Magnetron

[Statalyzer]

When a real multi-cell warhead hits, it damages everything inside that cell and should it be a building, the building takes additional damage because the spread is moving outward.

Found this out when a friend and I were using terrorist-IFVs. Whether or not you kill a War Factory with a single one of them depends on whether you aim at the middle of the long side or at a corner cell.

In any case, the warhead damage logic and Sonic weapon logic are not broken, and work exactly as intended.

I don't know if they intentionally said "Let's make the dolphin able to damage Naval Yards super-fast by force-firing on the opposite side of the building" or not. I think they did not, and added the Sonic weapon logic so that dolphins could fire across peninsulas or low bridges and damage land units.

But either way, the dolphin inst-kill should have been altered because it throws off naval balance.

[truefeel]

But either way, the dolphin inst-kill should have been altered because it throws off naval balance.

There are so many should-haves, but EA just did not bothered. Xwis can't bring out patches, b/c either EA does not allow or xwis does not have the resources and EA does not want to give those resources.

[Fenring]

Originally Posted by truefeel

Hmm, that would solve alting altogether. Would it have any relevant negative effect when you remove those cell spreads?

Noticeably, yes, there would. A lot of vehicle weapons have some sort of cell spread on them, most <1 cell, but you would see a drop in damage on every vehicle, rendering them weaker than usual. Probably not a good thing. But the spread isn't enough to warrant removal really.

I don't believe the effects of it in the form of alting was intended. I mean I'm hell sure of it that nobody normally wants to destroy their own war factory.

That's the thing. Even if you removed the cell spread, the structure would still take damage because that vehicle occupies a cell occupied by a structure. The cell spread is irrelevant at this point.

Originally Posted by Statalyzer

I don't know if they intentionally said "Let's make the dolphin able to damage Naval Yards super-fast by force-firing on the opposite side of the building" or not. I think they did not, and added the Sonic weapon logic so that dolphins could fire across peninsulas or low bridges and damage land units.

Bear in mind that this logic was put into place in Tiberian Sun and is not new to Red Alert 2. The graphical drawing changed but the way damage is handled did not change and the reason why it damages the way it does is the continuity of the beam since Disruptors in Tiberian Sun damaged everything in their path, often multiple times per.

Originally Posted by truefeel

There are so many should-haves, but EA just did not bothered. Xwis can't bring out patches, b/c either EA does not allow or xwis does not have the resources and EA does not want to give those resources.

Again, I must reiterate that this has nothing do with EA and everything to do with Westwood and the game's damage calculation functions. No INI modification will ever 'fix' Sonic weapons or anything with warheads. There's nothing to fix since it works as intended.

[apple23]

Originally Posted by Fenring

Noticeably, yes, there would. A lot of vehicle weapons have some sort of cell spread on them, most <1 cell, but you would see a drop in damage on every vehicle, rendering them weaker than usual. Probably not a good thing. But the spread isn't enough to warrant removal really.

Actually dropping cellspread would not alter damage vs vehicles one single bit. the vehicle itself, game-logic-wise, occupies the center lepton of the cell, and that center lepton only. The vehicle does not occupy the outer leptons of the cell like a building does (it occupies the entire cell). Thus, wherever on the cell the warhead hits, it takes the damage value of that warhead only once, and it will take the PercentDamageModifier (or whatever the exact flag is, i forgot) value for the cellspread radius for whatever damage it calculated at the exact center of the cell the vehicle occupies. if it's on the move, it does not reside at the center of the cell, but at the center of the vehicle itself.

That's the thing. Even if you removed the cell spread, the structure would still take damage because that vehicle occupies a cell occupied by a structure. The cell spread is irrelevant at this point.

yes, that's true. i perhaps worded my sentance wrong and misleaded you/truefeel in to believing thats what i meant, but yes, the cellspread logic has not much bearing here.

Bear in mind that this logic was put into place in Tiberian Sun and is not new to Red Alert 2. The graphical drawing changed but the way damage is handled did not change and the reason why it damages the way it does is the continuity of the beam since Disruptors in Tiberian Sun damaged everything in their path, often multiple times per.

the logic is actually completely different. the concept is similar, but the reason the dolphin's weapon is so powerful is because the actual speed of the warhead depends on the distance it must travel. Unlike the TS disruptor beam, which was a steady, constant beam, the dolphin's was something of a projectile. This 'projectile' damages everything it is touching at certain intervals (it damages something like every 1-2 frames). the disruptor did this similarly, but the prime difference was that if a dolphin is standing closer to an object, its projectile moves slower, meaning the beam is on the object for more time, and this can lead to drastically increased damage. The TS disruptor beam touched everything in its path equally, and applied damage equally to all of those things no matter how close or far it was away.

And not to say that the TS sonic logic couldn't have been improved. If they made it only damage each building it touched once, and made it still able to damage units, you would get a very similar effect, but it would be MUCH easier to balance in the long run. That would mean it did a set amount of damage, instead of a damage amount that was basically case-specific. Same thing here with the dolphin sonic logic.

Like I said earlier, my image of the perfect sonic logic is that of RA3's dolphin and CNC3's sonic emitter.

Again, I must reiterate that this has nothing do with EA and everything to do with Westwood and the game's damage calculation functions. No INI modification will ever 'fix' Sonic weapons or anything with warheads. There's nothing to fix since it works as intended.

it works "as intended," but they could have improved the logic to serve the same purpose and be yet better balanced.

Sorry my former use of the word "fix" was misleading, but yes, it was never broken, it just needs improvement.