantry can't fight from flaks, all Soviet infantry but conscipts are basically useless aginast Yuri with supers on. Not to mention that the mutator can give Yuri an endless supply of cash.

Brutes arent hard to take down. The IC or chrono weakens the force, then u finish it off w/ a seal ifv or BF.

That's not the warning that matters. The warning is this: with a storm, the clouds gather before the lightning strikes, so you have time to save a cruicial building or two with a force shield/iron curtain. Same for nuke, you see it fall and can get a good idea of where it's going to land. With psychic dominator, using the force shield is a complete guess - by the time you know where it's being used, it's too late to save any buildings.

U can see wierd psychic stuff when they 1st use the dominator too, it dont give u as much of a warning as the lightning storm, but if ur observant u can still use the force shield in time.

Both radars give you the entire minimap. The radars are exactly the same except the Yuri radar gets the bonus attack line reveal for no cost.

I was talking about the reveal compared to spy plane sorry for not being accurate.

Quote:
magnetrons: infantry


Unless the Yuri player builds a virus or a gatt...

As i said:
I know ppl combine these units and thats hard to beat but u can combine ur own units too.


Which is why you don't send initiates against mirages. You use magnetrons and uproot the trees. Initiates cost the same as GIs and twice as much as cons. They are more than 2x as good as conscripts, and are better than GIs. That's the appropriate comparison to make. Initiate-Mirage is not a good comparison. That would be like comparing a spy to a V3 launcher.

GIs can beat initiates if theyre deployed and who would leave a mirage siting there when they see a magnetron shooting every tree in sight?

As far as Masterminds/terror drones sure that works too, if there are no Gatts.

I think the point they are trying to make is that although every unit has a counter, Yuri's counters are better developed and better able to be used in concert. Sure you can stop a Mastermind with a Terrordrone, but if his Gatts are better at mowin down your terrordrones than your terrordrones are at mowin down Masterminds, then the game is out of balance, which I think is the point

Id like to see a gatt take on an iron curtained drone.

dude if you have to use Yuri to beat Yuri, you've just proven the point that Yuri is overpowered. As far as your "Brutes" comment, just WHICH anti-infantry unit would you use? Rockies? See above treatise on Gatts v. Rockies for info on that.

rockies, snipers, SEALs, Tanya, Boris, heck even 3 or more conscripts/GIs can take on a brute. Wut i meant by my last comment was that if you are 100% sure u cant beat yuri as allies or sovs just PLAY as yuri against yuri and stop arguing w/ ppl on these boards about it already.

[UNkeeper]

rockies, snipers, SEALs, Tanya, Boris, heck even 3 or more conscripts/GIs can take on a brute. Wut i meant by my last comment was that if you are 100% sure u cant beat yuri as allies or sovs just PLAY as yuri against yuri and stop arguing w/ ppl on these boards about it already..
Dude you are starting to irritate me now. look at what you've said above. everything in the list except the conscripts requires some sort of upgrade to achieve, and most of em require a BLab. Yuri people throw out all these counters, but you dont have access to em until LATE GAME. Brutes come right out of Rax, 20 seconds after the first "new construction options" you can have your brute...and for someone who only has 2 posts, why are you worried about what we argue about? remember, its a message board. usually message boards have...DISCUSSIONS...and when you whiff a game as badly as WW/EA whiffed this one, you're sure to have discussions about it. Tell me this, doom, what is your favorite team to play with? Do you use anything else?

[D00M]

Dude you are starting to irritate me now. look at what you've said above. everything in the list except the conscripts requires some sort of upgrade to achieve, and most of em require a BLab. Yuri people throw out all these counters, but you dont have access to em until LATE GAME. Brutes come right out of Rax, 20 seconds after the first "new construction options" you can have your brute...and for someone who only has 2 posts, why are you worried about what we argue about? remember, its a message board. usually message boards have...DISCUSSIONS...and when you whiff a game as badly as WW/EA whiffed this one, you're sure to have discussions about it. Tell me this, doom, what is your favorite team to play with? Do you use anything else?

Use conscripts or GIs they make swiss cheese out of brutes. U can amke 5 conscripts for the price of a brute, or 3 GIs for an extra $100. And i dont care about the diff teams i use different strategies depending wut team im on. And about the irritating tihng, its mutual its irritating that ppl fight about yuri being overpwoered when the onyl units that i am convinced it overpowered is the boomers. It dont need a battle lab to build one and its hard to stop them, even then if u have a few flak tracks or IFVs u can stop the missiles.

[Statalyzer]

If u have enough sea units around ur base they can spot the boomer

ie. if you spend several times as much money you can guard all the sea passages so a boomer can't sneak through.

I said boomers are a little unfair, but just put a frw flak tracks/IFVs near ur con yard and u should be fine.

A few won't cut it, he can attack another building out of range, or just target the flaks/ifvs. It's going to cost you more than it cost him, and he doesn't have to interrupt tank production.

Brutes arent hard to take down. The IC or chrono weakens the force, then u finish it off w/ a seal ifv or BF.

In the meantime, you still are really just killing your own units that he took over.

U can see wierd psychic stuff when they 1st use the dominator too, it dont give u as much of a warning as the lightning storm, but if ur observant u can still use the force shield in time.

By the time Yuri's face appears, it's too late to use force shield.

I was talking about the reveal compared to spy plane sorry for not being accurate.

Reveal > spy plane. Cannot be shot down.

Id like to see a gatt take on an iron curtained drone.

Yes iron curtain drones are tough for Yuri to beat - basically Yuri loses 9 units. But same happens when Yuri uses dominator, except he gains the 9 units his opponent loses. Yes dominator is a $5000 weapon and the IC is only $2500...but Yuri makes up for that by using his mutator to turn 20 or so slaves into brutes, and grind them, making $5000 every 5 minutes.

GIs can beat initiates if theyre deployed and who would leave a mirage siting there when they see a magnetron shooting every tree in sight?

Initiates > GIs...an initiate paradrop kills buildings just as fast w/o having to deploy and GIs will beat an equal money initiate force that attacks, but if the GIs have to try and attack the initiates, they will lose. Plus a mass of GIs will just get mutated anyway.

And ok, fine, you move the mirages away (although you've lost 2 b/c one was picked up and dropped on another), then the initiates can move through the forrest (for whatever reason you wanted them to).

[D00M]

ie. if you spend several times as much money you can guard all the sea passages so a boomer can't sneak through.

Fair enough.

A few won't cut it, he can attack another building out of range, or just target the flaks/ifvs. It's going to cost you more than it cost him, and he doesn't have to interrupt tank production.

Tracks and IFVs are mobile, and u can always scatter them.

In the meantime, you still are really just killing your own units that he took over.

Yeah so? thats what his superweapon is supposed to do, mutate units. IC makes units invincible and chronosphere teleports them. It's fair.

By the time Yuri's face appears, it's too late to use force shield.

Theres like 2 seconds where u see clouds and all b4 u see his face, use it then.


Reveal > spy plane. Cannot be shot down.

Spy plane reveals more.

Yes iron curtain drones are tough for Yuri to beat - basically Yuri loses 9 units. But same happens when Yuri uses dominator, except he gains the 9 units his opponent loses. Yes dominator is a $5000 weapon and the IC is only $2500...but Yuri makes up for that by using his mutator to turn 20 or so slaves into brutes, and grind them, making $5000 every 5 minutes

U cant control something when its iron curtained.

Initiates > GIs...an initiate paradrop kills buildings just as fast w/o having to deploy and GIs will beat an equal money initiate force that attacks, but if the GIs have to try and attack the initiates, they will lose. Plus a mass of GIs will just get mutated anyway.

True. But who would attack them undeployed? Lets look at this moneywise: Conscripts:$100 and cant beat initiates
GIs:$200, can beat initiated deployed but not undeployed.
initiates:$200 more expensive than conscripts and can beat them, same price as GIs and can beat them undeployed, but not deployed. So theyre fair. The GIs can be mutated, but if ur america and/or have a tech airport u can get them for free :D .


And ok, fine, you move the mirages away (although you've lost 2 b/c one was picked up and dropped on another), then the initiates can move through the forrest (for whatever reason you wanted them to).

True, but if ur britain just use snipers or if not SEALs to take them out. Magentrons cant kill them. They can be mutated, but if ur opponent was soviet or allied he could kill them anyway w/ IC or chrono anyway, and 1 brute aint gonna do much damage.

[UNkeeper]

[QUOTE=D00M]The GIs can be mutated, but if ur america and/or have a tech airport u can get them for free .

[QUOTE]

yup. more free brutes for Yuri. Its useless.

[D00M]

Garrison them.

[Statalyzer]

If you garrison them...we're back to the fact that garrisoned initiates are much better than garrisoned GIs or initiates.

True. But who would attack them undeployed?

Huh? GIs to attack have to undeploy and move forward giving the intiates a slight advantage due to deploying time lag. On ground, with the same amount of GIs and initiates, whoever attacks will probably lose. So far, it's even. But initiates are better when garrisoned and...
/or have a tech airport u can get them for free
...are better when paradropping from a tech airport.

And Yuri is more likely to get the airports than you are. Your scouting dogs are gonna do a great job guarding his derricks from those brutes.

U cant control something when its iron curtained.

Irrelevant to what I said. Iron curtaining 9 drones is not going to save your 9 other units from being dominated. If you try use iron curtain to stop the dominator from controlling units, how are you going to know which units to I.C.?

Tracks and IFVs are mobile, and u can always scatter them.

If you scatter them then missiles will get through. Unless you build a bunch of them, in which case you now get outtanked and lose the game anyway.

Theres like 2 seconds where u see clouds and all b4 u see his face, use it then.

Yes you see red clouds the whole freaking map is covered with them.

[D00M]

If you garrison them...we're back to the fact that garrisoned initiates are much better than garrisoned GIs or initiates.

Ur missing the point, ur GIs cant be mutated in a building.

Huh? GIs to attack have to undeploy and move forward giving the intiates a slight advantage due to deploying time lag. On ground, with the same amount of GIs and initiates, whoever attacks will probably lose. So far, it's even. But initiates are better when garrisoned and...

time lag? theyre not siege choppers, the deploy and undeploy instantly.

...are better when paradropping from a tech airport.

And Yuri is more likely to get the airports than you are. Your scouting dogs are gonna do a great job guarding his derricks from those brutes.

Build pillboxes or sentry guns

Irrelevant to what I said. Iron curtaining 9 drones is not going to save your 9 other units from being dominated. If you try use iron curtain to stop the dominator from controlling units, how are you going to know which units to I.C.?

Ur the one getting off topic, wut does psy dominator have to do w/ ICed drones?

If you scatter them then missiles will get through. Unless you build a bunch of them, in which case you now get outtanked and lose the game anyway.

If u scatter them theyre not gonna hit nething, they attack where the units are. WHo cares if they get through then?

Yes you see red clouds the whole freaking map is covered with them.

No the whole map turns red, im talking about clouds where the dominator is going off.

[EliteGi]

Errr :wtf: Having fun are we? OK, here's my 2 pennies :D

Yuri is overpowered. No question about it. As by reading the posts on this thread, it's been established that if you are to counter most of Yuri's units, you will be spending more cash and in most cases you need to climb further up the tech tree. Here are some comparisons

Conscript / Initiate / GI: Conscripts are the best to garrison buildings with, in my view. Simply because they cost half as much as its counterparts and so you can garrison as many buildings for half the price. In the start of a game (on urban) its easy with soviets to pump out a few conscripts and garrison a load of buildings with conscripts. But, the initiate's weapon is waaay overpowered when they garrison buildings. So if there are tech airports for yuri, then initiates win. GI's weapon is almost good as the initiates and they have more armour.

Flak / Gattlin / Patriot Missiles: Flak is best at shooting down rockies, good against planes, good against mass-rockets but crappy at the heavy armour of the kirov. Gattlin Is good against rockies, good against planes, good against mass-missiles and decent against kirovs (because they have a chance to build speed). Patriot missiles are crap against rocketeers, good against planes, very good against high armour and crap against mass-rockets. But as with most things for yuri, not only does his gattlin cannons have good aa, but also have good ag, acting as 2-defences-in-one. But i prefer IFV's and Flak traks to gattlin tanks because flak traks can transport 5 guys and the IFV is own0rz with a sniper or engy.

Power: Yuri ownz easy. Also, if you are yuri and sum1 is engying you and your base seems empty, undeploy your power plants and say: haha, initiates own0rz y0u !!11!!1 :wtf:

Naval: Everyone knows the boomer is overpowered. Terrible that you get an underwater rocket launcher with dual torpedo ports without having to tech. Its unlikely that you are not going to spend loads of cash stopping a bomer rush. But a good way is to use desolators, if you are Iraq. Another way is Seige choppers. If you build a submarine or 2 and have quite a few seige choppers on hand, then you can shoot the boomer and take it out with the seige choopers. Or you could wait for a few to submerge and the seige choppers are good at taking out the missiles then you could take out the boomers because you know where they are. Shoot the water to find them. Or you could place some prism tanks around the shore if you have teched, but thats unlikely. Harriers cost too much and the airfield + harriers can be taken out with one load from a boomer, which is stupid. If you use destroyers, you'll always spend more than the Yuri player. Rockies ARE crap at taking out the armour of the boomer. Robos are an option, but no real good way for the allies.

Mind Control: :\ I just played a skirmish, Bay of pigs, 5 brutes vs me, i was Great Britiain. At the start i captured all the derricks and the airports and garrisoned the building. Pumped out a few tanks and build defence for my base and my expansions. I managed to get 24 (yes, 24) elite GGI's and 6 elite Snipers. I put them into 6 battle fotresses and i had 6 elite mobile repair vehicles (IFV's with engies in them, and yes I like making my units elite). So i numbered the BF's and i used ctrl+alt to protect my BF's with the mobile repair vehicles (mrv). Then off i went owning abolutely everthing on the map. So I took out 4 brutes, 3 of which were allied and 1 was soviet. Next was a yuri base. I just put my BF's by the entrance and owned all his tanks and defence. (by now all of my BF's were elite, too). But then he came with a few magnetrons and 2 masterminds. Picked up my BF's (they were shooting back in the air and killed the magnetrons :D) But then the masterminds got close enough and captured 2 of my BF's. I made my BF's kill the masterminds and they did so. But the BF's that Yuri captured killed one of my BF's, and my BF's killed both of the captured BF's. So now i only had 3 BF's. Then I completely owned the Yuri base and won the game with 6,000,000 points. But my point is; I had absolutely brilliant units, elite GGI's and snipers inside BF's are amazing. I owned everything all the allies and soviets had easily, at one point i killed 4 apocs, a few war miners and an attack sqaud of rhinos and flak traks simultaneously without sustaining hardly any damage, which my MRV's repaired :D Same goes with the allied bases; my BF's owed 3 destroyers they had next to their base (i dunno why, they did on this map), loads of grizzly tanks, snipered all the men in their base and took out passine chrono miners at the same time with no danger. Then Yuri sends like 6 units and takes out 3 of my OwneR BF's :flame:

[Statalyzer]

Build pillboxes or sentry guns

At a derrick that you don't own you cannot build them. Yuri will get the derricks because your scouting dogs can't guard the derricks while your eng is in route, because they can't attack brutes.

Ur the one getting off topic, wut does psy dominator have to do w/ ICed drones?

I'm comparing superweapons. The IC drones takes out 9 enemy units. The dominator takes out 9 enemy units AND gives them to the Yuri player. Advantage: Yuri. Yes the invulnerablity is very powerful but Yuri still has even more powerful stuff available.

If u scatter them theyre not gonna hit nething, they attack where the units are. WHo cares if they get through then?


The Yuri player will attack the buildings with his boomer unless he needs to attack the ifvs/flaks. If you scatter them so as to protect every area of a built up base, then either you have them so spread out that they won't stop the missiles (because it takes several ifvs/flaks firing en route to stop both missiles), or else you have built so many AA units that you have lost the ground war.

time lag? theyre not siege choppers, the deploy and undeploy instantly.

In a real life game, it can take them a second to stop moving, deploy, and fire when you hit D. That's what I meant.

[D00M]

Yuri is overpowered. No question about it. As by reading the posts on this thread, it's been established that if you are to counter most of Yuri's units, you will be spending more cash and in most cases you need to climb further up the tech tree. Here are some comparisons

Its worth it cuz u can use the same units again if they decide to use the same strategy. (unless they were killed)

Conscript / Initiate / GI: Conscripts are the best to garrison buildings with, in my view. Simply because they cost half as much as its counterparts and so you can garrison as many buildings for half the price. In the start of a game (on urban) its easy with soviets to pump out a few conscripts and garrison a load of buildings with conscripts. But, the initiate's weapon is waaay overpowered when they garrison buildings. So if there are tech airports for yuri, then initiates win. GI's weapon is almost good as the initiates and they have more armour.

1 siege chopper> a yuri garrisoned building

Power: Yuri ownz easy. Also, if you are yuri and sum1 is engying you and your base seems empty, undeploy your power plants and say: haha, initiates own0rz y0u !!11!!1

Well, u can see the reactor has people in it, thats a nice defense.

Naval: Everyone knows the boomer is overpowered. Terrible that you get an underwater rocket launcher with dual torpedo ports without having to tech. Its unlikely that you are not going to spend loads of cash stopping a bomer rush. But a good way is to use desolators, if you are Iraq. Another way is Seige choppers. If you build a submarine or 2 and have quite a few seige choppers on hand, then you can shoot the boomer and take it out with the seige choopers. Or you could wait for a few to submerge and the seige choppers are good at taking out the missiles then you could take out the boomers because you know where they are. Shoot the water to find them. Or you could place some prism tanks around the shore if you have teched, but thats unlikely. Harriers cost too much and the airfield + harriers can be taken out with one load from a boomer, which is stupid. If you use destroyers, you'll always spend more than the Yuri player. Rockies ARE crap at taking out the armour of the boomer. Robos are an option, but no real good way for the allies.

True, in my opinion boomers are the ONLY overpwoered yuri unit. The prob w/ it is westwood didnt make more than 1 yuri naval unit so they compacted all the features into one, making it too powerful. Weakness: air units.

Mind Control: I just played a skirmish, Bay of pigs, 5 brutes vs me, i was Great Britiain. At the start i captured all the derricks and the airports and garrisoned the building. Pumped out a few tanks and build defence for my base and my expansions. I managed to get 24 (yes, 24) elite GGI's and 6 elite Snipers. I put them into 6 battle fotresses and i had 6 elite mobile repair vehicles (IFV's with engies in them, and yes I like making my units elite). So i numbered the BF's and i used ctrl+alt to protect my BF's with the mobile repair vehicles (mrv). Then off i went owning abolutely everthing on the map. So I took out 4 brutes, 3 of which were allied and 1 was soviet. Next was a yuri base. I just put my BF's by the entrance and owned all his tanks and defence. (by now all of my BF's were elite, too). But then he came with a few magnetrons and 2 masterminds. Picked up my BF's (they were shooting back in the air and killed the magnetrons ) But then the masterminds got close enough and captured 2 of my BF's. I made my BF's kill the masterminds and they did so. But the BF's that Yuri captured killed one of my BF's, and my BF's killed both of the captured BF's. So now i only had 3 BF's. Then I completely owned the Yuri base and won the game with 6,000,000 points. But my point is; I had absolutely brilliant units, elite GGI's and snipers inside BF's are amazing. I owned everything all the allies and soviets had easily, at one point i killed 4 apocs, a few war miners and an attack sqaud of rhinos and flak traks simultaneously without sustaining hardly any damage, which my MRV's repaired Same goes with the allied bases; my BF's owed 3 destroyers they had next to their base (i dunno why, they did on this map), loads of grizzly tanks, snipered all the men in their base and took out passine chrono miners at the same time with no danger. Then Yuri sends like 6 units and takes out 3 of my OwneR BF's

U still annhilated him, y r u complaining? The object of RA2 and YR is to annhilate the enemy ur gonna lose a few units theyre not invincible, mind control can be annoying, but its well known tactic, ppl dont complain about it in regular RA2, most of yuris units are weak in ground battles he RELIES on mind control, if he didnt have it he would be crushed.

At a derrick that you don't own you cannot build them. Yuri will get the derricks because your scouting dogs can't guard the derricks while your eng is in route, because they can't attack brutes.

for the price of a brute, u can get a dog and 3 conscripts for for a extra $100 for the allied side, a dog and 2 GIs. Brutes dont fare to well against machine gun fire.

I'm comparing superweapons. The IC drones takes out 9 enemy units. The dominator takes out 9 enemy units AND gives them to the Yuri player. Advantage: Yuri. Yes the invulnerablity is very powerful but Yuri still has even more powerful stuff available.

As i said before:

mind control can be annoying, but its well known tactic, ppl dont complain about it in regular RA2, most of yuris units are weak in ground battles he RELIES on mind control, if he didnt have it he would be crushed.

The Yuri player will attack the buildings with his boomer unless he needs to attack the ifvs/flaks. If you scatter them so as to protect every area of a built up base, then either you have them so spread out that they won't stop the missiles (because it takes several ifvs/flaks firing en route to stop both missiles), or else you have built so many AA units that you have lost the ground war.

When i meant scatter them i meant when a missile is coming at a group of AA press the x key and scatter them. Not scatter them around ur base.

In a real life game, it can take them a second to stop moving, deploy, and fire when you hit D. That's what I meant.'

1 second isnt much of a lag, initiates cant take out that many GIs in 1 second.

Overall, u guys need to just let ppl play as yuri. Its really sad that u all hate yuris strategies. Ur acting like yuri players are cheaters or something. I tinhk u ppl should jsut let people play yuri and stop complaining. Yuri is fair for the most part. Many of his units are weak so he relies on tactics like mind control, magnetrons etc. The only units that is technically overpowered is the boomer as for the reasons u stated, but toehr than that the counters work and arent that expensive.

[SirSnake]

i hate yuri cause hes bald and has a stupid tatoo.

[EliteGi]

Its worth it cuz u can use the same units again if they decide to use the same strategy. (unless they were killed)
That's besides the point, because it's the same for everything in the game. While your building defence and are distracted by his little boomer rush, he's teching and pumping out floating disks, masterminds and magnetrons.
1 siege chopper> a yuri garrisoned building
I never said you cant take out the building, I said the Yuri weapon in the building is far too strong.
Well, u can see the reactor has people in it, thats a nice defense.
No, you cant see it has people in it. Get your facts right.
True, in my opinion boomers are the ONLY overpwoered yuri unit. The prob w/ it is westwood didnt make more than 1 yuri naval unit so they compacted all the features into one, making it too powerful. Weakness: air units.
The floating disk is a pretty lame excuse for a weakness
U still annhilated him, y r u complaining? The object of RA2 and YR is to annhilate the enemy ur gonna lose a few units theyre not invincible, mind control can be annoying, but its well known tactic, ppl dont complain about it in regular RA2, most of yuris units are weak in ground battles he RELIES on mind control, if he didnt have it he would be crushed.

That's Not my point, and it was 'them' not 'him'. My point is that I had almost invincible units vs AI. Allies threw everything at them, got nowhere near stopping them. Soviets threw everything they had at them, didn't stand a chance. Yuri attacks with a few units and breaks my attack into half. The mastermind range should be shorter, it should cost 500 more, and should die quicker when it has overloaded. Ive got no problem with Yuri prime + clone because they are balanced in my eyes.
for the price of a brute, u can get a dog and 3 conscripts for for a extra $100 for the allied side, a dog and 2 GIs. Brutes dont fare to well against machine gun fire.
But they are very good against tanks and men. He is a scouting unit, dogs cant attack him so if you guard a tech derrick against him, he'll simply kill your dog and the derrick belongs to him.
Overall, u guys need to just let ppl play as yuri. Its really sad that u all hate yuris strategies. Ur acting like yuri players are cheaters or something. I tinhk u ppl should jsut let people play yuri and stop complaining. Yuri is fair for the most part. Many of his units are weak so he relies on tactics like mind control, magnetrons etc. The only units that is technically overpowered is the boomer as for the reasons u stated, but toehr than that the counters work and arent that expensive.
Nice. 1) I do let people play as Yuri. 2) I dont hate the Yuris strategies, I dislike the level in which Yuris units are overpowered. 3) I never said Yuri players are cheaters and so did nobody else. 4) I said, if I'm fighting a Yuri player, I get on with it. When I'm hosting, I never say no Yuri or no France. 5) Yes, Yuri is fair as far as most of his units are concerned but there are a few units which spoil it. 6) The floating disk is overpowered and mastermind are overpowered. 7) You're saying that if you want to stop a boomer rush, you have to get aa units, a naval yard and boats and still find a way to take the boomers out... and that aint expensive?

[smilodon]

With 9 ICed drones you can take out more then 9 tanks, as after they destroy an infested tank they can then move onto another one. Also, most of yuri's units have little or no armor and low range. the gatt tanks have very little anti ground range.

[Statalyzer]

Presumably he won't just let those 9 tanks sit in the middle of his force.

U still annhilated him, y r u complaining?

He annihilated him b/c he's an intelligent human and had about a $24000 force of the Allied sides' most powered units against a $7500 force - and he still lost half his forces.

for the price of a brute, u can get a dog and 3 conscripts for for a extra $100 for the allied side, a dog and 2 GIs. Brutes dont fare to well against machine gun fire.

Brutes are much faster than conscripts/GIs however. A dog and 2 GIs only beats a brute if you are looking right at the GIs and can deploy them before the brute is in MG range.

And once Yuri has a derrick, he can protect it just as effectively for only 2/3rds the cost, or several times as effectively for only twice the cost, since a gatt is a couple of pillboxes and a flak cannon rolled into one.

1 siege chopper> a yuri garrisoned building

That's true for every side! 1 seige/rockie > infinite garrisoned buildings with inititiates, conscripts, or GIs in it. The Yuri garrison is still about 50% more powerful in the meantime.

Overall, u guys need to just let ppl play as yuri.

As long as both sides have a Yuri player, everything is fair. If one side has an Allied/Soviet/Yuri combo and one side has just Allies or Sovs, if all teams have about the same ability then the Yuri side should win 4 out 5 games because they will never run out of cash.

Many of his units are weak so he relies on tactics like mind control, magnetrons etc.

Mind control isn't really overpowered except for Yuri Clones in battle forts when Yuri teams with Allies.

But saying "He's so weak he needs to use magnetrons" is like saying "Allies navy is so weak they have to rely on dolphins."

[Shadow]

Yuri isn't overpowered, it's easy to rape a yuri player in qm, ive won many, many more times than i've lost against yuri players... i just don't see why people find it hard to counter?!!


care to share your strategies....if they include a cheat you don't count

[D00M]

That's besides the point, because it's the same for everything in the game. While your building defence and are distracted by his little boomer rush, he's teching and pumping out floating disks, masterminds and magnetrons.

Boomers= $2000
4 Flak Tracks= $2000
2 destroyers/ typhoons= $2000
1 destroyer/ typhoon and 2 flak tracks= $2000 or 2 IFVs= $2200

They can be countered ez, and while there teching up u can too.

No, you cant see it has people in it. Get your facts right.

No, u get ur facts right, the yellow liquid in an empty reactor is only half full, when in a reactor w/ ppl in it its completely full, u cant tell how full it is tho for all u know there could only be one unit in it.

The floating disk is a pretty lame excuse for a weakness

I was talking about boomers weakness, they cant attack them and when theyre surfaced u can hit them hard.

That's Not my point, and it was 'them' not 'him'. My point is that I had almost invincible units vs AI. Allies threw everything at them, got nowhere near stopping them. Soviets threw everything they had at them, didn't stand a chance. Yuri attacks with a few units and breaks my attack into half. The mastermind range should be shorter, it should cost 500 more, and should die quicker when it has overloaded. Ive got no problem with Yuri prime + clone because they are balanced in my eyes.

Its the comp theyre stupid, the allied and soviet comps jsut throw tanks at ya w/ no real strategy. And i nvr saw the comp use a combo like that. If the yuri was a real player and the allies and soviets were comps then that explains everythng cuz a human beat ur forces not a lame comp.

But they are very good against tanks and men. He is a scouting unit, dogs cant attack him so if you guard a tech derrick against him, he'll simply kill your dog and the derrick belongs to him.

U can always take the derrick back.

an infested tank they can then move onto another one. Also, most of yuri's units have little or no armor and low range. the gatt tanks have very little anti grounWith 9 ICed drones you can take out more then 9 tanks, as after they destroy d range.

Thank you, at least someone agrees with me on the iron curtain drones strategy.

He annihilated him b/c he's an intelligent human and had about a $24000 force of the Allied sides' most powered units against a $7500 force - and he still lost half his forces.

I can beat a brutal comp w/o much trouble most of the time.

Brutes are much faster than conscripts/GIs however. A dog and 2 GIs only beats a brute if you are looking right at the GIs and can deploy them before the brute is in MG range.

And once Yuri has a derrick, he can protect it just as effectively for only 2/3rds the cost, or several times as effectively for only twice the cost, since a gatt is a couple of pillboxes and a flak cannon rolled into one.

Yuri dont have non powered defenses so its fair. And u can always destroy the cannon then move ur enfgineer in (and dont use the GIs to do it of course)

That's true for every side! 1 seige/rockie > infinite garrisoned buildings with inititiates, conscripts, or GIs in it. The Yuri garrison is still about 50% more powerful in the meantime.

And ur point? initiates are more expensive than conscripts and the same price as GIs, but GIs can deploy, initiates cant.

As long as both sides have a Yuri player, everything is fair. If one side has an Allied/Soviet/Yuri combo and one side has just Allies or Sovs, if all teams have about the same ability then the Yuri side should win 4 out 5 games because they will never run out of cash.

3 on 2 really isnt fair........ and slave miners are the worst miners in my opinion, theyre easy to destroy and dont go to and from the base, theyre sitting ducks, and 2 or 3 elite rockies can annhilate them. If they send gatts, pull them back and send a few grizzlies to take them out then use rockies again.

Mind control isn't really overpowered except for Yuri Clones in battle forts when Yuri teams with Allies.

But saying "He's so weak he needs to use magnetrons" is like saying "Allies navy is so weak they have to rely on dolphins."

they onyl have a 5 unit limit and cst $5000 a piece.

And yuris ground forces are real weak, unlike the allioed navy, even if they didnt have dolphins, they could use destroyers againsst subs.

[Madge]

Man oh man. I know this is all opinion, but even the makers of YR said that Yuri was unbalanced.

[Chrono69x]

I'm not even going to bother reading d00ms posts, cause he's obviously a ****ing retard. But i am going to say, the 9 ICed drones WILL only kill 9 tanks max when you're playing vs Yuri.
You see, Yuri just sends those 9 infested tanks into the Grinder and there ya have it, you get the money for those tanks, plus the drones, and you get rid of the drones.
The only problem you'd have is possibly being out tanked, but luckily for Yuri he can turtle pretty well ;)

EDIT: I'm also going to say this. If you have limited online experience, or you didn't start playing online until right around the time chat went offline, your opinion means jack.
Basically, if you weren't even top 1000 material within a year and a half of YR coming out, you really don't know anything about the game short of what any noobs might have told you (and by noobs, i mean those who played tour of egypt with crates 24/7).

[smilodon]

Chrono, you made 1 assumption in your post, which is that he can get his tanks to his grinder in time.

[Chrono69x]

Chrono, you made 1 assumption in your post, which is that he can get his tanks to his grinder in time.
And how can he not? If you see an IC about to get started, you're not gonna make a real agressive assault...you will feint to make him use his curtain early, but there is no full fledged attack in that feint.

[Madge]

And how can he not? If you see an IC about to get started, you're not gonna make a real agressive assault...you will feint to make him use his curtain early, but there is no full fledged attack in that feint.

Chrono, lots of these guys don't have the experience as you, so a lot of times you open their eyes in the wisdom you preach. Thank you. ;)

[Massacure]

so a lot of times you open their eyes in the wisdom you preach

Really? I could have sworn that a majority of the people are arrogant and just keep argueing until they decide they are beaten and tell you to **** off. :rockbrow: I won't list any examples. ;)

[Chrono69x]

Really? I could have sworn that a majority of the people are arrogant and just keep argueing until they decide they are beaten and tell you to **** off. :rockbrow: I won't list any examples. ;)
lol, thx massacure, at least someone understands :(
And madge, the only reason i post what i do is hope that SOME people might gain something out of it (you, audi, whoever else). Then I eventually just get fed up with the stupid ****ing nonsense they post and i just say "screw it...they're really not worth all the time i've just spent on these posts", so i post something like i did earlier (how d00ms is a ****ing retard).

[Statalyzer]

And ur point? initiates are more expensive than conscripts and the same price as GIs, but GIs can deploy, initiates cant.

My point is, that in buildings, it's silly to say intiates aren't overpowered b/c seige kills them in buildings - that's a weakness for all 3 sides. Initiates outside of buildings are as good as GIs and inside buildings are much better.

3 on 2 really isnt fair........

Sorry for my ambiguity...I meant Allied/Soviet/Yuri vs 3 players who are all either Allied or Soviet.

and slave miners are the worst miners in my opinion, theyre easy to destroy

I hope you are joking. 8 harriers kills a war miner or a chrono miner, but only take a slave miner down to yellow health.

theyre sitting ducks, and 2 or 3 elite rockies can annhilate them.

2 or 3 elite rockies can take out a war miner even faster. How do you plan on getting those rockies elite anyway?

If they send gatts, pull them back and send a few grizzlies to take them out then use rockies again.

With the money you spent on rockies/grizz, he can build his gatt or two and then lashers + 1 mag to kill your grizzlies.

U can always take the derrick back.

I'm sure he'll just leave the derrick wide open. :rolleyes:

And u can always destroy the cannon then move ur enfgineer in (and dont use the GIs to do it of course)

You will have a harder time taking out cannon then he will have taking out a pillbox.

[Yuri BFs]they onyl have a 5 unit limit and cst $5000 a piece.

They have an insane range for mind control inside a bf, plus you mix some GGIs and Yuri Clones and maybe 1 virus together. Especially with mags, only have to pull a unit like 1 square closer.

Boomers= $2000
4 Flak Tracks= $2000
2 destroyers/ typhoons= $2000
1 destroyer/ typhoon and 2 flak tracks= $2000 or 2 IFVs= $2200

2/destroyers/typhoon won't find the boomer until it fires. Plus if you are on a map like Isle of War, you have to guess which side he's going to come from, so there's a 50% chance his boomer will be on the other side. And no, you can't stay in the middle, then there is a 100% chance you're DDs will not detect the boomer b4 it fires.

2 flaks/2 IFVs won't stop the missiles. With 4 flaks/ifvs, he can still hit another portion of your base unless you build compactly (suicide if supers are on). You can't guard a whole stretched base with just 4 unless you spread out so that not all 4 can guard any one spot (and then his missiles get through your AA).

Yuri also has the best anti-ship defense in the game (besides a SEAL/Tanya against someone stupid enough to not escort their carrier/dread): mags pulling them out of the water.

[monty_bass]

Yuri is pretty washed up and he uses crappy technolgy, give me a prism tower anyday!

[Chrono69x]

Yuri is pretty washed up and he uses crappy technolgy, give me a prism tower anyday!
Please...read the rest of the thread before you decide to post. You might find some "enlightening" posts....
I don't know why I'm saying this...but, a prism tower isn't practical to use because 1) it's a stationary defense structure...meaning you can go AROUND it, and 2) it costs 1500
So let's put those two together. It costs a lot and it doesn't move. In other words...it's no good.

But i'll put it in even easier terms for you. Yuri is NOT pretty washed up. He uses very unbalanced technology / units, give me a mag to kill your prism tower anyday!

[EliteGi]

Agree on everything. D00m, if you're going to reply, make valid statements ffs, like we say that initiates are overpowered in buildings and you say how to take out the buildings. And almost every 'counter' you come up with has some fault such as costing too much or is n00bish. Such as if a yuri player has his brute by a tech derrick and captures it then builds a gat cannon, he's not going to forget about that derrick and happily hopes that the gat cannon fends off all attacks. If you attack it with grizzly's (best option) then he can build another gat cannon, or build a barracks there, and produce brutes.

lol, fed up of qm's now! Ive played suming like 12 games, only lost 2 of em, and thanks to the disconnectors ive got 2 wins and 2 losses on my record :\ :D

[Madge]

...If you attack it with grizzly's (best option) then he can build another gat cannon, or build a barracks there, and produce brutes.


Lol, or worse, have a psychic tower ready and take over the grizzlies. And, to anyone who doesn't like Chrono's posts, you need to play him to find out he's legitimate. I could prolly beat most of you who discredit him, and he blows me away easily. :cool:

[Chrono69x]

Lol, or worse, have a psychic tower ready and take over the grizzlies. And, to anyone who doesn't like Chrono's posts, you need to play him to find out he's legitimate. I could prolly beat most of you who discredit him, and he blows me away easily. :cool:
d00m, i'm still waiting for your incredible post that's supposed to blow us all away and discredit thousands who've played the game before you. Those thousands played this game when it was in its prime...when good players actually played. I could go on after over a year of retirement from YR and still beat 99% of the players on there. I know i could because I have.
What does that prove?
It proves that the people playing now have no clue wtf they're doing with any side. You can't judge how strong a side is if the people using it suck.

[UNkeeper]

You can't judge how strong a side is if the people using it suck..

Amen, brother, preach that gospel.

[D00M]

You can't judge how strong a side is if the people using it suck..

True, but I judge it on the units strength and weaknesses. I cant even play online cuz i cant connect for some reason, but i play skirmish and i use mods which dramatically enhance the AI and I learned that the only Yuri unit which is overpowered is the boomer. Everything else Ive tried and have been annhilated. U cant even get close w/ magnetron if the base is full fo grand cannons. UFOs can be eaten for breakfast no matter how many u use, and masterminds can be destroyed as fast as a terror drone infected one w/ the brainwave overload. Clones and YP can be annhilated w/ jsut about anything, and the superweapons are jsut crap, who online is stupid enough to cluster 9 units together and let them be dominated, people might do it to IC or chrono them, but when the dominator is ready and u can see the timer at 0:00? Not many people do that. The mutator isnt much of a superweapon either, u make a ton if brutes, then they can all get annhilted by one seal. They could send them to the grinder tho for cash or power (at least thats what i do) though, giving them cash. Thats the only advantage of the mutator. Free brutes+Grinder= cha-ching.Other than the boomer and the mutator, Yuris crap.

My point is, that in buildings, it's silly to say intiates aren't overpowered b/c seige kills them in buildings - that's a weakness for all 3 sides. Initiates outside of buildings are as good as GIs and inside buildings are much better.

Yuri has no other really strong ground defenses, psychic towers take over units too slow and u need like 2 or 3 to take a small force quickly, and gattling cannons are crap against tanks.Som people thinks yuris defneses are perfect and can be if palyed right, but unless theres only one entry into your base, its not cost effective and will take over $15000 for a medium to large base. Power isnt an issue though cuz of bio reactor abilty. I could never figure out hwo to use Yuris defenses, u mind control tanks and defend them w/ gat cannons, hard to destroy if u have enough, but against tnaks it dont really work cuz it takes liek 1 seconds to tank a 2nd ttank w/ mind control.

Sorry for my ambiguity...I meant Allied/Soviet/Yuri vs 3 players who are all either Allied or Soviet.

If the person is a constant player as yuri of course he can beat them, if u have enough experience u can have a larger win ratio. As they say, practice makes perfect.

I hope you are joking. 8 harriers kills a war miner or a chrono miner, but only take a slave miner down to yellow health.

1. war and chrono regenerate health, slave dont
2. 3 elite rockies> slave miners in like 10 seconds.
3. Slave miners are a sititng target they dont retreat to base, they just sit in the middle of an ore field, they have armor, but they need it. U can stop them form g4tting cash easily, jsut use a sniper, virus, or desolator to destroy the slaves ive done it before.

2 or 3 elite rockies can take out a war miner even faster. How do you plan on getting those rockies elite anyway?

If you see a few GIs/inits/Conscripts undefended, kill them. Basically if u send a few into an undefended area u can take out troops and tanks, if they retreat or send gatts out, retreat them to ur base, theyll either leave, or be foolish and go into the base and get slaughtered.

With the money you spent on rockies/grizz, he can build his gatt or two and then lashers + 1 mag to kill your grizzlies.

fair enough

I'm sure he'll just leave the derrick wide open.

fair enough

You will have a harder time taking out cannon then he will have taking out a pillbox.

Costs twice as much it should be harder to kill.

They have an insane range for mind control inside a bf, plus you mix some GGIs and Yuri Clones and maybe 1 virus together. Especially with mags, only have to pull a unit like 1 square closer.

Used that strategy it works somewhat. U need allied and yuri tech to pull that off tho and that can be a pain to get unles u have an ally who graciusly lend u their clones or BF.


2/destroyers/typhoon won't find the boomer until it fires. Plus if you are on a map like Isle of War, you have to guess which side he's going to come from, so there's a 50% chance his boomer will be on the other side. And no, you can't stay in the middle, then there is a 100% chance you're DDs will not detect the boomer b4 it fires.

fair enough but as soon as it surfeaces u can trap it, u lose a bulding but u got the boomer. Hopefuly if its the CY that u have a WF and a SD.

2 flaks/2 IFVs won't stop the missiles. With 4 flaks/ifvs, he can still hit another portion of your base unless you build compactly (suicide if supers are on). You can't guard a whole stretched base with just 4 unless you spread out so that not all 4 can guard any one spot (and then his missiles get through your AA).

Ive seen a flak cannon and a flak trooper stop 3 boomers.

Yuri also has the best anti-ship defense in the game (besides a SEAL/Tanya against someone stupid enough to not escort their carrier/dread): mags pulling them out of the water.

Each one can only take one at a time, just keep some DN or ACC offshore to take them out.

I don't know why I'm saying this...but, a prism tower isn't practical to use because 1) it's a stationary defense structure...meaning you can go AROUND it, and 2) it costs 1500
So let's put those two together. It costs a lot and it doesn't move. In other words...it's no good.

But i'll put it in even easier terms for you. Yuri is NOT pretty washed up. He uses very unbalanced technology / units, give me a mag to kill your prism tower anyday!


PSychic tower and gatlting cannon are stationary therefore no good, if a mag attacks a PT, send a few grizzles, it would have to drop what its doing to attack them and if u have more than 1 then theyre toast.

Yuri is pretty washed up and he uses crappy technolgy, give me a prism tower anyday!

Amen brotha.

Lol, or worse, have a psychic tower ready and take over the grizzlies.

Psy towers are crap they take over one unit then take forever to take another one, theyre only good in large numbers.

Agree on everything. D00m, if you're going to reply, make valid statements ffs, like we say that initiates are overpowered in buildings and you say how to take out the buildings. And almost every 'counter' you come up with has some fault such as costing too much or is n00bish. Such as if a yuri player has his brute by a tech derrick and captures it then builds a gat cannon, he's not going to forget about that derrick and happily hopes that the gat cannon fends off all attacks. If you attack it with grizzly's (best option) then he can build another gat cannon, or build a barracks there, and produce brutes.

Gatts are crap aginst tanks altho brutes can produce a threat. Ahh, the power of snipers/SEALs.

It proves that the people playing now have no clue wtf they're doing with any side. You can't judge how strong a side is if the people using it suck.

Same goes w/ experienced dudes, theyre good with Yuri because they paly alot with yuri. Practice makes perfect. I go by what the units can do, not how good the players are, i bet if ppl constantly whooped u w/ allies oy sovs u would say theyre overpowered too.

[Madge]

True, but I judge it on the units strength and weaknesses. I cant even play online cuz i cant connect for some reason, but i play skirmish and i use mods which dramatically enhance the AI and I learned that the only Yuri unit which is overpowered is the boomer.

I stopped reading after that. :rolleyes: Dude, if you haven't played online, it's a whole new world and you would not win using the same tactics vs. humans. Trust me. The comp still can not play like humans. You ever seen the comp, even if it is "enhanced" use a magnetron to juggle 4 or 5 rhino tanks so that they can't even attack? Or use a magnetron to pick up a miner and drop him on a cliff instantly blowing it up? Or use one rockie to pick off your power plant to distract you so that you pay attention to it and not to the paradrop on the other side of your base?

I bet you even build a wall around your con yard and use stationary defenses to defend your base.

[tallica52]

True, but I judge it on the units strength and weaknesses. I cant even play online cuz i cant connect for some reason, but i play skirmish and i use mods which dramatically enhance the AI and I learned that the only Yuri unit which is overpowered is the boomer. Everything else Ive tried and have been annhilated. U cant even get close w/ magnetron if the base is full fo grand cannons. UFOs can be eaten for breakfast no matter how many u use, and masterminds can be destroyed as fast as a terror drone infected one w/ the brainwave overload. Clones and YP can be annhilated w/ jsut about anything, and the superweapons are jsut crap, who online is stupid enough to cluster 9 units together and let them be dominated, people might do it to IC or chrono them, but when the dominator is ready and u can see the timer at 0:00? Not many people do that. The mutator isnt much of a superweapon either, u make a ton if brutes, then they can all get annhilted by one seal. They could send them to the grinder tho for cash or power (at least thats what i do) though, giving them cash. Thats the only advantage of the mutator. Free brutes+Grinder= cha-ching.Other than the boomer and the mutator, Yuris crap.



Yuri has no other really strong ground defenses, psychic towers take over units too slow and u need like 2 or 3 to take a small force quickly, and gattling cannons are crap against tanks.Som people thinks yuris defneses are perfect and can be if palyed right, but unless theres only one entry into your base, its not cost effective and will take over $15000 for a medium to large base. Power isnt an issue though cuz of bio reactor abilty. I could never figure out hwo to use Yuris defenses, u mind control tanks and defend them w/ gat cannons, hard to destroy if u have enough, but against tnaks it dont really work cuz it takes liek 1 seconds to tank a 2nd ttank w/ mind control.



If the person is a constant player as yuri of course he can beat them, if u have enough experience u can have a larger win ratio. As they say, practice makes perfect.



1. war and chrono regenerate health, slave dont
2. 3 elite rockies> slave miners in like 10 seconds.
3. Slave miners are a sititng target they dont retreat to base, they just sit in the middle of an ore field, they have armor, but they need it. U can stop them form g4tting cash easily, jsut use a sniper, virus, or desolator to destroy the slaves ive done it before.



If you see a few GIs/inits/Conscripts undefended, kill them. Basically if u send a few into an undefended area u can take out troops and tanks, if they retreat or send gatts out, retreat them to ur base, theyll either leave, or be foolish and go into the base and get slaughtered.



fair enough



fair enough



Costs twice as much it should be harder to kill.



Used that strategy it works somewhat. U need allied and yuri tech to pull that off tho and that can be a pain to get unles u have an ally who graciusly lend u their clones or BF.


.

fair enough but as soon as it surfeaces u can trap it, u lose a bulding but u got the boomer. Hopefuly if its the CY that u have a WF and a SD.

2

Ive seen a flak cannon and a flak trooper stop 3 boomers.



Each one can only take one at a time, just keep some DN or ACC offshore to take them out.



PSychic tower and gatlting cannon are stationary therefore no good, if a mag attacks a PT, send a few grizzles, it would have to drop what its doing to attack them and if u have more than 1 then theyre toast.



Amen brotha.



Psy towers are crap they take over one unit then take forever to take another one, theyre only good in large numbers.



Gatts are crap aginst tanks altho brutes can produce a threat. Ahh, the power of snipers/SEALs.



Same goes w/ experienced dudes, theyre good with Yuri because they paly alot with yuri. Practice makes perfect. I go by what the units can do, not how good the players are, i bet if ppl constantly whooped u w/ allies oy sovs u would say theyre overpowered too.
bullshi't. complete bullshi't. if u havent even played online u have no f'ucking idea what ur talking about. the AI is crap, even when enhanced. there is no challenge like a human player. the other guys send a whole mess of gatts, viruses, mags, and a YP over 2 ur base. u have 9 tanks. he lifts the tanks and the gatts shred them. all ur infantry gets killed by viruses. ur stationary defenses are all gone because of YP. and the rest of ur base? all mind controlled and sold. so basically u cant argue with any of these people because ur just a n00b whos never played online. i know its not ur fault, but just dont pretend that ur more expierienced then the people ur arguing with. :mad:

[Massacure]

True, but I judge it on the units strength and weaknesses. I cant even play online cuz i cant connect for some reason, but i play skirmish and i use mods which dramatically enhance the AI and I learned that the only Yuri unit which is overpowered is the boomer

You just threw your credability out the window.

[EliteGi]

lol, give it up d00m, everyone here has played online against real people and know how and why Yuri is overpowered. Lets just say umm...








OwNeD

[Chrono69x]

d00ms, i skimmed your post...but im honestly just sick and tired of people who DONT play competitively online coming in and talking about how they know what the games like. This includes you, Teron, and many others who claim to know the whole story.
You have no clue what it's like. That's not a bad thing. I love helping out new players...ask people like Madge, Sel, Audi, etc. It's when you're a new player and you think you know it all that pisses me off.

You mentioned a lot of defensive things in the game.
Just because i have some time on my hands, i'm going to try and explain things to you very simply. Just read carefully and try to grasp what im saying.

Ok, so you do your plan and make those defensive buildings. Now what? I'll tell you. You've spent soo much on defensive structures, and power for those structures, that you cannot protect your miners. For every prism tower, tesla coil, or psychic tower you make, I'm up about 2 tanks on you. That means, that i win any tank battle by a margin of more than 2 tanks because of those extra shots fired.

If you're confused up to here, let me know what you were confused about and i'll try to clarify it.

Ok, so you lose any tank battle you engage in. "So what?", you think. "He still can't attack me because he can't get through my awsome defense".
Well you're partially right and partially wrong. You're eating away at the ONE ore patch you control the entire game. You can't proceed to new ore patches because you dont have the mobile force to do it. A crippling portion of your funds went into defensive buildings and power, so you have no way of catching up in terms of mobil force.
So what does that mean to you?
It means three things. One, you can't protect ore miners. By not protecting your ore miners, i completely kill any economy you may have. So realistically, you can only mine at that one patch you have, and as soon as that's gone, you can only mine there when it grows back...which is painfully slow.
Two, you cannot expand and protect a new ore source because of number one. You have no money to do so because of killing off the miners, and if you try to protect your miners, you lose any mobile force you have due to out tankage on my part, so you lose not only the tanks but your miners as well. This time you're worse off than number one.
And finally, three. Any ore source you do not control, i have the ability TO control. Anything you can't / don't get, i can get. This means even MORE money for me, and with that money, i have more than the necessary means to kill you. Whether it be by sheer power and just running a huge mass of tanks through your small protected base, or whether i decide to go for a more "seige" type route, killing you off with ranged weapons.
If i'm allies, then you really have no chance since you can't shoot down prism tanks' shots (and you can't kill the prism tank because of the tanks i have there protecting it. Suiciding all of your tanks on my prism tanks is just dumb because i have all the money in the world to do what i want, while you have a limited economy). If i'm sovs, you still don't have a chance. I can go a mix of apocs and v3's and just push you back slowly but surely.



Now i realize this is a long post, but please realize it's to your benefit and the benefit of others if you read this. This only talks about the futility in "turtling", or massing / hiding behind defensive structures. I have other posts elsewhere that talk about different aspects of the game.

And as always, if you're not arrogant and don't come off as a know-it-all, I'm more than willing to help. By posting this, i realize i may come off as an arrogant SOB, but if you talk to those that know me, I'm actually attempting to be somewhat nice and offer some form of help. Whether or not it's my place to extend my help is all in the eye of the beholder. But as long as some people appreciate what i do, i'll continue to do it.

EDIT: Wow...200 damn posts...that's a lot. And i bet 99% of them were arguing with people about how the game is played :(
But as long as it helps, w/e.

[EliteGi]

Nice bit of wisdom there :cool: It's true @ the turling, it applies to every cnc game. Its only wise to build defensive structures if you need them in circumstances: eg you captured a tech derrick and need to build a pillbox from other engineers :rolleyes: Only use prism towers and tesla coils in some situations such as you are being tank rushed and you know which way the tanks are coming/going. I'm not the best at RA2, I'm better at TS truth be told, but ya should take Chrono69x's advise. Go to www.ea.com and send them your problem, playing online is so much better than playing the AI. :D

[Madge]

Doom, I'm sorry if I've sounded mean in my posts. I hope we don't scare you away from the forums. I learned a lot from playing with guys here and it would good for you if you could ever get online. There are two ways to play. 1) against the comp 2) against humans. I play differently when I want to play the comp to win. Sometimes I play the comp just to learn a certain map and how to stretch my base on it, not exactly to win.

One of the differences in playing the comp and humans is that the comp starts out with about 50000 credits and can build all kind of base defense, whereas humans can't do that, so instead when you play humans, you don't see them wasting money on base defense but build vehicles instead, for offence and defense.

There is also a computer and gaming problems forum here. Maybe someone there can help you, and if so I'd like to play some games with you.

[EliteGi]

Yup, I admit myself that I like to build a nice big pretty base :D I've got some owner pics
www.freewebs.com/wayne_styla/images/1.jpg
www.freewebs.com/wayne_styla/images/2.jpg
www.freewebs.com/wayne_styla/images/3.jpg
www.freewebs.com/wayne_styla/images/4.jpg
www.freewebs.com/wayne_styla/images/5.jpg
N00bish - yeah. Fun - yeah. lol, it won't win me any matches online but ya gotta love a bitta n00bness :D

:( how do u post images?? :\

[SupSuper]

True, but I judge it on the units strength and weaknesses. I cant even play online cuz i cant connect for some reason, but i play skirmish and i use mods which dramatically enhance the AI and I learned that the only Yuri unit which is overpowered is the boomer. Everything else Ive tried and have been annhilated. U cant even get close w/ magnetron if the base is full fo grand cannons. UFOs can be eaten for breakfast no matter how many u use, and masterminds can be destroyed as fast as a terror drone infected one w/ the brainwave overload. Clones and YP can be annhilated w/ jsut about anything, and the superweapons are jsut crap, who online is stupid enough to cluster 9 units together and let them be dominated, people might do it to IC or chrono them, but when the dominator is ready and u can see the timer at 0:00? Not many people do that. The mutator isnt much of a superweapon either, u make a ton if brutes, then they can all get annhilted by one seal. They could send them to the grinder tho for cash or power (at least thats what i do) though, giving them cash. Thats the only advantage of the mutator. Free brutes+Grinder= cha-ching.Other than the boomer and the mutator, Yuris crap.mangetron's outrange even grand cannons. on flat ground, at least. and we're not talking about how easily yuri units can be killed, we're comparing them with the same sort of unit on the other sides. say, UFO you'll not find a flying unit with that much power. i mean, causes lots of damage, can shut down power and steal money, etc.
and dominator can be used without any units for it to control, the main point of it it's the whole damage it causes and it's quickness. nuclear missile and weather storm take some good time to activate after a player uses them, while dominator is pretty much instant. and just because AI is dumb enough to just use dominator on units doesn't mean humans are. and obvioulsy yuri guys aren't gonna use the brutes they get out of the mutator, they sell them and get lots of money for some other much powerful units.
Yuri has no other really strong ground defenses, psychic towers take over units too slow and u need like 2 or 3 to take a small force quickly, and gattling cannons are crap against tanks.Som people thinks yuris defneses are perfect and can be if palyed right, but unless theres only one entry into your base, its not cost effective and will take over $15000 for a medium to large base. Power isnt an issue though cuz of bio reactor abilty. I could never figure out hwo to use Yuris defenses, u mind control tanks and defend them w/ gat cannons, hard to destroy if u have enough, but against tnaks it dont really work cuz it takes liek 1 seconds to tank a 2nd ttank w/ mind control.Psychic Towers aren't meant to be used as main defences. and compared to other side's turrets, Gatling Cannon is only one that is equally good against ground and air units. and it speeds up and all of that crap. and you always have Tank Bunker.
and the main point of controlling enemy units is send them all to the grinder and you get rich in no time. or just plain cannon fodder.
1. war and chrono regenerate health, slave dont
2. 3 elite rockies> slave miners in like 10 seconds.
3. Slave miners are a sititng target they dont retreat to base, they just sit in the middle of an ore field, they have armor, but they need it. U can stop them form g4tting cash easily, jsut use a sniper, virus, or desolator to destroy the slaves ive done it before.1. war and chrono aren't automatically rebuilt, slaves are.
2/3. what player doesn't keep an eye on his miners?!? when he's attacked you can easily just move'em out. or just sell'em since he's a building too, or repair it easily like a building, unlike miners! and again, slaves rebuild overtime so sniping them won't do you any good, he'll just go away to somewhere where you can't kill the slaves.
If you see a few GIs/inits/Conscripts undefended, kill them. Basically if u send a few into an undefended area u can take out troops and tanks, if they retreat or send gatts out, retreat them to ur base, theyll either leave, or be foolish and go into the base and get slaughtered.human players don't leave soldiers lying around undefended. that would be plain waste of money. humans would probably send some gatts to waste your rockies easily.

meh i decided to stop replying from here, it's boring :p
when you manage to play a human player tell us what you've learned and compare it to playing an AI ;)

[D00M]

Ok all i have to say is that the only difference between online and skirmish is how units are used. The units dont get any stronger or weaker they are exactly the same. The only difference is HOW they are used people online use units better than the computer cuz its stupid. Yuri isnt overpowered the the people who play as him, well thats all I have to say cuz othet than that its of no use to argue w/ ppl who think they know everything cuz they played a few games online.

[EliteGi]

No cuz sum ov dem rae teh 1337 creW!11!!!

[Chrono69x]

Ok all i have to say is that the only difference between online and skirmish is how units are used. The units dont get any stronger or weaker they are exactly the same. The only difference is HOW they are used people online use units better than the computer cuz its stupid. Yuri isnt overpowered the the people who play as him, well thats all I have to say cuz othet than that its of no use to argue w/ ppl who think they know everything cuz they played a few games online.

excuse me? A few games? try over 2 years...a year of which was on YR.
You're right, the difference is in how they're used. If you use a gat tank like a rhino or a grizzley, it'll die. If you use Yuri Clones like Conscripts, they'll die. If you use anything the way the computer does, you die.

well thats all I have to say cuz othet than that its of no use to argue w/ ppl who think they know everything cuz they played a few games online.
And what the hell do you think you're doing?? You're trying to argue with people who actually PLAY the game COMPETITIVELY and have played vs the VERY BEST, and you're saying that you know what's right and what's wrong.

Is it right that 5 or so of Yuri's units can kill more than double, in some instances triple, their value in units? You claim to know it all, and yet you have no clue how the game is played other than what you've seen a computer do.
The AI does not micro units. That right there shows how little your experiences could possibly be.

You're playing against something that builds up tons of defense (which has its downfalls, as i posted above), builds minimal tanks, has no unit control, has no actual thinking capabilities, can't create distractions, can't manipulate, can't expose holes in game play, and doesn't attack / create weaknesses, can't plan out any long term attack basis, and only follows script.

read and re-read that. Then tell me exactly how in the hell you have ANY clue what the game is like other than what a few scripts tell you? You'll learn more about the game reading REVIEWS than you will by playing vs the AI.


EDIT: Oh, and please, at least respond to something i've said. I mean, if you know it all and have this uncanny ability to completely decipher how a game is and how balanced it is due to playing against the above, you should be able to at least contradict ONE thing i say...

[tallica52]

Ok all i have to say is that the only difference between online and skirmish is how units are used. The units dont get any stronger or weaker they are exactly the same. The only difference is HOW they are used people online use units better than the computer cuz its stupid. Yuri isnt overpowered the the people who play as him, well thats all I have to say cuz othet than that its of no use to argue w/ ppl who think they know everything cuz they played a few games online.
again... bullshi't

[Madge]

Doom, will you teach me how to beat Chrono? :\

[smilodon]

I have switched from Yuri not being overpowered to him being overpowered due to the fact that D00M is defending him.

[zorgling25]

Yuri is OVERPOWERED!

3 Magnetrons, 3 Gatts, and 3 Lashers can beat any other combination of units of the same cost (minus Grand Cannons).

[Statalyzer]

all I have to say cuz othet than that its of no use to argue w/ ppl who think they know everything cuz they played a few games online.

And the rest of us are arguing with someone who thinks he knows everything cuz he played a few games with an AI mod.

war and chrono regenerate health, slave dont

A slave can be repaired with an engineer, war and chrono can't. And a slave miner does regenerate health when it's on the move.


They could send them to the grinder tho for cash or power (at least thats what i do) though, giving them cash. Thats the only advantage of the mutator.

The only advantage except it makes all of your infantry units who aren't in IFVs/BFs almost completely useless. A seal can't take out all the brutes if the seal gets mutated as well. Plus, $5000 or so every 5 minutes when the ore runs out is a pretty big advantage.

How can you say psychic dominator is not good? You use it in the middle of a base, it does almost as much damage as the storm/nuke, PLUS controls units. You say no one would keep 9 units together - that's pretty tough to avoid - every time you give units a move order, you have to seperate them at the end. You can't mass forces for attack/defense, and it's tough winning a battle without massing forces. Dominator also renders the chronosphere mostly useless as a form of attack, because once your units are together, he can dominate them just before you get your last prism in place.

U cant even get close w/ magnetron if the base is full fo grand cannons.

Ok but that weakness is true of everyside except Soviets and using v3s to destroy cannons takes a whole lot more cash and effort than it's worth. Plus you keep mentioning snipers as a Yuri weakness as well - you don't get snipers and grand cannons both.

And mags still are virtually unstoppable on maps with cliffs, or sea maps where he can pulls ships out of water - his mags are cheaper than any sea unit that can outrange it. If you have 3 carriers, he can build 6 mags for the same price, and if your carriers kill 3, the other 3 each drop a carrier onto the land and he's $3000 ahead and still has 3 mags to do damage with.

fair enough but as soon as it surfeaces u can trap it, u lose a bulding but u got the boomer. Hopefuly if its the CY that u have a WF and a SD.

That depends on how close your DDs are to the boomer when it surfaces. Plus it would get another building or two before two destroyers could kill it, and you'd probably lose a destroyer also, so you'd be way behind cashwise.

2. 3 elite rockies> slave miners in like 10 seconds

3 elite rockies > war/chrono miners in like 7 seconds, so this isn't a weakness of Yuri but of everyone.
and 1 nonpromoted mag > war/chrono miners in like 5 seconds.

[smilodon]

2. 3 elite rockies> slave miners in like 10 seconds
1 gatt tank > 3 elite rockies in like 10 seconds.

you also have to get the rockies to elite first, which is difficult as a gatt tank will own like 10-12 in a few seconds.

[zorgling25]

You know, with all these problems, someone should just make a mod specifically to make Yuri less overpowered.

[arctic10]

I don't mind him becuase i don't play on the internet, only agaisnt friends, andat the level we play, overpowering doesn't matter because we don't really know how to use stuff. The only thing i don't like is that Yuri is kindof magical, i like, tanks and stuff, not mind control. Though i think the mastermind should be limited moreso at something.

[EliteGi]

masterminds should have a limit of 3 (no overloading *****) and a slower rate of capturing

[arctic10]

Ya, on one the last soviet missions ( the one on the moon) i lost like so many units to him because the mastermind took out at least 10 apocs before i got them to start shooting.

[UNkeeper]

Ya, on one the last soviet missions ( the one on the moon) i lost like so many units to him because the mastermind took out at least 10 apocs before i got them to start shooting.

On that mission all you need to build is astronauts and a FEW tanks exclusively for defense until you run out of money then attack with all of em. Use thoe money you get from the minor bases to replace your troops. It works pretty well.

[Teron]

Arctic, that's impossible. A Master Mind just CAN'T capture Apocs fast enough to decimate ten before being destroyed. (EDIT: Unless you happened to feed them to it one by one) Besides, a Master Mind explodes upon controlling it's 10th victim. Provided it can even last that long, that is.

[smilodon]

Of course you just build one MM, and even if you lose all your MM, you have either gotten the Apoc force seriously damaged.

[Statalyzer]

Is 10 the maximum control limit like 3 is for a psy tower, or just the point at which it takes a number of damage points equal to it's armor?

[arctic10]

There was a wall between my guys and the MM. I had a whole bunch. I took over two or so, so my apocs killed those apocs, it then kept taking over some until, my apocs kept killing those then getting like one shot in on the mastermind. The most it ever held at one time was about 4.

[Teron]

Ten is the cap at which a Master Mind takes 500 damage in one shot, which is all it's HP, thus it blows up. You notice if you IC the MM just before it's gonna blow up that it can control more than ten units. A Master Mind's power knows no limits besides overloading.

[Madge]

Ten is the cap at which a Master Mind takes 500 damage in one shot, which is all it's HP, thus it blows up. You notice if you IC the MM just before it's gonna blow up that it can control more than ten units. A Master Mind's power knows no limits besides overloading.


If I'm not mistaken, a mastermind can control more infantry than it can tanks. Like maybe 10 infantry and around 5 tanks. :|

[zorgling25]

I just have a small question:

How can you rush boomers? They're expensive, they're Battle Lab-Level and by the time you get them, the enemy's navy should be ready for you (For every 1 boomer, they should have about 3 destroyers/typhoons to counter it). So, if anyone can explain how boomers are effective rush units, this would be appreciated.

[smilodon]

You can get them the second you builkd a Nav yard. The problem with them is that they cost $2000 and are not that fast.

[Madge]

You can not get them the second you build a naval yard. But, you can get them after you build radar. All you really need is one to destroy the enemy. Plus, if he has magnetrons and micros his army correctly, he can pull your destroyers out of the water and destroy them instantly. One boomer by itself is devastating because it can duck under water and reappear elsewhere and attack. I'm not sure how a destroyer vs boomer fight would turn out, been a while since I played YR.

[Statalyzer]

I just have a small question:

How can you rush boomers? They're expensive, they're Battle Lab-Level

No, they're radar level.

and by the time you get them, the enemy's navy should be ready for you (For every 1 boomer, they should have about 3 destroyers/typhoons to counter it).

If he does that, he'll have a good change to stop you, but he'll have spent 50% more money than you, killing his land battle chances.

So, if anyone can explain how boomers are effective rush units, this would be appreciated.

Because you can get it before the enemy can get a carrier/dread (even a carrier/dread can be rushed on some maps, but it's a much bigger gamble than rushing with a boomer), you just go power-barracks-miner-war factory-radar-sub pen (you can skip the factory but I wouldn't - you need it for another miner and then tanks). Get 1 boomer, and use psy reveal for whatever of his base your brutes couldn't scout so you have found his buildings.

Even if he knows you have a boomer, which he likely won't since dog scouting a Yuri is very tough, on most maps he won't know which side it's coming from (like the 2 player official tourney maps or isle of war, etc).

If he builds 2 DDs (replace DD with Sub if Soviet), he's got a 50% chance of guessing the wrong side - if boomer sneaks in other side, boom you're dead. If you put DDs in the middle, you have a 100% chance of guessing wrong, since they won't be close enough to find a boomer in time on either side. So you build 4 DDs , 2 guard each passageway. Now you've spent 2x as much money and he still can get your conyard and maybe either war factory or radar or refinery as well. He runs past your DDs, takes the damage, surfaces and fires at a building or two before the destroyers reload and kill it.

[NeoConker]

YURI's teem is gay because its so futeristic and the mind control and U.F.O are GAY! now come on!!

[zorgling25]

Once again, NeoConker, Yuri is OVERPOWERED instead of underpowered. I'd expect that if you had an ounce more strategy than massing the most powerful tanks you have, you'd know this.

Gattlings rip up infantry, magnetrons hold onto and destroy tanks and buildings, and mind control deals with the rest. I would really like to see you come up with a combination of units that can stop 3 yuri clones, 3 gatts, and 3 mags for the same amount of money (e. g. If your english isn't so good, something that costs less than 7200). The only viable combination is 3 grand cannons, but not everyone plays france do they?

Oh yes, and stat, i didn't know it was radar level. knowing that, I would have put 2 for 1 instead of 3 for 1. I agree that the boomer is overpowered, and that one can be very devastating, but 1 boomer isn't really a rush!

[SupSuper]

The only viable combination is 3 grand cannons, but not everyone plays france do they?yes and mags can outrange grand cannons. at least they always did in the last allied mission :(

[Statalyzer]

It's a rush if you go sub pen radar both before war factory. Otherwise, yeah, I guess you call it a boomer attack and not a rush.

YURI's teem is gay because its so futeristic and the mind control and U.F.O are GAY! now come on!!

Can't argue with that irrefutable logic. :rolleyes:

Teh allies is the fag team cuz chronosphere so futuristic and Tanya is a lez! Like, no duh they suX!
Soviet so n00bish squids big enuff to drag ships not possible!!@!! unrealistic gay teknologie - get real!

[Madge]

LOL. :rofl:

[NeoConker]

You people have fun??!?!?!?

[EliteGi]

Why else would be be like crazy derranged lunatics? Of course we have fun :p

[zorgling25]

You people have fun??!?!?!?
And you don't??!?!?!?

[NeoConker]

lol true true

[SupSuper]

Teh allies is the fag team cuz chronosphere so futuristic and Tanya is a lez! Like, no duh they suX!
Soviet so n00bish squids big enuff to drag ships not possible!!@!! unrealistic gay teknologie - get real!ROFL! :rofl::lol::rofl:

[tallica52]

stat that was the funniest thing ive seen in a while on these forums, and btw im back from vacation!

[Sergeant]

I Hate Yuri

[Commander11]

I'm no Yuri Hater, but I'm no fan of having my units mind-controlled.


I play as Yuri occasionally(but the fact that most of his units are *****)


I useually play as Soviets(they focus on Brute Force mainly),

other then the fact an RTS game is either balanced or unbalanced,

like Real Wars, Germany had the Advantage in the War on 1 on 1 attacks on alomst any Tank(the T-34 was the only other Tank that the Krauts could not beat on the battlefield on one hit)

[starscream007]

Same here im usually play as Soviets as well but i rotate between Allies and Soviets the thing with Yuri is basicly to develop a stragety to beat the Yuri player no matter what side your using.

[Jester Kirby]

so many people wont aggree with me but I dont think any team is over powered. No stratagy or unit is unbeatable, and you dont have to go to extrem measures to beat something, liek building 100 tanks to take on a few battle fotresses, hne just a fw rockateers can handle the job, (because infantry are resistant to anti tank rockets and the sea can hit air targets :cool: ) Yuri is a....differnt team, he has a completly differnt stratay that not alot of peiople know about. Yuri has a huge weakness, can you guess what it is? He doesnt have much brute force. So hes sedning masterminds, gattlers, lashers, and yuri prime at ya, big deal!! use robot tanks to kill the gattlers and some of the other stuff then rockateers will handle the rest. Now some people use nothing but a bunch of floaiting disks, well these thing's lasers arnt strong...so take advantage of yuri not being able to see the whole map and build another base with a ton of power somewhwre, then whne he attacks your main base sell all the power there and let your patriots, IFVs, rockateers, and battle fortresses ageis cruiser (if theres room for a navy) and thats easaly stoped. See, yuri isnt so hard to beat. :cool:

[SickerThanSickest]

well, i used to hate yuri, but now, i dont care, just like wat the person above me said, there are ways to win against yuri, he may have mind control, but bla, u can counter with robot tanks, rocketeers, prism tanks, tanya/boris, etc, and since its in the game, u should be able to use it, and since its in the game, and this is a strategy game, there are strategies to beat yuri...and the psychic towers are weak, their range is so short, and the gattling cannons cant do jack against heavy armored tanks, sucks that yuris only real defensive structure is a gattling cannon, altho the tank bunkers can be useful if ur not dealing w/ long rangers

[Fulcrum]

so many people wont aggree with me but I dont think any team is over powered. No stratagy or unit is unbeatable, and you dont have to go to extrem measures to beat something, liek building 100 tanks to take on a few battle fotresses, hne just a fw rockateers can handle the job, (because infantry are resistant to anti tank rockets and the sea can hit air targets :cool: ) Yuri is a....differnt team, he has a completly differnt stratay that not alot of peiople know about. Yuri has a huge weakness, can you guess what it is? He doesnt have much brute force. So hes sedning masterminds, gattlers, lashers, and yuri prime at ya, big deal!! use robot tanks to kill the gattlers and some of the other stuff then rockateers will handle the rest. Now some people use nothing but a bunch of floaiting disks, well these thing's lasers arnt strong...so take advantage of yuri not being able to see the whole map and build another base with a ton of power somewhwre, then whne he attacks your main base sell all the power there and let your patriots, IFVs, rockateers, and battle fortresses ageis cruiser (if theres room for a navy) and thats easaly stoped. See, yuri isnt so hard to beat. :cool:

What... Rocketeers beating GGI Battlefortresses? GGI BFs own everything but infantry on land and anything in the sky. Rocketeers = sure fire way to lose a bunch of money if you send them at a bunch of these bad boys. Also, your strategies against yuri seem a bit rediculous, to say the least. A few magnetrons in there and you can pick up and immobilise your robot tanks and when your Rocketeers show up there is still a load of gattling tanks that are still there! Also, if there is a fair amount of lashers and magnetrons and gattling tanks your robot force is about to get owned. Yuri disks are hard to destroy and what you say to do is three or four times as expensive as sending a couple of Disks to a base. Yuri is not grossly overpowered, but he sure is damn hard to beat.

[Dalek109]

Yuri is a well balanced army. Against short range units he wins, but against terror drones, he fails utterly. try to unbalance yuri players who favour mind control with drones;) :evil: :evil: Mwah But boomers? they cost 2000 dollars! anyone with some air defence can stop them!!! And Yuri Primes? dont make me laugh. Puny little weak things, thats why u can make 2 of them!:chin:

[Madge]

Yuri is a well balanced army. Against short range units he wins, but against terror drones, he fails utterly. try to unbalance yuri players who favour mind control with drones;) :evil: :evil: Mwah But boomers? they cost 2000 dollars! anyone with some air defence can stop them!!! And Yuri Primes? dont make me laugh. Puny little weak things, thats why u can make 2 of them!:chin:
wtf? Gatlin tanks tear up terror drones.

[Piscinex]

Yuri is a well balanced army. Against short range units he wins, but against terror drones, he fails utterly. try to unbalance yuri players who favour mind control with drones;) :evil: :evil:
1 Gattling Tank will beat 4 Terror Drones.

Try playing the game.

Mwah But boomers? they cost 2000 dollars! anyone with some air defence can stop them!!!
Not true at all. If you build static defense the Boomer will just hit buildings that aren't covered by the anti-air (and if you spend more than $2000 on air defence then the Boomer has paid for itself, it could self-destruct and Yuri would still have an advantage, you've had to spend more money to stop his unit!).

Build IFVs or Flak Tracks instead and you might fare better, except that the Boomer can easily submerge and hit from a different location, that's part of the reason why they're so strong. Often your AA won't be in the best place, and even more likely is that you won't be watching the water all the time, and that's enough time to lose something critical (like a War Factory).

Again, you need to consider playing the game: you'll clearly see why you're wrong.

XWIS currently doesn't match non-Yuri players with Yuri players on naval maps, and that in itself should settle the issue.

[Statalyzer]

Gatts will rip terror drones a new one...except drones don't have one in the first place to be ripped.

Mwah But boomers? they cost 2000 dollars! anyone with some air defence can stop them!!!

Yeah it only takes, what, 8 harriers to kill them. And 8 harriers is so much cheaper....

[SickerThanSickest]

i changed my mind, yuri is overpowered, but once u play vs yuri and find different tactics for him, itll become easier, but he'll still be overpowered by a lil

[Dalek109]

Gatts will rip terror drones a new one...except drones don't have one in the first place to be ripped.



Yeah it only takes, what, 8 harriers to kill them. And 8 harriers is so much cheaper....
Euh.. Now evry ones quotin me. I dont play the game 24/7 like sum ppl, and my computers got slow internet:( :(

[YuriRuler90]

1 vs 1 can be played even on 56k. :p

[Dalek109]

1 vs 1 can be played even on 56k. :p

Thanx, but my computer doesnt usually get to 49 kbps..:( Damn i need better internet, so then the world will know my dismal Ra2 skillz :lol: :\

[Statalyzer]

If your computer won't let u play online that's fine, but remember the comp is not nearly as competant as even a below average human player, so playing AIs (even many of them at once) doesn't teach you much about which sides are better. Many AIs at once is hard to beat, but because of sheer advantage of numbers, not because of good usage of unit strengths, and good usage of unit strengths is what makes Yuri overpowered.

A Yuri AI is tougher than Allied or Soviet AIs, but for different reasons than Yuri is powerful in a human vs human match.

[Dalek109]

If your computer won't let u play online that's fine, but remember the comp is not nearly as competant as even a below average human player, so playing AIs (even many of them at once) doesn't teach you much about which sides are better. Many AIs at once is hard to beat, but because of sheer advantage of numbers, not because of good usage of unit strengths, and good usage of unit strengths is what makes Yuri overpowered.

A Yuri AI is tougher than Allied or Soviet AIs, but for different reasons than Yuri is powerful in a human vs human match.

Thanx. :) You have a point, the ai usually just rushes with tanx, but always sends kirovs or floating discs somewhere, dependin on sides

[JJFZ3000]

Warning LONG ARTICLES:

I've found some articles regarding this topic. Also, I just got YR, what's the difference between XWIS and WOL? What has happened to WOL? (I just restarted playing after playing RA2 when it first came out)

"The release of YR has not come without controversy. My first impression of Yuri that it was going to be a joke and easily owned by the likes of the Allies and Soviets, boy was I wrong. Overnight newbies turned into average players and average players turned into good players and good players turned into great players and great players...well I don't want to go there, my point being that in the end Yuri was way stronger than the others sides and not until Westwood released patch 1.001 did it manage to fix some of those glaring imbalances to all sides not just Yuri, but I still think a lot can and needs to be done about some units that either suck too much or own too much. Here are my Top Ten Unbalanced Units/Structures in YR:

#10. Slave Miner - The backbone of the Yuri economy with the mobility to put the allied and soviet economy to shame. Yes, Westwood did kind of address the problem but they still need to make it cost a little more but still it should cost the same as the other refineries, perhaps the version that comes out of the war factory can be reduced in price, this gives the Yuri player a good jump start up the tech tree on Allied and Soviet player.
My Suggestion:
Increase the price of the slave miner built from the construction yard to 2000 credits and keep the price of the slave miner that comes out of the war factory at 1500 credits, this keeps the tech race even and gives the Yuri player a little break when producing from war factory as with a chrono miner and war miner, but still more than them because the slave miner is better.
#9. Terror Drone - Huh? your wondering well there are several reasons that I think the terror drone makes my list of too powerful units, consider the following: terror drones require no tech except the war factory, costs 100 cheaper than the Allied robot tank, doesn't require a structure doesn't stop when power goes out, if you get some iron curtained you can kiss the opposite army goodbye, when you infect a unit the player is most likely going to lose that unit either by your terror drone destroying the unit or another unit destroying the infected unit(most good players do this), you can un-infect a unit but that requires a service depot and hardly anyone I play uses a service depot anymore. Also, what is up with it being able to fit in a flack track at least if it does it should take up more spaces than infantrymen
My Suggestion:
Increase cost to 600 credits.
AND/OR
Also, don't allow them to be iron curtained.
AND
Don't allow them to fit inside a flack track.
OR
Require them to take up more slots.
#8. Gattling Gun - In the pre YR patch days the Gattling Gun was pure weakness against advancing enemy units with its pathetic range, but there was something that caught my eye. Unlike the flack cannon and patriot missile system the gattling gun is able to cut paratroopers to sheds after they got off the plane and before they get to the ground...erg whats up with that? And combined with the yuri radar it makes paratroopers almost useless against yuri, except for stockpiling. The fact of the matter is simple the flack cannon and patriot missile system can't hit paratroopers, as so it should be a no-brainer.
My Suggestion:
Make it so it doesn't shoot at paratroopers falling to the earth, simple.
#7. Chronosphere - Consider, both the iron curtain and genetic mutator the opposite "minor superweapons" counter starts at five minutes, but why then does the chronosphere take eight minutes to charge? Its not better than the other ones, in fact it may be a bit weaker. Its like having another "major superweapon"(in reference to counter, not ability) at the "minor superweapon" price.
My Suggestion:
Lower countdown timer to five minutes like the others.
OR
Lower the cost to make up for the countdown time differential.
#6. Attack Dog - A many of a dog battles I have lost, even when trying techniques to win one. And a many of a time have I screamed obscenities afterwards, yes really. If you don't believe me just email my room mates and ask them, they know. yes really I am serious; I hate it, you hate it, everyone hates it yet Westwood has done nothing about it. Why should the tech building capture race be decided on chance. Why does one dog able to take on three dogs. If you have
My Suggestion:
Require them to do to take a bit of time, to much on its victim, still killing it, but not just hopping from one victim to another haplessly.
#5. Siege Copter/V3 - Again a few of you might wonder why I say the siege copter is unbalanced but here is my reasoning. The siege copter costs 1750 and with the addition of the industrial plant it brings it to a grand total of 875 credits an amazingly only 250 credits more than a rocketeer. I don't think it warrants being almost as cheap as a rocketeer and being way more versatile. Also, this gives the Soviets two long range units both of which outrange any allied unit.
My Suggestions:
Raise the price back to 2000 credits AND shorten its range(deployed) even with the prism tank.
OR
Keep it how it is and get rid of the V3 rocket.
#4. Psychic Dominator - Two superweapons for the price of one? Well the answer is yes if you are talking about the psychic dominator. Not only do you have to worry about it taking over your units, you have to worry about it destroying half your base in the process. I normally wouldn't complain about a superweapon but because of Westwoods insistence on keeping them in the quick match I feel it should be revised to make it equal to the other superweapons.
My Suggestion:
Raise the cost.
OR
Limit it to controlling the minds of your units.
OR
Better yet remove supers from the quick match.
OR
Reduce the damage area and damage give out by the psychic dominator.
#3. Robot Tank - These little guys can be extremely helpful when fighting off the forces of Yuri or in an amphibious assaults. True like their soviet counter part they can go over water makes them a versatile weapon. Even so when in a big tank battle they don't last long and when it comes to fighting other Allies or Soviets they just don't measure up, their armor is paper thin and their weapon is average at best.
My Suggestions:
Lower price.
OR
Lower build time.
OR
Increase armor.
OR
Increase firepower.
#2. Chaos Drone - The plight of many a commander, I have personally witnessed and been at the receiving end of this unholy creation. Even though Westwood did address this problem in the first patch I didn't go far enough its still silly that it doesn't affect its own units, that would be like saying the desolator only effects enemy units, that is stupid.
My Suggestion:
Make it effect its own units.
And the #1 most unbalanced unit is.....The Boomer - This should come at no surprise at all. The boomer by far and away takes the cake as the most unbalanced unit in the game. Not only does it have tough armor, but it has a low signature, is quite fast enabling it to get away unscathed, and to top it off it has cruise missiles, with only radar tech. As a person who has dominated the seas in many a battle I find this highly insulting. Westwood has taken the skill out of building a fleet, and then attacking a base with it. If you were to send a dreadnought or aircraft carrier in to attack an enemy base, unguarded it would be suicide, but with the boomer you can do it all and you don't have to worry about losing your boomer, because even if it gets engaged by enemy units it easily can slip away even, in the process of firing its cruise missiles.
My Suggestion:
Raise price of the boomer.
OR
Give Yuri a unit similar to the sub or destroyer unit and make the boomer a battle lab required unit.
OR
Just give the boomer torpedos until the owner gets a battle lab and purchases the upgrade to cruise missiles.
OR
Reduce the boomer armor, and speed.
OR
Reduce the cruise missile speed.
AND
Reduce the boomer range.
Along with any of the above changes, I must recommend that the boomer not be able to run away while firing, leaving a cruise missile being launched from nothing.As you can seem, I strongly believe that lots of improvements could be made to better balance the game. I hope that you enjoyed reading my article and that it provokes some discussion."

» erikmcfar (http://www.cncseries.com/members/?5) (cncseries.com)

[truefeel]

There are good points and bad points in that article. I picked out the bad ones:

#9. Terror Drone - Huh? your wondering well there are several reasons that I think the terror drone makes my list of too powerful units, consider the following: terror drones require no tech except the war factory, costs 100 cheaper than the Allied robot tank, doesn't require a structure doesn't stop when power goes out, if you get some iron curtained you can kiss the opposite army goodbye, when you infect a unit the player is most likely going to lose that unit either by your terror drone destroying the unit or another unit destroying the infected unit(most good players do this), you can un-infect a unit but that requires a service depot and hardly anyone I play uses a service depot anymore. Also, what is up with it being able to fit in a flack track at least if it does it should take up more spaces than infantrymen

Terror drones are very easily to kill. 2 shots from a rhino and 3 from a grizzly. That's for basic tanks; allieds have many, many units which cank ill terror drones very easily and on top of that, they have the repair ifv; 2 repair ifvs nutifie the use of the terror drones. Yuri has gattling tanks; 2 gattling tanks can kill 8 to 10 terror drones before getting droned.
further, you can not compare the robo tank with the terror drone. They are 2 complete different units.
Yes, ICed drones are nasty, very nasty infact. But nasty things ALWAYS happens when you have superweapons on. Though ICed drones are a laugher for allieds (repair IFV) and soviets vs. soviets is even match. The only use it has is vs. yuri, who cannot remove the drones (but can grind the droned vehicles). That is if you are able to fire up the IC against yuri... .
Drones take up 2 slots in a flak track, that's 1 more then a normal infantry unit.

7. Chronosphere - Consider, both the iron curtain and genetic mutator the opposite "minor superweapons" counter starts at five minutes, but why then does the chronosphere take eight minutes to charge? Its not better than the other ones, in fact it may be a bit weaker. Its like having another "major superweapon"(in reference to counter, not ability) at the "minor superweapon" price.


It's better to weaken the overpowered Iron Curtain, by lasting the IC effect less long and increasing the charge time.

#6. Attack Dog - A many of a dog battles I have lost, even when trying techniques to win one. And a many of a time have I screamed obscenities afterwards, yes really. If you don't believe me just email my room mates and ask them, they know. yes really I am serious; I hate it, you hate it, everyone hates it yet Westwood has done nothing about it. Why should the tech building capture race be decided on chance. Why does one dog able to take on three dogs. If you have

Dog luck is indeed something bad in RA2/YR, BUT whining about it will not work. Accepting it would be better, b/c you just can't fix it. The things you can is following the principle of piscinex and that is walling the tech buildings (by editing the maps).
There are few tricks though what you can do with dogs which decrease dog luck (in you favour):
-place dogs on shoke points not yet scouted by the opponent: a dog on the move doesn't attack, a dog which is on guard does. It increases your chances alot of killing the dog. when you done that, move the dog a bit bakc, so that your opponent will still not be able to see the dog
-use a group of 2 dogs when facing a guarding dog. use one dog to lure the dog. when the opponents dog is chasing, retreat and let the other dog kill the opponents dog.

#5. Siege Copter/V3 - Again a few of you might wonder why I say the siege copter is unbalanced but here is my reasoning. The siege copter costs 1750 and with the addition of the industrial plant it brings it to a grand total of 875 credits an amazingly only 250 credits more than a rocketeer. I don't think it warrants being almost as cheap as a rocketeer and being way more versatile. Also, this gives the Soviets two long range units both of which outrange any allied unit.

a) siege choppers cost without industrial plant 1150.
b) siege choppers can easily been hit down by AA units
c) you don't see it that often, b/c soviets do not tech up fast.

[Daishi]

erikmcfar has many valid points, but I think he's confusing imbalances with gameplay flaws. :p

My top 10 imbalanced units and structures, in no particular order, are

Battle Fortress - (Owns anything Soviet. Anything. Mix with these babies and its GG.)
Mirage Tank - (Owns anything Soviet except for desos.)
Desolator - (owns everything allied. And the Soviets are lost without it to Mirages and prisms. :\)
Magnetron (A decent Yuri player becomes extremely difficult to beat when mixing in this unit.)
Boomer (no comment).
Dolphin (yeah, the article is wrong about one thing. Westwood took the skill out of building a fleet in RA2's initial release. They do way too much damage to shipyards and prevent any Soviet unit from being effective on naval.)
Squid (this unit basically FORCES the dolphin spam)
Initiates (specifically in buildings, they're actually very balanced on land. In structures they're ridiculously OP, shredding anything too quickly)
GI - (Kills any tank 1v1.)
Gattling tank - (twice as powerful as it needs to be. America and Korea can't use their advantages offensively because of this one unit)

[Statalyzer]

As soon as I saw this thread title I thought "10 to 1 it was a year old or more until JJFZ bumped it."

[wargrudge]

#8. Gattling Gun - In the pre YR patch days the Gattling Gun was pure weakness against advancing enemy units with its pathetic range, but there was something that caught my eye. Unlike the flack cannon and patriot missile system the gattling gun is able to cut paratroopers to sheds after they got off the plane and before they get to the ground...erg whats up with that? And combined with the yuri radar it makes paratroopers almost useless against yuri, except for stockpiling. The fact of the matter is simple the flack cannon and patriot missile system can't hit paratroopers, as so it should be a no-brainer.
[LIST]My Suggestion:
Make it so it doesn't shoot at paratroopers falling to the earth, simple
Not sure about the cannon part, but flack troopers and flack tracks do hit paratroopers on their way down, albeit a little bit at a time. A small group of troopers (like, 4 or 5 I think) can kill all the paratroops before they land, or at least decimate them enough to make them useless once they hit. And if you rely on flack cannons (which is retarded in the first place, why have a static defense when you can have slightly offensive, MOBILE units that do the same thing?), you're asking to be destroyed.

[Doom]

Quote, Statalyzer:

"no France" - France is not overpowered. People don't like France because France can make a game take a long time even when his defeat is inevitible. Of course, that wouldn't be true about France if ppl would turn on superweapons, but nobody wants to do that for some reason.

Nobody wants to use supers, because then they couldnt play their waiting game, but would have to take chances. The way i always saw nearly 90% of the games i was in, was no rush, everyone builds defences on the 2 hills, in which point it becomes a stalemate. This stalemate continues, until either one side reaches a noticeable superiority in power, or the other side is whittled down on resources, or units with GGI BF's little by little in hit and run attacks, which are the most annoying thing ever.

If you cloned yourself and played against yourself as Yuri vs Allies/Soviets, the Yuri you should win 9 out of 10.

No, i would lose 10 out of 10 with Yuri against myself... :P

Boomers - a quick Boomer cannot be stopped without spending more than he did. If you use fast naval, even if you only build 2 destroyers/subs, you've spent more than he did (sub pen is cheaper), and if you spread out the DDs, the boomer can kill them 1 at a time. If you keep them together, he can go around to the other side. If you build AA, you will need more than 1 patriot or 3 IFVs or 3 Rockies to stop a boomer. If you are Soviets, you can probably build 4 flaks and then its even, but you don't know where his boomer will surface so if your flaks are in the wrong place, and you lose even just 1 building, the quick boomer pays off. Yes he needs it early b/c he has no other naval. Well that's EA/WW fault for not giving him a medium naval unit.

This is easily solved, by playing as soviets, and building your buildings, so that they are easily defendable by 2 or 3 flaks all at once from whatever direction.

Genetic mutator/cloning vats give Yuri infinite cash if supers are on. The Dominator is superior to the storm/nuke in most cases, because you don't have the option to protect against it with the force shield. And brutes mean that a Yuri player who knows the map will get to most of the derricks first. Brutes also turn the tide of tank battles if you have no desos/seals - lashers can fight evenly against rhinos/grizz, but if you add a few brutes to the mix, or a magnetron to the mix, it becomes very uneven.

Soviet drones like brute meat. :devil:

The gatt tank is a better AA unit than the IFV or flak, and a better infantry killer than IFV or flak (except seal/sniper IFV)...men in front of the bfs to prevent mind control doesn't work if the Yuri player builds a few gatts and a virus or two. The gatt tower, for the same cost as a flak cannon or patriot missle, gets much better AA capabilities AND ground defense also. A gatt tower defending a derrick is as good as a patriot + pillbox, maybe better. And the gatt tower isn't even Yuri's best air-land defense combo since he can also use gatt tanks in bunkers.

Correction: Flak tracks are THE BEST AA tank, because they damage more than 1 unit/shot when shooting multiple units. Gatling tanks all tend to target 1 unit off a large group, and then take up to 1 second to target the next. Not good...

Why is it a sin Yuri's units work so well in combination? Because neither the Allies or Soviet can put units in a combination that work nearly as well together (except maybe the deso-apoc crawl in RA2).

Wrong! Use siege choppers + flak tracks. Nearly unbeatable if you're good. Then there's Apocs. I beat a whole army of masterminds with around 10 apocs, because the masterminds took over about 2-3 times more than they can handle, and my apocs moved in a very coherent group, and almost always managed to kill a mastermind before their next takeover. One thing you need to remember, is to target the weakest masterminds, and the ones controlling the elites/veterans. This way the MM's will stand no chance.

Mind control actually isn't overpowered imo...psy tower costs same as prism/tesla and can do more harm but also has shorter range and can't be charged/linked. Yuri is vulnerable and Yuri has no flak/ifv equivalent to bring him in easy range. Yuri Prime is very dangerous, but so is Tanya and (sometimes) Boris.

Boris is the most dangerous out of the 3. You need more than 3 tanks of any kind to kill one. When it's a elite Boris, then it takes up to 5 tanks, 8 or more if you play allies. Psy tower is pretty horrible, since it can only control 3 units, and can't kill anything.


Conclusion: Use Iraq, or Cuba. My 2 favorites incidently. :)

[Da Doom Guy]

I'd have to say it's perfectly balanced really(even though most of you probably think I'm crazy) it juts this: Allied and Soviets haven't made and technological advances in a while, see? Yuri, on the other hand, made lots of advances to fund his army, this ALMOST emulates a war because some sides have a technological advantage over others, reason it doesn't emulate a real war is because Mind-Control/Tesla, Chronosphere's/Prism Towers and good Genetic mutations can't exist simply.

[Daishi]

Nobody wants to use supers, because then they couldnt play their waiting game, but would have to take chances. The way i always saw nearly 90% of the games i was in, was no rush, everyone builds defences on the 2 hills, in which point it becomes a stalemate. This stalemate continues, until either one side reaches a noticeable superiority in power, or the other side is whittled down on resources, or units with GGI BF's little by little in hit and run attacks, which are the most annoying thing ever.
I stopped reading when I realized you were describing a TOE game. Don't play TOE games.

This is easily solved, by playing as soviets, and building your buildings, so that they are easily defendable by 2 or 3 flaks all at once from whatever direction.I think we can all safely say this isn't going to work.

Soviet drones like brute meat. :devil:What part of "mix" don't you understand? Mix means that he has gatts to kill any number of drones swiftly.

Correction: Flak tracks are THE BEST AA tank, because they damage more than 1 unit/shot when shooting multiple units. Gatling tanks all tend to target 1 unit off a large group, and then take up to 1 second to target the next. Not good...This is up for debate, I suppose, but gattling tanks will rip through any sized group of speedy air units, especially in small groups. Don't get me started on slow air units. :|

Wrong! Use siege choppers + flak tracks. Nearly unbeatable if you're good. Then there's Apocs. I beat a whole army of masterminds with around 10 apocs, because the masterminds took over about 2-3 times more than they can handle, and my apocs moved in a very coherent group, and almost always managed to kill a mastermind before their next takeover. One thing you need to remember, is to target the weakest masterminds, and the ones controlling the elites/veterans. This way the MM's will stand no chance.Siege choppers + flak tracks + apocs... are you trying to attack someone who's spamming air units? Otherwise, I could rip that to shreds with twice as many tanks as you have apocs, which I'll have before you complete this mix. It won't work vs. anyone, especially not a mixing yuri.

Boris is the most dangerous out of the 3. You need more than 3 tanks of any kind to kill one. When it's a elite Boris, then it takes up to 5 tanks, 8 or more if you play allies. Psy tower is pretty horrible, since it can only control 3 units, and can't kill anything. You forgot to mention he's so ridiculously easy to own with any standard strategy at ALL, cept maybe terrorist walking. :rofl:

I'd have to say it's perfectly balanced really(even though most of you probably think I'm crazy) it juts this: Allied and Soviets haven't made and technological advances in a while, see? Yuri, on the other hand, made lots of advances to fund his army, this ALMOST emulates a war because some sides have a technological advantage over others, reason it doesn't emulate a real war is because Mind-Control/Tesla, Chronosphere's/Prism Towers and good Genetic mutations can't exist simply.
Great. Story-wise, RA2/YR is perfectly balanced, if a little unrealistic. Thanks for telling us, but now lets get back to gameplay.

[truefeel]

Nobody wants to use supers, because then they couldnt play their waiting game, but would have to take chances. The way i always saw nearly 90% of the games i was in, was no rush, everyone builds defences on the 2 hills, in which point it becomes a stalemate. This stalemate continues, until either one side reaches a noticeable superiority in power, or the other side is whittled down on resources, or units with GGI BF's little by little in hit and run attacks, which are the most annoying thing ever.

And not every game is TOE. TOE sucks; there's no strategy about it when you play with crates and no rush rules. In QM, it doesn't work like that. you can't say "no rush" , b/c nobody will listen, which is correct. rushing is not overpowered. you play everytime with SWs on, which forces you actually to rush and so on. bottom line is: you cannot compare Yuri's Revenge with that one map which happens to be the most stupid map how it is played now (it can be a good game on TOE; but then only without crates and without any rules).

No, i would lose 10 out of 10 with Yuri against myself... :P

The you don't know how to play yuri


This is easily solved, by playing as soviets, and building your buildings, so that they are easily defendable by 2 or 3 flaks all at once from whatever direction.

a boomer costs 2000. 3 flak cannons already cost 3000. that's 1000 credits advantage for the yuri player and I'm very positive that you can't stop missiles with that, or you need to build so compact that your economy will just dies, leaving you very vulnerable (b/c you want to basewalk to ore field, but then your base is very long and vulnerable to yuri).



Soviet drones like brute meat. :devil:

Read again what he posted: he will use them to scout. you can't posssibly have that quick a war factory to deny him scouting your base, let alone a terror drone. If he uses them in battle as fodder, you will not get to using terror drones against brutes; they end up getting killed by gatt tanks.



Correction: Flak tracks are THE BEST AA tank, because they damage more than 1 unit/shot when shooting multiple units. Gatling tanks all tend to target 1 unit off a large group, and then take up to 1 second to target the next. Not good...
But flak tracks cannot fire while moving. and that makes gatt tanks better. you can kill 10 rocketeers with a flak track when you have a good TC, but you can also kill 10 rocketeers with a gatt tank, even when you don't have a good TC (what's difficult about moving a unit around ?).


Wrong! Use siege choppers + flak tracks. Nearly unbeatable if you're good. Then there's Apocs. I beat a whole army of masterminds with around 10 apocs, because the masterminds took over about 2-3 times more than they can handle, and my apocs moved in a very coherent group, and almost always managed to kill a mastermind before their next takeover. One thing you need to remember, is to target the weakest masterminds, and the ones controlling the elites/veterans. This way the MM's will stand no chance.

Siege choppers get outranged by magnetrons; they'll get lifted up and probably shewed up by gatt tanks.
And you can't kill a "whole army of masterminds" with apocs. no matter hiow much they are, 10 or 100, you will still loose against 5 masterminds, b/c of simple hit 'n run: go in, MC some and move back, let the apocs kill eachother and repeat the whole thing. apocs are slower then masterminds and have less range; you can never win when the yuri player uses a good TC and only MCs a few at a time. even not when you use rhinoes instead of apocs.


Boris is the most dangerous out of the 3. You need more than 3 tanks of any kind to kill one. When it's a elite Boris, then it takes up to 5 tanks, 8 or more if you play allies. Psy tower is pretty horrible, since it can only control 3 units, and can't kill anything.

you can't compare the yuri prime with boris; they are 2 completely different units and both have their won abilities and weaknesses. Furthermore, you cannot compare an elite unit to a none elite unit. psy tower can be usefull if you place it right in between your units and his units. Do not underestiate that


Conclusion: Use Iraq, or Cuba. My 2 favorites incidently. :)

Then I'd like to show you how they both end up killed by me; I'm myself a soviet player and I only play very rarely as yuri, but I still say in front of everybody you would loose, and only b/c yuri is overpowered and the best side in YR. Why else do you think me, daishi and some others are making a balance patch ? why else do you see everyhwere at the xwis forums, the hear of the online players, that yuri is is overpowered ? why does everybody say it online ? You can't just deny it...

[Doom]

And not every game is TOE. TOE sucks; there's no strategy about it when you play with crates and no rush rules. In QM, it doesn't work like that. you can't say "no rush" , b/c nobody will listen, which is correct. rushing is not overpowered. you play everytime with SWs on, which forces you actually to rush and so on. bottom line is: you cannot compare Yuri's Revenge with that one map which happens to be the most stupid map how it is played now (it can be a good game on TOE; but then only without crates and without any rules).



The you don't know how to play yuri




a boomer costs 2000. 3 flak cannons already cost 3000. that's 1000 credits advantage for the yuri player and I'm very positive that you can't stop missiles with that, or you need to build so compact that your economy will just dies, leaving you very vulnerable (b/c you want to basewalk to ore field, but then your base is very long and vulnerable to yuri).





Read again what he posted: he will use them to scout. you can't posssibly have that quick a war factory to deny him scouting your base, let alone a terror drone. If he uses them in battle as fodder, you will not get to using terror drones against brutes; they end up getting killed by gatt tanks.




But flak tracks cannot fire while moving. and that makes gatt tanks better. you can kill 10 rocketeers with a flak track when you have a good TC, but you can also kill 10 rocketeers with a gatt tank, even when you don't have a good TC (what's difficult about moving a unit around ?).




Siege choppers get outranged by magnetrons; they'll get lifted up and probably shewed up by gatt tanks.
And you can't kill a "whole army of masterminds" with apocs. no matter hiow much they are, 10 or 100, you will still loose against 5 masterminds, b/c of simple hit 'n run: go in, MC some and move back, let the apocs kill eachother and repeat the whole thing. apocs are slower then masterminds and have less range; you can never win when the yuri player uses a good TC and only MCs a few at a time. even not when you use rhinoes instead of apocs.




you can't compare the yuri prime with boris; they are 2 completely different units and both have their won abilities and weaknesses. Furthermore, you cannot compare an elite unit to a none elite unit. psy tower can be usefull if you place it right in between your units and his units. Do not underestiate that




Then I'd like to show you how they both end up killed by me; I'm myself a soviet player and I only play very rarely as yuri, but I still say in front of everybody you would loose, and only b/c yuri is overpowered and the best side in YR. Why else do you think me, daishi and some others are making a balance patch ? why else do you see everyhwere at the xwis forums, the hear of the online players, that yuri is is overpowered ? why does everybody say it online ? You can't just deny it...

1. Sure, i love ToE, but you immediately assume that i play like the rest of the ToE players, which is just stupid no offence.

2. I do know how to play Yuri, actually, i play it atleast as well as i play Soviet and Allied. You just dont get the fact that for every tactic, there is a countertactic to own it. I dont play by the rules other people think the unit advances set. I make my own rules and bend the tactics to suit the situation.

3. a boomer costs 2000. 3 flak cannons already cost 3000. that's 1000 credits advantage for the yuri player and I'm very positive that you can't stop missiles with that, or you need to build so compact that your economy will just dies, leaving you very vulnerable (b/c you want to basewalk to ore field, but then your base is very long and vulnerable to yuri). I just simply have to spell this out for you graphically. I dont think you can understand otherwise.
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/2687/schemeuj4.png
This is a island map that you can find somewhere in the RA2 scenarios i think. It depicts my island. And belive me when i say this, i've tried this against some guy with boomers, he was good but he got owned, because he underestimated my flaks, by the time he got more boomers, i had already built a flak artillery too big to pass. Even with his discs. Then i just picked off his boomers that were closer to the shore by shooting at random spots in the water and finding them then shooting them with tanks, i guess he was too busy trying to figure where to get more $$ that he didnt even notice. And there were other players too.

4. My pill boxes or cannons would kill the scout brutes. I usually build a few.

5. My flak tracks dont need to fire when moving, i move them and then fire, move, fire until the enemy is dead. I've always either won or killed a very large part of the air force before the enemy got me.

6.
Siege choppers get outranged by magnetrons; they'll get lifted up and probably shewed up by gatt tanks.
And you can't kill a "whole army of masterminds" with apocs. no matter hiow much they are, 10 or 100, you will still loose against 5 masterminds, b/c of simple hit 'n run: go in, MC some and move back, let the apocs kill eachother and repeat the whole thing. apocs are slower then masterminds and have less range; you can never win when the yuri player uses a good TC and only MCs a few at a time. even not when you use rhinoes instead of apocs. Ok, i've always found a way to kill the magnetrons, even if the other guy had gatlings mixed up.. If he picks up the tanks that i send for the magnetrons, i send more from another direction, and nobody has yet (that i've fought) found a way to lift them all up, due to the simple fact of latency, and when they send the magnetrons to lift other tanks in other directions, the magnetrons usually move, which makes them unable to lift for a short period of time. Yuri really is terribly underpowered. You just dont see it because you havent been playing to test different ideas, i bet you all just play to win. Am i right? This isn't always the best thing to do, trust me, i know.

Then I'd like to show you how they both end up killed by me; I'm myself a soviet player and I only play very rarely as yuri, but I still say in front of everybody you would loose, and only b/c yuri is overpowered and the best side in YR. Why else do you think me, daishi and some others are making a balance patch ? why else do you see everyhwere at the xwis forums, the hear of the online players, that yuri is is overpowered ? why does everybody say it online ? You can't just deny it...I can deny it with the simple fact, that i've been there, and i've done it. If i could just install RA2 and YR i'd relearn the game, and show you.

Trying to argue with my statement, is like trying to say earth is flat, because i know what i say to be true, due to experience with the game, and experimenting different things. One thing that's still beyond my grasp, is how to win more games than lose. It's all because of the fact that i play to experiment, not to win. I'm usually still quite successful on the larger team games than alone.

[Da Doom Guy]

Sorry about getting off-topic there, just had to put my 2-cents in on why no one likes Yuri(because no one likes someone else with an unfiar advantage) I mean who doesn't like perfectly balanced armies? I mean I like 'em, but since I love war, I also like unbalanced armies to.

oh well, since all I an seem to do is drag it off topic, I'll cease talking:D