China Infantry General - Helix rush is unstoppable

[Chubz]

:flame: Jesus, I've tried everything to stop this rush but they are just so overpowered that no matter how many anti-air units you get, if they rush you fast enough, there is very little that you can do to even GET OUT of that one situation, much less put up with what they are doing back at their base.

So while they're sitting there basically owning it up with their helix rush, they can be rushing up some overlord tanks for reinforcements, making it twice as bad.

Has anybody actually defended against this?

I think I'm just going to dodge every China Inf. General game I come up to... imbalances, imbalances.

[n3m3sis]

Fast tech to Airfield, one Raptor/King Raptor shoots it down.

[Chubz]

Fast tech to Airfield, one Raptor/King Raptor shoots it down.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll try that. :cool:

[n3m3sis]

"I've tried everything to stop this rush" You just wanted to say something eh?

Dodge = aka disconnect, because you yourself said you only play quickmatch.

[Derek]

Dodge = aka disconnect, because you yourself said you only play quickmatch.
Actually, it means quiting the game in the first 30 seconds. No win or loss will be recorded. I do it all the time, there are so many one-mappers and inf. gens in quickmatch :sleep:

[Chubz]

Actually, it means quiting the game in the first 30 seconds. No win or loss will be recorded. I do it all the time, there are so many one-mappers and inf. gens in quickmatch :sleep:

Exactly.

[n3m3sis]

Yea, the other guy told me that. I never knew that :/. I guess I never bothered to find out because I never needed it.

[redazncommieDXP]

ECM+gatt tank doesn't do it?

[Derek]

Not if they fill it with minigunners (which most do), plus, you can't get ECM that early.

[n3m3sis]

Naw, Remember how I said you can defeat Infantry? If you do that exact thing you can beat the Helix Rush. Because the AAs and the RPGs will be enough, and the Red Guards will be in the way of the other units so he would have to manually target each RPG guy. As GLA, Car Bombs are VERY useful. Chinas go Dual WarFac Gatt spam, and GLA makes stingers + Quads. OR, as GLA you can do the early Supply Stash BO into 2 WarFacs and Quad Spam. If the Infantry guy has a Helix that early, thers a good chance he doesn't have a War Factory, so AA only is ok.

Anyway, if I meet an Infantry during quickmatch I just lame like they do. Toxin/Stealth = Technical Rush, gets them WAY before they can get a Helix, and even if they do they got no Infantry to put in it and I have 2 WarFacs. USAF = Quick Strat Center BO, it's the only one that can counter both AOs and Helixes. Nuke/Tank = My other Anit-Infantry BO there, very useful, and the Red Guard Training is a godsend.

[Mataranka]

i don't know why raptors or king raptors wouldn't do the trick. by the time they have an airfield, you can have an airfield and by the time they've got a helix and the mini-gunners you have at least 1 raptor maybe 2. gg, then go dozer hunting.

[Derek]

Yes that works, but only US can do it, that leaves China and GLA.

[Eddysworld]

another thing to do i just not play against the noobish infantry people, cause thats all they can do. if you dont play them you always win!!!!

[GMP]

Inf gen is unbeatable, don't play them he's overpowered.

[Chubz]

Inf gen is unbeatable, don't play them he's overpowered.

Not necessarily.

[Derek]

Not necessarily.
Actually, pretty much yes, Inf is the most powerful army in the game and can crush almost all other generals without question.

[triumph69420]

1v1 TF my usaf v inf anyone k thx gg? lmfao.

[n3m3sis]

Yes, only 1v1 you can get away with USAF. And only a good player would be smart enough to counter the USAF BO, but none of them are playing Inf :D.

[Deluged]

Yea, the other guy told me that. I never knew that :/. I guess I never bothered to find out because I never needed it.


Good one. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l

[Chubz]

Good one. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l

Agreed. :hyper:

[n3m3sis]

Also, the new Infantry has a Helix with lesser HP and now you have to buy the bunker. So it's the "unstopable" rush just became more stopable.

[Derek]

I heard that the health was not actually reduced

[n3m3sis]

fo' rizzle? :P

I do know them did lie about some minor changes, like the price of Mini-Gunners.

[T47]

Has everyone forgotten about GLA quad cannons? :wtf:
Cheapest AA in the game. Forget dignified strats and quad spam.

[n3m3sis]

Has anybody forgot about the word RUSH in the topic? Or that the most spamable unit for infantry [the AO] has more than enough armor vs bullets? If you start with many Quads, the normal Infantry spammer will own you with his AOs.

PS: Quad Spam vs Inf. LMAO.

[T47]

Has anybody forgot about the word RUSH in the topic? Or that the most spamable unit for infantry [the AO] has more than enough armor vs bullets? If you start with many Quads, the normal Infantry spammer will own you with his AOs.

PS: Quad Spam vs Inf. LMAO.

Yes, and will probably whip my quads like rented mules; but my response was specifically intended to stop a helix rush. For an AO rush I guess the best would be scorpion rockets and toxin. :chin:

[n3m3sis]

Naw, Remember how I said you can defeat Infantry? If you do that exact thing you can beat the Helix Rush. Because the AAs and the RPGs will be enough, and the Red Guards will be in the way of the other units so he would have to manually target each RPG guy. As GLA, Car Bombs are VERY useful. Chinas go Dual WarFac Gatt spam, and GLA makes stingers + Quads. OR, as GLA you can do the early Supply Stash BO into 2 WarFacs and Quad Spam. If the Infantry guy has a Helix that early, thers a good chance he doesn't have a War Factory, so AA only is ok.

Anyway, if I meet an Infantry during quickmatch I just lame like they do. Toxin/Stealth = Technical Rush, gets them WAY before they can get a Helix, and even if they do they got no Infantry to put in it and I have 2 WarFacs. USAF = Quick Strat Center BO, it's the only one that can counter both AOs and Helixes. Nuke/Tank = My other Anit-Infantry BO there, very useful, and the Red Guard Training is a godsend.
READ THE TOPIC BEFORE YOU POST, I ALREADY MENTIONED QUADS.

[Derek]

Yes, and will probably whip my quads like rented mules; but my response was specifically intended to stop a helix rush. For an AO rush I guess the best would be scorpion rockets and toxin. :chin:
From what I understand its actually tech/RPG, basically the same idea as Gatt/TH as other Chinas: Break open the AO with RPGs, then kill the men with techs. But a little mixing and migs on the part of inf. will stop all that. That is why Inf is overpowered vs. just about everyone. Toxin has a greater chance here with toxin units to finish off the inf faster and Toxin RPGs are more effective against Aircraft (they follow the planes to the grave, instead of dying out like other rockets).

The problem is you don't know if they are going Helix or AO/ATC spam. Thats one reason the speed of the Helix rush has been slowed down in the new patch (an upgrade must be purchased). If you see in time that they are using a Helix, immediatly switch to Quad/RPG spam, and build a stinger at your main base (The only use for stingers: Anti Helix/Commanchee). It is probably safest to assume AO spam until you know otherwise. Its easier to switch from Tech/RPG spam to Quad spam then vice-versa.

[omega]

you could just mirror inf gen it's low but i would do.

[n3m3sis]

you could just mirror inf gen it's low but i would do.

Heh, or you get 8+ MDs and LL. GG Helix.

[T47]

How do rock-vees hold up against helixes? They cheap and quick maybe you can have enough by the time the helixes get there.

[Derek]

Gatlix owns rockvees, its faster and has better range. However, TOWvees and LL MDs can work well.

[redazncommieDXP]

In this game, AA rapes any air. Gatt tanks should be able to take good care of helixes, ecm tanks help if they're packing rockets.

Air power is weak, with the exception of alpha auroras. It can support you, but it can't win the game, not even as usaf.

[Derek]

Not necesarily so, Air power is easily shot down by AA, but it can still easily play a primary role in your attack, and its not unusual to win with just an airforce if done properly. Of course, you can't just spam aircraft (well, except for KRs), but used properly they can be just as good as ground units.

[zgtrman97]

OFF topic.. but I HATE AURORAS, they are still overpowered.

[Krazzt]

yes, they are even stronger than before, but now they get iron curtain only in air, so you can damage them when they are starting.

[zgtrman97]

yes, they are even stronger than before, but now they get iron curtain only in air, so you can damage them when they are starting.
Providing you know where they are being built and you have the firepower to do it and there are no static defences....but by the time I here a strategey center defence mode..like BOMBARDMENT I already know what is coming..so until AURORAs get fixed I avoid all USA

[Derek]

Thats rather stupid, Auroras are the least of your worries vs. US :rolleyes: , with the exception of SW gen. And no, Auroras are not stronger, I believe they are actually weaker, it was just one (of many) typos on the list of changes.

[n3m3sis]

If you get your timing right you can Aurora the opening of a GLA Tunnel right after they pop-out some units. All will die :D. I've seen it done before, and now with the larger damage radius it's possible even more. Also, is it 1 Aurora to Hole a Tunnel? Usefull for picking off those loner ones. Though, it's still overpriced and will continue to be used rarely in 1v1s.

[Derek]

Yeah, that works well, especially comboed with the bunker buster stealths. A related strat (known as the "Darkbuster") is to bunker bust a tunnel to pop all the units, then right have commanchess use their rocketbarrage on the opening (You might one to have the commanchees fire first acutally, but you must follow IMMEDIATLY with the stealth bomber), kills the tunnel and all of the units :evil:

And yes, I believe one will hole it, or nearly so, but you need something else to kill the hole.

[n3m3sis]

Hm, I'm too lazy to try this. But can you now teleport vehicles with the Helix 2? If I remember right you couldn't b4.

[The emperor]

OFF topic.. but I HATE AURORAS, they are still overpowered.
I hate 'em too. They'd be OK is u could shoot them down.

BTW, u can transport things with helix 2 (i thibk), but infantry hardly gets any decent vehicles anyway (part from assault troop transports)

[n3m3sis]

Ahem, DRAGONS!!!!????

[The emperor]

oh yeah, i forgot. (dont play as inf gen). DRAGONS ROCK!!!

[omega]

auroras arent overpowered u just made the mistake of letting him get them.

[The emperor]

Well, how are you gonna stop him if he's a tutler?

[Derek]

Well, how are you gonna stop him if he's a tutler?
Let me rephrase that question for you: "Well, how are you NOT going to stop him if he's a turtler?"

[The emperor]

Let me rephrase that question for you: "Well, how are you NOT going to stop him if he's a turtler?"

wot?

[Derek]

wot?
Its easy to beat a turtler

[EliteGi]

Rush him quick enough and he won't have a chance. Look around for some older topics and you'll find plenty of rush strats.

[The emperor]

Its easy to beat a turtler
I was a turtler once. It was about 6 years ago when i knew didly-suat about strat games.

[jarod]

Naw, Remember how I said you can defeat Infantry? If you do that exact thing you can beat the Helix Rush. Because the AAs and the RPGs will be enough, and the Red Guards will be in the way of the other units so he would have to manually target each RPG guy. As GLA, Car Bombs are VERY useful. Chinas go Dual WarFac Gatt spam, and GLA makes stingers + Quads. OR, as GLA you can do the early Supply Stash BO into 2 WarFacs and Quad Spam. If the Infantry guy has a Helix that early, thers a good chance he doesn't have a War Factory, so AA only is ok.

Anyway, if I meet an Infantry during quickmatch I just lame like they do. Toxin/Stealth = Technical Rush, gets them WAY before they can get a Helix, and even if they do they got no Infantry to put in it and I have 2 WarFacs. USAF = Quick Strat Center BO, it's the only one that can counter both AOs and Helixes. Nuke/Tank = My other Anit-Infantry BO there, very useful, and the Red Guard Training is a godsend.

Do you think abbreviations are universal ?
WHAT IS BO ???????? and AO ?????
Helix rush is done in 100 seconds, before the technicals can attacks, simply destroy technicals with helix and rush !
If you build 2 gatt early and infantry rushes with listening outposts, you're simply lost (dead). You never can know where the helix will rush, base, supply or tech buildings, so it he destroy the tunnel network before quads are out, he gets a definitive advantage. Building 2 raptors with 10000 delays considerably developpement and makes USA unable to stop a single listening outpost rush !

Also, the new Infantry has a Helix with lesser HP and now you have to buy the bunker. So it's the "unstopable" rush just became more stopable.

In the helix rush,
IF the infantry evacuate 4 minis and 4 tank hunters in an AF Gen and the USAF Built an airfield and no war factory, the game is over. Later in the game, Infantry builiding 4 or 5 assault crawlers , evacuating the minis and scattering them, The USAF is dead, or his aircrafts are dead !!!!

[Derek]

If the USAF built an AF then they would have a KR about the time Inf got their Helix, the KR would be able to deal a lethal strike to the helix long before the Inf could evacuate it. And anyways, USAF can go single supply, sell CC, rax+WF+AF and get a MDvee and a KR, all on the starting cash. This gets you ready for AO spam AND Helix rush.

[n3m3sis]

If the USAF built an AF then they would have a KR about the time Inf got their Helix, the KR would be able to deal a lethal strike to the helix long before the Inf could evacuate it. And anyways, USAF can go single supply, sell CC, rax+WF+AF and get a MDvee and a KR, all on the starting cash. This gets you ready for AO spam AND Helix rush.

See jarod, I understood all the abreviations that Derek used. Most people can, but some don't that's why I sometimes put the meaning in square brackets []. But if you read my previous posts you would know that. And yes. KR > Helix any day. And you get Technicals WAY b4 he gets the Helix. And if you were slow you can still run over the THs [Tank Hunters] and MGs [Mini-Gunners] that he would load into it. So he will have an empty Helix and would have to w8 until he makes more ppl to put in it. Meanwhile you make tons of AA and it's no longer a rush. Also, making ATCs [Assult Toop Crawlers] is the worst thing you can do vs a moderate-to-pro USAF player. MDvees + the new and improved FBs [Flash-Bang Grenades] will own that up. A much better choice is to go MiGs, but that's another story all together.

You're also forgetting that USAF has the spy drone. So the USAF can see a Helix coming and make a Raptor. I think me and Derek know the KR+MDvee strat so we know USAF > Inf [small map]. But, I don't think you've ever heard of it. Maby that's the misscomunication? I will try to find it on CNCReplays [with credits this time lol].

[Derek]

Yeah, I learned that from Triumph, he made a thread on it about the time I first came here. I have owned so many Inf. n00bs with that, and I don't even do it well :lol: (It requires you to be extremely offensive, where as I usually use it too defensively)

[triumph69420]

I think the writing goes to AGM TBH. The whole towvee movement was early may from people like myself, darky, and true screaming tow tow tow while commoners said no no no. hehe.

[Dr.Thrax]

To Stop The Helix Rush It is Very Easy Try Using an USA Super Weapon General And Build The EMP Patriot Missle System And The Helix Rusht Is Stoppable



Bye From Dr.Thrax

[Zancloufer27]

And I'll go around you Patriot, and kill your power/supplies.

[SgtRicko]

And I'll go around you Patriot, and kill your power/supplies.

Unless you turtle even more, or build lots of power plants!!!:gnarly:

[Me Myself & Pi]

Old topics like this one probably shouldn't be renewed. If you have something more so say about, then just create a new topic.

But since it is renewed, I'd like to comment about defending you base with an EMP turrent. I used to be a fan of SW general & I was rushed by an infantry general in a helix. With my spy satelight, I saw what he was doing & built a turrent. After he got close, he saw. You know what he did? He dropped his infantry out & creamed me.

I guess the best way to hold it off, is to do what he does. If you sells his CC, then sell yours. (Although, I'll never sell my CC unless it's about to be destroyed. I can't stand it without my radar.) But it's only 1,000. Since your not the rusher, I think you can manage without it. But building an air field, helix, & infantry is pretty expensive. If you suspect the enemy using this strategy, this build & air & infantry. You should be able to withstand it if you built them as fast as he built his rush.

[Zancloufer27]

Unless you turtle even more, or build lots of power plants!!!:gnarly:
I'll just kill an EMP pat with Tank Hunters considering all he has is supplies, and a kabillion EMP pats/Power plants.

[drgNz~]

Or, like you said earlier, go around the EMP pat, blow his power + dozers, and wait till he calls you a noob and disconnects.

[Daishi]

Or don't make an inf lix and pack 2 AOs instead. You'll wipe SWG out risk-free.

[selly jr]

helix rushes are stopped easily, superweapon general has emp patriots which disable planes. or you could spam lots of anti air vehicles like the quad cannons and gattling tanks. king raptors work extremely well too as they block any missile attacks.

[Zancloufer27]

SWgen won't spam EMP pats vs infantry general. Inf NEVER goes Helix vs USAF, and vs Gatts/quads, he can jsut bait them, and kill them with AOs