Den Games Network Forums  

Welcome to the Den Games Network Forums forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Welcome to the Den Games Network Forums
Edit Your Avatar
Go Back   Den Games Network Forums > Westwood/EA Games > Red Alert 2 | Yuri's Revenge
Register FAQ Rules Members List Calendar Entertainment Statistics Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Red Alert 2 | Yuri's Revenge This forum is intended for general discussion concerning Red Alert 2 and it's expansion pack Yuri's Revenge.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Yesterday, 01:50 PM   #41
Statalyzer
*The KEENest*
 
Statalyzer's Avatar
Member
Statalyzer has a reputation beyond reputeStatalyzer has a reputation beyond reputeStatalyzer has a reputation beyond reputeStatalyzer has a reputation beyond repute
 
United_States
Join Date: 07 Nov 2003
Age: 24
Posts: 8,115
Style: MODDEN Scheme 1
Rep Power: 181
Send a message via AIM to Statalyzer Send a message via MSN to Statalyzer
Quote:
When a real multi-cell warhead hits, it damages everything inside that cell and should it be a building, the building takes additional damage because the spread is moving outward.
Found this out when a friend and I were using terrorist-IFVs. Whether or not you kill a War Factory with a single one of them depends on whether you aim at the middle of the long side or at a corner cell.

Quote:
In any case, the warhead damage logic and Sonic weapon logic are not broken, and work exactly as intended.
I don't know if they intentionally said "Let's make the dolphin able to damage Naval Yards super-fast by force-firing on the opposite side of the building" or not. I think they did not, and added the Sonic weapon logic so that dolphins could fire across peninsulas or low bridges and damage land units.

But either way, the dolphin inst-kill should have been altered because it throws off naval balance.

Watch out where you step, or we'll be afoot.


I am the polymerized sap of a tall herbaceous plant form and you are composed of an inorganic adhesive. Whatever verbal projectiles you launch in my direction are guaranteed to be reflected away from me, at which point they will reorient themselves onto their original trajectories and adhere to you.
Statalyzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 02:55 PM   #42
truefeel
proud @tankz member
 
truefeel's Avatar
Member
truefeel has a brilliant futuretruefeel has a brilliant futuretruefeel has a brilliant futuretruefeel has a brilliant futuretruefeel has a brilliant futuretruefeel has a brilliant futuretruefeel has a brilliant futuretruefeel has a brilliant futuretruefeel has a brilliant futuretruefeel has a brilliant futuretruefeel has a brilliant futuretruefeel has a brilliant future
 
Belgium
Join Date: 05 Nov 2004
Age: 19
Posts: 3,563
Style: RADEN Scheme 1
Rep Power: 101
Send a message via MSN to truefeel
Quote:
But either way, the dolphin inst-kill should have been altered because it throws off naval balance.
There are so many should-haves, but EA just did not bothered. Xwis can't bring out patches, b/c either EA does not allow or xwis does not have the resources and EA does not want to give those resources.
truefeel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 05:59 PM   #43
Fenring
Count of Tuscany
 
Fenring's Avatar
Member
Fenring has much to be proud ofFenring has much to be proud ofFenring has much to be proud ofFenring has much to be proud ofFenring has much to be proud ofFenring has much to be proud ofFenring has much to be proud ofFenring has much to be proud ofFenring has much to be proud ofFenring has much to be proud ofFenring has much to be proud of
 
United_States
Join Date: 06 Nov 2003
Age: 25
Posts: 3,013
Style: MODDEN Scheme 1
Rep Power: 83
Send a message via AIM to Fenring Send a message via MSN to Fenring Send a message via Skype™ to Fenring
Quote:
Originally Posted by truefeel View Post
Hmm, that would solve alting altogether. Would it have any relevant negative effect when you remove those cell spreads?
Noticeably, yes, there would. A lot of vehicle weapons have some sort of cell spread on them, most <1 cell, but you would see a drop in damage on every vehicle, rendering them weaker than usual. Probably not a good thing. But the spread isn't enough to warrant removal really.

Quote:
I don't believe the effects of it in the form of alting was intended. I mean I'm hell sure of it that nobody normally wants to destroy their own war factory.
That's the thing. Even if you removed the cell spread, the structure would still take damage because that vehicle occupies a cell occupied by a structure. The cell spread is irrelevant at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Statalyzer View Post
I don't know if they intentionally said "Let's make the dolphin able to damage Naval Yards super-fast by force-firing on the opposite side of the building" or not. I think they did not, and added the Sonic weapon logic so that dolphins could fire across peninsulas or low bridges and damage land units.
Bear in mind that this logic was put into place in Tiberian Sun and is not new to Red Alert 2. The graphical drawing changed but the way damage is handled did not change and the reason why it damages the way it does is the continuity of the beam since Disruptors in Tiberian Sun damaged everything in their path, often multiple times per.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truefeel View Post
There are so many should-haves, but EA just did not bothered. Xwis can't bring out patches, b/c either EA does not allow or xwis does not have the resources and EA does not want to give those resources.
Again, I must reiterate that this has nothing do with EA and everything to do with Westwood and the game's damage calculation functions. No INI modification will ever 'fix' Sonic weapons or anything with warheads. There's nothing to fix since it works as intended.

Warning - unpleasant spolier below.

"Now, now. Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything."
CodeSOD:
Code:
if (!this) return false;
Fenring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 08:12 PM   #44
apple23
BookWorm these days...
 
apple23's Avatar
Member
apple23 is a glorious beacon of lightapple23 is a glorious beacon of lightapple23 is a glorious beacon of lightapple23 is a glorious beacon of lightapple23 is a glorious beacon of lightapple23 is a glorious beacon of light
 
United_States
Join Date: 14 Nov 2004
Age: 15
Posts: 1,632
Style: RADEN Scheme 1
Rep Power: 52
Send a message via MSN to apple23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenring View Post
Noticeably, yes, there would. A lot of vehicle weapons have some sort of cell spread on them, most <1 cell, but you would see a drop in damage on every vehicle, rendering them weaker than usual. Probably not a good thing. But the spread isn't enough to warrant removal really.
Actually dropping cellspread would not alter damage vs vehicles one single bit. the vehicle itself, game-logic-wise, occupies the center lepton of the cell, and that center lepton only. The vehicle does not occupy the outer leptons of the cell like a building does (it occupies the entire cell). Thus, wherever on the cell the warhead hits, it takes the damage value of that warhead only once, and it will take the PercentDamageModifier (or whatever the exact flag is, i forgot) value for the cellspread radius for whatever damage it calculated at the exact center of the cell the vehicle occupies. if it's on the move, it does not reside at the center of the cell, but at the center of the vehicle itself.

Quote:
That's the thing. Even if you removed the cell spread, the structure would still take damage because that vehicle occupies a cell occupied by a structure. The cell spread is irrelevant at this point.
yes, that's true. i perhaps worded my sentance wrong and misleaded you/truefeel in to believing thats what i meant, but yes, the cellspread logic has not much bearing here.

Quote:
Bear in mind that this logic was put into place in Tiberian Sun and is not new to Red Alert 2. The graphical drawing changed but the way damage is handled did not change and the reason why it damages the way it does is the continuity of the beam since Disruptors in Tiberian Sun damaged everything in their path, often multiple times per.
the logic is actually completely different. the concept is similar, but the reason the dolphin's weapon is so powerful is because the actual speed of the warhead depends on the distance it must travel. Unlike the TS disruptor beam, which was a steady, constant beam, the dolphin's was something of a projectile. This 'projectile' damages everything it is touching at certain intervals (it damages something like every 1-2 frames). the disruptor did this similarly, but the prime difference was that if a dolphin is standing closer to an object, its projectile moves slower, meaning the beam is on the object for more time, and this can lead to drastically increased damage. The TS disruptor beam touched everything in its path equally, and applied damage equally to all of those things no matter how close or far it was away.

And not to say that the TS sonic logic couldn't have been improved. If they made it only damage each building it touched once, and made it still able to damage units, you would get a very similar effect, but it would be MUCH easier to balance in the long run. That would mean it did a set amount of damage, instead of a damage amount that was basically case-specific. Same thing here with the dolphin sonic logic.

Like I said earlier, my image of the perfect sonic logic is that of RA3's dolphin and CNC3's sonic emitter.

Quote:
Again, I must reiterate that this has nothing do with EA and everything to do with Westwood and the game's damage calculation functions. No INI modification will ever 'fix' Sonic weapons or anything with warheads. There's nothing to fix since it works as intended.
it works "as intended," but they could have improved the logic to serve the same purpose and be yet better balanced.

Sorry my former use of the word "fix" was misleading, but yes, it was never broken, it just needs improvement.

Fleet Commander Worm's fleet report


Captain Obvious says: If you're not going to run your brain, then you shouldn't run your mouth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Statalyzer
"I want to be a father because you can have the crappiest day imaginable, feel totally worthless, and then you come home to someone who thinks you can lift 5,000 pounds, beat up a hundred men at once, sprint all the way around the world in mere seconds, and shoot lightening bolts out your arse."

Last edited by apple23; Yesterday at 08:18 PM..
apple23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AI magnetron attacks anything sauron--the--king Red Alert 2 | Yuri's Revenge Map Editing 6 08-28-2009 05:10 AM
Magnetron firing delay Daishi Red Alert 2 | Yuri's Revenge Modding 8 02-04-2009 12:00 AM
Siege Chopper is such a nuisance Veteranewbie Red Alert 2 | Yuri's Revenge Tactics 33 11-10-2008 01:55 AM
Yuri, In my Humble Ininformed Opinion Zodiac Red Alert 2 | Yuri's Revenge Tactics 71 01-30-2008 10:43 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2008, Den Games Network
[Output: 70.95 Kb. compressed to 67.42 Kb. by saving 3.54 Kb. (4.98%)]